CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

Cienciano · 25-02-2021 6:52pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

Might be worth talking to him?

If you go to all the trouble of chasing up somebody to give you the 'green light' to do the work, your can't insist you builder actually do the work during a lockdown.

He said he'd do it before if he could. He has a job to do afterwards, so he actually wants to finish this sooner. He actually had covid at the start of January too. If he doesn't feel safe doing it or for any reason doesn't want to do it, that's fine, not going to press the issue

Frozen Veg · 25-02-2021 7:06pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

You're being obtuse. The HSE have set out the guidelines on behalf of the Government and the Gardaí are being asked to enforce based on that.

Department of health and NPHET recommend the guidelines.

I wouldn't be recommending calling the HSE in relation to lockdown restrictions. Probably have enough on their plate with testing and vaccines.

Gumbo · 25-02-2021 9:04pm

It’s the local Garda that will actually shut you down.
The first port of call should be to the Garda station soaking your situation and get approval.

Done that today for a friend. Explained the reasoning behind what needed to be done and the Garda gave him permission to finish those particular works.

Mainly health and safety related, especially where works or product have a risk onto the public path. Another was the rear of the house being propped with strong boys. He wanted to remove them and it in the permanent structural steel.

Garda gave go ahead too.

km79 · 25-02-2021 9:13pm

Gumbo wrote: »

It’s the local Garda that will actually shut you down.
The first port of call should be to the Garda station soaking your situation and get approval.

Done that today for a friend. Explained the reasoning behind what needed to be done and the Garda gave him permission to finish those particular works.

Mainly health and safety related, especially where works or product have a risk onto the public path. Another was the rear of the house being propped with strong boys. He wanted to remove them and it in the permanent structural steel.

Garda gave go ahead too.

If they shut you down what is the follow on ?
Fines ? DPP?
Or just shut down and don’t restart until restrictions lifted ?

Cienciano · 25-02-2021 9:23pm

Gumbo wrote: »

It’s the local Garda that will actually shut you down.
The first port of call should be to the Garda station soaking your situation and get approval.

Done that today for a friend. Explained the reasoning behind what needed to be done and the Garda gave him permission to finish those particular works.

Mainly health and safety related, especially where works or product have a risk onto the public path. Another was the rear of the house being propped with strong boys. He wanted to remove them and it in the permanent structural steel.

Garda gave go ahead too.

Did the garda give you anything in writing? I'd imagine it wouldn't require much, a piece of stamped paper from a station and no gardai would bother you at a checkpoint. I'm in an "essential service" and just a name of the company is enough. Don't even need the ID or letter.

pale rider · 25-02-2021 9:25pm

Can those who are out and about and observant in your towns confirm what I see in mine.

New house being built with 3 bricklayers working behind gates, I can see them from my gaff.

5 yes 5 transit sized vans outside a house doing renovation work and....

Local Chadwicks had 7 works vehicles in the car park with vans coming and going as I was out walking yesterday morning, I did stand for a minute in disbelief.

These 3 examples noted whilst I was out walking.

All in this together. Ah I don’t think so...

What about your local towns: builders providers, what do you see ?

DOCARCH · 25-02-2021 9:27pm

km79 wrote: »

If they shut you down what is the follow on ?
Fines ? DPP?
Or just shut down and don’t restart until restrictions lifted ?

I heard somewhere about E1K fine per person on site.

Frozen Veg · 25-02-2021 9:54pm

pale rider wrote: »

Can those who are out and about and observant in your towns confirm what I see in mine.

New house being built with 3 bricklayers working behind gates, I can see them from my gaff.

5 yes 5 transit sized vans outside a house doing renovation work and....

Local Chadwicks had 7 works vehicles in the car park with vans coming and going as I was out walking yesterday morning, I did stand for a minute in disbelief.

These 3 examples noted whilst I was out walking.

All in this together. Ah I don’t think so...

What about your local towns: builders providers, what do you see ?

It's going on everywhere.

Restrictions aren't been enforced. Few fines would sort things pretty quick.

It's a lockdown or it's not. Doesn't work if it's half arsed.

km79 · 25-02-2021 10:05pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

I heard somewhere about E1K fine per person on site.

I heard it was 3K
But only heard
I can’t see it in any of the restrictions legislation

Cienciano · 25-02-2021 10:10pm

pale rider wrote: »

Can those who are out and about and observant in your towns confirm what I see in mine.

New house being built with 3 bricklayers working behind gates, I can see them from my gaff.

5 yes 5 transit sized vans outside a house doing renovation work and....

Local Chadwicks had 7 works vehicles in the car park with vans coming and going as I was out walking yesterday morning, I did stand for a minute in disbelief.

These 3 examples noted whilst I was out walking.

All in this together. Ah I don’t think so...

What about your local towns: builders providers, what do you see ?

Oh yes, loads of them where I am. Go on the usual walk through an estate in goatstown and there's a good few. Some have boarded up and stopped, but others are working as usual. Including the next door neighbours.

Wildly Boaring · 25-02-2021 10:42pm

70% off our sites are shut.

We deal with all the main developers and commercial builders.

All big sites.

ZeroSum76 · 26-02-2021 10:51am

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/td-wrote-letter-for-dublin-couples-home-extension-works-during-level-5-lockdown-40133415.html

Gumbo · 26-02-2021 11:01am

km79 wrote: »

If they shut you down what is the follow on ?
Fines ? DPP?
Or just shut down and don’t restart until restrictions lifted ?

DOCARCH wrote: »

I heard somewhere about E1K fine per person on site.

Small Residential extension. Garda just asked them to stop unless they could demonstrate it was essential. Told the Gardai that it’s not essential and asked if they could just finish this wall as it fronts a public path so H&S to members of the public and also place steel beam in as whole house currently propped using strong boys temp support system.

They said to go to station with that in writing and the super would give his opinion. They done that and were told to finish these parts of the job and then close up.

Fines are the last resort.
The Gardai are following the 2 E’s, Education, Encouragement and finally Enforcement if you don’t comply following the first 2.

Gumbo · 26-02-2021 11:03am

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/td-wrote-letter-for-dublin-couples-home-extension-works-during-level-5-lockdown-40133415.html

I know many sites shut and the only thing outstanding is windows. Not essential at all I would say.

Wildly Boaring · 26-02-2021 11:18am

Gumbo wrote: »

I know many sites shut and the only thing outstanding is windows. Not essential at all I would say.

Do not know the facts of the house in the indo piece.

But
I can see how a roof or windows on an extension could be essential.
For instance if said extension works have left original plasterboard etc exposed to the elements.
You can only temporarily protect so well
Getting weathered could be essential.
Although why anyone started an extension in December / January 2021 with obvious restrictions imminent is completely beyond me and I would have no sympathy whatsoever.

This is being left to the client and the guards to decide, which is ridiculous.

I've seen plenty flouting this altogether.

Cycle past a one off house in south Meath, they're doing rising walls.
I know of a main builder doing enabling works on a new build.
They've managed to convince all including the guards that diverting a Irish Water sewer is essential.

Cienciano · 26-02-2021 1:42pm

Easy to weatherproof where windows go in, just put in a sheet of plywood. I have it on three windows in the back out for the last 2 months, all have a sheet of plywood in.

Can't imagine the neighbors will be friendly after that.

ZeroSum76 · 26-02-2021 4:13pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Department of health and NPHET recommend the guidelines.

I wouldn't be recommending calling the HSE in relation to lockdown restrictions. Probably have enough on their plate with testing and vaccines.

This is the line I was told to enquire with by the Gardai. The HSE Hotline in their words. Also on the website:

Contact the HSE COVID-19 helpline

https://www2.hse.ie/services/contact-the-hse/

Frozen Veg · 26-02-2021 7:03pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

This is the line I was told to enquire with by the Gardai. The HSE Hotline in their words. Also on the website:

Contact the HSE COVID-19 helpline

https://www2.hse.ie/services/contact-the-hse/

Don't think they advised you correctly there.

beggars_bush · 26-02-2021 10:08pm

New house build up the road from us started putting up scaffolding today for the first storey

km79 · 26-02-2021 10:14pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

New house build up the road from us started putting up scaffolding today for the first storey

There has been a noticeable increase in activity in 3 houses around here too
Rural area
We haven’t broken ground yet . Hopefully April

ElderWanderer · 27-02-2021 8:01pm

The Gardai couldn't give a toss about illegal construction activity around here.

I haven't seen any indication that they give a toss about enforcing any of the other rules either- they don't even pretend to be checking whether journeys are essential; maybe 5% of the times I've encountered a checkpoint in the last year I've been asked where I've been going and the other 95% I've been waved through without a second glance. I've not yet been asked to provide evidence that my journey is essential.

Wildly Boaring · 27-02-2021 8:34pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Cycle past a one off house in south Meath, they're doing rising walls.
.

Boys have the floor poured today.

Noticed 3 pairs of groundworkers at out this morning too
Fair enough very low risk but deffo not essential.
One pair doing fence to a new build.
Another knocking the gate to a new build.
Third laying sewer pipes to new build.

Frozen Veg · 27-02-2021 9:20pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Boys have the floor poured today.

Noticed 3 pairs of groundworkers at out this morning too
Fair enough very low risk but deffo not essential.
One pair doing fence to a new build.
Another knocking the gate to a new build.
Third laying sewer pipes to new build.

Very little Risk in outdoor work.

Will be 30 kids packed into classrooms from Monday.

The construction guidelines are ridiculous.

km79 · 27-02-2021 9:26pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Very little Risk in outdoor work.

Will be 30 kids packed into classrooms from Monday.

The construction guidelines are ridiculous.

Assuming cases don’t spike after schools go back they won’t be able to justify it beyond start of April
I think they are planning on relaxing them for construction anyway tbh but don’t want to say it just in case things go pear shaped again

beggars_bush · 27-02-2021 9:30pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Very little Risk in outdoor work.

Will be 30 kids packed into classrooms from Monday.

The construction guidelines are ridiculous.

Stops thousands of workers from crossing the border every day and thousands more driving into Dublin everyday

km79 · 27-02-2021 9:50pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Stops thousands of workers from crossing the border every day and thousands more driving into Dublin everyday

The North will soon have more to fear about cross border traveller ms than Vice versa given the relative rate of vaccinations!

Charlie19 · 27-02-2021 9:56pm

Every hotel carpark in close proximity to the M50 is full of Northern registered cars from Monday to Thursday and had been that way during the last lockdown too.

Frozen Veg · 27-02-2021 10:36pm

km79 wrote: »

Assuming cases don’t spike after schools go back they won’t be able to justify it beyond start of April
I think they are planning on relaxing them for construction anyway tbh but don’t want to say it just in case things go pear shaped again

I think they are mindful that there are two bank holiday weekends coming up so didn't want to give the public the impression that restrictions are been lifted in anyway.

Hence the reason that the Gardai aren't really stopping work on private sites unless complaints are received.

Construction should never have stopped though.

Frozen Veg · 27-02-2021 10:37pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Stops thousands of workers from crossing the border every day and thousands more driving into Dublin everyday

North is the least of our worries now.

Wildly Boaring · 27-02-2021 10:37pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Very little Risk in outdoor work.

Will be 30 kids packed into classrooms from Monday.

The construction guidelines are ridiculous.

Agreed ridiculous
But they're the rules.
I'm on a 4 day week because our clients are foolishly following it.
The inconsistancies are infuriating

Can't stand all the moaning about the north.
We infected ourselves at Christmas. Nordies were at home

beggars_bush · 27-02-2021 10:39pm

km79 wrote: »

The North will soon have more to fear about cross border traveller ms than Vice versa given the relative rate of vaccinations!

They can still carry virus and transmit

Corby Trouser Press · 01-03-2021 11:34am

In week 6 of this year (Feb 8th to 14th) there were 9 construction related cases.

There were 6,041 total cases that week.

There's no sense to this at all.

No proportionality or sense of perspective.

Another 5 weeks to go...

sydthebeat · 01-03-2021 11:36am

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

In week 6 of this year (Feb 8th to 14th) there were 9 construction related cases.

There were 6,041 total cases that week.

There's no sense to this at all.

No proportionality or sense of perspective.

Another 5 weeks to go...

but construction was under lockdown too ??

you cant offer stats of the lockdown working as proof the lockdown should be lifted.

Corby Trouser Press · 01-03-2021 11:47am

sydthebeat wrote: »

but construction was under lockdown too ??

you cant offer stats of the lockdown working as proof the lockdown should be lifted.

How does that stat prove lockdown working?

Sector being 40% open = 9 cases per week.

Sector being 100% open = 22 cases per week.

Is that too high a number?

Does preventing another 13 extra cases a week justify 60k on PUP and 17k houses on pause?

Proportionality.

sydthebeat · 01-03-2021 12:01pm

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

How does that stat prove lockdown working?

showing the case numbers attributed to construction when construction is severely restricted is not an argument to open construction.
its a logical fallacy.

Look, im all for construction restrictions to be relaxed, i think any out door work where you can social distance should be absolutely allowed.

but im also for cogent arguments to be made in favour of relaxing the restrictions.

Corby Trouser Press · 01-03-2021 12:37pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

showing the case numbers attributed to construction when construction is severely restricted is not an argument to open construction.
its a logical fallacy.

Look, im all for construction restrictions to be relaxed, i think any out door work where you can social distance should be absolutely allowed.

but im also for cogent arguments to be made in favour of relaxing the restrictions.

It is a cogent argument though.

There is no point pretending there will be no extra cases if the industry is fully reopened again.

The point is that while the virus was transmitting 6k cases a week a partially opened sector was contributing an absolutely negligable amount to the total.

sydthebeat · 01-03-2021 12:45pm

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

It is a cogent argument though.

There is no point pretending there will be no extra cases if the industry is fully reopened again.

The point is that while the virus was transmitting 6k cases a week a partially opened sector was contributing an absolutely negligable amount to the total.

the reason for closing down construction was never about the onsite work practises, it was about movement of people when the case numbers were high

until the case numbers come down to low three figures i cant see there being any appetite within he government of nphet to open things up again.

and again just to reiterate, i dont agree with the severe restrictions but i can see the reason for them.

Corby Trouser Press · 01-03-2021 12:58pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

the reason for closing down construction was never about the onsite work practises, it was about movement of people when the case numbers were high

until the case numbers come down to low three figures i cant see there being any appetite within he government of nphet to open things up again.

and again just to reiterate, i dont agree with the severe restrictions but i can see the reason for them.

I presume you meant government or NPHET but the phrase government of NPHET is actually closer to the truth as they are running the show completely.

Every restriction seems reasonable when you look at it strictly through the prism of Covid transmission.

But people have to get on with their work and get on with their lives.

No other construction workforce is being asked to sit at home for months on end apart from Ireland's.

scwazrh · 01-03-2021 1:59pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

the reason for closing down construction was never about the onsite work practises, it was about movement of people when the case numbers were high

until the case numbers come down to low three figures i cant see there being any appetite within he government of nphet to open things up again.

and again just to reiterate, i dont agree with the severe restrictions but i can see the reason for them.

That may have been the idea behind it but it doesn’t work in practice. One of our sites would usually have between 15-20 tradesmen on it. It’s closed now so zero on site but at least 11 of those tradesmen are currently doing nixers in private houses. It would be of been far safer to keep them on one site with good COVID practices in place .

Pink11 · 02-03-2021 1:48am

We scrimped and saved to buy a house. Now we’re about to go into debt after another month paying rent and mortgage

beyond upset and frustrated from the stress and worry, as is our builder.

billybonkers · 02-03-2021 12:20pm

Pink11 wrote: »

We scrimped and saved to buy a house. Now we’re about to go into debt after another month paying rent and mortgage beyond upset and frustrated from the stress and worry, as is our builder.

What have the bank to say about all this? Surely they can be a bit lenient to you

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 2:13pm

I got a reply from the HSE after I outlined my issue. It's a link to here with a copy and paste of the text! https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction, nothing else!

scwazrh · 02-03-2021 2:20pm

Cienciano wrote: »

I got a reply from the HSE after I outlined my issue. It's a link to here with a copy and paste of the text! https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction, nothing else!

Standard response unfortunately. It appears the way people are moving is to go ahead and ask for forgiveness afterwards if questioned which is unlikely

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 2:41pm

Yeah, the current process is, go ahead if you think it's emergency and falls into the above criteria. If someone complains, we'll investigate. If not, you're grand

jayjay2010 · 02-03-2021 4:34pm

There are 3 new houses being built near me, I would say 80% complete and I was surprised to see that they are still being worked on despite Level 5 restrictions. I don’t believe that they are social housing. Any way for me to find out? More curious than anything!

Frozen Veg · 02-03-2021 5:37pm

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

wolfyboy555 · 02-03-2021 6:23pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

True. Private buyers waiting on completion of new build estates overlooked too.

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 9:18pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

Exactly what my builder said. 2 of us working and paying tax and he cannot build for us but if he was working on social housing he'd be fine.

sydthebeat · 02-03-2021 9:32pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

thats a question that should be aimed at your local TD

Wildly Boaring · 02-03-2021 9:38pm

Pretty obvious really.

Any state contracts are pushing on.

They got a raft of claims for delay last March and gave avoided that by allowing social housing and any "essential" infrastructure continue.

So Irish water and TII have stopped nothing.
I mean is a new aeration tank for energy efficiency at a sewerage plant any more essential than a private housing estate?

They got hammered last year from every side.

CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

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