Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:02pm

Ivefoundgod wrote:

Clearly someone in Dublin driving to Bray is going to be turned back and rightly so for taking the absolute piss. However anyone in rural Ireland who's nearest takeaway is outside 5km away should have no issues, which is the point that was being made.

I think the point you are missing is that the onus is one you to justify the journey, not on the garda to disprove it.

Making up any old excuse won't be enough. You will have to prove it.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:03pm

PokeHerKing wrote:

So what you're saying is, your interpretation of these ambiguous guidelines is correct and everyone else's is wrong.

I'm saying that its the gardai's interpretation that matters.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:04pm

First Up wrote: »

I'm saying that its the gardai's interpretation that matters.

That’s tyrannical, the Gardai should follow the law, not what they think the law is

Ivefoundgod · 22-10-2020 12:05pm

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Would imagine it would be as simple as showing guard email confirmation from just eat or whatever the case may be.

First Up wrote: »

I think the point you are missing is that the onus is one you to justify the journey, not on the garda to disprove it.

Making up any old excuse won't be enough. You will have to prove it.

See my previous post.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 22-10-2020 12:05pm

It must be some takeaway if it's worth all this hassle

copacetic · 22-10-2020 12:08pm

Tennis shut down as expected.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/tennis-clubs-in-republic-of-ireland-to-close-under-level-5-covid-19-restrictions-1.4388240

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:09pm

PokeHerKing wrote:

Leaving your county as an example is also a bit disingenuous of you but I'd expect nothing less given your posting style on the topic.

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm as piss*d off about not playing as everyone else. I also know that one of the reasons I can't play is because clowns have been breaking and abusing the travel and other restrictions so much that Level 3 wasn't enough to prevent a thousand new cases a day.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:11pm

John Divney wrote:

Thatâ€™s tyrannical, the Gardai should follow the law, not what they think the law is

They are, and they obviously understand it better than you.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:12pm

First Up wrote: »

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm as piss*d off about not playing as everyone else. I also know that one of the reasons I can't play is because clowns have been breaking and abusing the travel and other restrictions so much that Level 3 wasn't enough to prevent a thousand new cases a day.

That’s not the reason it’s because parents want kids and students back in school. And rightly so, blaming the people is a joke, the Government have had no plan, and to cover that up the destroy the economy with a second lockdown. They are to blame solely, I’m not going to clap along as ten years of austerity and suicide are told are good for us.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:13pm

Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote:

It must be some takeaway if it's worth all this hassle

Especially when a â‚¬100 fine is added to price of the chips.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:16pm

John Divney wrote:

Thatâ€™s not the reason itâ€™s because parents want kids and students back in school. And rightly so, blaming the people is a joke, the Government have had no plan, and to cover that up the destroy the economy with a second lockdown. They are to blame solely, Iâ€™m not going to clap along as ten years of austerity and suicide are told are good for us.

Total boll*x. The virus is spread by peoples' behaviour. Nothing else.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:20pm

First Up wrote: »

Total boll*x. The virus is spread by peoples' behaviour. Nothing else.

The virus always spread in households and never decreases by anywhere near enough in a lockdown. Kids and students are the reason.There will be another lockdown as a result whether people lie down and take the country being destroyed the next time is the only question

DeanAustin · 22-10-2020 12:30pm

John Divney wrote: »

That’s not the reason it’s because parents want kids and students back in school. And rightly so, blaming the people is a joke, the Government have had no plan, and to cover that up the destroy the economy with a second lockdown. They are to blame solely, I’m not going to clap along as ten years of austerity and suicide are told are good for us.

Why are we going around blaming people? It's a crappy situation but it's a government trying to manage a virus which is a fairly exceptional event. Every government in the world pretty much, certainly every government in Europe, is struggling with this pandemic and having to react to changing circumstances.

Yes, our lives are being made a bit sh1ttier. No one likes it but it doesn't mean there has to be a scapegoat/bogeyman. It's a freak event.

The selfishness and immaturity being displayed throughout this sorry saga is illuminating.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:33pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Why are we going around blaming people? It's a crappy situation but it's a government trying to manage a virus which is a fairly exceptional event. Every government in the world pretty much, certainly every government in Europe, is struggling with this pandemic and having to react to changing circumstances.

Yes, our lives are being made a bit sh1ttier. No one likes it but it doesn't mean there has to be a scapegoat/bogeyman. It's a freak event.

The selfishness and immaturity being displayed throughout this sorry saga is illuminating.

There hasn’t been selfishness the island is about as docile a bunch of people on earth. There’s been bad policy that will cost us billions and has wrecked the economy for years to come. I guess I’m just ungrateful for that

PokeHerKing · 22-10-2020 12:33pm

First Up wrote: »

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm as piss*d off about not playing as everyone else. I also know that one of the reasons I can't play is because clowns have been breaking and abusing the travel and other restrictions so much that Level 3 wasn't enough to prevent a thousand new cases a day.

The only reason we're having this back and forth is because you condescendingly quoted the part of my post that said I could travel outside 5km for takeout food.

Which is correct. Regardless of whether you agree with that or not. I could care less for your input or opinion on anything else.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:36pm

John Divney wrote:

The virus always spread in households and never decreases by anywhere near enough in a lockdown. Kids and students are the reason.There will be another lockdown as a result whether people lie down and take the country being destroyed the next time is the only question

Would you give Tony Holohan a call and put him straight? The science, tracing data and analysis at his disposal is obviously nothing compared to your gut feeling.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:41pm

First Up wrote: »

Would you give Tony Holohan a call and put him straight? The science, tracing data and analysis at his disposal is obviously nothing compared to your gut feeling.

The science is clear, the WHO even said so. They also said lockdowns were only to be used in a last resort. Ask Tony the cost of the lockdown on no virus related medical issues or social issues. Ask him about how much it costs the nation over ten years. There is a reason Tony isn’t the leader of the country, he had a limited scope

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:42pm

PokeHerKing wrote:

Which is correct. Regardless of whether you agree with that or not. I could care less for your input or opinion on anything else.

I'm not offering opinions. I'm quoting the government directives. You might look them up.

DeanAustin · 22-10-2020 12:44pm

John Divney wrote: »

There hasn’t been selfishness the island is about as docile a bunch of people on earth. There’s been bad policy that will cost us billions and has wrecked the economy for years to come. I guess I’m just ungrateful for that

There is no good policy available to the government for this situation. They have a choice to ruin the economy or let vulnerable people die or find a balance between the two. Without a vaccine, that's their choice. For all the armchair experts, there is no alternative course of action that won't result in either economic ruin, deaths or a mix of the two.

It's sh!t but without a vaccine or the virus burning itself out, it's what we are stuck with.

I don't agree with a lot of the decisions the government have made, including the decision to close golf courses, but I appreciate that them and NPHET are better informed to make those decisions than me. There is no sinister, ulterior motive here, they're just trying to manage a pandemic as best they can.

We will be indebted for billions but so will every other country in the world.

PokeHerKing · 22-10-2020 12:45pm

First Up wrote: »

I'm not offering opinions. I'm quoting the government directives. You might look them up.

You've quoted nothing and offered only opinion. Post up the link it so I can avoid a fine please.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:47pm

John Divney wrote:

The science is clear, the WHO even said so. They also said lockdowns were only to be used in a last resort. Ask Tony the cost of the lockdown on no virus related medical issues or social issues. Ask him about how much it costs the nation over ten years. There is a reason Tony isnâ€™t the leader of the country, he had a limited scope

Where in the science does it say students and kids are to blame? (Some students probably are, but not while in school).

Did I miss your formula for dealing with the virus?

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:51pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

You've quoted nothing and offered only opinion. Post up the link it so I can avoid a fine please.

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/c36c85-covid-19-coronavirus/

John Divney · 22-10-2020 12:52pm

First Up wrote: »

Where in the science does it say students and kids are to blame? (Some students probably are, but not while in school).

Did I miss your formula for dealing with the virus?

I already said student and children should be in school, they aren’t to blame. The increase in the r number is almost totally to do with it however. When you lockdown households the virus doesn’t decrease to anywhere near the number desired because homes are where it spreads. It’s too late when the virus is in the homes a lockdown is not going to stop it by enough

PokeHerKing · 22-10-2020 12:58pm

First Up wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/c36c85-covid-19-coronavirus/

If I asked for a link to a specific golf club would you post a link to halpennygolf.com?

I doubt it but then I know you can't link to where it says I can't travel outside 5km for takeaway because it doesn't say it anywhere and I can.

I mean we're on an anonymous message board, if you can't say mea culpa here I'd pity your partner.

First Up · 22-10-2020 12:58pm

John Divney wrote: »

I already said student and children should be in school, they aren’t to blame. The increase in the r number is almost totally to do with it however. When you lockdown households the virus doesn’t decrease to anywhere near the number desired because homes are where it spreads. It’s too late when the virus is in the homes a lockdown is not going to stop it by enough

You also said this:
"The virus always spread in households and never decreases by anywhere near enough in a lockdown. Kids and students are the reason."

CalamariFritti · 22-10-2020 1:15pm

Anyway...

What do ye all think? Will we be back after 6 weeks? Earlier? Later? And will we have to do the whole 14 minute 2 balls for 3 weeks, then 12 minutes, then whatever yadeeda thing again?

First Up · 22-10-2020 1:18pm

PokeHerKing wrote:

If I asked for a link to a specific golf club would you post a link to halpennygolf.com?

Your point eludes me. You asked for a link to the actual directives which I gave you.

PokeHerKing wrote:

I doubt it but then I know you can't link to where it says I can't travel outside 5km for takeaway because it doesn't say it anywhere and I can.

Does the word "essential" feature in your vocabulary?

You say you can; you might find out if a garda agrees with you

PokeHerKing · 22-10-2020 1:36pm

First Up wrote: »

Your point eludes me. You asked for a link to the actual directives which I gave you.

Does the word "essential" feature in your vocabulary?

You say you can; you might find out if a garda agrees with you

You're making very little sense. Since when has any Restaurant or chipper/Chinese meal been essential?

They've been allowed to continue to offer these services, the public are allowed to avail of these services and you are not restricted to 5km rule for these services.

Thats my point. Now point me to the link that disputes the above as you're under the assumption we cannot avail of these services outside of 5km of our homes.

youcancallmeal · 22-10-2020 1:54pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Anyway...

What do ye all think? Will we be back after 6 weeks? Earlier? Later? And will we have to do the whole 14 minute 2 balls for 3 weeks, then 12 minutes, then whatever yadeeda thing again?

I'm guessing no more competitive play this year if golf does reopen in December. Just have to hope the daily cases decrease massively over the next 6 weeks

First Up · 22-10-2020 1:54pm

PokeHerKing wrote:

They've been allowed to continue to offer these services, the public are allowed to avail of these services and you are not restricted to 5km rule for these services.

I'll leave that decision to the garda who flags you down. You may think your dinner is essential but the garda may not agree it is essential you go further than 5k to get it.

A Shaved Duck? · 22-10-2020 1:56pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Anyway...

What do ye all think? Will we be back after 6 weeks? Earlier? Later? And will we have to do the whole 14 minute 2 balls for 3 weeks, then 12 minutes, then whatever yadeeda thing again?

Would be surprised if we are back before january, if the weather takes a turn for the chilly will put the clubs into hibernation.

benji79 · 22-10-2020 2:05pm

Tennis gone now too.
It’s more likely things will continue to be cancelled than reopened until we see a big drop in numbers

PokeHerKing · 22-10-2020 2:06pm

First Up wrote: »

I'll leave that decision to the garda who flags you down. You may think your dinner is essential but the garda may not agree it is essential you go further than 5k to get it.

I'll leave it there too.

John Divney · 22-10-2020 2:14pm

First Up wrote: »

You also said this:
"The virus always spread in households and never decreases by anywhere near enough in a lockdown. Kids and students are the reason."

Yes that’s where it’s getting into the households, the schools and Unis

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 3:55pm

First Up wrote: »

Green fees, guests and societies are an important part of some (many) clubs' income.

Are you seriously suggesting clubs should continue to pay full maintenance costs for a handful of golfers? Do you expect the pro shop and clubhouse to be fully open too?

Yeah they are, but we are talking about lockdown with no visitors here...

Perhaps members constitute a handful in your club, but I'd think in most members clubs members make up more golfers than visitors.

No I wouldnt expect the Pro Shop to be open in a lockdown...why would I?

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 4:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah they are, but we are talking about lockdown with no visitors here...

Perhaps members constitute a handful in your club, but I'd think in most members clubs members make up more golfers than visitors.

I think that may be true of some golf clubs, but there are many that don't have enough members or a high enough sub for that to be true. A lot of clubs around the country would have membership in the low hundreds.

First Up · 22-10-2020 4:33pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah they are, but we are talking about lockdown with no visitors here...

Perhaps members constitute a handful in your club, but I'd think in most members clubs members make up more golfers than visitors.

No I wouldnt expect the Pro Shop to be open in a lockdown...why would I?

Its an academic discussion as the decision to close has been made. We have plenty of members but I don't think paying your sub entitles you to full service, no matter what. Course maintenance is labour intensive and expensive. Keeping a course operational for the small percentage of members who can use it makes no sense and is unreasonable to expect the club to provide. Do the green keepers live within 5k and if not, is maintaining a barely used golf course justification for them to go further?

We can argue all we want about the health and safety aspects of golf but this is essentially about the travel limit as a defence against an out of control epidemic. Staying open for a handful and - worse - staying open so that people can defy the law to get there is not justified and I'm happy that Golf Ireland stepped in.

22-10-2020 4:39pm

Right I'm out....

Lads,

Please don't spend the next 6 weeks or however long going round and round rehashing the same argument. There is a real world out there. Get out and enjoy it (within 5K). Your brain and body will thank you for it.

Anatom · 22-10-2020 5:08pm

First sensible thing that has been written for a few pages now.

Roger_007 · 22-10-2020 5:20pm

Exactly wrote: »

Right I'm out....

Lads,

Please don't spend the next 6 weeks or however long going round and round rehashing the same argument. There is a real world out there. Get out and enjoy it (within 5K). Your brain and body will thank you for it.

You are absolutely right but for the sake of maintaining our sanity there is no harm in a bit of ‘howling at the wind’ now and again.

macslash · 22-10-2020 7:29pm

Lads, was looking for a bit of help. I bought a practice net on wish during the last lockdown. Took an age to deliver but it's actually quite okay. Recently floored the attic and have a bit of space so want to put it up there. However it uses pins that you drive into the earth to hold it down. Any ideas on what I could do. Was thinking cement blocks at the 4 corners but not sure if it'd work. I have a little mat with half rough grass/half fairway grass, with the rubber tees so I can hit anyway. Any help would be appreciated. Random post I know, makes a change from the last few pages anyway!

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 7:33pm

macslash wrote: »

Lads, was looking for a bit of help. I bought a practice net on wish during the last lockdown. Took an age to deliver but it's actually quite okay. Recently floored the attic and have a bit of space so want to put it up there. However it uses pins that you drive into the earth to hold it down. Any ideas on what I could do. Was thinking cement blocks at the 4 corners but not sure if it'd work. I have a little mat with half rough grass/half fairway grass, with the rubber tees so I can hit anyway. Any help would be appreciated. Random post I know, makes a change from the last few pages anyway!

Could you drill the frame and screw it to the floor?

macslash · 22-10-2020 7:52pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Could you drill the frame and screw it to the floor?

I could do. But I don't want it there long term and I was hoping I could avoid that. I suppose it might be the only option though

PARlance · 22-10-2020 8:03pm

macslash wrote: »

Lads, was looking for a bit of help. I bought a practice net on wish during the last lockdown. Took an age to deliver but it's actually quite okay. Recently floored the attic and have a bit of space so want to put it up there. However it uses pins that you drive into the earth to hold it down. Any ideas on what I could do. Was thinking cement blocks at the 4 corners but not sure if it'd work. I have a little mat with half rough grass/half fairway grass, with the rubber tees so I can hit anyway. Any help would be appreciated. Random post I know, makes a change from the last few pages anyway!

Sand bags... I wouldn't fancy a ricochet from a cement block.

prawnsambo · 22-10-2020 8:31pm

macslash wrote: »

I could do. But I don't want it there long term and I was hoping I could avoid that. I suppose it might be the only option though

Screws can be unscrewed. Use a wood filler on the holes. It's the most sensible solution and also the most sturdy.

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 9:05pm

It won't need that much to hold it down, even a couple of pillows should do it.
Is there anything behind you that you could tie it to?
All you need is to stop it moving away from you.

macslash · 22-10-2020 9:11pm

Wouldn't be able to tie it to anything really unfortunately. Ya I think the screws are the best shout. Thanks for the help lads.

22-10-2020 9:26pm

macslash wrote: »

I could do. But I don't want it there long term and I was hoping I could avoid that. I suppose it might be the only option though

Why not. Anything else is a waste.

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 9:44pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think that may be true of some golf clubs, but there are many that don't have enough members or a high enough sub for that to be true. A lot of clubs around the country would have membership in the low hundreds.

First Up wrote: »

Its an academic discussion as the decision to close has been made. We have plenty of members but I don't think paying your sub entitles you to full service, no matter what. Course maintenance is labour intensive and expensive. Keeping a course operational for the small percentage of members who can use it makes no sense and is unreasonable to expect the club to provide. Do the green keepers live within 5k and if not, is maintaining a barely used golf course justification for them to go further?

We can argue all we want about the health and safety aspects of golf but this is essentially about the travel limit as a defence against an out of control epidemic. Staying open for a handful and - worse - staying open so that people can defy the law to get there is not justified and I'm happy that Golf Ireland stepped in.

My point was less that it should be maintained if only a few people playing (during the last lockdown we have full timesheets everyday, so why would you not maintain the course?) but more that if you dont do all the stuff you normally do over the off season, its going to be harder to keep/attract members/greenfees when lockdown ends.

If maintaining the course is justified then its justified, irrespective of how used the course is.

GreeBo · 22-10-2020 9:44pm

macslash wrote: »

Wouldn't be able to tie it to anything really unfortunately. Ya I think the screws are the best shout. Thanks for the help lads.

Tie it to a concrete block that is behind you, anything in front of you is asking for trouble.

Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions