AL Cadet programme

Delta Kilo

Is it just me or does there seem to be a lot of opt out clauses for AL in it, especially worrying when you will likely be paying the thicker end of the €100,000!

Phrases such as:

"The timing of these courses will be subject to pilot crewing demands."

and

"could be the starting point for a rewarding career with Aer Lingus"

These are just two examples and it leaves it open for Aer Lingus to furlough you once you complete the training as either they cut back more or operational demands change...

Is this normal incase AL discovers it invested in a lemon after they chose you or to prepare for the unexpected?

Is it a very real prospect to find yourself out on your ear after completing the training or are AL more than likely going to continue your training and have you on the roster?

Any thoughts?

GKJK

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Is it just me or does there seem to be a lot of opt out clauses for AL in it, especially worrying when you will likely be paying the thicker end of the €100,000!

Phrases such as:

"The timing of these courses will be subject to pilot crewing demands."

and

"could be the starting point for a rewarding career with Aer Lingus"

These are just two examples and it leaves it open for Aer Lingus to furlough you once you complete the training as either they cut back more or operational demands change...

Is this normal incase AL discovers it invested in a lemon after they chose you or to prepare for the unexpected?

Is it a very real prospect to find yourself out on your ear after completing the training or are AL more than likely going to continue your training and have you on the roster?

Any thoughts?

In recent times when such a situation has arisen EI have put the cadet overflow in a hold pool and picked people out as needed. Classic example are the 2000/2001 class who were mothballed after 9/11 having completed training but were taken back on round 2004/2005. In any case you will have a fATPL you didnt have before you started and it will have most likely costed you less that the usual integrated route!

EI will of course cover their back just incase you get to Oxford of Jerez or wherever and prove to be a complete disaster in the air and cant hold 90 degrees either side of a heading! They are hardly going to say "you WILL have a career with us" because nobody can see any futher than today, you could be hit by lightening half way though the course! It seems as if they are saying "we will give you a chance and do our best to aid you in becoming a pilot within these limits....the rest is up to you" People cannot forget that the lucky few will have OCEANS of book work and study to do in the 1st 9 months from a stack of books about 3-4 feet high!! any romantic notion of flying should be put to the back of the mind. They maybe be thrown the odd flight during the groundschool phase but they will be worked hard! I hope to be one of the few so I dont want to sound too high and mighty, but unles you're prepared to work you pre-verbials off EI cannot go making promises to you!

handsomecake

once again i mention the elephant in the room. they say 100 k and we have to pay some of it. im guessing we pay the better half so 50k plus ( very conservative guess). where in the name of jaysis is the candidate to get that money. you cant get a loan for a holiday to ibiza these days.


hope some of my relatives die and leave me some wedge (and soon).

lifehacker

handsomecake wrote: »

once again i mention the elephant in the room. they say 100 k and we have to pay some of it. im guessing we pay the better half so 50k plus ( very conservative guess). where in the name of jaysis is the candidate to get that money. you cant get a loan for a holiday to ibiza these days.


hope some of my relatives die and leave me some wedge (and soon).

haha if only!:rolleyes:

Im astonished at these figures, I was rather positively thinking 15,000 - 20,000 for the cadet ship. This is not realistic in this current state of affairs

bladeruner

lifehacker wrote: »

handsomecake wrote: »

once again i mention the elephant in the room. they say 100 k and we have to pay some of it. im guessing we pay the better half so 50k plus ( very conservative guess). where in the name of jaysis is the candidate to get that money. you cant get a loan for a holiday to ibiza these days.


hope some of my relatives die and leave me some wedge (and soon).

haha if only!:rolleyes:

Im astonished at these figures, I was rather positively thinking 15,000 - 20,000 for the cadet ship. This is not realistic in this current state of affairs

We won't know what the amount is until more details are released so we may as well put the speculation to bed.
It could be high low or in between, we don't know, no point getting worked up about it.

Eire celticbhoy

It says you need two higher level C s in the leaving cert.I never got that in mine so does that mean i shouldnt even bother applying .

Dystophia

Eire celticbhoy wrote: »

It says you need two higher level C s in the leaving cert.I never got that in mine so does that mean i shouldnt even bother applying .

Do they mean two higher level C's on your final exam or as an average score during the whole year?

Jim236

Dystophia wrote: »

Do they mean two higher level C's on your final exam or as an average score during the whole year?

You only get 1 final grade in Ireland.

Delancey

It is known that candidates have to part-fund their training but I strongly suspect that Aer Lingus will demand documentary proof of a persons ability to do just that.

GKJK

Dystophia wrote: »

In my country we get 2 exams a year. Obviously one of them is considered as the final exam, but it's not the only score that matters. It's done by a calculation based on your exams in the first half year and the grades achieved during the year on a daily basis (such as tests and random assignments).

Thats why I'm kinda confused about the whole "Do I qualify?" hassle as it's quite hard to tell as I'm not an Irish student. Do my final exam grades count or the average grade? I have absolutely no idea

A problem that often crops up in Ireland for students coming to our Universities(mostly students from the US) is that their school results are muck in the eyes of the Dept Of Ed here. The US SAT system doesnt even start to compare with the academic standard of Ireland(which is quite high by international standards) and the same can be said for several countries around the world. Now countries like France with the Bac and Germany have high standards, GCSE students get caught out depending on what they studied sometimes. My opinion would be that an EU student who avveraged above a C in the required subjects is in the clear. However if you didnt achieve this it looks like to will not meet the minimum standard and you will be knocked out in round 1(as seen in "you must have achieved a grad C or higher).

On the financial front I was under the impression or had least heard suggestions that EI would aid the student in getting a loan by basically telling the bank what it was for and supplying proof that the cadet would earn X amount when they were qualified. EI would in effect "guarantee" the loan. I had heard that they were in talks with banks over their willingness to go along with this..? Perhaps I heard wrong or the person who told me was ill-informed. Granted however even if this were true I suppose if the cadet had a 600k morgage round his neck it may have to be looked at by the bank as to how viable the whole thing was for him/them in the long run.

I have a question. Are the cadets paid a modest wage by EI while they train for day to day living expenses? Or is that just a rumour?

searescue

xflyer wrote: »

Referees? I remember having the same problem. When you're quite young not long out of school the only people you deal with are the same age as you and you wouldn't any of those jokers near a potential employer.

In the past it was often a school teacher or the local priest who provided the reference. I think the priest option is gone but a teacher is still a strong candidate assuming you weren't a little brat in school.

But my suggestion is to explore the possibility of a family friend of your parents being put forward. My Father was friends with a former army Commandant who of course knew me. Sadly he was never required to provide the reference. Do a bit of lateral thinking you would be surprised who you can unearth.

Incidentally, I'm available and open to bribery;) The last person I gave a reference to got into Ryanair. Hmmm, maybe not something you want to mention!:P

Scienceless, you might as well apply and indeed you may very well get through some stages. Aer Lingus cannot discriminate on age. But I really think you chances are about the same as getting onto the Space Shuttle program. If you had a PPL the chances might have been better.

You looking at applying for it?

thecornflake

Delancey wrote: »

It is known that candidates have to part-fund their training but I strongly suspect that Aer Lingus will demand documentary proof of a persons ability to do just that.

If they invest that much capital in a person on training perhaps the logical way of paying your share would be for them to take it back out of your pay once you are flying, thus ensuring you stay with the airline and not take the cheap training and go off somewhere else.

handsomecake

GKJK wrote: »

I have a question. Are the cadets paid a modest wage by EI while they train for day to day living expenses? Or is that just a rumour?

thats another thing id like to know. its one thing coming up with the money for the cadetship,but having the money to stay alive for the 14 months is another issue altogether.
is the 41000 for an f/o starting off true too?and how long does that last for? id have to take a hefty pay cut too if that is the case.

would being an aircraft engineer stand to me? incidentally i am type rated on the 320

directPEPOD

Unfortunately I think not - they are looking for fresh people to mould in with little to no flying experience to train themselves. If you have 320 time you probably should have applied for the Direct Entry positions rather than a cadetship..

handsomecake

directPEPOD wrote: »

Unfortunately I think not - they are looking for fresh people to mould in with little to no flying experience to train themselves. If you have 320 time you probably should have applied for the Direct Entry positions rather than a cadetship..

you misread me. im a b1 aircraft engineer. i have a b1 320 type rating. i fix them , i dont fly them.i have no flying experience.

directPEPOD

Ah OK.. Not really sure on that one. Time spent up close with the 320 is a plus so it really depends on your age bracket I guess.

handsomecake

directPEPOD wrote: »

Ah OK.. Not really sure on that one. Time spent up close with the 320 is a plus so it really depends on your age bracket I guess.

im 26.

directPEPOD

Slightly outside the age range but with A320 experience.. Possibility definitely :cool:

GKJK

Certainly any sort of aviation related experiance is a plus rather than a negative. I thought It was interesting that they asked about previous experiance and for your hours. I have a PPL and 61.5 hours. The idea EI want fresh people is true but the idea that these people should have "little or no experiance" is not. In my opinion it is neither a plus or minus in the long run, however if you have experiance atleast they know you have the foundations. I dont only say this because it applies to me but getting a modular PPL shows that you are commited to flying and that you are capable and that will be attractive to an airline in it's own right. I think that they will want to see some sort of move toward wanting to fly and would expect applicants to have a few hours at least.

As it is integrated "bad habits" will not really be an issue because you will undergo the same training as everyone else, but you will have a head start in relation to the flying and the theory end. This could save money in the hour building for CPL for both the cadet and EI too.

handsomecake

directPEPOD wrote: »

Slightly outside the age range but with A320 experience.. Possibility definitely :cool:

they didnt mention an age range

GKJK

handsomecake wrote: »

they didnt mention an age range

Because legally they cant. That's ageism. But they will want a guy that will give them 20-30 years service ideally. I'd say 30 is the age ceiling at highest but I could be wrong.

handsomecake

GKJK wrote: »

Because legally they cant. That's ageism. But they will want a guy that will give them 20-30 years service ideally. I'd say 30 is the age ceiling at highest but I could be wrong.

so why is your man saying im too old at 26

Jammyc

handsomecake wrote: »

so why is your man saying im too old at 26

The reality is that nobody on this thread can say for sure about an age range. Everything about ages that you've been told is speculation and are people's guesses. I'm not saying that anybody is wrong, most people on here are pretty well informed on a lot of those things, but don't take anything here as bible. Unless you hear an age limit/range from Aer Lingus themselves, then its up to you whether you think you're too old to apply. As I said, its people's informed guesses based on opinion and information on previous cadetships etc.

GKJK

handsomecake wrote: »

so why is your man saying im too old at 26

It's his opinion. Mine would be that 30 would be the limit. That isnt based on anything apart from a guess..as most EI pilots retire round 60, but that may be increased soon...ideally I would guess EI want the cadets to be young enough to rise to the seniority of Capt but will most likely also want 20-30 years out of you.

directPEPOD

Yer man never said you were too old and never did I say that you didn't have a bat in hells chance. I was saying that because its based on what 'el tel' posted about previous cadet classes which is the best information we have at the moment to answer your question - which is I'm sure why you asked it. GKJK rightly says that Aer Lingus cannot legally impose an age restriction but this is true of most cadetships these days as they want as much service from trainees as possible.

Jammy has the right idea that if you want it, apply and see what happens. Gotta be in it to win it.

GKJK

directPEPOD wrote: »

. I was saying that because its based on what 'el tel' posted about previous cadet classes which is the best information we have at the moment to answer your question

el tel gave good info, however I know for a fact that number of guys were taken on in the late 90s after 10 or so years in the Air Corps. Now granted they had 1000s of hours and as many were officers they had command qualifications but they were in their late 20s-early 30s!

directPEPOD

Of course there are extenuating circumstances for folks with additional qualifications hence why I gave Handsome encouragement on his experience with the Airbus. 17-25 is probably a good base range but with some flying time or other aviation links this would become less restrictive.

GKJK

directPEPOD wrote: »

Of course there are extenuating circumstances for folks with additional qualifications hence why I gave Handsome encouragement on his experience with the Airbus. 17-25 is probably a good base range but with some flying time or other aviation links this would become less restrictive.

well a raw guy i'd guess 18-25(they said 18 on or before jan 2011 on the application). However they take DE guys in their late 20s and even 30s so there is always hope based on that

A320

handsomecake wrote: »

you misread me. im a b1 aircraft engineer. i have a b1 320 type rating. i fix them , i dont fly them.i have no flying experience.

It might suit a conehead more,plenty of experience sitting in the cockpit playing

Tenger

GKJK wrote: »

On the financial front I was under the impression or had least heard suggestions that EI would aid the student in getting a loan ..................Perhaps I heard wrong or the person who told me was ill-informed.

The EI arranging the loan sounds like a logical system. The cadet is still liable for the cost but EI arranges a system where the cadet is granted the loan, it is then their responsibility to repay the bank and company.

I would assume that any candidates who get through the many tests/interviews will be informed of any salary during training.

I second the idea that EI have phrased the program application to give them the ability to get rid of you if you 'turn out to be a lemon'.