Clay Farm, Leopardstown, Dublin 18

Chr1st0pher! · 06-11-2020 4:02am

Hi guys, we are about to sign for a 4 bed on Clay farm drive. I’m wondering if anyone else who is living there already or signed a contract can clarify something. Our solicitor has many queries regarding the contracts that were sent out. Did anyone else run into any problems and lose their 10% deposit? Obviously, this is a HUGE risk. Thanks.

Kaede · 06-11-2020 10:49am

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

Hi guys, we are about to sign for a 4 bed on Clay farm drive. I’m wondering if anyone else who is living there already or signed a contract can clarify something. Our solicitor has many queries regarding the contracts that were sent out. Did anyone else run into any problems and lose their 10% deposit? Obviously, this is a HUGE risk. Thanks.

Hi Chr1st0pher,

if I'm not mistaken, the booking deposit should be refundable up until you sign the contract.

As for the contract queries, my solicitor did have queries too but the replies she got were always in the lines of: the contract is final and cannot be changed.

In my case, my solicitor was mainly concerned about the absence of the loan funds clause:
If, for any reason, after you sign the contract, you don't get your mortgage funds (you loose your job, or the bank withdraws from the offer, or really any event that let's you loose your mortgage approval), you are still obliged to close the sale and fulfil the contract.

Something for you to keep in mind if you are buying your house with the help of a mortgage.

I hope this post helps you a bit with your house buying process!

Chr1st0pher! · 06-11-2020 11:04am

Thank you for this. Yes the loan clause is the one that is concerning me. Although there is no reason for us to not get our funds on completion, we have a house to sell and if something happens with that then we are at risk. Are you living there now? I’m assuming nobody has lost their 10% to date..I just think it’s very unreasonable to lose such a large amount of money based on something that is out of their control. I’m going to have to gamble on it!

Graham · 06-11-2020 11:17am

Have you tried getting your solicitor to push for a subject to funding/finance clause.

I don't know about this specific development but others have successfully pushed for the clause to be added in new-build contracts.

Chr1st0pher! · 06-11-2020 11:48am

Yes absolutely. We’ve tried our best and they are very much unconditional contracts. I doubt anyone has managed to persuade them to change it.

Kaede · 06-11-2020 12:29pm

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

Yes absolutely. We’ve tried our best and they are very much unconditional contracts. I doubt anyone has managed to persuade them to change it.

Unfortunately this seems to be the case,
my solicitor tried multiple times to add this clause.
She told me it is common sense to add this and the Law society (or whatever is called) already recommended all solicitors to accept this clause, but it seems they simply won't add it for some reason. The contract seems pretty much impossible to change

Graham · 06-11-2020 12:30pm

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

Yes absolutely. We’ve tried our best and they are very much unconditional contracts. I doubt anyone has managed to persuade them to change it.

How long before the house you're buying is predicted to be ready?

Chr1st0pher! · 06-11-2020 12:44pm

Graham wrote: »

How long before the house you're buying is predicted to be ready?

Ok well it’s good to know that it’s standard procedure for everyone because it was starting to feel a bit dodgy-you know the way you hear stories about these new developments crashing and buyers losing their deposit.

We got a cancellation in phase 2 and initially it was due to be ready in December but they are now saying it is looking like after Christmas because of when the banks stop releasing funds before the holidays. What is your situation? Are you also waiting to move in?

Graham · 06-11-2020 12:51pm

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

Ok well it’s good to know that it’s standard procedure for everyone because it was starting to feel a bit dodgy-you know the way you hear stories about these new developments crashing and buyers losing their deposit.

We got a cancellation in phase 2 and initially it was due to be ready in December but they are now saying it is looking like after Christmas because of when the banks stop releasing funds before the holidays. What is your situation? Are you also waiting to move in?

I'm not buying.

Trying to ascertain how much risk you'd be at. If you'd said 12 months time, obviously a lot more can change in 12 months than 2 months.

Only you can really ascertain the risks associated with getting your mortgage and the chances of something going wrong with your house sale.

I wouldn't say it's standard procedure. Probably more accurate to say it has been standard for some developers recently.

Newhomebuyer · 07-11-2020 12:14pm

Our solicitors advised that they do not accept many changes.

JDD · 09-11-2020 4:30pm

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

Ok well it’s good to know that it’s standard procedure for everyone because it was starting to feel a bit dodgy-you know the way you hear stories about these new developments crashing and buyers losing their deposit.

We got a cancellation in phase 2 and initially it was due to be ready in December but they are now saying it is looking like after Christmas because of when the banks stop releasing funds before the holidays. What is your situation? Are you also waiting to move in?

We moved in in 2018 and we couldn't get the "subject to funding" clause inserted in our contracts either. I guess Park Developments got stung at the start of the recession with buyers losing their mortgage approval and Park having to refund deposits. They seem very rigid about not allowing it in these contracts.

I wasn't so stressed about my circumstances changing during the five months between signing the contracts and waiting to drawdown the mortgage funds - both myself and my husband are in really secure jobs. But I was worried about Park not having the house ready within the six months our Letter of Offer lasted for, and our bank suddenly changing their lending criteria. That part I had literally no control over, and would have been raging if I had lost €40k due to Park's lack of on time delivery.

But Park seem to be pretty aware of this, and seem to deliver the houses pretty much to date. And would they REALLY not refund you the deposit if your circumstances changed? There's no shortage of buyers and they'd probably (certainly if it was a three bed) sell your close to completed house straight away to someone else. So while they are not contractually obliged to give you the deposit back, I wonder if it would be a good look for them to refuse you. If there was still good interest from buyers, and with a number of other houses still to be built, I doubt they'd want a disgruntled buyer on Joe Duffy calling them out. That would not be good advertising for them.

c00114110 · 09-11-2020 5:25pm

Does anyone get subject to funding clause inserted to their contract with Park?

Chr1st0pher! · 09-11-2020 5:33pm

JDD wrote: »

We moved in in 2018 and we couldn't get the "subject to funding" clause inserted in our contracts either. I guess Park Developments got stung at the start of the recession with buyers losing their mortgage approval and Park having to refund deposits. They seem very rigid about not allowing it in these contracts.

I wasn't so stressed about my circumstances changing during the five months between signing the contracts and waiting to drawdown the mortgage funds - both myself and my husband are in really secure jobs. But I was worried about Park not having the house ready within the six months our Letter of Offer lasted for, and our bank suddenly changing their lending criteria. That part I had literally no control over, and would have been raging if I had lost €40k due to Park's lack of on time delivery.

But Park seem to be pretty aware of this, and seem to deliver the houses pretty much to date. And would they REALLY not refund you the deposit if your circumstances changed? There's no shortage of buyers and they'd probably (certainly if it was a three bed) sell your close to completed house straight away to someone else. So while they are not contractually obliged to give you the deposit back, I wonder if it would be a good look for them to refuse you. If there was still good interest from buyers, and with a number of other houses still to be built, I doubt they'd want a disgruntled buyer on Joe Duffy calling them out. That would not be good advertising for them.

I absolutely agree. I wonder would they actually keep it! And they wouldn’t have any problem getting someone else considering the demand. And that’s good to know that they are aware of the deadline-I’ve heard this before. Thank you, that’s very useful.

Chr1st0pher! · 09-11-2020 5:33pm

c00114110 wrote: »

Does anyone get subject to funding clause inserted to their contract with Park?

No, it’s strictly unconditional.

c00114110 · 09-11-2020 5:33pm

JDD wrote: »

Okay, this is the process for new builds.

You go to the bank looking for a mortgage. You submit a few initial documents and they will give you an "Approval In Principal" letter. This just enables you to start house hunting. The AIP letter isn't binding on the bank, it just gives you a ballpark for the amount you will get approved for once you have submitted all your documentation.

You decide on Clay Farm. The launch day is a couple of months away. This is when you get your *ss in gear to get your "Letter of Offer" from your chosen bank. Give yourself a bit of time for this, because they ask for a LOT of documents. You get your Letter of Offer, which is valid for six months (AIB do 12 months I think). Be careful - this doesn't mean you can now change jobs or take out a loan. The offer is only valid as long as nothing changes in your circumstances during those 6 months - and they will look for some updated documentation (payslips etc) just before drawdown.

You attend on the launch day, pick you house, and put down a "booking deposit" of €5k-€10k. This is fully refundable up to the day you sign your contracts.

On the launch day, you give Savills the name and address of your solicitors. The contracts are posted out to your solicitors pretty much the next day. Savills don't hang about.

Your solicitors try to amend the pro forma contract sent out. To be honest, unless there are factual mistakes in the contract, it's difficult to get Matheson (Park's solicitors) to change anything.

Once approximately 28 days are up you return the contracts along with the remainder of the 10% deposit (deposit - booking deposit). You are then locked in. It will take anything from three to five months for the house to be completed. Once it is, you contact your Bank, they send out a valuer to make sure it's finished and worth the mortgage, and then you drawdown the full amount of the mortgage and send it on to Park Developments. You get your keys on the same day.

One big issue, is that there is no safety net clause in the pro forma contract that covers you if you have a pay cut or something else happens and the bank decide that you no longer are approved for the full amount of the mortgage. Another risk is that it takes more than six months to finish your house, your letter of offer expires, and you have to apply all over again for a new mortgage. The bank's lending criteria may have changed in the meantime and there's no guarantee that you'd get the same level of approval.

Park are aware of this, and so far they have made sure that every house is ready for closing well in advance of the six month deadline from putting down the booking deposit. It's up to you to make sure nothing changes in your financial status for those 3-5 months. It's a risk.

Perhaps some buyers were able to get that clause into the contract, but we weren't. I don't know if Park would be more amenable to it now, given the precarious nature of the economy and people's employment, but I'd nearly say that unless you are in the public service or in a REALLY secure job, I would be making every effort to get that clause into the contract - and it may be worth giving up the white goods so that you can try and negotiate it further. Nobody wants to be left in a situation where you have paid €40,000 deposit, got a paycut and then can't drawdown the mortgage. You can't get that €40,000 back.

As the step you list here, does buyer get choice to do snag list?

clayfarm1234 · 09-11-2020 8:58pm

Did anyone buy an apartment in Beech Hall? When are the keys scheduled to be handed over?

Chr1st0pher! · 09-11-2020 9:00pm

c00114110 wrote: »

As the step you list here, does buyer get choice to do snag list?

No. Snagging happens for 3-4 weeks after contracts are signed provided house is ready.

clayfarm1234 · 09-11-2020 9:08pm

Another question - can I buy an apartment/home in Clayfarm by paying full 10% deposit from my own pocket, and claim for HTB of 30K next year?

I have been working for 2 years in Ireland, and have 20K HTB approved. In Jan/Feb, I will have HTB of EUR 30K - so can I pay full 10% deposit now..sign the contract...but complete the sale next year ?

Chr1st0pher! · 09-11-2020 9:45pm

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

Another question - can I buy an apartment/home in Clayfarm by paying full 10% deposit from my own pocket, and claim for HTB of 30K next year?

I have been working for 2 years in Ireland, and have 20K HTB approved. In Jan/Feb, I will have HTB of EUR 30K - so can I pay full 10% deposit now..sign the contract...but complete the sale next year ?

Not sure. I think the idea of HTB is that you can’t afford the deposit but not completely sure.

JDD · 10-11-2020 11:09am

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

Another question - can I buy an apartment/home in Clayfarm by paying full 10% deposit from my own pocket, and claim for HTB of 30K next year?

I have been working for 2 years in Ireland, and have 20K HTB approved. In Jan/Feb, I will have HTB of EUR 30K - so can I pay full 10% deposit now..sign the contract...but complete the sale next year ?

You'd be better posting that on the HTB megathread. There's peeps with excellent knowledge of the scheme on there.

JDD · 10-11-2020 11:11am

Chr1st0pher! wrote: »

No. Snagging happens for 3-4 weeks after contracts are signed provided house is ready.

Correct. Snagging doesn't happen until the house is pretty much ready to move into, and that - at least for the houses - is well after contract stage. We found Park pretty good to deal with on the snagging.

Vraj009 · 10-11-2020 6:46pm

I am assuming you havent yet booked. Assuming next launch is in mid December, it would be end of December by the time contracts are issued and you will have 28 days from contract date. Ideally, you can file your tax return by mid of January and that will allow you to make new HTB application with higher amount. In nutshell, i dont see why this should be an issue.

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

Another question - can I buy an apartment/home in Clayfarm by paying full 10% deposit from my own pocket, and claim for HTB of 30K next year?

I have been working for 2 years in Ireland, and have 20K HTB approved. In Jan/Feb, I will have HTB of EUR 30K - so can I pay full 10% deposit now..sign the contract...but complete the sale next year ?

c00114110 · 12-11-2020 8:36am

Would anyone know is there an existing Clay Farm resident or potential resident community?

JDD · 12-11-2020 1:26pm

c00114110 wrote: »

Would anyone know is there an existing Clay Farm resident or potential resident community?

There's a couple of facebook pages, for house residents from Phase 1 and there's a different one for apartment residents (which I think is open to house residents, including those from Phase 2). The Phase 1 house residents page is mainly just technical questions on the house structure, heating, lighting, plumbing etc.

It'd be nice if there was an open "Clay Farm Life" page on facebook but I'd be too lazy to start one as it would involve modding it - and I just don't have the patience for that!

decorfali9 · 12-11-2020 6:39pm

Hi all. We have a deposit on a Fern, from the recent release this past Oct. Our solicitor has pointed out that the contract vaguely states that in modern timber frame constructions the roof trusses may not be suitable for an attic conversion. I haven't yet read the contract, but it seems this is mentioned as in a very vague disclaimer-type way. Chatting to our solicitor they tell us that in some cases they may use a single prefab structure for the roof, meaning that cutting thru the trusses may not be possible, or at the very least be very expensive.

Savills tell me that others in the development have converted their attics. Anyone here knows more about this? Ideally I'd like to know ballpark how much this may be?

clayfarm1234 · 12-11-2020 7:20pm

JDD wrote: »

Oh, that is a difficult one.

On balance, I'd take the risk and wait until you had the full HTB. Apartments don't sell as quickly as the houses do, but I suppose it all depends on what supply of apartments will be built in Phase 2, as your safety net. As far as I'm aware, all the East village apartments have been sold to a professional landlord, and some at least of the West Village apartments have been allocated for social housing. So you'd be left with what has yet to be sold in Phase 1, and I'm not sure whether there's a bottleneck of demand for those, or whether they're just slowly and steadily selling.

Actually, there are more apartments being built in Phase 1, closer to the Gallops Luas stop? Presumably they would go on sale at some point in the next few months. I'd hold out for those (assuming they won't increase in price), and wait for your full HTB.

How is the social housing allotment done? Is it some number of apartments/houses in each building/estate? For eg. Whitebeam hall may have 20 apartment - would 10%of them go to Social Housing?

JDD · 13-11-2020 10:47am

decorfali9 wrote: »

Hi all. We have a deposit on a Fern, from the recent release this past Oct. Our solicitor has pointed out that the contract vaguely states that in modern timber frame constructions the roof trusses may not be suitable for an attic conversion. I haven't yet read the contract, but it seems this is mentioned as in a very vague disclaimer-type way. Chatting to our solicitor they tell us that in some cases they may use a single prefab structure for the roof, meaning that cutting thru the trusses may not be possible, or at the very least be very expensive.

Savills tell me that others in the development have converted their attics. Anyone here knows more about this? Ideally I'd like to know ballpark how much this may be?

I'm not entirely sure about this. A number of people got the Park builders to convert the attic as a nixer just before they moved in. Then I think Park put a stop to that.

As far as I'm aware, you need a qualified structural engineer to review the attic and the trusses to make sure that they can take the extra weight of new walls. I can guarantee the Park lads didn't get a structural engineer in, so I'd be a bit worried whether those attic conversions would make the house hard to sell, let alone whether they'd do damage to the house.

I'm not sure if anyone has got a structural engineer in and then gone ahead and got the attic conversion on the estate, but I'll check.

JDD · 13-11-2020 11:29am

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

How is the social housing allotment done? Is it some number of apartments/houses in each building/estate? For eg. Whitebeam hall may have 20 apartment - would 10%of them go to Social Housing?

It's just a basic 10% of the "units". Every house and apartment is included as a unit, so if they're building 600 houses and apartments in Phase 2, 60 have to be allocated as social housing. Park (and I presume all developers) allocate apartments, not houses, as that maximises their profits. What they seem to have done so far is allocate one/two whole apartment blocks as social housing, rather than sprinkle the allocation across different blocks.

I can't remember where I read it, probably in one of the planning applications, but I seem to remember that the social housing allocation in Phase 2 was to be in the West Village apartments.

JDD · 13-11-2020 2:46pm

decorfali9 - just to say, I've checked on our facebook group and attic conversions are definitely possible, in Ferns and Bilberry's anyway. I think there might be an issue with Elders, because of the "roof pitch" but otherwise lots of people on the estate got their attics converted with a sign off from a structural engineer.

decorfali9 · 13-11-2020 2:58pm

JDD wrote: »

decorfali9 - just to say, I've checked on our facebook group and attic conversions are definitely possible, in Ferns and Bilberry's anyway. I think there might be an issue with Elders, because of the "roof pitch" but otherwise lots of people on the estate got their attics converted with a sign off from a structural engineer.

Thanks a lot for the info!

Leonardohann · 16-11-2020 11:07am

Found a facebook group for Clay Farm Phase II Buyers and residents

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2447702422197592/

Newhomebuyer · 16-11-2020 4:19pm

Anybody signed contracts for this phase?

clayfarm1234 · 16-11-2020 7:10pm

Newhomebuyer wrote: »

Anybody signed contracts for this phase?

apartments or houses?

clayfarm1234 · 16-11-2020 10:57pm

Anyone signed contracts in Beech Hall apartments? Any idea of expected move in date?

Newhomebuyer · 17-11-2020 11:58am

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

apartments or houses?

Houses.

commanjoe · 18-11-2020 2:01pm

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

How is the social housing allotment done? Is it some number of apartments/houses in each building/estate? For eg. Whitebeam hall may have 20 apartment - would 10%of them go to Social Housing?

If you look up the planning for Phase 2 on the DLRCOCO website they have a map where they show which units will be social housing. It looks like there are a few houses and then units around the village centre. Basically it's all in once area and there is no social up towards Cruagh Wood.

Newhomebuyer · 19-11-2020 6:45am

commanjoe wrote: »

If you look up the planning for Phase 2 on the DLRCOCO website they have a map where they show which units will be social housing. It looks like there are a few houses and then units around the village centre. Basically it's all in once area and there is no social up towards Cruagh Wood.

Can you send the link.

decorfali9 · 20-11-2020 1:12pm

commanjoe wrote: »

If you look up the planning for Phase 2 on the DLRCOCO website they have a map where they show which units will be social housing. It looks like there are a few houses and then units around the village centre. Basically it's all in once area and there is no social up towards Cruagh Wood.

I'd appreciate a link too. There are a few planning applications for Clay Farm and loads of documents in them. I haven't managed to find it.

commanjoe · 23-11-2020 1:39am

decorfali9 wrote: »

I'd appreciate a link too. There are a few planning applications for Clay Farm and loads of documents in them. I haven't managed to find it.

You will find it here https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/85385

Two of the files here are called part v permitted and Part V proposed. The social housing units are highlighted.

decorfali9 · 23-11-2020 11:10am

commanjoe wrote: »

You will find it here https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/85385

Two of the files here are called part v permitted and Part V proposed. The social housing units are highlighted.

Thanks!

Vraj009 · 23-11-2020 4:15pm

Do you know which one is the final one ? (Permitted or proposed)

commanjoe wrote: »

You will find it here https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/85385

Two of the files here are called part v permitted and Part V proposed. The social housing units are highlighted.

Newhomebuyer · 07-12-2020 5:58pm

Can anybody please help.

Did anyone hire any interior decorator. If so would appreciate if anyone can give me names.

Only 2 light points for the entire living room sounds a bit less. Are they sufficient? What lights are recommended?

Re the flooring , which one is the best with 2 young kids?

Lastly, any recommendations for funiture? Beds? Mattresses etc.

Thanks in advance. Please provide responses

the_mountain · 07-12-2020 8:21pm

JDD wrote: »

decorfali9 - just to say, I've checked on our facebook group and attic conversions are definitely possible, in Ferns and Bilberry's anyway. I think there might be an issue with Elders, because of the "roof pitch" but otherwise lots of people on the estate got their attics converted with a sign off from a structural engineer.

Hey JDD ,i was speaking to the slaes Agent and he mentioned some elders have converted thier attick already , have you seen any of these ?

the_mountain · 07-12-2020 8:23pm

commanjoe wrote: »

You will find it here

Two of the files here are called part v permitted and Part V proposed. The social housing units are highlighted.

thanks for the link
are these the ones referred to as Neighborhood center ?

twoeyes · 07-12-2020 10:41pm

Can someone please clarify if it is common for contract to include conditions like

"House or part can not be used to trade or run business from and not to permit to reside in more than house is designed to accommodate and shall use it for the purpose of single private or professional residence"

We only want to use it as our primary residence but were wondering if such clauses can cause problem while selling in future. I guess the clause prevents subletting. We are going to take it up with our solicitor as well but have heard that the builder solicitor is usually against the changes. We do not mind signing if this is the standard practice. Thanks!

JDD · 08-12-2020 11:21am

twoeyes wrote: »

Can someone please clarify if it is common for contract to include conditions like

"House or part can not be used to trade or run business from and not to permit to reside in more than house is designed to accommodate and shall use it for the purpose of single private or professional residence"

We only want to use it as our primary residence but were wondering if such clauses can cause problem while selling in future. I guess the clause prevents subletting. We are going to take it up with our solicitor as well but have heard that the builder solicitor is usually against the changes. We do not mind signing if this is the standard practice. Thanks!

You need to get planning permission to change the use of the house for a business - say a doctors surgery or something. That's why that clause is there I expect - the planning granted for building the house is for a private residence only.

Plus there are building laws to say you must have x amount of square footage per person in a house/apartment. I assume they turn a blind eye if you have six children or something, but it means you can't let the house out to 20 students, otherwise you are in breach of your contract.

I don't think it would cause issues when you are selling. You could keep those clauses out of whatever contract you enter into with your buyer. But the fact remains that the new owner would be in breach of planning laws if they put in a shop, or if they let out the house to more people than it is designed to occupy.

Newhomebuyer - can't help you on the interior designer front. All we did was get floors put in and I honestly can't remember the guys name. He did the showhouse floors though. All our furniture is Ikea. Can't have nice things when our kids will only wreck them :-)

clayfarm1234 · 08-12-2020 12:13pm

Quick question - is the 28 days clause for signing the contracts in order to avail white goods - more around we signing the contracts, or Matheson receiving signed contracts within 28 days?

JDD · 08-12-2020 1:04pm

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

Quick question - is the 28 days clause for signing the contracts in order to avail white goods - more around we signing the contracts, or Matheson receiving signed contracts within 28 days?

Matheson receiving the contracts unfortunately. I work across the road from their offices, and had to run across and drop them to the front desk at 4pm on the deadline day (which was actually in our case about day 32 because of various delays on their part and a couple of bank holidays).

clayfarm1234 · 09-12-2020 6:54pm

Hi All - any recommendations for a good snagger? Going for snagging in early Jan - hence need few options to shortlist from...

c00114110 · 16-12-2020 3:12pm

In relate to clay farm phase 2, it doesn't allow for any extension or alteration without planning permission even ordinarily be except.

Would everyone know about it?

Clay Farm, Leopardstown, Dublin 18

Comments