Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Vat fraud??

Options
124»

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    Don't know how it works from their end but I dont think its done as much as you think. Yes people will blur the lines between their business and personal use but I dont think its right to assume employees are using their employers vat number for personal items.

    They will somehow get a list of every irish vat number used and then by random selection or a computer see the ones that are with an address / credit card not usually associated with that business. Then look any closer and that item isn't listed in their vat returns...

    They care because they might be sending that company a vat refund when that item being bought could actually mean they aren't entitled to the same refund etc.

    Its not a nobody loses out situation because the vat needs to balance out or else revenue would be subsidising your TV

    I can understand this. If they saw the sale is attached to a particular vat number but they see that a different debit card was used then perhaps thats a flag but would they know the companies card details in order to know when a card used does not belong to the company?? Plus is it actually illegal?? If a company orders a product for business use but uses there personal card ?? Is this an issue??


  • Options
    #93
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    baalad wrote: »
    Ive brought it up with him and honestly he reacted like it wasn't a huge deal. He said not to worry that it shouldn't be a problem but that its best not to do it.

    So ask a mod to close or delete this entire thread before it ends up in bargain alerts.
    Anything that's got to do with your employer always ask first and I mean anything, that includes whacking the chap that shifted your Mrs in Dicey Rileys the other night.
    Whether at work or not, respect your employer, your their representative 24hrs a day.


  • Options
    #94
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    A little off topic but there is hundreds of sellers on adverts in particular that sell brand new products at cheaper then shop prices. How is this possible? Are they illegally buying them ex vat?? If they were buying new products inclusive of vat then they simply couldnt offer them for the prices they are! If assume most sellers must be buying these products ex vat in order to make a return but how can they be doing this unless they are vat registered and most of them are not in my opinion


  • Options
    #95
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    baalad wrote: »
    A little off topic but there is hundreds of sellers on adverts in particular that sell brand new products at cheaper then shop prices. How is this possible? Are they illegally buying them ex vat?? If they were buying new products inclusive of vat then they simply couldnt offer them for the prices they are! If assume most sellers must be buying these products ex vat in order to make a return but how can they be doing this unless they are vat registered and most of them are not in my opinion

    As someone that competes honestly with these people I'd love to work for the revenue for a few weeks and shut them all down. I deal with some of the biggest distributors in Europe and their prices aren't possible without a vat dodge.
    There's also a load of fakes, again just let me at them.


  • Options
    #96
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    As someone that competes honestly with these people I'd love to work for the revenue for a few weeks and shut them all down. I deal with some of the biggest distributors in Europe and their prices aren't possible without a vat dodge.
    There's also a load of fakes, again just let me at them.

    How are they getting away with it though?? If i wanted to sell a brand new phone for a competitive price then i would literally have to dodge the vat . Sell the item and pocket the cash! Theres no way people can do this consistently and get away with it surely?? I have seen sellers on adverts who are there years and with great feedback. You can buy the latest smartphones from these people for maybe 100 - 200 less then what you pay in the shops and they aren't flogging unwanted upgrades because they are selling tons of phones.

    Wouldnt it be easy for revenue to contact the likes of adverts and get names, i.p addresses and so forth and investigate these people? Some operate under "business names" so they appear to have shops etc yet their prices are are well below any official outlet.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    wyndham
    Registered Users Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭wyndham


    baalad wrote: »
    How are they getting away with it though?? If i wanted to sell a brand new phone for a competitive price then i would literally have to dodge the vat . Sell the item and pocket the cash! Theres no way people can do this consistently and get away with it surely?? I have seen sellers on adverts who are there years and with great feedback. You can buy the latest smartphones from these people for maybe 100 - 200 less then what you pay in the shops and they aren't flogging unwanted upgrades because they are selling tons of phones

    No wages, rent, insurance, rates, heat, light, waste charges, and the myriad of other things that go with bricks and mortar stores.


  • Options
    #98
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    wyndham wrote: »
    No wages, rent, insurance, rates, heat, light, waste charges, and the myriad of other things that go with bricks and mortar stores.

    Cant be that easy though! Sure if it was then wouldn't i be best to give up the day job. Register for vat and start trading from home?? Your always gonna make a few quid if you can sell brand new products cheaper then the shops


  • Options
    #99
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    You have to charge vat on what you sell... if you know this little about vat dont do any more fiddling attempts


  • Options
    #100
    20/20
    Registered Users Posts: 704 ✭✭✭20/20


    baalad wrote: »
    A little off topic but there is hundreds of sellers on adverts in particular that sell brand new products at cheaper then shop prices. How is this possible? Are they illegally buying them ex vat?? If they were buying new products inclusive of vat then they simply couldnt offer them for the prices they are! If assume most sellers must be buying these products ex vat in order to make a return but how can they be doing this unless they are vat registered and most of them are not in my opinion

    Do you tie up your own shoelaces in the morning.?
    You cant be serious, have you not learnt anything over two days of comments.
    Iam wondering is this just a setup and your real aim is to get enough info on how to defraud revenue.


  • Options
    #101
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    baalad wrote: »
    How are they getting away with it though?? If i wanted to sell a brand new phone for a competitive price then i would literally have to dodge the vat . Sell the item and pocket the cash! Theres no way people can do this consistently and get away with it surely?? I have seen sellers on adverts who are there years and with great feedback. You can buy the latest smartphones from these people for maybe 100 - 200 less then what you pay in the shops and they aren't flogging unwanted upgrades because they are selling tons of phones.

    Wouldnt it be easy for revenue to contact the likes of adverts and get names, i.p addresses and so forth and investigate these people? Some operate under "business names" so they appear to have shops etc yet their prices are are well below any official outlet.

    Grey imports.

    They never used vat number to purchase them. They buy them from non EU places that specialise in delivering them without being stopped by customs.

    They can't stop every package coming to the country, but providing vat number to the EU sellers makes it a lot easier for Revenue.

    It is different "business model".


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    atilladehun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/revenue-seize-423000-cigarettes-worth-e296000-at-dublin-port-1030595.html

    Harder for the dogs to smell electronics.

    People commit crimes. A more strict society may lead to more crime. Eg prohibition. It's a difficult balance.


  • Options
    #103
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    20/20 wrote: »
    Do you tie up your own shoelaces in the morning.?
    You cant be serious, have you not learnt anything over two days of comments.
    Iam wondering is this just a setup and your real aim is to get enough info on how to defraud revenue.

    Yeah you figured me out man. Iam trying to defraud revenue by posting about it on these forums whilst seeking advice to rectify the issue. I apologise if thats the perspective you got from my posts but to answer your questions. Yes i have learnt alot over the last 2 days and yes i do tie my own shoelaces believe it or not!

    Iam sure your a saint and never done something stupid in your life? Hopefully some day i can be perfect like you


  • Options
    #104
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    For those that have been helpful. I have been offered a loan to pay the amount in full. I wonder if its possible to do this so that they can generate a new invoice and refund and erase the previous one? That would also mean not having to send the item back. I shall call them tomorrow and see. Thanks once again to those that were helpful and not too hard on me! You live and learn.


  • Options
    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just keep ordering the same thing and use the same VAT number. Maybe buy a warehouse using the same VAT number. Explain to your employer that it's a long term plan. Eventually...
    Profit.


  • Options
    #106
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just keep ordering the same thing and use the same VAT number. Maybe buy a warehouse using the same VAT number. Explain to your employer that it's a long term plan. Eventually...
    Profit.


    Another dope!! Whats your problem??? I am paying for the item in full. What more do you want?

    Some of you would want to have a look in the mirror before you go judging others. Iam trying to do the right/honourable thing here and its not enough!


    Id appreciate it at this point if a moderator closed the thread before another moron takes the moral high ground. You would swear i was conning people out of thousands of euros. Get a life! I made a stupid decision. Get over it!!


  • Options
    #107
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭optogirl


    baalad wrote: »
    Another dope!! Whats your problem??? I am paying for the item in full. What more do you want?

    Some of you would want to have a look in the mirror before you go judging others. Iam trying to do the right/honourable thing here and its not enough!


    Id appreciate it at this point if a moderator closed the thread before another moron takes the moral high ground. You would swear i was conning people out of thousands of euros. Get a life! I made a stupid decision. Get over it!!

    OK Cartman.


  • Options
    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    baalad wrote: »
    A little off topic but there is hundreds of sellers on adverts in particular that sell brand new products at cheaper then shop prices. How is this possible? Are they illegally buying them ex vat?? If they were buying new products inclusive of vat then they simply couldnt offer them for the prices they are! If assume most sellers must be buying these products ex vat in order to make a return but how can they be doing this unless they are vat registered and most of them are not in my opinion
    wyndham wrote: »
    No wages, rent, insurance, rates, heat, light, waste charges, and the myriad of other things that go with bricks and mortar stores.
    baalad wrote: »
    Cant be that easy though! Sure if it was then wouldn't i be best to give up the day job. Register for vat and start trading from home?? Your always gonna make a few quid if you can sell brand new products cheaper then the shops

    When you buy from a shop you are paying for the shop as well at the item.
    Most of the folk who refer to are reputable and above board but operate high volume and low profit margin business models.


  • Options
    #109
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    baalad wrote: »
    Yeah you figured me out man. Iam trying to defraud revenue by posting about it on these forums whilst seeking advice to rectify the issue. I apologise if thats the perspective you got from my posts but to answer your questions. Yes i have learnt alot over the last 2 days and yes i do tie my own shoelaces believe it or not!

    Iam sure your a saint and never done something stupid in your life? Hopefully some day i can be perfect like you

    One last thing to learn, and this will really benefit you long term: "I am" is two words. ;)


  • Options
    #110
    eusap
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭eusap


    Some of the comments on here are scary and i really hope they are not advising companies on VAT matters..


    1. When you order from a Vendor in the EU you should provide the business name and VAT number to get the goods supplied at 0% VAT
    2. The supplier should verify the business name ordering the goods matches the VAT number. If not they should reject the order
    3. If this lines up they can supply at X value of goods at 0% VAT.
    4. The Ordering business should submit a VAT return to say goods ordered from EU supplier at x value.
    5. at the End of the year the Vendor submits a VIES return to say VAT Number X ordered X value
    6. Revenue in either countries compare this to the VAT return. If wrong it flags an Audit.


    But people should not shoot down the OP as what he has done is fraud, but the important message/black hole is it can be done without the business owners consent, and not noticed for months/years


  • Options
    #111
    vintagecosmos
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭vintagecosmos


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    You have to charge vat on what you sell... if you know this little about vat dont do any more fiddling attempts

    There are exceptions to this i.e. if you (or your business) are not required to register for VAT.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    vintagecosmos wrote: »
    There are exceptions to this i.e. if you (or your business) are not required to register for VAT.

    how can you buy something exvat if you aren't registered for vat....


  • Options
    #113
    atilladehun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    baalad wrote: »
    Another dope!! Whats your problem??? I am paying for the item in full. What more do you want?

    Some of you would want to have a look in the mirror before you go judging others. Iam trying to do the right/honourable thing here and its not enough!


    Id appreciate it at this point if a moderator closed the thread before another moron takes the moral high ground. You would swear i was conning people out of thousands of euros. Get a life! I made a stupid decision. Get over it!!

    I'd like if you kept it open and let us know what the final conclusion is with your refund/rebuy plan is vs return.

    Don't mind the slagging, be happy you made some random people laugh at their own jokes.


  • Options
    #114
    vintagecosmos
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭vintagecosmos


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    how can you buy something exvat if you aren't registered for vat....

    You can't. But if for example you are a sole trader and not registered for VAT then you don't charge VAT on your invoices.


  • Options
    #115
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    baalad wrote: »
    Some of you would want to have a look in the mirror before you go judging others. Iam trying to do the right/honourable thing here and its not enough!

    You tried to commit VAT fraud which is what pays for the frontline workers etc in this country. 99% of folk in this country don't do it. It says an awful lot about you. The fact you dragged a "friends" business into it makes it even worse. You need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and stop with the Trump like self pity.


  • Options
    #116
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    leave him off he has already cancelled the order


  • Options
    #117
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    MOD: Right guys the OP’s question has been answered let’s leave it there as the jibes back and forth are getting too much now.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement