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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

12467…201

Comments

  • #152
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The foreign operations of Quds and IRGC have been well known in public domain circles for many years. I'm not responsible if you don't keep up with that aspect of current events. . It's the cost of doing business. We kill their soldiers, they kill ours. Business as normal. If the Soviets killed a CIA commander in Afghanistan in company with the Mujahadeen, there wouldn't have been a particular outcry. After all, was there proof there was ever a CIA operative in Afghanistan in the mid-1980s? Do you doubt that there was such a person?

    Exactly - So why take the action now and not before or later??

    The concern is less about the action and more about the nature of the attack and the timing.

    Might it have something to do with this?
    President Donald Trump told associates that he assassinated Iran's top military leader last week in part to appease Republican senators who will play a crucial role in his Senate impeachment trial, The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday.

    What's fairly obvious is that Trump (or one of his lackeys) asked the question "Who's a good target we can take out that will distract everyone from Impeachment and Boltons offer to testify?"

    Solemani was on the top of lots of peoples lists for years of actions , but the obfuscation and changing stories over the "imminent threat" plot line just re-enforce the perception that this was done purely to distract the world.


  • #153
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,203 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    I see Iran has publicly accepted responsibility for the downed plane. Good to see, such a sad loss of life and a big own goal for Iran here in an otherwise very well played response.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #154
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,122 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1215787175888945152?s=19

    Matt Gaetz, who I despise incidentally, gets a shed load of abuse for taking the traditional conservative line.

    He just got a taste of the realisation that it's no longer the Republican party- its the party of Trump.


  • #155
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,203 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Very surprised he was urging people to go against trump. He is one of the grade A boot lickers

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #156
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1215998705557475328

    Anyone want to have a go at explaining how the terms “radical” and “do nothing” make sense together ?


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  • #157
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I love the way he talks about worst in history. He thinks that guy is worst terrorist in history? Or Pelosi is worst speaker?

    I would love him to give a run down of his rankings and the measurement system he used.


  • #158
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    smurgen wrote: »
    The burden of proof rests upon those making accusations.

    There's about 14 years of combat activities in Iraq, and more lately Afghanistan to demonstrate his efforts to direct military efforts against the US forces. That's to say nothing of Yemen, Syria or Lebanon. He was a General in charge of Iran's IRGC, not some suit wearing minister.


  • #159
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I love the way he talks about worst in history. He thinks that guy is worst terrorist in history? Or Pelosi is worst speaker?

    I would love him to give a run down of his rankings and the measurement system he used.

    He has a point. Theres a good chance he will end up in jail as a result of Pelosi's determined efforts, so from his perspective, she really is the worst! Remember - it's all projection with Trump, he's scared shirtless of her.


  • #160
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    There's about 14 years of combat activities in Iraq, and more lately Afghanistan to demonstrate his efforts to direct military efforts against the US forces. That's to say nothing of Yemen, Syria or Lebanon. He was a General in charge of Iran's IRGC, not some suit wearing minister.

    I mean you have the same for the US? (Well a bit longer but anyway).

    I want proof of the imminent threat. I was told there was an imminent threat (that apparently no one else had the plans to and can't go ahead now). No argued that Saddam was a despot. However we were lied to about the WMDs. Now we are being lied to about this threat (which we know was imminent but we also don't know when).

    In other news government hand outs increase further with Trump as billions of social aid has been promised to big farming corporations. Wonder why Republicans never care about these government hand outs...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1215480885165875200


  • #161
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,203 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    It's funny in a tragic way how the US can never see how much worse they make situations. Even just taking Iran, who even remembers or references that they were a democracy about 70 years ago before the CIA took out their democratically elected prime minister to install their own dictator?

    Then after the people finally had enough of the Shah after about 25 years or so and he had plundered the treasury and deposited god knows how many millions, billions probably in the US coffers they took getting their guy thrown out on his ass and supplied weapons both conventional and chemical to Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and start the Iran Iraq war.

    Who is a terrorist often depends on your point of view I suppose.

    TL Dr I am sure that the US will continue to make things worse in the region before it gets better...trump or no trump.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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  • #162
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭eire4


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1215787175888945152?s=19

    Matt Gaetz, who I despise incidentally, gets a shed load of abuse for taking the traditional conservative line.

    He just got a taste of the realisation that it's no longer the Republican party- its the party of Trump.

    I am going to disagree slightly although I totally get where your coming from. But for me this is the Republican Party. If they want a different party that can stand up and say so. But the reality is this is where the Republican Party are today especially economically as they have been lurching further and further to the right especially since Regan started really pushing their Freedmanite disaster capitalism economics. It is just the current head of the party is very unpalatable for a taste test so to speak but he is very much in line with who the Republican Party are and have been economically and even when it comes to the fear and the hate he spews forth.


  • #163
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    StringerBell wrote: »
    It's funny in a tragic way how the US can never see how much worse they make situations. Even just taking Iran, who even remembers or references that they were a democracy about 70 years ago before the CIA took out their democratically elected prime minister to install their own dictator?

    Then after the people finally had enough of the Shah after about 25 years or so and he had plundered the treasury and deposited god knows how many millions, billions probably in the US coffers they took getting their guy thrown out on his ass and supplied weapons both conventional and chemical to Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and start the Iran Iraq war.

    Who is a terrorist often depends on your point of view I suppose.

    TL Dr I am sure that the US will continue to make things worse in the region before it gets better...trump or no trump.

    They're more afraid of a stable united middle east than the current version. That's why they hate Iran. There is nothing they can blame them for that their allies are not equally guilty of. This joke of an attempt to manufacture an excuse for the recent assissanation is pretty lame.

    He was killed because Iran don't play ball. If you bow down before the US, you can commit an atrocities you like.


  • #164
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1215998705557475328

    Anyone want to have a go at explaining how the terms “radical” and “do nothing” make sense together ?

    Its been said often but its so very true, the yanks have some gall pointing an accusatory finger at anyone when it comes to terrorism. They are the biggest example of state sponsored terrorists the world has ever seen and its well documented if you study the history of the CIA even at the most cursory of levels.

    There is nowhere on the planet where the Americans have involved themselves that has yielded a positive outcome other than that during the second world war. Sadly it was their role in WII that has emboldened as the guardians of the free world. Its a total falesy. All of America's interventions are purely strategic devoid totally of any humanitarianism.

    Look for example at The whitehouse's relationship with the Saudis who have obliterated Yemen in recent years resulting in genocide and famine. What has Trump done to counter this ? Absolutely nothing. MBS rules saudi with an iron fist , thinking nothing of bumping off dissenters under the noses of the world safe in the knowledge the yanks will do nothing . Its revolting but what do you expect from a horse only a kick ?

    Unfortunately as vile as Trump is, he is a master communicator, speaking directly to his base and I believe he will be elected again and this inspite of the fact that Trump has built only 72 miles of his border wall ... and has done nothing to replace obamacare


  • #165
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭eire4


    StringerBell wrote: »
    It's funny in a tragic way how the US can never see how much worse they make situations. Even just taking Iran, who even remembers or references that they were a democracy about 70 years ago before the CIA took out their democratically elected prime minister to install their own dictator?

    Then after the people finally had enough of the Shah after about 25 years or so and he had plundered the treasury and deposited god knows how many millions, billions probably in the US coffers they took getting their guy thrown out on his ass and supplied weapons both conventional and chemical to Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and start the Iran Iraq war.

    Who is a terrorist often depends on your point of view I suppose.

    TL Dr I am sure that the US will continue to make things worse in the region before it gets better...trump or no trump.


    Absolutely spot on with this post. I could not agree more. The key is what you say at the end this is not about who is in power in the US right now although he has taken it up a notch but the fact is both Democratic and Republican administrations consistently have bullied threatened governments even indirectly murdered the leaders until said countries behave how they want them to behave which typically is in a far right economic disaster capitalist fashion to the benefit of local elite and of course major US corporations and to the detriment of the vast majority of the population. The disgusting history that the US has with regard to Iran is a classic example of who the US is as an actor on the world stage and sadly it is not as a force for good.

    The behaviours taught at their infamous school of the Americans formerly in Panama and now with a name change in Georgia is another aspect of how they work training key officials and leaders of Latin American countries how to torture, murder and rape so as to control power and run their countries as US puppet governments just as they ran the shah in Iran as a corrupt US puppet government. The record of the graduates of this infamous school of the Americans is a litany of human rights abuses and even out right war crimes.


  • #166
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The foreign operations of Quds and IRGC have been well known in public domain circles for many years. .......?

    Your problem is that you argue, as an American, from some perceived moral high ground. But there isnt any: you are acting in the same manner and extent as the Iranians, only you are constantly seeing from only one side. To most neutrals, you are as bad as each other. The fact that your CIA/mujahadeen analogy came so easily should clearly signal that to you.


  • #167
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Seems the Iranians as expected are kicking up on their leaders. Viva la revolución!

    https://twitter.com/Ali_Az_Abadan/status/1216023243418677249?s=20


  • #168
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,339 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Seems the Iranians as expected are kicking up on their leaders. Viva la revolución!

    You realise they were doing this already and Soleimani's murder initially united them? The Americans can hardly congratulate themselves if the Iranians finally end up back in the same position they were in before the killing.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #169
    droidus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Your problem is that you argue, as an American, from some perceived moral high ground. But there isnt any: you are acting in the same manner and extent as the Iranians, only you are constantly seeing from only one side. To most neutrals, you are as bad as each other. The fact that your CIA/mujahadeen analogy came so easily should clearly signal that to you.

    In fact, the US is generally perceived as being much worse than Iran, repeatedly being seen as the greatest threat to world peace in international surveys. Rightfully so, as deaths from direct and proxy US military action since WWII numbers in the tens of millions. That's before you even get into economic warfare and consistent support for brutally oppressive regimes.

    Trump is just the final nail in the coffin of the myth of US benevolence.


  • #170
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Isn't Trump giving less support to regimes. Like he takes out the Iranian General and avoids people getting killed and he's seemingly unhinged yet Obama propped them up with billions in cash and he's seen as a good guy.
    How can we have a safer world when the only guy doing something about the bad guys is constantly retarded by leftist media who would rather more people die as long as nobody has to take a stance. I don't get it.


  • #171
    droidus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    lol. Yeah, you can tell that Trump hates 'the bad guys' by the people he praises and supports - Putin, The Saudis, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu... paragons of virtue all.


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  • #172
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    droidus wrote: »
    lol. Yeah, you can tell that Trump hates 'the bad guys' by the people he praises and supports - Putin, The Saudis, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu... paragons of virtue all.

    I don't see anyone else stepping up. Cast the first stone etc


  • #173
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭eire4


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Your problem is that you argue, as an American, from some perceived moral high ground. But there isnt any: you are acting in the same manner and extent as the Iranians, only you are constantly seeing from only one side. To most neutrals, you are as bad as each other. The fact that your CIA/mujahadeen analogy came so easily should clearly signal that to you.

    That really is the bottom line. The idea that the Americans are the good guys is absolutely risible based on their own behaviour and that of the countries like Saudi Arabia that they are allied with in the middle east.


  • #174
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Isn't Trump giving less support to regimes. Like he takes out the Iranian General and avoids people getting killed and he's seemingly unhinged yet Obama propped them up with billions in cash and he's seen as a good guy.

    How many billions did Obama give to Iran and when?
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    How can we have a safer world when the only guy doing something about the bad guys is constantly retarded by leftist media who would rather more people die as long as nobody has to take a stance. I don't get it.

    What bad guys has he taken out? Suilimani sure, but clearly not based on any actual evidence of an imminent threat. But KJU, Putin, Syria, Turkey?

    What about the crack down in Hong Kong? Or the China intern camps?


  • #175
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,122 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How many billions did Obama give to Iran and when?



    What bad guys has he taken out? Suilimani sure, but clearly not based on any actual evidence of an imminent threat. But KJU, Putin, Syria, Turkey?

    What about the crack down in Hong Kong? Or the China intern camps?

    Reverse engineering in technicolour.

    If Pompeo says he was an imminent threat, then that's why Trump did it.

    Or else it was because of what Graham said - it was retaliation.

    Trump could never be wrong of course.

    Nothing to do with the Post and other newspapers saying Trump did it in order to secure support from certain Republicans for his impeachment trial....


  • #176
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    eire4 wrote: »
    That really is the bottom line. The idea that the Americans are the good guys is absolutely risible based on their own behaviour and that of the countries like Saudi Arabia that they are allied with in the middle east.

    In terms of the history of US-Iran relations, Iran has been the more sinned against party, and it isn't remotely close, it's pretty much all one way.


  • #177
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How many billions did Obama give to Iran and when?

    What bad guys has he taken out? Suilimani sure, but clearly not based on any actual evidence of an imminent threat.

    What about the crack down in Hong Kong? Or the China intern camps?


    Pick a number between 1 and 100 billion. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/white-house/477666-obama-should-apologize-for-shameful-cash-payment-to-iran%3famp

    Soleimani was always a threat, he's a very bad guy that should have been terminated years ago. Obama should have taken him out for the Washington incident. It was reason enough let alone what he's responsible for across the middle east.

    As for guys he's taken out...I recall a certain beardy guy, had a little club going in the middle east, you might have heard of it, ISIS, maybe your giving Conan credit for that one.


  • #178
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    It is really something that we are now supposed to believe the security services, which only recently Trump was claiming the FBI were actively out to get him and that he believed Putin over them.

    But now we are supposed to accept that not only are they people Trump trusts, but people we should all trust without any actual evidence.

    And it is something that I have personally picked up on recently. Americans have no understanding of how they are viewed in areas like the ME. Many of them seem to have swallowed the line that they are delivering democracy to the world and that their bombs and drone strikes are welcomed by those in the area, well those not killed!

    So they have every right to be upset and want retribution for any lost citizens, but any killings they are involved in are simply the costs of democracy. Why can they not see that they way they feel when their soldiers are killed, is the same way that say the Iraqis feel when a drone strike takes out a wedding party.


  • #179
    droidus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    Hmmm... ISIS, yeah... Soleimani was described as the 'lynchpin' and 'mastermind' behind their defeat IIRC.


  • #180
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Is there any reputable source anywhere which indicates that Soleimani was not actively partaking in the organising and supplying for attacks against US and allied forces?

    I mean, there's no evidence that OBL was actively about to attack anyone when we violated Pakistani sovereignty to kill him (Did the US have Pakistani permission to do any strikes at all in the country?) but not many people think it was a bad call.

    Iran took less than a week to take responsibility for downing a plane full of innocent passengers.


    How long did it take the US to do the same.

    I mean since we are playing a game of legtimacy and honesty ethics. The US likes to portray itself as holier than now.


    What's the answer in years...


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  • #181
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Pick a number between 1 and 100 billion. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/white-house/477666-obama-should-apologize-for-shameful-cash-payment-to-iran%3famp

    Soleimani was always a threat, he's a very bad guy that should have been terminated years ago. Obama should have taken him out for the Washington incident. It was reason enough let alone what he's responsible for across the middle east.

    As for guys he's taken out...I recall a certain beardy guy, had a little club going in the middle east, you might have heard of it, ISIS, maybe your giving Conan credit for that one.

    So you have no actual numbers? You are sending me to an opinion piece?

    I'll try again. How many billions did Obama send to Iran and when?

    On Soleimani, yet again it isn't that he is dead that is the issue, it is how it was undertaken. First they claimed it was an imminent threat, now you are saying the guy was terrible. But then why is Trump not going after the Chinese with their intern camps? Or the King of Syria. Or what about MLB after the killing of the journalist? Or why has he not demanded that SA answer for so many of the hyjackers on 9/11 coming from there?

    But why hasn't he done anything about KJU? He fact along with Putin, Yi he has bigged them up. So it would seem that he isn't really that concerned about evil as you claim.


  • #182
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It is really something that we are now supposed to believe the security services, which only recently Trump was claiming the FBI were actively out to get him and that he believed Putin over them.

    But now we are supposed to accept that not only are they people Trump trusts, but people we should all trust without any actual evidence.

    And it is something that I have personally picked up on recently. Americans have no understanding of how they are viewed in areas like the ME. Many of them seem to have swallowed the line that they are delivering democracy to the world and that their bombs and drone strikes are welcomed by those in the area, well those not killed!

    So they have every right to be upset and want retribution for any lost citizens, but any killings they are involved in are simply the costs of democracy. Why can they not see that they way they feel when their soldiers are killed, is the same way that say the Iraqis feel when a drone strike takes out a wedding party.

    Who's side are you on? The guys a killer the world's better off without him. Let's say Leo ordered it, would it be ok then.


  • #183
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Who's side are you on? The guys a killer the world's better off without him. Let's say Leo ordered it, would it be ok then.

    Sides.... This is hilarious. Come on its not school fella


  • #184
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So you have no actual numbers? You are sending me to an opinion piece?

    I'll try again. How many billions did Obama send to Iran and when?

    1.3 billion and 25cent, how would I have an exact number. It was over a billion in cash and 100 million odd in aid. Are you disputing he supported the Iranians with any money?


  • #185
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I am the side of legality and truth, because that is what democracy is supposed to be built on.

    If Leo ordered it I would expect Leo to have provided evidence at this point, not to leave the reason up to changing stories and some people on the interweb to 'interpret' it based on no actual information of what happened.

    Whose side on you on? You prefer that laws can simply be broken because it suits your goals?

    I would like the US to be the leader in the world, both in terms of economy and also in values. A nation that can drive human kind forward by using it vast resources and ideas to makes things better. I don't expect the US to feel they are above the law and can simply assignate people because they can't be bothered with diplomacy.


  • #186
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    listermint wrote: »
    Sides.... This is hilarious. Come on its not school fella

    He seems to be anti this guy been taken out. So he's on the do nothing side. I'm happy he's gone as I believe it's good for Iran and the middle east.


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  • #187
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    1.3 billion and 25cent, how would I have an exact number. It was over a billion in cash and 100 million odd in aid. Are you disputing he supported the Iranians with any money?

    I would just like to know. You stated it so I assume you have some facts to back it up. The fact that you are know coming back with playground backchat would lead me to think that you read it or heard it somewhere and simply accepted it as the truth without checking for yourself.


  • #188
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    He seems to be anti this guy been taken out. So he's on the do nothing side. I'm happy he's gone as I believe it's good for Iran and the middle east.

    I'm sorry but you've a juvenile understanding of the middle East.

    It's high time the US started acting like the adult in the room. I suppose we shall leave that to the EU where we stop fighting with each other and start participating in the world on which we reside.

    Can you imagine the advances in space energy and environmental technologies if we put half the money you are war mongering into young minds.


    We can only hope..


  • #189
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    He seems to be anti this guy been taken out. So he's on the do nothing side. I'm happy he's gone as I believe it's good for Iran and the middle east.

    He seems? So you are just making stuff up at this point.

    It isn't anti to ask questions. Do you accept anything that happens by people you support?

    We are back to GWB's line of 'with us or against us' and we all know how that turned out. WMD was a massive lie and there was far too many simply willing to accept the US word at the time. Lesson learned and now we have a clear liar in charge it makes it even more important to question authority.

    It is the very essence of a functioning democracy.


  • #190
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I am the side of legality and truth, because that is what democracy is supposed to be built on.

    Whose side on you on? You prefer that laws can simply be broken because it suits your goals?

    So you believe in democracy and the Democratically elected president. Good.

    In relation to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Soleimani, who cares about checks and balances just kill these guys. No permission needed. There lawless men.


  • #191
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    So you believe in democracy and the Democratically elected president. Good.

    In relation to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Soleimani, who cares about checks and balances just kill these guys. No permission needed. There lawless men.

    Fine. Where is the line then? Who gets to decide when law should be followed and when it shouldn't?

    You do realise that that is exactly the way they think? But they are terrorists and you are what exactly?


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  • #192
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    He seems? So you are just making stuff up at this point.
    It isn't anti to ask questions. Do you accept anything that happens by people you support?

    You seem upset that Soleimani was taken out, maybe your happy, it's not coming across like that. Or is it he didn't get due process and a fair trail you take issue with. He's not the type of guy you can arrest.

    No harm in asking questions. I'm not sure who I support. I support trump in this move regardless of motive it's a good thing.


  • #193
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You seem upset that Soleimani was taken out, maybe your happy, it's not coming across like that. Or is it he didn't get due process and a fair trail you take issue with. He's not the type of guy you can arrest.

    No harm in asking questions. I'm not sure who I support. I support trump in this move regardless of motive it's a good thing.

    I'd imagine you'd support trump in any move frankly.

    It wouldn't matter what it was. That much is evident


  • #194
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Fine. Where is the line then? Who gets to decide when law should be followed and when it shouldn't?

    You do realise that that is exactly the way they think? But they are terrorists and you are what exactly?

    The line is killing, your open to retribution from that moment on. The law isn't fit for purpose in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to justice. There was no way to take this man to task.

    So there Terrorists and as we in the west want them dead were Terrorists too, I don't agree with that logic, Trump, Leo, Justin, Angela, Putin, Boris are not killing their own people.


  • #195
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You seem upset that Soleimani was taken out, maybe your happy, it's not coming across like that. Or is it he didn't get due process and a fair trail you take issue with. He's not the type of guy you can arrest.

    No harm in asking questions. I'm not sure who I support. I support trump in this move regardless of motive it's a good thing.

    I only seem upset that he was taken out because you are not reading what I am saying. Nearly ever person that speaks on this topic, make it clear that him being dead is not something to be sad about.

    How can you support Trump on this when it is clear he had no basis for what he did? It had nothing to do with what he did on the past. Why? Because didn't claim it was. It was about future threats. But they do not appear to exist, so the story has changed to him being evil. And you seem to accept that without question despite him being caught in another lie. And this can only be based on security services that Trump and the right wing media has spent the last 3 years telling us is out to get him and actively working against the will of the US people.

    Do you have an answer to where the new line will drawn. According to you, POTUS is free to make whatever rules he wants, when he wants.


  • #196
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    listermint wrote: »
    I'd imagine you'd support trump in any move frankly.

    It wouldn't matter what it was. That much is evident

    Not necessarily, I just couldn't support anyone on the left, same as I couldn't the last time. At least American is lucky to have two polar opposites.
    As for here I don't know what way to vote, FG probably as I'm not homeless and don't need a hospital bed. I feel a bit guilty though as feel like a FF supporter back in the tiger days, I know I'm doing wrong but the other side is an unknown and doesn't look any different.


  • #197
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    The line is killing, your open to retribution from that moment on. The law isn't fit for purpose in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to justice. There was no way to take this man to task.

    So on that logic, Trump is a legitimate target for Iran? You would be perfectly understanding if that happened?

    And killing who? Why did Trump not kill MLB after the murder of the journalist. Why no KJU after the death of Otto?
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    So there Terrorists and as we in the west want them dead were Terrorists too, I don't agree with that logic, Trump, Leo, Justin, Angela, Putin, Boris are not killing their own people.

    No I never said they were. I simply said that that as we think of them as terrorists, they think of the likes of the US as terrorists.

    I note as well that you have given up to try give any facts about the billions that Obama gave to Iran.


  • #198
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I only seem upset that he was taken out because you are not reading what I am saying. Nearly ever person that speaks on this topic, make it clear that him being dead is not something to be sad about.

    How can you support Trump on this when it is clear he had no basis for what he did?

    So your happy he's gone because he was a killer but your not happy as there was no basis for killing him.


  • #199
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    So your happy he's gone because he was a killer but your not happy as there was no basis for killing him.

    I would like to see at least the basis for evidence, hell even a consistent story would be a start. There was no legal basis for killing him. There was plenty of reason to what him dead, from what I can gather, but I am lucky that I live in a country that respects the rule of law (or at least pretends to).

    You seem more than happy to forego that to feel safer, and I am merely asking at what point does it stop.

    I also do not believe an adminstration that has lied multiple times and told us all not to believe the US security services.


  • #200
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Not necessarily, I just couldn't support anyone on the left, same as I couldn't the last time. At least American is lucky to have two polar opposites.
    As for here I don't know what way to vote, FG probably as I'm not homeless and don't need a hospital bed. I feel a bit guilty though as feel like a FF supporter back in the tiger days, I know I'm doing wrong but the other side is an unknown and doesn't look any different.

    Is this a spoof ?

    You don't have a vote in America your Irish. What vote are you talking about. There is no left in America. Zero none zilch.

    Folks support trump not because of policy because it's grand for Winding people up on the internet and they feel much more comfortable in the other opposing category. Doesn't matter what the category is.


  • #201
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So on that logic, Trump is a legitimate target for Iran? You would be perfectly understanding if that happened?

    And killing who? Why did Trump not kill MLB after the murder of the journalist. Why no KJU after the death of Otto?

    No I never said they were. I simply said that that as we think of them as terrorists, they think of the likes of the US as terrorists.

    I note as well that you have given up to try give any facts about the billions that Obama gave to Iran.

    He's a Target for a lot of people all US presidents are, I wouldn't like if it happened, I'd like to see him continue as president and maybe Don Jnr when he retires.

    I don't know why he didn't wipe out the other guys, there all tricky situation that could result in a lot of deaths, I'd be hoping Korea would be United peacefully in my time.

    As for the money, neither of us were there, I'll believe my sources and you can believe yours. I believe he supported the Iranium regieme.


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