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2019 AO Competition announced

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Comments

  • #2
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Note- at least they're being forthright this time round- its a Dublin only competition...…….


  • #3
    OutForTender
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭OutForTender


    I might apply. I have just commenced a role with the CS however the terms of that appointmemt have changed since. I'd expect I will be moving on soon.


  • #4
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,025 ✭✭✭duffman13


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Publicjobs had hinted at this a few weeks ago- but they have quietly let it out the door without a fanfare:

    https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=108217&campaignId=19206106

    Very tight closing date of the 7th of October!!!!

    Best of good luck to everyone.

    The application is a tick box, strange one!


  • #5
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    duffman13 wrote: »
    The application is a tick box, strange one!

    Tick box- then the online tests- only then will we have to fill out the formal application- aka we won't be investing hours in the form unless we get through to the interview stage.


  • #6
    Ollie321
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Ollie321


    Very disappointing (if not surprising) that there are no Regional locations


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  • #7
    Gus Ivey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Gus Ivey


    Just to confirm - To apply all I you need to do is select which of the 3 streams you are selecting (General, HR etc) and submit. Then wait for the next stage?

    Thanks


  • #8
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Correct. CV etc is after the online testing (and presumably before the video interview- which sounds pretty horrendous- I'd much rather a face-to-face interview). Aka- all the people who do the online testing and fail that stage- do not get lumbered with a couple of hours work doing their CVs................


  • #9
    Cheeseplant
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Correct. CV etc is after the online testing (and presumably before the video interview- which sounds pretty horrendous- I'd much rather a face-to-face interview). Aka- all the people who do the online testing and fail that stage- do not get lumbered with a couple of hours work doing their CVs................

    But the videos are only for HR and B
    &F streams:D
    General.. here we come!


  • #10
    doc22
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22


    The way they were calling down the panels last year they either needed lots of Business and Finance Grads or they were being really selective on who they took on hence why they are doing video interview now


  • #11
    job seeker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,116 ✭✭✭job seeker


    3 questions (personal details, selection of sub campaign and the special needs question) for the application form? Is that all?

    EDIT: Never mind, I read above! :)


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  • #12
    rostalof
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭rostalof


    There's another thread for this competition, maybe they should be merged?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111404164#post111404164


  • #13
    Minifox
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Minifox


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Publicjobs had hinted at this a few weeks ago- but they have quietly let it out the door without a fanfare:

    https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=108217&campaignId=19206106

    Very tight closing date of the 7th of October!!!!

    Best of good luck to everyone.

    I wonder if someone could answer a couple of questions. Apologies in advance if they're dumb questions. I cannot get my head around the civil service.
    1) Is there any significant difference between the EO and AO roles (apart from the extra 2K that AO's get paid)?
    2) Are the AO roles directed toward recent graduates? Can the over 40s apply?
    3) If I've already accepted (but not started) an EO position, can I still apply for an AO role?
    Thanks in advance.


  • #14
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Minifox wrote: »
    I wonder if someone could answer a couple of questions. Apologies in advance if they're dumb questions. I cannot get my head around the civil service.
    1) Is there any significant difference between the EO and AO roles (apart from the extra 2K that AO's get paid)?
    2) Are the AO roles directed toward recent graduates? Can the over 40s apply?
    3) If I've already accepted (but not started) an EO position, can I still apply for an AO role?
    Thanks in advance.


    1 - yes, the salary scale goes much higher for AO then EO and goes up more rapidly, although depending on your skill set and self confidence you might prefer to gamble on 2-3 years at EO before jumping to HEO which would move your income up faster. AO is meant to be more policy based and research work, EO is more admin & junior people management. Officially AO and HEO are the same level but with different focuses.

    2 - in theory I think they are meant to be grad roles but in practice most people I know who get an AO role are at least late 20s or more. Age is no barrier.

    3 - yes, no problem


  • #15
    Lynnington3
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Lynnington3


    Cheeseplant wrote: »
    But the videos are only for HR and B
    &F streams:D
    General.. here we come!

    Is this true? No video interviews for general stream?


  • #16
    Cheeseplant
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    Lynnington3 wrote: »
    Is this true? No video interviews for general stream?

    Says only HR and B&F in the booklet so I guess so.


  • #17
    Cheeseplant
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    In regards to eligibility for the general it states 1st/2nd class honours level 8. I don't have that grade in my level 8 but I do hold a level 9 and 10 so I presume I am still eligible?? It does state level 8 or level 9 for the HR stream but doesn't have an 'or' option for the other two streams.


  • #18
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Cheeseplant wrote: »
    In regards to eligibility for the general it states 1st/2nd class honours level 8. I don't have that grade in my level 8 but I do hold a level 9 and 10 so I presume I am still eligible?? It does state level 8 or level 9 for the HR stream but doesn't have an 'or' option for the other two streams.

    Level 8 is a minimum requirement- so a Level 9 (or higher) will trump it.
    You're sorted. If you have any doubts- best bet is to confirm with PAS.


  • #19
    job seeker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,116 ✭✭✭job seeker


    When do ye think that the first part will be out for this competition? I am on holidays from the 16th-25th of this month.


  • #20
    LordBasil
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭LordBasil


    Does anyone know what Departments are most likely to take on AOs (General Stream) and what type of roles they are expected to do?


  • #21
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    LordBasil wrote: »
    Does anyone know what Departments are most likely to take on AOs (General Stream) and what type of roles they are expected to do?

    It really depends.
    Historically AOs have congregated in Finance, Revenue and the Taoiseach's Office. Of late- they can pop up literally anywhere- however, the general stream ones very often have complained of being defacto HEOs- with identical or very similar staff responsibilities- on a lower salary.

    At the moment there are some very topical things happening that could potentially support a number of AOs in research and policy roles- including, but not limited to- Brexit, Climate Change (and its mitigation), Housing, the evolving needs of BMW regions etc etc.

    Its hard to even guess what sort of role you might end up in- however, in theory, it should be a policy or research type role.


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  • #22
    Sbibii121
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Sbibii121


    Does anyone have any insight into whether AO roles could be available in the AGS going forward, especially with the amount of organisational change happening?


  • #23
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sbibii121 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any insight into whether AO roles could be available in the AGS going forward, especially with the amount of organisational change happening?

    Its not impossible- but it is would be improbable.
    Justice- certainly, AGS- doubtful.


  • #24
    Ravelleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ravelleman


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Ihowever, the general stream ones very often have complained of being defacto HEOs- with identical or very similar staff responsibilities- on a lower salary.

    This is absolutely the case.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Its not impossible- but it is would be improbable.
    Justice- certainly, AGS- doubtful.

    There are indeed AOs in AGS.


  • #25
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ravelleman wrote: »
    There are indeed AOs in AGS.

    I've learnt something new.


  • #26
    SFC1895
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭SFC1895


    Surprised that there are AOs working with the Guards. Odd.


  • #27
    Rothmans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Ravelleman wrote: »
    There are indeed AOs in AGS.

    I've learnt something new.

    There have been quite a few AOs appointed from other branches of the CS in recent times, so it's certainly a possibility that there could be AOs recruited directly to AGS in this campaign. Although, I'm not aware of any previous direct recruitment to AGS at AO level. I am open to correction on this though.


  • #28
    Ravelleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ravelleman


    Rothmans wrote: »
    There have been quite a few AOs appointed from other branches of the CS in recent times, so it's certainly a possibility that there could be AOs recruited directly to AGS in this campaign. Although, I'm not aware of any previous direct recruitment to AGS at AO level. I am open to correction on this though.

    I am not sure what you mean by direct recruitment. As a Civil Service agency, AGS does most of its recruitment from PAS panels.

    There are, objectively, a number of AOs in AGS.


  • #29
    Cossie44
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Cossie44


    Ravelleman wrote: »
    I am not sure what you mean by direct recruitment. As a Civil Service agency, AGS does most of its recruitment from PAS panels.

    There are, objectively, a number of AOs in AGS.

    AGS are not looking for AO unless in highly specific areas such as crime analysis, they will also be focusing their CS recruitment for CO/EO/HEO and a few AP in line with their redeployment commitment.


  • #30
    Rothmans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    Ravelleman wrote: »
    Rothmans wrote: »
    There have been quite a few AOs appointed from other branches of the CS in recent times, so it's certainly a possibility that there could be AOs recruited directly to AGS in this campaign. Although, I'm not aware of any previous direct recruitment to AGS at AO level. I am open to correction on this though.

    I am not sure what you mean by direct recruitment. As a Civil Service agency, AGS does most of its recruitment from PAS panels.

    There are, objectively, a number of AOs in AGS.

    Apologies. I'm conflating AGS's previously stated intention to recruit civil servants directly (i.e. outside the PAS) with the current thread.

    What i should have said was that I am not aware of AGS appointing AOs via a competition run by PAS. As far as I'm aware, any AO was a currently serving AO (or possibly a promoted CO/EO) already serving in another part of the civil or public service.


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  • #31
    Ravelleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ravelleman


    Rothmans wrote: »
    As far as I'm aware, any AO was a currently serving AO (or possibly a promoted CO/EO) already serving in another part of the civil or public service.

    That's not the case.


  • #32
    Rothmans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    Ravelleman wrote: »
    That's not the case.

    Well that's good news for the poster who made the initial enquiry so. As I said, I wasn't aware that the PAS recruit AOs for AGS through through public competitions.


  • #33
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    There are very few AO's in AGS.


  • #34
    Ravelleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ravelleman


    Cossie44 wrote: »
    AGS are not looking for AO unless in highly specific areas such as crime analysis, they will also be focusing their CS recruitment for CO/EO/HEO and a few AP in line with their redeployment commitment.

    That's actually not the case either. The crime analyst roles are pitched at EO and HEO level.

    Undoubtedly though, AO is the least common grade in AGS but there are a few more to go there yet.


  • #35
    Sbibii121
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Sbibii121


    Thanks for the insight.. Im in AGS as EO, doing performance accountability and the job requires some analysis, its an interesting role. In the future I would be interested in policy and research, and thought applying for AO might be a way, instead of waiting for two years before entering an HEO competition. Anyway we shall see.


  • #36
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sbibii121 wrote: »
    Thanks for the insight.. Im in AGS as EO, doing performance accountability and the job requires some analysis, its an interesting role. In the future I would be interested in policy and research, and thought applying for AO might be a way, instead of waiting for two years before entering an HEO competition. Anyway we shall see.

    Just to point out- its entirely normal for an EO to have staff responsibilities and be involved in analysis and research- either independently or as part of a team. Its far more likely now for role inflation such as this- than it was scarcely 15 years ago.


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  • #37
    Larkinage
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Larkinage


    Hi folks.

    The requirements for the general stream states you need a "first or second class primary honours degree".

    I have a level 8 degree, however, I only achieved a 2.2. Does anyone know if this would suffice or are they looking for a 1.1 or a 2.1 minimum?

    Thanks for the help


  • #38
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    2.2 *is* a second class honours degree.
    Level 8 is a different matter.
    They said second class honours Level 8 min- you have the prescribed qualification, well done.


  • #39
    Cheeseplant
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    Larkinage wrote: »
    Hi folks.

    The requirements for the general stream states you need a "first or second class primary honours degree".

    I have a level 8 degree, however, I only achieved a 2.2. Does anyone know if this would suffice or are they looking for a 1.1 or a 2.1 minimum?

    Thanks for the help


    2.2 is still 2nd class hons ..


  • #40
    jw_sweetman
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭jw_sweetman


    Has anyone read the familiarisation material for the aptitude tests yet? They seem like a major departure from the ones that they've been using for the past few years.


  • #41
    Messi19
    Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Messi19


    Not done one of these before but I'll give it a bash anyway. Any tips?


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  • #42
    Sbibii121
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Sbibii121


    jw_sweetman wrote: »
    Has anyone read the familiarisation material for the aptitude tests yet? They seem like a major departure from the ones that they've been using for the past few years.

    Deductive logical thinking is a new one. Ive done the other ones before. I wonder if you have to do them in one sitting.


  • #43
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sbibii121 wrote: »
    Deductive logical thinking is a new one. Ive done the other ones before. I wonder if you have to do them in one sitting.

    You don't- you can take them separately.
    However, I expect Stage 2 to be an invigilated resit of stage 1- where you'll have to sit them all together- so its a more real world approach to it, if you do them all in the one sitting.

    The patterns and shapes in information, most probably actual shapes etc- is something they used to use in the distant past (I did my first EO exam back in 1998- and it featured the Deductive-Logical Thinking stage (at that time)).

    Any idea on how its marked- the standard is the numerical is a pass only exam- the actual score is a composite of the other parts of the overall test. They haven't marked numerical other than as a pass/fail- at any stage in the last 20 odd years. Also- the perenial question which never gets answered- is whether there is negative marking (or not). You get told to avoid 'wild guessing' but without any signpost as to whether this means its negatively marked and there are consequences- or not.........

    Good luck everyone- it sounds like we're going to have an interesting weekend.


  • #44
    whampiri
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 395 ✭✭whampiri


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    You don't- you can take them separately.
    However, I expect Stage 2 to be an invigilated resit of stage 1- where you'll have to sit them all together- so its a more real world approach to it, if you do them all in the one sitting.

    The patterns and shapes in information, most probably actual shapes etc- is something they used to use in the distant past (I did my first EO exam back in 1998- and it featured the Deductive-Logical Thinking stage (at that time)).

    Any idea on how its marked- the standard is the numerical is a pass only exam- the actual score is a composite of the other parts of the overall test. They haven't marked numerical other than as a pass/fail- at any stage in the last 20 odd years. Also- the perenial question which never gets answered- is whether there is negative marking (or not). You get told to avoid 'wild guessing' but without any signpost as to whether this means its negatively marked and there are consequences- or not.........

    Good luck everyone- it sounds like we're going to have an interesting weekend.

    There's no negative marking. If there is, this would be a departure on previous years and would need to be stated. For this reason, I advise all candidates to complete the assessments in full. If you only have 1minute left and 4 questions, guess the answers to the 3 and try do the last using reason but don't leave any unanswered.

    Note that I have come across versions of the test where there is a set amount of time per question. Should they use this method, you will be given 2-3mins per question. You should never proceed to the next question before the time elapses. Use the time to recheck your answer or grab a sip of water.

    As a former AO and AP, I'm available(in Cork) to provide interview training to anyone who makes it through the psychometric exams. Just drop me a pm.


  • #45
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    whampiri wrote: »
    As a former AO and AP, I'm available(in Cork) to provide interview training to anyone who makes it through the psychometric exams. Just drop me a pm.

    That's remarkably kind of you- I'd strongly encourage anyone in the Cork area to take up the offer- the interview and presentation are the two areas that candidates can really try to hone their skills- the rest of the process is more about innate abilities.

    Mighty decent of you.


  • #46
    kavo89
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭kavo89


    Does anybody know the starting salary scale for this position? Does previous experience or degrees play a role in starting salary?


  • #47
    Passenger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭Passenger


    kavo89 wrote: »
    Does anybody know the starting salary scale for this position? Does previous experience or degrees play a role in starting salary?

    Civil Service Pay Scales. And no, experience/education does not effect salary.


  • #48
    LordBasil
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭LordBasil


    Tests issued - good luck everyone


  • #49
    SeanOS92
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭SeanOS92


    Was anyone able to access the Situational Jusgement Practice info?


  • #50
    elWizard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭elWizard


    SeanOS92 wrote: »
    Was anyone able to access the Situational Jusgement Practice info?


    far as i can see it's just the last 2 pages of this pdf:
    https://www.publicjobs.ie/restapi/documents/19206106_Situational_Judgement_Test_Example.pdf


  • #51
    Rothmans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    Out of a matter of interest I threw in an application for this myself. It was out of curiosity and to see what the tests were like more than anything else. Just a heads up - the user interface is absolutely shocking, especially for the tests that have tabs. I have windows 8, and the browser window didn't actually fit into the screen properly if that makes sense? I had to do a bit of scrolling up and down. May have been an issue with my PC, but I really don't think so.

    If you'll recall from the sample questions provided by Cut E, there were six tabs, and a number of questions based on the content of these 6 tabs. This was the format of the questions here. However, when you selected one of the six tabs to read the content, it came up as a pop-up, rather than the way it was in the practice tests. Because of this, you couldn't refer to the question as you read the relevant tab. I had to constantly flick between the question being asked and the relevant tabs (pop ups), which was quite cumbersome, as you need to be able to refer to the questions, as you read the relevant tab. When I needed to refer to the question, I had to exit out of the tab, read the question, then re-open the tab. Also, switching between the tabs was quite tedious as, again, you had to X out of whatever tab you were in and open the tab/pop-up you wanted to refer to next.

    Also, take your time with the deductive reasoning. There were actually an unlimited number of questions here, which would suggest an element of negative marking. So I think quality is more important than quantity in this respect.

    As regards the contents of the questions etc, I obviously can't discuss due to competition rules etc., but I think the comments I have made regarding the poor user interface provided by Cut E are fair. I don't understand why they provided one user interface in the familiarisation material, and replaced it with a vastly inferior interface for the actual tests.

    Mods, delete if you think this is inappropriate, but I have avoided discussing the actual content of the test materials themselves, as I certainly wouldn't want to be in breach of the charter or competition rules.


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