How Bout Dem Bears?

Oat23 · 03-01-2014 8:02pm

A guy from 670 the score has a source saying these are the Cutler cap hits, not the ones from Florio at PFT.

14: 11.8
’15: 15.3
’16: 16.8
’17: 18.3
’18: 18.8
’19: 22
’20: 23

I guess nobody is really sure yet, but I'm going to trust Florio at PFT. If the above ones are correct, then things are looking a lot brighter for right now. I would still prefer to take the $22.5m hit this year, pay him the $54m in the first 3 years and then have the option to cut him loose any year after that with no dead money hit.

Too many numbers, my head hurts

alaimacerc · 04-01-2014 11:50pm

Crazy money for Cutler. I was hoping at least the two QB situation might give the team some more negotiating leverage. He's a decent player, but is he really value-for-money giving the number of other needful things.

Packers game was a real heartbreaker. Followed the latter stages on NFL.com... until it froze up, at the key moment. And that 'fumblerooskie' play was ludicrous.

padraig_f · 06-01-2014 3:26pm

I thought the McCown/rookie option was a viable alternative, but watching the wildcard games at the weekend with Dalton, Foles etc., I'm reminded it's not that hard to reach to the playoffs with an average QB, and it's a different thing to win in the playoffs.

To win in the playoffs, to beat the better teams, you really need your QB to make big plays. Foles didn't play badly, but wasn't a real difference-maker, Dalton obviously had a disaster and someone's losing their job there (whether it's head-coach, OC or Dalton himself). Even Kaepernick wasn't convincing passing the ball...16-30, 1 int, and lucky not to throw one or two more. He beat the Packers with his feet, but you probably won't be able to do that against every team.

I think the 49ers are capable of winning the Super Bowl, but interesting to see if Kaepernick's limitations in the pocket come against them at some stage.

Andrew Luck played well, but he's a special case, biggest cant-miss prospect in years and #1 pick, which the Bears didn't have.

Just interesting to see how it plays out this year, 3 elite QBs left (plus Rivers, who's probably more in the Cutler mould), and 4 younger QBs with arguably more help around them.

adrian522 · 06-01-2014 3:38pm

padraig_f wrote: »

I think the 49ers are capable of winning the Super Bowl, but interesting to see if Kaepernick's limitations in the pocket come against them at some stage.

I think he is capable of making all the throws and making good decisions. His problem is in going through his reads when his first and second options are covered.

I think that improve in time to be honest.

He still has a tendency to make 1 or 2 bad throws per game, seemed to have that sorted out over the last 6 games but back with a vengeance yesterday.

kennyb3 · 06-01-2014 4:46pm

padraig_f wrote: »

I thought the McCown/rookie option was a viable alternative, but watching the wildcard games at the weekend with Dalton, Foles etc., I'm reminded it's not that hard to reach to the playoffs with an average QB, and it's a different thing to win in the playoffs.

To win in the playoffs, to beat the better teams, you really need your QB to make big plays. Foles didn't play badly, but wasn't a real difference-maker, Dalton obviously had a disaster and someone's losing their job there (whether it's head-coach, OC or Dalton himself). Even Kaepernick wasn't convincing passing the ball...16-30, 1 int, and lucky not to throw one or two more. He beat the Packers with his feet, but you probably won't be able to do that against every team.

I think the 49ers are capable of winning the Super Bowl, but interesting to see if Kaepernick's limitations in the pocket come against them at some stage.

Andrew Luck played well, but he's a special case, biggest cant-miss prospect in years and #1 pick, which the Bears didn't have.

Just interesting to see how it plays out this year, 3 elite QBs left (plus Rivers, who's probably more in the Cutler mould), and 4 younger QBs with arguably more help around them.

Problem is you have to make a playoff to win them. Probably on a regular basis too to gain that 'experience'. Something we can't do.

Foles did most things that the systems asks of him and played well imho, Kap won the game (with legs or not - your legs are there to help as a weapon and shouldn't be seen as a negative - this will likely be the case for any young drafted QB anyway - and he beat many a team this year and last with those legs) and he led his team to a superbowl last year so really can't see that your point stands. Obviously as he matures he ll become a better pocket passer and run less. He still came in last year as a 2nd year QB and brought them forward from Alex Smith.

And Alex Smith - not a bad game for a $9m QB eh?

Only Dalton let his side down.

SameOleJay · 06-01-2014 5:01pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

Problem is you have to make a playoff to win them. Probably on a regular basis too to gain that 'experience'. Something we can't do.

Foles did most things that the systems asks of him and played well imho, Kap won the game (with legs or not - your legs are there to help as a weapon and shouldn't be seen as a negative - this will likely be the case for any young drafted QB anyway - and he beat many a team this year and last with those legs) and he led his team to a superbowl last year so really can't see that your point stands. Obviously as he matures he ll become a better pocket passer and run less. He still came in last year as a 2nd year QB and brought them forward from Alex Smith.

And Alex Smith - not a bad game for a $9m QB eh?

Only Dalton let his side down.

I was fairly underwhelmed by Kaep last night. He is blessed with talent all round and has a huge D to back him up too- the 9ers should have won that game comfortably.

Anyway that’s not the point- where is the Kaepernick, Luck or Wilson in this year’s draft bearing in mind our position? Where is the 9million option in free agency who can take us through? I would hope to god Emery and Trestman covered all bases before throwing that deal Cutler’s way and I’m fairly confident they did.

Someone mentioned the home town deal we were promised and it pis5es me off that it was total nonsense all along but, given that, I really don’t think we had much choice here.

SameOleJay · 06-01-2014 5:06pm

Check this out from PFF.

Overall the Bears defensive grade was -186.4, 2nd worst was -94.4.

The team run defense grade was -135.2, 2nd worst was -66.8.

We had the last ranked player in run defense at end (Mcclellin), LB (anderson), and the last 2 ranked safeties (Conte, Wright)

It is miraculous we won 8 games.

kennyb3 · 06-01-2014 5:18pm

SameOleJay wrote: »

I was fairly underwhelmed by Kaep last night. He is blessed with talent all round and has a huge D to back him up too- the 9ers should have won that game comfortably.

Of course he is/does - as the cap is properly spread around - that's kind of my point.

They were able to go get Boldin, Phil Dawson and Glenn Dorsey and extend Anthony Davis and Justin Smith.

I don't mind having no real defence (see Rodgers) no class receivers (see Brady)if we have an actual elite QB but we don't.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Anyway that’s not the point- where is the Kaepernick, Luck or Wilson in this year’s draft bearing in mind our position? Where is the 9million option in free agency who can take us through? I would hope to god Emery and Trestman covered all bases before throwing that deal Cutler’s way and I’m fairly confident they did.

As I've said give me Josh for a year maybe a year and half - as we are going to spend a year (at least) rebuilding this defence (unless people realistically think a bunch of 1st year draft picks are going to transform things as we don't have the cap space for more than re-signings and one mid to high class FA acquisition) draft a QB (this is where Trestman comes in but I believe Emery is very high on Jimmy garoppolo who looks a good fit (good pocket passer, decent arm) to me but needs refinement).

The reason so many get frightened by drafting in this day in age is because with the NFL being win now the Jaguars, Browns, Bills draft raw QB's early and fire them in from day one rather than let them develop which is quite frankly a joke imho. That's not what I'm suggesting.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Someone mentioned the home town deal we were promised and it pis5es me off that it was total nonsense all along but, given that, I really don’t think we had much choice here.

That was me - anyone who thinks this isn't about money for Cutler is deluded, he could have easily have took $15m per annum lived very comfortably and given us a better chance of the playoffs (this would have effectively bought the team an extra player). I honestly can't believe we caved so quickly. Where was the bargaining - surely they didn't bargain him down from $20m p.a? Because if he asked for that they should have laughed him out of the building. So if he asked for $18m how come it never came in at $15/16m?

adrian522 · 06-01-2014 5:25pm

It helps teams like Seattle and ourselves (San Francisco) that the cap hit for the QB is currently around $1.6m

When those contracts get re-done expect a lot of guys to leave due to not having the cap space to re-sign them.

SameOleJay · 06-01-2014 5:35pm

Double.

SameOleJay · 06-01-2014 5:36pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

Of course he is/does - as the cap is properly spread around - that's kind of my point.

They were able to go get Boldin, Phil Dawson and Glenn Dorsey and extend Anthony Davis and Justin Smith.

I don't mind having no real defence (see Rodgers) no class receivers (see Brady)if we have an actual elite QB but we don't.

As I've said give me Josh for a year maybe a year and half - as we are going to spend a year (at least) rebuilding this defence (unless people realistically think a bunch of 1st year draft picks are going to transform things as we don't have the cap space for more than re-signings and one mid to high class FA acquisition) draft a QB (this is where Trestman comes in but I believe Emery is very high on Jimmy garoppolo who looks a good fit (good pocket passer, decent arm) to me but needs refinement).

The reason so many get frightened by drafting in this day in age is because with the NFL being win now the Jaguars, Browns, Bills draft raw QB's early and fire them in from day one rather than let them develop which is quite frankly a joke imho. That's not what I'm suggesting.

That was me - anyone who thinks this isn't about money for Cutler is deluded, he could have easily have took $15m per annum lived very comfortably and given us a better chance of the playoffs (this would have effectively bought the team an extra player). I honestly can't believe we caved so quickly. Where was the bargaining - surely they didn't bargain him down from $20m p.a? Because if he asked for that they should have laughed him out of the building. So if he asked for $18m how come it never came in at $15/16m?

I’m not sold on this. Pin our hopes on a 35 year old (recently expressing doubts on his commitments to the game) for 1-2 years while moulding a late 1st rounder. Then throw him in for a year and pay him big in year 3 if he comes good? And if not it’s back at square one anyway.

I think either option is fraught with dangers if I’m honest.

Spongey1975 · 06-01-2014 5:54pm

I remember last year going into free agency we were tight against the cap and our offense needing plenty of help and Emery transformed the offense into what it is now. We went from the 28th best offense in yards per game and the 16th best offense in points per game in 2012 to the 8th best offense in yards per game and the 2nd best offense in points per game in 2013. There is no reason why that level cant be reproduced in 2014.

Now this time around we are once again tight against the cap and need a lot of help on the defensive side of the ball. I, for one, trust Emery to once again do his thing and get the players in to improve us from the 3rd worst defense in yards per game and 2nd worst defense in points per game. An improvement to mid table in those rankings and there is no reason we cant contend

kennyb3 · 06-01-2014 5:58pm

SameOleJay wrote: »

I’m not sold on this. Pin our hopes on a 35 year old (recently expressing doubts on his commitments to the game) for 1-2 years while moulding a late 1st rounder.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying (again). Meanwhile we can re-sign Wotton, Ratliff, Melton, Bowman, sign Micheal Bennett/Michael Johnson (actually both as we can afford Bennett even with Cutler's contract), Arthur Jones, Darius Bryd, Kendrick Lewis and a whole raft of other players (A viable 2nd tight end too) as we've no cutler or Peppers salary. We can then let our draft picks develop naturally rather than chuck them in, in year one to be ripped apart (possibly never to recover) - see Bostic & Greene.

I think we can win now under this approach - I think given the line, receivers, RB and throw in a 2nd tight end I think Josh is good enough - we mightn't win a superbowl with him but I think we make a playoff/win our division at least which is a start. I don't think we can with our current one with the cap the way it is - I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right when our D still stinks next year. If I was having a bet right now I'd back the Packers to win the division next year and the Lions to beat us into 2nd given better coaching.

It can even be a second or third round QB if the prospect is right. Kap was high round 2, Wilson round 3, foles round 3. Brees and Brady weren't first round picks also fro example.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Then throw him in for a year and pay him big in year 3 if he comes good? And if not it’s back at square one anyway.

Rookie contracts are 4 years - so you get 3 'cheap' years under this option.

SameOleJay wrote: »

I think either option is fraught with dangers if I’m honest.

[/QUOTE]

Of course it's dangerous - what's the alternative? Continue to miss playoffs? If you haven't noticed we are about a million miles away from winning a superbowl - we can't even win our division.

Again I'll point to the evidence of the make up of the playoff teams this year and last.

SameOleJay · 06-01-2014 6:23pm

Ah hang on a second. Johnson took in 12 mill this year. Byrd is apparently after top safety money so that’s close to 10 mill. Jones, Lewis, a tight-end and a whole raft of others too?

Spend nearly the whole draft on D. Make the necessary cuts (Bennett, Podlesh, Hester etc) pick up a couple of decent free agents. Resign Melton, Ratliff, Wooten and Bowman (I would expect all to be reasonably priced). Replace the DC. I think that’s enough to push us to a middling D which is all we need.

padraig_f · 06-01-2014 8:11pm

adrian522 wrote: »

I think he is capable of making all the throws and making good decisions. His problem is in going through his reads when his first and second options are covered.

I think that improve in time to be honest.

He still has a tendency to make 1 or 2 bad throws per game, seemed to have that sorted out over the last 6 games but back with a vengeance yesterday.

Ok, haven't seen him as much live as you have so I'll defer to you there, but it is in the playoffs where weaknesses tend to get exposed. I'm happy to give him a pass last night, the weather probably didn't help. You have to think the Panthers will try and contain him in the pocket next week, and have more talent to do it than the Packers did. I still picked the 49ers to win because Cam Newton has his own passing issues, but interesting to see how they both fare.

padraig_f · 06-01-2014 8:57pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

Problem is you have to make a playoff to win them. Probably on a regular basis too to gain that 'experience'. Something we can't do.

Foles did most things that the systems asks of him and played well imho, Kap won the game (with legs or not - your legs are there to help as a weapon and shouldn't be seen as a negative - this will likely be the case for any young drafted QB anyway - and he beat many a team this year and last with those legs) and he led his team to a superbowl last year so really can't see that your point stands. Obviously as he matures he ll become a better pocket passer and run less. He still came in last year as a 2nd year QB and brought them forward from Alex Smith.

The 49ers could've won a Super Bowl last year alright, I think the read-option took teams by surprise a bit, and in the off-season defenses have learned to defend it better, so a bit of a caveat to that. Also as teams get more tape on a QB, they'll gameplan more for his weaknesses.

I don't mind QBs beating you on the ground if the option is there, but I think better defenses have the ability to take that option away and force you to beat them through the air. The Panthers and Seahawks are two defenses who have the ability to do this.

Maybe Kaepernick does get it done, but the 16/30, 1 INT he put up yesterday won't be good enough over the next few weeks.

Spongey1975 · 07-01-2014 10:06am

Just read this morning that people who have reviewed Cutlers contract have seen a clause in it that allows the Bears to transfer any of his salary ($22.5million) to a signing bonus at any time. A handy option for later in offseason which more than likely will be needed

kennyb3 · 07-01-2014 10:06am

SameOleJay wrote: »

Ah hang on a second. Johnson took in 12 mill this year. Byrd is apparently after top safety money so that’s close to 10 mill. Jones, Lewis, a tight-end and a whole raft of others too?

Johnson turned down $40m over 5 years and could probably be got for $45m over 5 years. (that's not unrealistic when you look at Geno Atkins contract - $56m over 6 years and Johnson can't demand as much) With $22.5m available from Cutlers cap hit we could front load $12m of that into 2014.

Again with Bryd $32m over 4 years is more realistic. We do the reverse of Johnson here and give him $5m in year one and backload a little bit. Also Chris Clemons or Donte whitner are cheaper but very viable options.

So thats $17m. Jones would be another $2/$3 m and Lewis $2m. That's about $21/$22m.

When I say a raft of others - I mean depth (Fred Davis - $1m, anthony Dixon $1.5m)

And I'd still spend the whole draft on D (the top half anyway - I'd add a depth tackle later). Rounds 1-3 example

Pick 14 - CJ Mosley LB - We badly need a MLB. This guy isn't quite Luke Kuechly quality but he is a great prospect. Reads the game and great in coverage.

Pick 46 - Daniel McCullers NT - Again we need a proper fatty to stuff the run and this guy certainly has the size but also the ability to do same.

Pick 78 - Justin Gilbert CB - A good fit, with good hands and play making ability. Has size and speed.

That gives us a defensive roster of

DE - Bennett, Johnson, Wotton, Bass, Washington

DT - Jones, McCullers, Melton, Ratliff, Paea

LB - Briggs, Williams, Mosley, bostic, Greene, Costanzo, McClellin (ugh)

CB - Jennings, Bowman, Lewis, Gilbert, Frey

FS - Bryd/Whitner/Clemons, Conte

SS - Lewis, Steltz.

I've left out pure roster guys like McManis and Walter.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Spend nearly the whole draft on D.

Lets see your draft and the roster depth as a result. A super draft might produce 3 day one starters, a very good one 2.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Make the necessary cuts (Bennett, Podlesh, Hester etc) pick up a couple of decent free agents. Resign Melton, Ratliff, Wooten and Bowman (I would expect all to be reasonably priced). Replace the DC. I think that’s enough to push us to a middling D which is all we need.

Who are the decent free agents and what do they cost? Again lets see that D roster within the cap please.

Very easy to criticise and say ah sure it will be grand - we'll have a good draft and we'll pick up some good (unspecified) free agents.

I've at least given you a full breakdown of exactly the type of team and roster I'd like to at least follow through my analysis of why I think the Cutler contract makes no sense as I think many think I'm just full of hot air.

kennyb3 · 07-01-2014 10:33am

Spongey1975 wrote: »

I remember last year going into free agency we were tight against the cap and our offense needing plenty of help and Emery transformed the offense into what it is now. We went from the 28th best offense in yards per game and the 16th best offense in points per game in 2012 to the 8th best offense in yards per game and the 2nd best offense in points per game in 2013. There is no reason why that level cant be reproduced in 2014.

I wouldn't be so sure - last year we were incredibly lucky with injuries, cutler aside and McCown did an amazing job stepping in. All our receivers, RB's, TE and line stayed healthy apart from Mills week 17 injury. I'll be very surprised if we don't get a few more injuries offensively next year and again we seriously lack depth on this side of the ball in areas. If Martellus goes down what do we do for a TE that can run and catch? Also we only played 3 teams with a winning record last year, so we better hope for a similar schedule next year.

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Now this time around we are once again tight against the cap and need a lot of help on the defensive side of the ball. I, for one, trust Emery to once again do his thing and get the players in to improve us from the 3rd worst defense in yards per game and 2nd worst defense in points per game. An improvement to mid table in those rankings and there is no reason we cant contend

I understand this thinking and I feel the same - I trust Emery.

But then I think about it and compare. Withe the offence last year we had 3 key piece's in place to build around - a QB, a superstar wide receiver in BMarsh and a top quality RB in Forte. Do we have the same on defence? We have Briggs and Jennings - are they that? Not so sure (but could be wrong).

We also had an excellent 2nd round draft pick from the year before who was just waiting to break out (Jeffrey). And boy did he break out! Will Bostic do the same? Again not so sure!

Also if you look at the free agency signings of Bushrod and MBennett here and here are the cap hit numbers for last year - we won't be able to keep back ending contracts, though admittedly the structure of Jay's contract will help.

I also think that Aaron Kromer's influence is hugely undervalued - to me it was him who gave us 2 starters on the line (and a solid line). We better hope we get a coach as good defensively.

Then I look at Emery's defensive draft selections McClellin, Hardin, Bostic, Greene, Washington, Greg McCoy. (Frey was a good selection) Doesn't fill me with hope though some have a chance to still prove they are good selections. Hopefully he turns it around!

Now we only need to get to a mid ranked defence and the offence to fire pretty close to last year.

It's the defence part I worry about - Bostic and Greene need to step up hugely, our draft picks need to be spot on and then we have a chance imho. I'm far from confident though.

I think people underestimate the sheer number of defensive players we need outside of resignings - a left DE, a couple of DT's, a MLB, a CB, a couple of safties. I make that 7 players minimum.

SameOleJay · 07-01-2014 2:16pm

I think there are too many unknowns to plan out the D in any detail. How will Collins and Melton recover from such bad injuries? How much money are they after? Will Tucker stay? Is a switch to the 3-4 on the cards?

Of those still contracted I think cutting Bennett (Expecting big things of Wilson) , Bush (Ford back-up, can’t be worse), Podlesh (Ranked 33rd in net yards, how is that even possible?) and a restructure of Marshall’s contract is feasible in opening space.

Go DE, DT and safety in the first three rounds- all starters. At safety keep Conte (Cheap as chips anyway) and add a late rounder or cheap FA- send Major Wrong out to pasture. Corner is tough- I love Peanut but he needs to stay cheap especially with the Jenning’s deal. Keep Melton, Collins and Ratliff if reasonably priced and they all should be. Resigning Wooten at DE should now be prioritized. Take Michael Bennett in FA in addition to the draft pick and Bass. Use the back end of the draft and any cents left over for depth.

I don’t know near enough of this year’s stock to go into detail on the draft names.

This is all straight off the top of my head so is probably ludicrous but I trust Emery to pull together a respectable D with the space available.

adrian522 · 08-01-2014 11:51am

padraig_f wrote: »

Maybe Kaepernick does get it done, but the 16/30, 1 INT he put up yesterday won't be good enough over the next few weeks.

Well looking at the stats in isolation doesn't tell the whole story. He made some big time throws and converted 50% on 3rd down as well as converting the 4th down.

The TD pass to Davis was a great throw I think.

You also can't just throw out the rushing yards as for teams to take those away will likely require a QB spy which also will help in the passing game.

All in all he got things done when it matters most, and to me that is more important than the stat line.

It wasn't a game for crazy passing stats, but 277 yards is still pretty good for a post season game on the road in the cold.

I also don't think he will put up big numbers against Carolina, 200 yards would be about it I would say. What he needs to do is cut out the wild throws, he had 3 against Green Bay, was lucky they weren't all picked off.

Spongey1975 · 09-01-2014 10:46am

Very interesting article from Bleacher report here on our current cap situation

kennyb3 · 09-01-2014 12:20pm

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Very interesting article from Bleacher report here on our current cap situation

Bleacher really isn't my cup of tea but that is a good detailed look at things or at least an attempt to do same realistically. I think it get a bit confusing, hard to track at times as he doesn't pin down things enough at times.

Anyway 3 things strike me ; Bennett will demand more than $15/3yrs imho. More like $18-19m/3yrs imho

His workings on cutlers contract :mad: - so we'll have 3/4years of $2m dead if we cut him at after 3/4years. Also that leaves him making $17m next year and $18m the year after - you can't not mention this and it's possible impact with BMarsh to be extended and Jeffrey out of his rookie contract the year after.

Then he creates an extra $3.2m by doing the same with other players.

Also his $15m others figure is very thin air - especially as he has included Wotton, Bowman, Britton, Collins, McCown before he adds in roster players (and we just cut 2 WR's, a RB and a starting punter all needing to be replaced to some degree). Wotton alone could eat $3m of that imho.

Overall think it still does a good job of showing just how screwed we are especially when you're a bit more realistic about numbers. We also then need the 2 draft picks who are in the line up to step up massively and need either Bostic/Greene to step up at LB.

kennyb3 · 09-01-2014 1:06pm

Just to highlight the problem with Bleacher report and show soem of teh writers don't have a clue;

They have us drafting undersized DT's & DE's here and here. Yeah that's what we need with our run D!

Apparently we've enough cap room to sign emmanuel sanders and fix our defence too.

And though I love the pick, I'm not sure I agree with

'The Bears would instantly have one of the league's brightest young linebacker corps with this lineup and could return the team to the days of dominant linebacker play.'

Obviously didn't see bostic or Greene play last season.

Innish_Rebel · 09-01-2014 3:47pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

Just to highlight the problem with Bleacher report and show soem of teh writers don't have a clue;

They have us drafting undersized DT's & DE's here and here. Yeah that's what we need with our run D!

Apparently we've enough cap room to sign emmanuel sanders and fix our defence too.

And though I love the pick, I'm not sure I agree with

'The Bears would instantly have one of the league's brightest young linebacker corps with this lineup and could return the team to the days of dominant linebacker play.'

Obviously didn't see bostic or Greene play last season.

Yes I agree Bostic & Greene didn't shine this season but their life wasn't exactly made easy by the D-line getting no pressure and allowing gaping holes to run through. I wouldn't write them off yet - yes they need to step up.
But I think what happened them in the defence this year was a bit more than being thrown in at the deep end with all phases of the defence not being up to scratch.

I accept your point of view on the Cutler signing - I am more in the boat of sitting back to see where Emery goes from here, I trust he has a plan.

The decision is now done - still nothing stopping them trying a 3rd round to try and groom a starter, but excluding the class of 2012 where the results (to date) are impressive (Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Cousins, Wilson - Weeden, Osweiler) most other years the 1st 3 rounds give more busts than booms... eg 2010 & 2009 Bradford, Tebow, Clauson, McCoy, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman & White were the QB's from the 1st 3 rounds the two main guys were both 1st picks (Bradford & Stafford).

I think another positive on the Cutler contract is they got it done quick - no months of press speculation etc...

All I know is I hope the bears can get from bottom of league to mid range on defense - then we can challenge.

I suppose my one question regarding trying to find a good young (cheap) QB, aka Wilson/Kap/etc... You get cap space to build up the rest of the squad - brilliant, but what happens once the rookie contract expires and you need to open the chequebook to keep the QB? Is it not better to try to have that QB in place with the money assigned and build around him? Just throwing it out there...

kennyb3 · 09-01-2014 5:13pm

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Yes I agree Bostic & Greene didn't shine this season but their life wasn't exactly made easy by the D-line getting no pressure and allowing gaping holes to run through. I wouldn't write them off yet - yes they need to step up.
But I think what happened them in the defence this year was a bit more than being thrown in at the deep end with all phases of the defence not being up to scratch.

Hi Innish_Rebel - totally agree they got chucked in the deep end and having an awful d-line didn't help. Though I don't think this excuses Bostic over running playings a number of times, something that was touted as a worry at the time of being drafted, so that's a big concern. I know he is a big hitter so maybe trying too hard to lay one on to make an impression?

Also Bostic was put in at MLB, which was crazy. The question/worry is how much long term damage this has done to both?

Also I guess I was highlighting this again as everyone is looking to the draft to help in a big way to fix our D - something I don't think you can rely on as evidenced by their play. If we end up with a rookie DE & DT it could be much the same scenario. Personally i like to see draft picks brought along a little more slowly with less pressure.

The rest of the D needs to improve significantly to shield these rookies.

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

I accept your point of view on the Cutler signing - I am more in the boat of sitting back to see where Emery goes from here, I trust he has a plan.

The decision is now done - still nothing stopping them trying a 3rd round to try and groom a starter, but excluding the class of 2012 where the results (to date) are impressive (Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Cousins, Wilson - Weeden, Osweiler) most other years the 1st 3 rounds give more busts than booms... eg 2010 & 2009 Bradford, Tebow, Clauson, McCoy, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman & White were the QB's from the 1st 3 rounds the two main guys were both 1st picks (Bradford & Stafford).

I accept that it's not without risk, but again as I've said too many of these QB's are overdrafted and thrown in from day 1. And of course there are strong and weak classes - I think this one is relatively decent, and in fairness I've tried to identify a target I like and I think emery likes. And we supposedly have a QB guru coach, so all the elements seem in place.

And if the QB turns out to be a dud? Well we have a massive down year, end up with a high draft pick and draft one with that the next year or look to see if there is an 'Alex Smith' type available then.

Risky? - Yes! Possibly massively rewarding - Yes!

What have we being doing for years now? **** all! For all our great offence last year - we were a worse team - we finished 8-8 having only played 3 'winning' teams. I've said I don't think we'll win our division, let alone a conference or superbowl.

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

I think another positive on the Cutler contract is they got it done quick - no months of press speculation etc...

Agreed - at least they can go about their business now on the D side and start preparing for FA and the draft.

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

All I know is I hope the bears can get from bottom of league to mid range on defense - then we can challenge.

Hopefully but as I've said already, pinning my colours to the mast, I doubt that happens and I also predict a bit of a fall off offensively due to some injuries, Trestmans playbook/our offense being a bit more known, our weak schedule this year.

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

I suppose my one question regarding trying to find a good young (cheap) QB, aka Wilson/Kap/etc... You get cap space to build up the rest of the squad - brilliant, but what happens once the rookie contract expires and you need to open the chequebook to keep the QB? Is it not better to try to have that QB in place with the money assigned and build around him? Just throwing it out there...

This is a challenging question and there is no one answer and I hope I can explain but I see it as a combination of;

1) Being able to front load some other contracts given the cap space created so that you don't end up with bloated back end contracts for the years in which you need to pay this QB

2) As you have more quality/veterans on the roster with the extra cap, you

a) Have more flexibility draft wise - i.e you can draft best player available rather than always chasing needs

b) Can be more patient and develop the players you draft rather than throwing them to the wolves. They are also learning from top quality seasoned pro's. Who is going to help a DE we draft if we don't get a Michael Bennett? Corey wotton? See the difference.

Just look at a team like the 49ers to see how this works. I'll bet Tank Carradine becomes a beast next year with the help of Aldon Smith.

3) Having a more balanced team helps prevent you ending up with players with big leverage and demanding a big contract, again feeding into helping the cap. If Jeffrey hadn't broken out BMarsh could demand a whole whole lot more when is contract is up next year.

I think what I'm getting at is yeah you'll have to pay the QB the big beans (and hopefully they'll be worth every penny of the contract they get, which I don't think Jay is - it's the value I have issue with) one day but hopefully you'll have a more settled, balanced team with a lot of depth at that time.

Instead we've fired big money (nearly elite money) at Jay while trying to patch together a starting D, never mind have any real depth. Of course that's massively going to handicap us. I've mainly focussed on the D for obvious, but you'd swear we were sorted depth wise on O the way people are going on - we are an injury to Jeffrey or MBennett from a crisis.

Obviously I don't blame all this on emery - it's mainly a carry over from crappy drafts for years and the previous regimes terrible management.

I.e. How the f'uck are we ending up with $9m in dead cap for Peppers? That $9m would be fairly handy right now eh? (really emery should have traded him last year before a down year if we are being hyper critical)

I hope that's a comprehensive enough reply to show I'm not just throwing stuff out for the sake of it!

Oat23 · 12-01-2014 11:16pm

Tucker is staying. Tim Tibesar (LB coach) and Mike Phair (DL coach) are the only ones not returning.

:mad:

Spongey1975 · 13-01-2014 11:26am

Oat23 wrote: »

Tucker is staying. Tim Tibesar (LB coach) and Mike Phair (DL coach) are the only ones not returning.

:mad:

The biggest problem we had was inability to tackle and stop the run, fundamentals that really come down to the respective position coaches who have been fired. Given the injuries we've had I can see why Tucker was given a second chance, lets hope he does something with it

SameOleJay · 13-01-2014 11:47am

Green Bay was the only game we showed any innovation on D. The personnel were brutal but Tucker did nothing to aid them as a unit.

Some of the calls were just dismal- anyone remember the Cassell play for 4th and 10ish near his own endzone?

I’ll back him because I have to but I’d prefer him gone.

padraig_f · 14-01-2014 1:12am

Thought it was 50-50 Tucker would get fired, didn't do anything to deserve to stay on, but I guess with the combination of it being his first year there and all the injuries, they gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I can kind of see that, you don't want to be too knee-jerk, but despite the injuries, it still wasn't good enough. I heard the explanation of that season-ending defensive play, apparently the defense audibled out of zone coverage into man, but Conte didn't get the call, and continued to play zone. To me that's on the coaching, in week 17 you shouldn't be having basic communication errors like that.

Only thing is he'll be on a short leash next season, if there's not a marked improvement, he's gone.

alaimacerc · 16-01-2014 3:43am

SameOleJay wrote: »

Green Bay was the only game we showed any innovation on D. The personnel were brutal but Tucker did nothing to aid them as a unit.

Yeah, that's what we want to see, some old-fashioned Chicago defensive brutality!

... oh, wait, you're meaning more Dooblin brootality.

bobby wade · 21-01-2014 3:15pm

AJ, Tim Jennings & Kyle Long have all been added to the Probowl roster to join Marhall & Forte

Realt Dearg Sec · 21-01-2014 3:40pm

bobby wade wrote: »

AJ, Tim Jennings & Kyle Long have all been added to the Probowl roster to join Marhall & Forte

Jennings our only defensive player at it, no wonder they moved to sew his contract up good and early.

Great for Jeffery too, and long: as a first rounder that nobody expected and nobody really rated, is it time to admit Emery made a good call on his first rounder here? EDIT: I say this as someone who raised a serious eyebrow about the pick

Guffy · 21-01-2014 3:48pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

EDIT: I say this as someone who raised a serious eyebrow about the pick

Is that the left or right one? Is the other one your jovial eyebrow?

Realt Dearg Sec · 21-01-2014 4:10pm

gufc21 wrote: »

Is that the left or right one? Is the other one your jovial eyebrow?

Actually when I try to raise an eyebrow they both go up. That's how seriously doubtful I was of the pick. Two eyebrows.

But he came in and did a great job in fairness, for a guy with only a few games at college level. He seems pretty crazy as well, which is no harm.

SameOleJay · 21-01-2014 4:18pm

I couldn’t believe the pick. Kiper, if memory serves, absolutely hated it. Long could become dominant if he continues the trend.

If it weren’t for Shea (Leaving Chandler Jones on the board) I’d have total faith in Emery. Mind, had he picked Alshon first round and Shea second I might even have forgotten it.

Realt Dearg Sec · 21-01-2014 4:36pm

SameOleJay wrote: »

I couldn’t believe the pick. Kiper, if memory serves, absolutely hated it. Long could become dominant if he continues the trend.

If it weren’t for Shea (Leaving Chandler Jones on the board) I’d have total faith in Emery. Mind, had he picked Alshon first round and Shea second I might even have forgotten it.

There's a few teams that regret leaving alshon on the board in the first round, snagging him makes up for Shea (and who knows, he might come good at LB next year, though I doubt it)

kennyb3 · 28-02-2014 3:13pm

Quiet in here lately.

Salary cap expected to make nearly $10M jump in 2014

I know some of that will feed into what players ask for, but given our high number of needs it should help to a degree.

Really enjoy the lead up to free agency and the draft. Enjoying reading and researching players. With us having so many needs and so many roster free agents it's hard to assess the draft until free agency closes.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Melton, as if he goes we'll need a 3 tech such as Donald.

Not mad on the DE class so hoping we'll do something in free agency.

Innish_Rebel · 28-02-2014 3:34pm

I know - it is interesting to see what Emery & co will do.

A lot of mock drafts are giving us Timmy Jernighan from Florida State or Louis Nix from Notre Dame, both are nose tackles and both were the 1st two defensive line players taken (excluding Clowney). But then again last year no one saw Long in 1st round and Mills was a home run @ Round 5...

I loved his answer to the question at the combine. He was asked about Peppers this past season, answered clear and concise, then asked about cutting/renegotiating deal for next year and came back with something along the lines of, "that sounds like a question regarding contracts - we do not discuss these with media". End of discussion, great way of doing business. I have to say I'm still not sure about the Cutler move but it has moved the Bears out of that bright media spotlight which is always a good thing...

Ha moves again prior to free agency Garza & Rosario (TE) - All 11 starters from last year on offense are now re-signed...

SameOleJay · 28-02-2014 3:52pm

It’s peculiar having nigh on no needs at one end. A whole draft and FA focussed on D is exciting.

I hope to god Jay’s contract will be painted in a better light after free agency. If Byrd, Bennett, Johnson et al remain in situ or leave on huge bucks I’ll be fairly happy. I’m not sure even one of them will be attainable with our cap situation.

Oat23 · 04-03-2014 8:41pm

For anyone who still thinks we are f*cked for cap room, look at what the Cowboys did with Romo today.
Emery can do that anytime he wants with Cutler (or Jennings, Slauson and Gould apparently).

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10548712/dallas-cowboys-restructuring-contracts-tony-romo-sean-lee-salary-cap

The next few months will be fun.

SameOleJay · 05-03-2014 11:06am

Take as much pain as you can with Jay this year I think. If a decent DE is for the taking in FA just backload the deal like we did with the Bennett signing.

I really, really, don’t wanna be going down the Lions’ route on the salary cap. Their numbers at the top end for this year are just hideous.

Draken360 · 06-03-2014 4:15pm

A Sad Day for Bears Nation, Devin Hester wont be resigned , another tough decision to stomach but probably the right one ,such a shame he so close to that return record ,wont be the same if he achieves it with another team but best of luck to him Bears Legend!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1982911-devin-hester-reportedly-wont-be-re-signed-by-chicago-bears

padraig_f · 06-03-2014 5:45pm

Draken360 wrote: »

A Sad Day for Bears Nation, Devin Hester wont be resigned , another tough decision to stomach but probably the right one ,such a shame he so close to that return record ,wont be the same if he achieves it with another team but best of luck to him Bears Legend!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1982911-devin-hester-reportedly-wont-be-re-signed-by-chicago-bears

Yeah, writing was probably on the wall a bit when he became a return-only guy, hard to justify a roster spot for that when you're not developing the guy for something else.

Raftliff signed up, $4m/2 years, which looks a great deal. Melton and Tillman still not signed, see what happens there. Free agency starts next Tuesday.

SameOleJay · 06-03-2014 6:12pm

Just flicking through the Bleacher Report Top 1000 there and our O-line grades with the best in the league according to them. Slauson, Garza and Long rate very highly. And, outside Bushrod, it’s coming pretty cheap too.

If Emery can come up trumps twice with a defensive line revamp it’d be off the charts.

That Ratcliff deal is very decent. Only 600k guaranteed.

padraig_f · 10-03-2014 2:44pm

I saw Martellus Bennett's tweet a few weeks ago, but didn't think the Bears would be in for one of the high-priced free agents with the lack of cap room (think just $6m before any cuts), so a bit surprised to see this:

Report: Bears expect to sign Michael Bennett

I guess would mean Peppers being cut to make room. Not confirmed yet, but seem to be a few reports suggesting it's likely.

Realt Dearg Sec · 10-03-2014 3:32pm

padraig_f wrote: »

I saw Martellus Bennett's tweet a few weeks ago, but didn't think the Bears would be in for one of the high-priced free agents with the lack of cap room (think just $6m before any cuts), so a bit surprised to see this:

Report: Bears expect to sign Michael Bennett

I guess would mean Peppers being cut to make room. Not confirmed yet, but seem to be a few reports suggesting it's likely.

Good news. I thought Martellus was just joking earlier last year

SameOleJay · 10-03-2014 3:45pm

Happy enough to see Melton go but anyone else miffed Wootton is being let hit FA?

I know there’s fitness concerns but I assumed he’d be high priority.

SameOleJay · 10-03-2014 10:25pm

And Bennett signs on for Seattle.

Apparently we had more on the table too. Shame.

Oat23 · 10-03-2014 10:46pm

Darren Sproles impending release from NO is interesting. I've always been a fan and he could be a great pickup for the offense (and ST). Forte, Sproles and Ford would be good depth at RB. He hasn't been released yet though.

Schefter saying Bears trying to trade Peppers, not gonna happen for obvious reasons.
Michael Bush and Dante Rosario have been cut.

How Bout Dem Bears?

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