The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

Skerries · 02-09-2019 1:24pm

hear now, none of that yankee system
It's 4th October

PressRun · 02-09-2019 3:32pm

Ipso wrote: »

Usually it says more about the people making the claim, than the film.

Does it? I've seen a couple more reviews that have touched on an element of moral incoherence in the film and that it could easily be viewed through a celebratory lens. There's definitely a preoccupation with violence and male rage in American film and society in general and even if one is trying satirize such issues, satire isn't easy to pull off, especially in film. It can be hard to show why a character is attracted to violence, for example, while also emphasising the nonsense behind those ideas. There is always a danger that if it is underplayed, that it won't be actually clear who or what the film is aimed at or what it's actually trying to say.
I haven't seen the film so I can't say for sure if that's what's going on here, but there is always a danger of getting it wrong when trying to humanize the villain and filmmakers can get the balance wrong.

Edit: btw I'm not saying that films make people do bad things (not reasonable people anyway). Films, music, video games, etc are not violence and choosing to act on something you saw in a film is your own responsibility entirely. But America's borderline obsession with platforming the disaffected white guy is interesting.

02-09-2019 3:57pm

I'm just really wondering if this is not just a Falling Down remake, from what I am hearing

Drumpot · 02-09-2019 4:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just really wondering if this is not just a Falling Down remake, from what I am hearing

I would be ok with that . .

Its funny cause when you wrote that I was thinking "arent pretty much most movies these days a rehash of a story told already in some form" . .

The White Wolf · 02-09-2019 5:53pm

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/sep/02/incel-violence-joker-rightwing-film-joaquin-phoenix

Good article and pretty much what I expected was the issue in some quarters; people are seeing things that aren't there, or at the very least wrongly applying a stance to the filmmakers.

Slydice · 03-09-2019 12:34am

McDermotX wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGVQLHvwOY

Is that

Bruce Wayne, Martha Wayne and Thomas Wayne leaving a theatre

at the short moment scene at 2:11?

Are they gonna do

the Wayne murders

in this?

Jurgen The German · 03-09-2019 7:50am

I am not nor have I ever been into superhero movies, the only one I've managed to sit through is Logan and I enjoyed that so if this is similarly dark / bloody then hooray. As an aside, I'd never heard the term incel before so had to Google it, what a strange world we live in.

GBX · 03-09-2019 8:58am

Been out of the loop on superhero movies of late. Does this fit in with any timeline ?

03-09-2019 9:01am

GBX wrote: »

Been out of the loop on superhero movies of late. Does this fit in with any timeline ?

Yep, the one where there's finally going to be a quality DC movie.

pixelburp · 03-09-2019 9:13am

GBX wrote: »

Been out of the loop on superhero movies of late. Does this fit in with any timeline ?

No, it's its own movie, and own timeline. Won't have any relationship or link with any previous DC movie.

Skerries · 03-09-2019 9:14am

aww, you just jinxed it

pixelburp · 03-09-2019 9:54am

Skerries wrote: »

aww, you just jinxed it

Ha true enough; though as mentioned earlier, if this becomes a hit, I wouldn't be surprised if Todd Phillips gets petitioned to make more, or extend into this universe.

Though by the sounds & looks of it - and some of the reviews thus far - you'd struggle to insert Batman into this universe. It sounds too broken and miserable for a man to stalk the rooftops in a bat costume.

silverharp · 04-09-2019 9:15am

The trailer seems to be getting a better reaction on Youtube than Star Wars, more views, likes etc.

pixelburp · 04-09-2019 9:18am

It's a film that has absolutely nothing to lose, and arguably started its life with fandom casting a suspicious, cynical eye. It was only ever going to gain support, assuming trailers showed a sliver of vision; whereas Star Wars is a tainted brand for all sorts of reasons, be they real or imagined.

tigger123 · 04-09-2019 10:21am

silverharp wrote: »

The trailer seems to be getting a better reaction on Youtube than Star Wars, more views, likes etc.

That says more about content creators on YouTube than anything else. It's not a reliable metric.

Chris_Heilong · 04-09-2019 10:33am

tigger123 wrote: »

That says more about content creators on YouTube than anything else. It's not a reliable metric.

I would say it has a lot to do with fans being burned by The Last Jedi. If that film was universally praised then I think the new Star Wars trailer would have a lot more interest.

silverharp · 04-09-2019 10:59am

tigger123 wrote: »

That says more about content creators on YouTube than anything else. It's not a reliable metric.

sorry I meant the actual trailer, it has several million more views and a lot more upvotes

peteeeed · 04-09-2019 11:45am

is this the greatest tease ever ?
Robert pattinson asking for comments about the joker to be retracted

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/robert-pattinson-batman-crossover-joaquin-phoenix-joker-theory-1202170657/

Drumpot · 04-09-2019 4:13pm

peteeeed wrote: »

is this the greatest tease ever ?
Robert pattinson asking for comments about the joker to be retracted

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/robert-pattinson-batman-crossover-joaquin-phoenix-joker-theory-1202170657/

Let’s be optimistic and say joker is as good as we think it might be and very successful. Any chance of a proper adult, R rated , Batman movie?

It’s not that we need R rated movies to be good (like Nolan’s Batman’s) , it’s that the studio does not restrict the director (in this case presumably Phillips) from telling the best story possible. If they have already built an R rated Joker I find it a difficult transition back to a more watered down version for younger audiences.

The Late Late Show · 04-09-2019 10:44pm

Slightly confused about this film. I assume this is a sort of a prequel to the Batman films about Batman's main enemy. But how come there is a name for the Joker Arthur Fleck and a backstory about him being a failed comedian? Wasn't the Joker a gangland figure in both Batman 1989 and also The Dark Knight? He was named as Jack Napier in the former.

PTH2009 · 04-09-2019 10:59pm

God I cant wait for this movie

s8n · 05-09-2019 7:31am

PTH2009 wrote: »

God I cant wait for this movie

you are gonna have to

ricero · 05-09-2019 8:02am

No way will this movie be a stand-alone. They would be leaving too much money on the table.

05-09-2019 8:28am

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Slightly confused about this film. I assume this is a sort of a prequel to the Batman films about Batman's main enemy. But how come there is a name for the Joker Arthur Fleck and a backstory about him being a failed comedian? Wasn't the Joker a gangland figure in both Batman 1989 and also The Dark Knight? He was named as Jack Napier in the former.

Ignore 1989 barring the chemical tank (even if that is not in this on)
In Dark Knight the Joker was already fully in the persona, not an origin.

This is not a prequel to the films you have already seen.
Assuming that this story leans heavily on the One(ish) Bad Day line of thought from The Killing Joke

peteeeed · 05-09-2019 8:32am

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Slightly confused about this film. I assume this is a sort of a prequel to the Batman films about Batman's main enemy. But how come there is a name for the Joker Arthur Fleck and a backstory about him being a failed comedian? Wasn't the Joker a gangland figure in both Batman 1989 and also The Dark Knight? He was named as Jack Napier in the former.

Didn't the director say this movie would not follow anything from the comic books

pixelburp · 05-09-2019 8:35am

It'll be a standalone movie, until it isn't. And beyond the obvious caveat of the film's success in the box-office, extending the universe entirely depends on Phillips & (especially) Phoenix wanting to come back in the first place.

El Duda · 05-09-2019 9:08am

I have high hopes that Phoenix would reject being part of any kind of sequel.

This should be stand alone.

correction · 05-09-2019 10:28am

Phoneix was interested in playing Doctor Strange but wouldn't agree to the multi film deals that Marvel must have if I'm remembering correctly. If that was the case you'd assume this is a one film deal so would require him agreeing to come back which taking into account everything we know about him feels unlikely. But at the same time if they sit him down and deliver a seriously good script for introducing Batman into this world you never know.

The White Wolf · 05-09-2019 11:02am

correction wrote: »

Phoneix was interested in playing Doctor Strange but wouldn't agree to the multi film deals that Marvel must have if I'm remembering correctly. If that was the case you'd assume this is a one film deal so would require him agreeing to come back which taking into account everything we know about him feels unlikely. But at the same time if they sit him down and deliver a seriously good script for introducing Batman into this world you never know.

Not that I think he would sign up for a sequel, but the difference is that Marvel were asking him to make a multi film commitment where he would be giving up any kind of creative input and flexibility in what he could ssy no to.

In this situation however Phillips and Phoenix have the power assuming all goes well and the film is a smash. I would compare it more to how Nolan had WB by the balls in regards to coming back for TDKR.

rossie1977 · 06-09-2019 2:14pm

El Duda wrote: »

I have high hopes that Phoenix would reject being part of any kind of sequel.

This should be stand alone.

Even if he wins Oscar and its a massive success at box office?

El Duda · 06-09-2019 2:28pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Even if he wins Oscar and its a massive success at box office?

Especially if he wins an Oscar and its a massive success at box office.

Too much of a good thing never ends well.

kerplun k · 06-09-2019 4:26pm

El Duda wrote: »

I have high hopes that Phoenix would reject being part of any kind of sequel.

This should be stand alone.

Yep. I’m thinking the same. Iirc, that’s exactly the reason he turned down the Dr Strange role.

El Duda · 06-09-2019 5:23pm

We've seen how well this has been received by critics. Lots of comparisons to 70's Scorsese films etc..

Why on earth would anyone want to risk tainting this (potential) classic film by having him appear in a Justice League or Suicide Squad?

He was fantastic in the phenomenal 'You were never really here' and I don't see anyone who enjoyed that film clamouring for a sequel.

Oafley Jones · 07-09-2019 8:48am

pixelburp wrote: »

It'll be a standalone movie, until it isn't. And beyond the obvious caveat of the film's success in the box-office, extending the universe entirely depends on Phillips & (especially) Phoenix wanting to come back in the first place.

I don’t think the tone of Philip’s movie lends itself to universe building. The inherent silliness of comic book characters is a hard wall and one that Nolan quickly hit even with his “realistic” take.

johnny_ultimate · 07-09-2019 7:29pm

Well I don’t think anyone expected this. Joker just won the top prize at the immensely prestigious Venice Film Festival. The Joker himself would relish such a grenade being thrown into the film Twitter discourse (especially since a new Roman Polanski film was the runner-up :pac:).

https://twitter.com/la_biennale/status/1170402890860679169?s=21

pixelburp · 07-09-2019 8:09pm

Yowsers, the hype is truly real. WB/DC must be absolutely salivating at this stage...

Uncharted · 07-09-2019 8:16pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Yowsers, the hype is truly real. WB/DC must be absolutely salivating at this stage...

Sh1t just got real.

I really hope this is not a poisoned chalice.

pixelburp · 07-09-2019 8:33pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Sh1t just got real.

I really hope this is not a poisoned chalice.

And remember, a $50 million dollar budget. If this hype transposes into footfall, hard not to see this making an obscene profit for WB.

Ipso · 08-09-2019 1:27am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Well I don’t think anyone expected this. Joker just won the top prize at the immensely prestigious Venice Film Festival. The Joker himself would relish such a grenade being thrown into the film Twitter discourse (especially since a new Roman Polanski film was the runner-up :pac:).

https://twitter.com/la_biennale/status/1170402890860679169?s=21

He’d be even more delighted to beat a rapist to first place.

08-09-2019 1:30am

Ipso wrote: »

He’d be even more delighted to beat a rapist to first place.

From Reddit...

Not surprising that Polanski came in a little behind

Jaysus.

The White Wolf · 08-09-2019 9:36am

Philips said he couldn't please everyone with this film in his speech. Wise and calm words amidst all the backlash. I don't think awards vindicate a film but when the likes of Mary Harton, juror and director of American Psycho, is effusive in her praise of the film, it makes the outraged takes a little bit more short of room.

Amazing achievement from Philips, Phoenix and DC/WB.

Drumpot · 08-09-2019 12:28pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Philips said he couldn't please everyone with this film in his speech. Wise and calm words amidst all the backlash. I don't think awards vindicate a film but when the likes of Mary Harton, juror and director of American Psycho, is effusive in her praise of the film, it makes the outraged takes a little bit more short of room.

Amazing achievement from Philips, Phoenix and DC/WB.

Im wondering will this end up a critically acclaimed movie that maybe won’t clean up at the box office. Good/great movies don’t necessarily make good money.

Logan had established much loved characters to draw in fans. This might aswell be the first time we have seen the joker and Philips is ready for a backlash (presumably from fans) which means there could very well be a negative response to it.

As I said, I’m expecting a kind of a slog fest of a movie that’s hard to watch, but equally enthralling.

batgoat · 08-09-2019 12:52pm

Drumpot wrote: »

Im wondering will this end up a critically acclaimed movie that maybe won’t clean up at the box office. Good/great movies don’t necessarily make good money.

Logan had established much loved characters to draw in fans. This might aswell be the first time we have seen the joker and Philips is ready for a backlash (presumably from fans) which means there could very well be a negative response to it.

As I said, I’m expecting a kind of a slog fest of a movie that’s hard to watch, but equally enthralling.

Yep, this more strikes me as a Paul Thomas Anderson film but at same time I suspect it'll make a decent profit. If it does then we could be set for a series of potential very interesting low budget films around DC characters.

The White Wolf · 08-09-2019 2:09pm

Drumpot wrote: »

Im wondering will this end up a critically acclaimed movie that maybe won’t clean up at the box office. Good/great movies don’t necessarily make good money.

Logan had established much loved characters to draw in fans. This might aswell be the first time we have seen the joker and Philips is ready for a backlash (presumably from fans) which means there could very well be a negative response to it.

As I said, I’m expecting a kind of a slog fest of a movie that’s hard to watch, but equally enthralling.

The projections are meant to be looking good for its opening at the very least. Plus the fact it's the Joker, a pop culture phenomenon in the US and elsewhere, makes me think it's going to get good returns (I suspect this is why SS did better than it deserved to). Winning the GL should expand its appeal as well amongst people that otherwise wouldn't be interested.

Nothing that will break records in the BO but I'd expect it to get good returns for WB.

Gwynplaine · 08-09-2019 3:53pm

Trailer looks fantastic. Really looking forward to this. I wonder could a machine be invented that could erase any trace of that abomination of a Joker in SS. I was actually blushing watching it. So bad.

johnny_ultimate · 08-09-2019 5:23pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Winning the GL should expand its appeal as well amongst people that otherwise wouldn't be interested.

While it’s a boost to the film’s credibility, I’d say the impact of a Golden Lion win on a mid-budget comic book adaptation’s box office prospects is minimal to say the least - a few curious cinephiles are probably all you’re looking at! It’s not like a Venice win propelled A Pigeon Sat On A Branch Reflecting On Existence to box office glory

08-09-2019 5:26pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While it’s a boost to the film’s credibility, I’d say the impact of a Golden Lion win on a mid-budget comic book adaptation’s box office prospects is minimal to say the least - a few curious cinephiles are probably all you’re looking at! It’s not like a Venice win propelled A Pigeon Sat On A Branch Reflecting On Existence to box office glory

No but it WILL probably stifle some of the negative reviews you get from the wannabe highbrow critics.

The White Wolf · 08-09-2019 5:33pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While it’s a boost to the film’s credibility, I’d say the impact of a Golden Lion win on a mid-budget comic book adaptation’s box office prospects is minimal to say the least - a few curious cinephiles are probably all you’re looking at! It’s not like a Venice win propelled A Pigeon Sat On A Branch Reflecting On Existence to box office glory

We'll see... I feel like it's a perfect storm really. I never heard of the film you mentioned but then that film doesn't have a core fan base as its foundation and also cinephiles as you call them to help the word of mouth.

That's why I think it's disingenuous to claim this accolade doesn't mean much. It's unprecedented.

Man Vs ManUre · 08-09-2019 5:34pm

I watched OUATIH yesterday and DiCaprio was just marvelous in it. It will be an interesting battle for awards between him and Phoenix.

johnny_ultimate · 08-09-2019 5:47pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

That's why I think it's disingenuous to claim this accolade doesn't mean much. It's unprecedented.

It’s a significant and surprising win for sure, if not necessarily unprecedented (The Shape of Water, another mid-budget Hollywood effort, won two years ago). Absolutely noteworthy that a comic book film won an award that traditionally goes to the latest works from world cinema auteurs, especially given Todd Philips’ less than stellar record. As said, it’s a boost in credibility I’m sure all involved will be deservedly delighted with.

But I’d just be hesitant marrying it with much box office significance - this was set to be at least a hit regardless of awards or reviews, and prestige film festival awards like the Palme D’Or and Golden Lion aren’t typically the kind of things that have much resonance outside the art house circuit. Hell, even as someone who is big into world cinema the GL is typically a passing curiosity more than anything. Don’t think it’s suddenly going to change just because Joker won it

Also, don’t underestimate that there’s some keen Roy Andersson fans out there

The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

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