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AL Cadet programme

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  • Registered Users Posts: 34 directPEPOD


    @GKJK

    I didn't make it clear that when I said 25/26 I meant when he was called back by Aer Lingus. Nevertheless his age now is irrelevant, its the age that he was taken on as a cadet that matters with regard to this thread.

    Put yourself in the situation of Aer Lingus HR. There is going to be a torrent of applications to this if it goes ahead, even more so if it's (part-)sponsored. Why would you open it up to and specifically target young people if a) it's going to make more work in terms of processing apps or b) you aren't going to hire them anyways. If this is what you're suggesting then they're sure making a hash of getting the thing over with quickly..


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    basill wrote: »
    Thanks to all of the armchair experts for enlightening to us. Perhaps if you have no factual information then why bother speculating and wasting bandwidth and the time of people that might come onto these fora for information.

    As a current serving pilot lets correct some of the rubbish.

    - both pilots featured in the video are current serving. The female co-pilot joined recently under the latest recruitment drive.
    - Neither are captains.
    - AL is a seniority based and union represented airline. Any comparisons from the armchair experts to Ryanair should cease there.
    - The quickest commands have been those that have either joined as DEC into BFS or LGW or have transferred from DUB to those bases and gotten into the LHS.
    - A DUB or ORK command is on average 10-12 years at the earliest. The average age of captains now is roughly 39 years. The pension retirement age is 60 years. Expect ICAO to push this out further. It is unclear what the ramifications will be for commands in DUB and ORK as the issue is clouded somewhat not only by whether we expand but by complex issues surrounding the pension and the tax implications thereof.
    - The "normal" progression within the company is RHS on the A320 then after approximately 6-8 years shifting to the RHS of the A330. Many people decide to stay on this fleet for lifestyle reasons even though they may be eligible for command on the A320. Others jump ship at the earliest opportunity and take up a A320 command. To judge a pilots ability or rank by their "baby faces" is ludicrous.

    Thanks for bringing some sense to this thread.

    I did have my input further back in the dicussion but have just been looking on in recent weeks to see what people are saying. No one knows what the package will entail until it is announced. Everyone can speculate about cost, location of training, age but the fact is we just dont know.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭GKJK


    Jim236 wrote: »
    GKJK with all due respect, you've been contradicting yourself throughout this thread based on what "your source" has said to you.

    You're right, we don't know any details yet, but the timing of this announcement and the wording of the dialogue in the video is no coincidence. They may not be looking for people straight out of school, but I find it hard to believe they'd be looking for people who already have their PPLs, ATPLs etc with hundreds of hours as you're trying to claim.

    Actually there has been a great deal of confusion over the details both inside and outside EI.

    The old cadetships were populated by people with degrees(law, engineering etc), no doubt the odd 500-600 point wonder straight out of school and then former Air Corps pilots with THOUSANDS of hours. My neighbour is a pilot and that's how i get the advice on how things lie. The old cadet classes were 10-15 strong and the majority were Air Corps every scond year (when hitches ran out). Former cadets did have flying experiance, now there were 0-hero wonders but a fair few had hours under their belt be it ppls or illegal crop dusting..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭GKJK


    basill wrote: »
    Thanks to all of the armchair experts for enlightening to us. Perhaps if you have no factual information then why bother speculating and wasting bandwidth and the time of people that might come onto these fora for information.

    As a current serving pilot lets correct some of the rubbish.

    - both pilots featured in the video are current serving. The female co-pilot joined recently under the latest recruitment drive.
    - Neither are captains.
    - AL is a seniority based and union represented airline. Any comparisons from the armchair experts to Ryanair should cease there.
    - The quickest commands have been those that have either joined as DEC into BFS or LGW or have transferred from DUB to those bases and gotten into the LHS.
    - A DUB or ORK command is on average 10-12 years at the earliest. The average age of captains now is roughly 39 years. The pension retirement age is 60 years. Expect ICAO to push this out further. It is unclear what the ramifications will be for commands in DUB and ORK as the issue is clouded somewhat not only by whether we expand but by complex issues surrounding the pension and the tax implications thereof.
    - The "normal" progression within the company is RHS on the A320 then after approximately 6-8 years shifting to the RHS of the A330. Many people decide to stay on this fleet for lifestyle reasons even though they may be eligible for command on the A320. Others jump ship at the earliest opportunity and take up a A320 command. To judge a pilots ability or rank by their "baby faces" is ludicrous.

    I bow to you superior knowledge of the airline. But I was just stating what I have been told be it right or wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭No.username


    Im 1000% sure that video is recent. The walk around was carried out on stand 410 (terminal 2) The escalator the 2 first officers were on is one of the 3 link bridges escalators linkin the international departure lounge to the pier. Look out the window when Diarmuid is being interviewed, ever see airbridges all in a row anywhere else other than T2?? He was being interviewed in the EI exec lounge. The card access readers in T1 are black, in T2 they are silver, what colour reader did Claire swipe to get into the crew briefing room corridor??? But then again its probably all just a camera trick ;)

    For anyone genuinely interested in the cadetship i have been told that its worth while buying the papers this weekend ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    Without doubt that video is recent, there's too many signs of T2!
    I would also probably keep an eye here -> http://www.aerlingus.com/aboutus/careersvacancies/#d.en.956
    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Mitch Buchannon


    Aer Lingus is delighted to announce a new Cadet Pilot Training Programme. The programme will be officially launched via national press advertisements and the Aer Lingus website on Sunday 31st July.

    The Cadet Pilot Training Programme, which will be part funded by Aer Lingus, is an exceptional opportunity for individuals to train and qualify as a commercial pilot on the Airbus A320 fleet of aircraft.

    The training programme, due to commence between late 2011 and early 2012, takes 14 months to complete and consists of a number of phases combining classroom and simulator based training. Upon successful completion, Cadets receive an Airline Transport Pilots Licence and Multi Engine Instrument Rating before undergoing Airbus A320 type training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    Where did this come from?


  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Mitch Buchannon


    Jocry wrote: »
    Where did this come from?

    Internal staff communication - thats all im saying about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    Cheers, just seen the same on Pprune.
    Finally some hard evidence.
    I look forward to Sundays papers!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    the applications for this will be massive but isnt the elephant in the room that you will have to pony up plenty of wedge possibly 6 figures to pay for it if you are successful.
    surely AL are not going to pay everyones course in full.
    most of the country dont have a pot to piss in so essentially you have to be rich in the first place to apply for this because the banks are lending shag all.

    or am i being crass?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    Told ya.......best of luck to one and all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    the applications for this will be massive but isnt the elephant in the room that you will have to pony up plenty of wedge possibly 6 figures to pay for it if you are successful.
    surely AL are not going to pay everyones course in full.
    most of the country dont have a pot to piss in so essentially you have to be rich in the first place to apply for this because the banks are lending shag all.

    or am i being crass?

    I highly doubt it will be a 6 figure amount given they've said it will be part funded but I dont see it coming cheap either.

    I wonder if they've considered returning to WMU in the states given the reasons behind launching the scheme (i.e. in part they're not overly happy with the level of training that some schools around Europe are providing) and they also have previous history with them :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭MoeJay


    Aer Lingus is delighted to announce a new Cadet Pilot Training Programme. The programme will be officially launched via national press advertisements and the Aer Lingus website on Sunday 31st July.



    The Cadet Pilot Training Programme, which will be part funded by Aer Lingus, is an exceptional opportunity for individuals to train and qualify as a commercial pilot on the Airbus A320 fleet of aircraft.



    The training programme, due to commence between late 2011 and early 2012, takes 14 months to complete and consists of a number of phases combining classroom and simulator based training. Upon successful completion, Cadets receive an Airline Transport Pilots Licence and Multi Engine Instrument Rating before undergoing Airbus A320 type training.



    Christoph Mueller said “We are delighted to be launching the Cadet Pilot Programme within Aer Lingus. Many of our current pilots began their careers from such a programme and it is something that we successfully ran in previous years. This is a fantastic opportunity for a prospective pilot to undergo their training with the support and commitment of an airline that has an international reputation for quality and excellence.”



    If you are interested in applying, all applications must be received via the online application process on aerlingus.com, where you can also view a video containing a brief insight into the training programme. Please note: an Aer Lingus email address cannot be used when applying online.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭GKJK


    Jocry wrote: »
    I highly doubt it will be a 6 figure amount given they've said it will be part funded but I dont see it coming cheap either.

    I wonder if they've considered returning to WMU in the states given the reasons behind launching the scheme (i.e. in part they're not overly happy with the level of training that some schools around Europe are providing) and they also have previous history with them :confused:

    Dont many of the large integrated schools round europe use US based training schools?...like PTC use FIT?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    I think the one big thing AL will be looking for apart from the individuals ticking all the required boxes is continuity of service. Over the years they have trained many direct entry pilots to see them bugger off to either their homelands or a juicier perceived airline. from this perspective and the realization that you can't even get a car loan from a bank these days without stapling ones self to a cross.......AL I reckon accept folks don't have 100k up front as against the boom years but will require a minimum length of service with a punitive bond structure attached. From their perspective Cadets have been very loyal re remaining in situ and I think that's what they will be looking for this time around


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Hi 5


    So people, wise or otherwise.....HONESTLY what is "too old" to try your luck with this process!?! :eek:

    aptitude tests will be AWESOME i guess to seperate the Men from Boys!!!!

    ps ....and Ladies :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭alan85


    Hi 5 wrote: »
    So people, wise or otherwise.....HONESTLY what is "too old" to try your luck with this process!?! :eek:

    aptitude tests will be AWESOME i guess to seperate the Men from Boys!!!!

    ps ....and Ladies :rolleyes:
    If it's part-funded I would say late twenties/30...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    I have to say I'm surprised AL is setting up something like this again. It's not like there is a shortage of pilots coming through from outside training schools or the prospect of any major expansion within AL (that we know of).
    I know of a couple guys who are quite brainy and knew their stuff but didn't get past the AL assessments. Another guy I knew did get in but after he was accepted into Aer Arann which was odd I thought.

    Anyway I'll be interested in seeing what the figure for the cost is. I'd say it will still be quite high but good luck to all those who will consider applying!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Hi 5


    got any idea whats "part-funded" in this current climate!?!

    yeah i know...Patience is a Virtue!!!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Hi 5


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    I have to say I'm surprised AL is setting up something like this again. It's not like there is a shortage of pilots coming through from outside training schools or the prospect of any major expansion within AL (that we know of).
    I know of a couple guys who are quite brainy and knew their stuff but didn't get past the AL assessments. Another guy I knew did get in but after he was accepted into Aer Arann which was odd I thought.

    Anyway I'll be interested in seeing what the figure for the cost is. I'd say it will still be quite high but good luck to all those who will consider applying!

    Interesting how they 'sell' us the package considering there ARE guys desperate out there with 250+Hrs ONLY!?!?! :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭el tel


    That video is recent. The SFO who featured in the video was in the class of Aer Lingus cadets behind mine in 1998. He was really young when he joined, he even had braces at the time! But he was not the youngest, another cadet was 17.

    I still have all the material from the selection and interview process - after each round I got home and wrote everything down that I could remember. I would like to think that my notes helped a few people get selected later, but I'm sure they would have made it anyway, even though they were in the group that were chopped in Jerez.

    As far as I recall, I think that following my group, where all the selection rounds were carried out by Aer Lingus in-house, the initial screening selection of subsequent cadet intakes was done by an agency.

    It is quite surprising how many cadets weren't to overly obsessed about becoming a pilot, many in fact just saw the ad in the paper and decided to give it a go. On the other hand, for others, including myself it was the culmination of years of dreaming! One colleague, quite famously amongst fellow cadets, was advised at his first interview that he should go home and "read a copy of the Penguin book of airplanes". That advice seemed to work anyhow.

    Regarding the psychological assessment it is important that you answer the questions honestly, and not how you think a pilot would answer them. In Aer Lingus the pilots are generally not a homogenous bunch of personalities (unlike some of the 'Nigels' of another flag-carrier ;):p) but are very different, interesting* people. Everyone is interviewed by a shrink anyway, so all's cool.

    Of the cadets in my group, the age range was 17-25 or 26. I was 21. Most had degrees, some had quit university to join the company, and one had left school before completing final year to join. Degree subject wise it was a mix - Engineering (Mech, Elec, Aero), Science, and Arts. Everyone was Irish (North and South), except one, from Ecosse.

    Quite a few of us had failed to be selected at previous recruitment rounds, but perservered and got in at the second or third attempt. Willie Walsh was involved in the interviews which were great fun, with some very interesting 'what would you do if..?' questions being fielded. Any time he asked me one of these in relation to a aircraft scenario I answered "whatever the operations manual says I should do" :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Hi 5


    hi EL TEL....

    any chance of a guy in his 30's getting in???

    with a tiny bit of flying behind him....

    ps go easy on my feelings!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    Hi5, think u might miss the bus re your age profile. If your not in though you can't win. Besta luck.

    ElTel, not a good idea putting actually names on forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭IrishB.ie


    Bearcat wrote: »
    ElTel, not a good idea putting actually names on forum.

    I guess you didn't watch the video then. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 42 aviteire


    PPJN ;

    New Direct Entry F/O Base Salary rate is €54,700.

    Cadet Salary E41,500 for 2 years !!!!

    My estimation is cadet will have to pay around 75% of the initial training costs and shamrock will pay for the other 25% just going by the salary figures from above but I rekon its a good guess!!

    Goodluck to all that apply

    p.s a quick search on the old google!! I had to dig as deep as page 3 to read an irish new paper atricle from 31/5/11..It was long but the main point in it mentioned "a new cadet scheme with oxford aviation academy"!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    aviteire wrote: »
    PPJN ;

    New Direct Entry F/O Base Salary rate is €54,700.

    Cadet Salary E41,500 for 2 years !!!!

    My estimation is cadet will have to pay around 75% of the initial training costs and shamrock will pay for the other 25% just going by the salary figures from above but I rekon its a good guess!!

    Goodluck to all that apply

    p.s a quick search on the old google!! I had to dig as deep as page 3 to read an irish new paper atricle from 31/5/11..It was long but the main point in it mentioned "a new cadet scheme with oxford aviation academy"!

    I wouldn't take much from that PPJN entry to be honest. It's dated 14th of may and even though for PPJN that's quite recent(:pac:) I couldn't see it being relevant to the current scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭one4one


    I know this might be a dumb question,

    but when it comes to medicals to be come a commercial pilot do you need perfect eyesight or can you wear glasses or contacts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    one4one wrote: »
    I know this might be a dumb question,

    but when it comes to medicals to be come a commercial pilot do you need perfect eyesight or can you wear glasses or contacts?

    It's not quite as simple as that. Yes you can wear glasses and many do. There are other factors though.

    Here's the CAA standards for eyesight on a class 1 medical. As far as I know it is almost identical to the Irish equivalent.

    http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED_JAR_C1_Initial_Visual_Stds(December2010).pdf


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  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    I thought maybe contacts were frowned upon as if you lose one on the deck floor you could lose it and contamination etc,glasses much easier to find!!!!


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