Vat fraud??

baalad

nuckeythompson wrote: »

You will have to prove its required for work purposes which will be difficult when not paid for by the business and delivered to your home.

You will end up paying the VAT plus a fine and which afaik will prob cost you in the region of 3k and your boss will end up having his accounts looked at by revenue.
Your above post says what a ***** you are. If your boss orders stuff for himself for his personal use thats his business and Im sure he is selective in how he does it too.
Speak to your boss ASAP , otherwise contact the website and pay the VAT and insist the VAT number is removed form the sale.

Really stupid idea , maybe your just immature but you dont F*** with revenue. You will end up paying big time

Your talking as if revenue are the ****in mafia. Relax man. Theres no guarantee revenue will even pick up on this! I saved around 800 euro to be exact. Ya'd swear i was after robbing about 10 grand

baalad

Goose81 wrote: »

Ring them now and ask can it be returned for a full refund, ask can the shipping company be contacted to return the delivery before you sign for it.

I dont want to return it. Ill contact them and ask them to charge me the vat and remove the vat number from the sale if thats possible

Irishphotodesk

baalad wrote: »

I posted here to seek advice because i didn't understand how it works etc I didnt post here for help on how to avoid tax etc

Iam more the wiser now and i wont be doing it again! As i said. Nobody was murdered. I saved a few euro god forbid. Ill pay back any costs that are owed to revenue when it comes to it

I'm sorry but please stop using the "nobody was murdered" line.

It may be true that no one was murdered but ... Just because you don't see a victim doesn't mean there isn't one.

Do you take the same attitude towards shoplifting and other crimes ? Do you drive through red lights when it suits you ... But shur, nobody was murdered !

Have a Google for white collar crime and see if there was anyone murdered ? The answer is no, bit they are still crimes and many people have gone to jail and been fined.

baalad

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

I'm sorry but please stop using the "nobody was murdered" line.

It may be true that no one was murdered but ... Just because you don't see a victim doesn't mean there isn't one.

Do you take the same attitude towards shoplifting and other crimes ? Do you drive through red lights when it suits you ... But shur, nobody was murdered !

Have a Google for white collar crime and see if there was anyone murdered ? The answer is no, bit they are still crimes and many people have gone to jail and been fined.

I understand the point your making. Iam just pointing out that most people are reacting as if i have done something terrible. None of us are saints. Iam sure you all done alot worse in your lifes then avoiding vat

Goose81

baalad wrote: »

I understand the point your making. Iam just pointing out that most people are reacting as if i have done something terrible. None of us are saints. Iam sure you all done alot worse in your lifes then avoiding vat

You didn't avoid it, you evaded paying tax and you also committed fraud in the act. You don't seem too bothered though so not sure why you really asked for an opinion on it tbh

nuckeythompson

baalad wrote: »

Your talking as if revenue are the ****in mafia. Relax man. Theres no guarantee revenue will even pick up on this! I saved around 800 euro to be exact. Ya'd swear i was after robbing about 10 grand

OK so you are immature - you dont f*** with revenue because they can financially destroy you. I suggest you read www.revenue.ie and take a look at the tax default list - you will probably end up on it and with your attitude you deserve to be. Look at the VAT section .
Regarding your statement -
Of course not. Why on earth would i be liable for any wrong doings my boss has done? Iam responsible for myself not him
Your bringing revenue to his door - i would be sacking your ass if I were your boss

Risteard

Interesting to see a real world example of the "rationalisation" portion of the fraud triangle. :pac:

atilladehun

I think you're not understanding how serious revenue take this. They don't chase murderers the fine people very heavily to ensure they don't have to chase this crap in every company in the country. It's in their interest to make this not in your interest.

In the company I work for we buy a lot of small things that would seem very inconsequential like cheap electronics. When the auditor comes in we all still need to display it to them so they can verify the vat claim. I'm talking small money here. But I suppose it all adds up and paints a picture of compliance.

The record of sale is going to be available to revenue and won't match your bosses return next year. Revenue will investigate his whole business and fine him.

Cancel/return the item is the best way to fix your mistake.

[Deleted User]

What is the website? Care to share a link, OP?


Could be just a discount that they offer anyway (like Right Price Tiles and their "VAT Free Sales" kinda thing?)

Godeatsboogers

These are the people who get their cut of your pay cheque before you get yours, and you think they're going to be cool about this? Ha! Theres a chance no one will find out but if theres a large change in your bosses returns because of the non payment of this V.A.T, itll probably be investigated.

Jim2007

baalad wrote: »

I understand the point your making. Iam just pointing out that most people are reacting as if i have done something terrible. None of us are saints. Iam sure you all done alot worse in your lifes then avoiding vat[/QUOTE]


This is the same carp you regularly hear from people when they get caught and yes I have caught people - one ended up in Limerick jail.


And no most people do not go around doing crimes as you seem to think. In my experience most people are decent law abiding individuals. They also tend to have no qualms about shopping people when asked directly.


It's not just a question of telling your boss and paying the VAT and it will be fine. If it comes to the attention of the Revenue, his business will be flagged up as a doubtful one, mean everything he submits may be questioned, additional inspections etc... all costing time and money.


The Revenue are well aware of the temptation to use VAT numbers for personal gain and have techniques in place to detect this. Especially if the company in question is not a major importer.


You have committed a crime, whether you're in the clear or not remains to be seen over the next four or five years.

baalad

Ok clearly this is more serious then i originally thought so i have contacted the company and asked if its possible that i can pay the additional 700 euro in vat once i receive the product (as its already dispatched) and if they can then remove the vat number etc

I didnt realise what i was getting myself into and i apologise to anyone who thinks my attitude is wrong in relation to this. Iam trying to rectify it

baalad

Deleted User wrote: »

What is the website? Care to share a link, OP?


Could be just a discount that they offer anyway (like Right Price Tiles and their "VAT Free Sales" kinda thing?)

No they specifically ask for your vat number in order to pay for the product ex vat

baalad

Why is this so incredibly easy to do for anyone btw??? I mean literally anyone can just pop in the vat number like its a discount code and save money?? Why do some websites allow this? I personally always thought vat must be paid up front and then reclaimed later

Deagol

baalad wrote: »

additional 700 euro in vat

I saved around 800 euro to be exact.

I managed to save almost 1000 euro doing this

Which is it??

baalad

Deagol wrote: »

Which is it??

Its somewhere in the middle. I paid in pounds hence why iam not 100% but its somewhere between 700-800 in euros

Anyways iam in the process of trying to rectify this so i wont be commenting any further!

Appreciate all the comments and this was for sure an eye opener!

atilladehun

Fair play for seeing sense. It's understandable to get very excited when you think you've made a big cash saving.

It's easy because there are billions of transactions each year. Some are business to consumer and some are business to business. Making business to business transactions easy is beneficial to a country. Cashflow is really important for all businesses, big and small. Governments do things to support that. In return they expect strict compliance. If they get compliance then great, everyone benefits

If they find down the line a business has cheated they will punish severely along side repayments to ensure others don't consider it.

I'd imagine the vendor may not accept your request so don't open your package when you get it just in case. You may have to return it. What they may do is make a whole new sale full price and refund the original.

baalad

atilladehun wrote: »

Fair play for seeing sense. It's understandable to get very excited when you think you've made a big cash saving.

It's easy because there are billions of transactions each year. Some are business to consumer and some are business to business. Making business to business transactions easy is beneficial to a country. Cashflow is really important for all businesses, big and small. Governments do things to support that. In return they expect strict compliance. If they get compliance then great, everyone benefits

If they find down the line a business has cheated they will punish severely along side repayments to ensure others don't consider it.

I'd imagine the vendor may not accept your request so don't open your package when you get it just in case. You may have to return it. What they may do is make a whole new sale full price and refund the original.

Nightmare having to return it as its a big item. Ideally if i could pay the difference or pay for the item in full and then they could issue a refund maybe. Only problem is i dont have the cash to pay in full right now. Ill see what solution they can come up with.

Honestly had no idea what i was doing. Just chanced my arm and it was too hard to say no when i saw the savings. Lesson learnt

baalad

The product i ordered is a product the shop (whos vat number i used) sell. Is it possible the shop could take responsibility for the purchase and then i pay the shop inc vat?? this way i dont have to return the product etc

Is this a solution?

[Deleted User]

baalad wrote: »

The product i ordered is a product the shop (whos vat number i used) sell. Is it possible the shop could take responsibility for the purchase and then i pay the shop inc vat?? this way i dont have to return the product etc

Is this a solution?

I wouldn't say so. You'd need to bring it to your employers attention to organise a deal like that. Considering this is gross misconduct, I wouldn't expect to continue working there for long. Also I see in another thread you mention you've been temporarily laid off due to COVID. The company might not have the spare cash to bail you out.

Nigzcurran

Stop feeding/indulging this nonsense!

baalad

Fonelovin'dude wrote: »

I wouldn't say so. You'd need to bring it to your employers attention to organise a deal like that. Considering this is gross misconduct, I wouldn't expect to continue working there for long. Also I see in another thread you mention you've been temporarily laid off due to COVID. The company might not have the spare cash to bail you out.

What iam trying to say is that if he ordered the tv for the purposes of selling it to a consumer then there wouldnt be an issue so couldnt he theoretically sell it to me and i pay the vat.

Thats surely a viable solution

Car99

Paid in pounds for a TV and got the option to buy without VAT eventhough you're not a business. I dont know of any company in the UK that would give that option on a website to a random internet customer . HMRC would not approve.

baalad

Car99 wrote: »

Paid in pounds for a TV and got the option to buy without VAT eventhough you're not a business. I dont know of any company in the UK that would give that option on a website to a random internet customer . HMRC would not approve.

I was shocked by that too to be honest . I never came across a website that lets you enter the vat number as if its a discount code!

Iam up the walls stressing over it now. Stupid stupid decision! Ideally i want a solution that doesn't involve having to send it back but i may have too!

Goose81

baalad wrote: »

I was shocked by that too to be honest . I never came across a website that lets you enter the vat number as if its a discount code!

Iam up the walls stressing over it now. Stupid stupid decision! Ideally i want a solution that doesn't involve having to send it back but i may have too!

Look it's done now nothing you can do, not worth stressing yourself to bits over it.

Just do whatever you need to do to return the TV and get a full refund from them and say nothing to your boss.

If anything ever comes if it just come clean and say you returned it and there should be no issue however it's very unlikely anything will ever come of it.

Forget holding into this though just return it and order it again even if you need to take a hit on the shipping to send to back.

From experience you should be able to cancel the order and the shipping company send it back before it ever reaches you.

An Ri rua

baalad wrote: »

If iam liable for money then ill pay it. No big deal. Iam trying to rectify any wrong doing not get away with theft. I just didnt give it much thought at the time and who wouldnt want to save 1000 euro ???

Who wouldn't want to save another 4k too. You could have used the company credit card. Or raised a PO. Sure who is it hurting anyway? No one of course. All these silly rules. Sure there was no VAT when our fathers were kids.

An Ri rua

baalad wrote: »

Your talking as if revenue are the ****in mafia. Relax man. Theres no guarantee revenue will even pick up on this! I saved around 800 euro to be exact. Ya'd swear i was after robbing about 10 grand

Jes*s, you're coming across as a real fool here. Revenue will chew you up and spit you out. They're not the Mafia, they're more like the machines in the Matrix. A number of people have advised you well, particularly Goose81, but you're not listening. A friend shook a fool like you down for something similar. An amateur landlord buying a 50" TV for his tenants (decent soul) but, strangely, delivery docket said his house. Your transaction will be flagged.
Oh, and what's the harm? F*cking with VAT is what allows one small outfit destroy another on price. It's real red flag stuff. If you're messing with VAT, you're well worth an audit. You too, by the way, as an individual. Certainly an aspect query. If they hone in on you, you'd better be sure you don't flag for any other little innocent frauds. You're quacking like a duck amigo and Revenue have a peashooter for a little duck like you. You're no match for them.
Additionally, your attitude to other citizens displayed earlier is sickening. (Edit- you have the appropriate fear now).
Are you looking for help to put things right? Or comfort. You won't get comfort here for robbing. If you made a mistake, sort it. Otherwise, man up if you're so smart (posts say you're not btw).

An Ri rua

baalad wrote: »

I was shocked by that too to be honest . I never came across a website that lets you enter the vat number as if its a discount code!

Iam up the walls stressing over it now. Stupid stupid decision! Ideally i want a solution that doesn't involve having to send it back but i may have too!

You can end the stress by taking good advice from people here. Trust me, I lay awake, a night or two, years ago when I was young and stupid, and shed a tear over fear of Revenue. Got bad advice from a book-keeper. Swallowed the fine and moved on.
I wish you well, and no stress, but sort yourself out. Fraud is fraud. Worse when you know well it is.

An Ri rua

Deagol wrote: »

Which is it??

Currency fluctuations boss.

wally1990

baalad wrote: »

Your talking as if revenue are the ****in mafia. Relax man. Theres no guarantee revenue will even pick up on this! I saved around 800 euro to be exact. Ya'd swear i was after robbing about 10 grand

OP is surely trolling?