CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

Private Joker

We are in a very precarious situation with our renovation. We have rear access to the site until the start of May. Then the site behind us starts work. If we don't have at least the structure up( we're going with sips) and the ground works done we are in trouble.
We have underpinning to do which but would that be considered essential?

the_pen_turner

Private Joker wrote: »

We are in a very precarious situation with our renovation. We have rear access to the site until the start of May. Then the site behind us starts work. If we don't have at least the structure up( we're going with sips) and the ground works done we are in trouble.
We have underpinning to do which but would that be considered essential?

not under the current rules unfortunitly.
site behind probably wont start on time either

Private Joker

the_pen_turner wrote: »

not under the current rules unfortunitly.
site behind probably wont start on time either

Underpinning is to remedy an existing structural problem, would that not be covered . We have benn told that the contractor for the site behind is ready to go in may.
Its very worrying.

the_pen_turner

Private Joker wrote: »

Underpinning is to remedy an existing structural problem, would that not be covered . We have benn told that the contractor for the site behind is ready to go in may.
Its very worrying.

doesnt sound like a repair situation. more like renovation and expansion.
hard to tell.

Private Joker

the_pen_turner wrote: »

doesnt sound like a repair situation. more like renovation and expansion.
hard to tell.

Its both to be honest. I don't want to start the works and be told to stop.
We have a semi basement that we want to make habitable but the back wall of the house is showing signs of creep. So the structural engineer has said that it will need to be underpinned. Which will also mean the replacement of steel columns holding up the floor above the basement as they are only half way up the back wall.
Can it wait 2 months? probably. But when the ground starts drying out the problem will get worse.
It was a bodged job by the previous owner, just done to sell.

the_pen_turner

Private Joker wrote: »

Its both to be honest. I don't want to start the works and be told to stop.
We have a semi basement that we want to make habitable but the back wall of the house is showing signs of creep. So the structural engineer has said that it will need to be underpinned. Which will also mean the replacement of steel columns holding up the floor above the basement as they are only half way up the back wall.
Can it wait 2 months? probably. But when the ground starts drying out the problem will get worse.
It was a bodged job by the previous owner, just done to sell.

thats the way you need to phrase it. thats a safety issue and threatening your home. in that case you should be allowed to make it safe. especially if you have a report

Cienciano

I've an extension with no roof on it. Builder actually had covid, but has recovered thank god. Is finishing a roof considered ok? Fair enough not doing the internal work. Builder reckons the house if fine without the roof and we can replace some wooden floor boards. It had no roof since before christmas. I'd rather get the roof on to keep the elements out. Anyone know if that's considered "emergency" work? Emergency work just keeping the structure standing?

Frozen Veg

Cienciano wrote: »

I've an extension with no roof on it. Builder actually had covid, but has recovered thank god. Is finishing a roof considered ok? Fair enough not doing the internal work. Builder reckons the house if fine without the roof and we can replace some wooden floor boards. It had no roof since before christmas. I'd rather get the roof on to keep the elements out. Anyone know if that's considered "emergency" work? Emergency work just keeping the structure standing?

Apologies edit. Misread post.

scwazrh

Frozen Veg wrote: »

It's open to interpretation. Hard to see how anyone could challenge you on that basis.

This is the problem though, it’s not open to interpretation at all. If it’s essential work it can be done otherwise it can’t. Is putting a roof on to protect some flooring getting damaged essential ? Obviously not.
I know plenty of people are looking for and finding loopholes to ignore the rules but plenty of people break the rules all the time , doesn’t make it right .

Gumbo

Private Joker wrote: »

Underpinning is to remedy an existing structural problem, would that not be covered . We have benn told that the contractor for the site behind is ready to go in may.
Its very worrying.

Is the Commencement Notice lodged?

Cienciano

scwazrh wrote: »

This is the problem though, it’s not open to interpretation at all. If it’s essential work it can be done otherwise it can’t. Is putting a roof on to protect some flooring getting damaged essential ? Obviously not.
I know plenty of people are looking for and finding loopholes to ignore the rules but plenty of people break the rules all the time , doesn’t make it right .

Nothing is going to collapse over it. Although the entire house is open, lots of walls knocked down downstairs, no doors anywhere so the inside is really damp with all the wind and rain. So, "essential" is the word here, it's open to interpretation. Is it "essential" from a safety point of view? No.

Corby Trouser Press

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-can-we-expect-in-today-s-revised-living-with-covid-plan-1.4492014

"Privately, and bluntly, one Government source says: “The only thing that’s going to happen between [now and] the end of April and May is the schools”."

So... house building could potentially not be allowed restart properly until June.

Frozen Veg

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-can-we-expect-in-today-s-revised-living-with-covid-plan-1.4492014

"Privately, and bluntly, one Government source says: “The only thing that’s going to happen between [now and] the end of April and May is the schools”."

So... house building could potentially not be allowed restart properly until June.

Good job we're not in the middle of a housing crisis.

At what point does it become unconstitutional to stop someone building their home?

Such a stressful situation for people.

Corby Trouser Press

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Good job we're not in the middle of a housing crisis.

At what point does it become unconstitutional to stop someone building their home?

Such a stressful situation for people.

Tom Parlon from CIF was just on Claire Byrne.

Tom "Construction is fully open in the rest of the world, the UK, Europe, America..."

Claire "There's half a million people dead in America from Covid!!!"

That's where we are at at this stage.

Hysterical nonsense from our national broadcaster as usual.

LCD

It is so frustrating. In fairness I am in a better situation than some here, we are not under pressure to get out of our current home.
I have been speaking to a few electricians & they are saying they won't go onto sites as is too obvious to the Garda that they are working. Instead they are calling to 5+ houses a day doing nixers. Reality is they would be safer on a one off build, working with just 1 or 2 others.

ZeroSum76

muffler wrote: »

This is very much a fact filled thread in a fact filled forum so posting grossly exaggerated data isnt appreciated.

Exaggerated data? Pffft. I didn't post any data - just a personal subjective exaggerated assumption... so it should have been obvious... also the use of the words "probably" and "more or less " should have underscored that. I don't think anyone was going to be mislead by that.

However I do get the message.

Cienciano

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Good job we're not in the middle of a housing crisis.

At what point does it become unconstitutional to stop someone building their home?

Such a stressful situation for people.

Yeah, it's poxy. I sold at the end of 2019 but the sale fell through because of covid. Finally sold again after the first original lockdown. Moved around August to a temporary place, all my stuff is in storage. Builder started work on my new place in November. Hasn't been touched since before christmas. Was thinking I'd be in now. But the place is a shell. God knows when we finish and move in. This is all with 2 kids. If fúcking hurling and gaelic football goes back before construction, I'm chaining myself to the gates of Dail Eireann :pac:

Faith

We bought a new build house in December. Foundations are in, and they'd just started the external walls before Christmas. It's a small phase in an existing development, just 7 houses being built. Before all of this, completion was expected in April. They'd hoped to make up time and complete in May when the construction closure was announced to continue to March 5th. I'm wondering if anyone could guesstimate as to timelines for completion once construction starts up again?

I'm in the cohort of people living in temporary accommodation, and that ends in mid-May. I've no idea what we'll do afterwards - it's looking like we might have to get a rental lease somewhere and pray for a flexible landlord, because we don't really have any other options. Trouble is, we live in a small town popular with tourists, and summer will be the absolute worst time to be looking for anything temporary. It's fairly f*cking stressful, tbh.

Cienciano

Faith wrote: »

We bought a new build house in December. Foundations are in, and they'd just started the external walls before Christmas. It's a small phase in an existing development, just 7 houses being built. Before all of this, completion was expected in April. They'd hoped to make up time and complete in May when the construction closure was announced to continue to March 5th. I'm wondering if anyone could guesstimate as to timelines for completion once construction starts up again?

I'm in the cohort of people living in temporary accommodation, and that ends in mid-May. I've no idea what we'll do afterwards - it's looking like we might have to get a rental lease somewhere and pray for a flexible landlord, because we don't really have any other options. Trouble is, we live in a small town popular with tourists, and summer will be the absolute worst time to be looking for anything temporary. It's fairly f*cking stressful, tbh.

Mine is an existing house getting renovated. Temp accommodation is very hard to find, I'm lucky to get one. Most landlords aren't interested in temporary lease as they'd rather longer term. Even air b&b is an option. But if you want something for about 5 weeks the price is mental. I contacted a load to see if they'd do 5 weeks for cheaper than the website quotes but they generally aren't interested. They'd rather leave it empty if you don't go through the website. Think part of the problem is people rent them through agents on air b&b. Plus, if you put in a month or 2 you need, if it's occupied at all during that time it won't come up as available.
If you're near dublin, Premier Apartments were the best I found, they offered short term at a half decent rate and were helpful. You could actually talk to someone on the phone rather than through emails. They're apartments in Sandyford. Letting agents were a waste of time as apparently the percentage they get from short term is small so they ignore any short term enquiries.

km79

Found this nugget in the middle of the last indo article
“ It is expected construction will return in April, but the ban on building will remain in place next month despite Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien saying he expected to return on March 5”

WTF

malinheader

km79 wrote: »

Found this nugget in the middle of the last indo article
“ It is expected construction will return in April, but the ban on building will remain in place next month despite Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien saying he expected to return on March 5”

WTF

They haven't a balls notion what they are at.
All these restriction announcements made yesterday and they are still trying to decide who has to mandatory quarantine when coming into the country.
Not be surprised if another different variant stops any easing during April.

km79

Actually hold on I’ve reread that
It probably actually means March .
I’m tired and frustrated so that got the better of me I think !
Still no guarantees though and it does say that it will be staggered

ADO

So frustrated, our new build home was due to be finished end of Feb, it's now 5 weeks behind due to lock downs, now add on another 6 weeks and lord knows how many more lock downs in the meantime. We cant even get a valuation report done so as that we can move for AIP to Loan offer.

Corby Trouser Press

km79 wrote: »

Actually hold on I’ve reread that
It probably actually means March .
I’m tired and frustrated so that got the better of me I think !
Still no guarantees though and it does say that it will be staggered

The last easing of Construction restrictions was set for March 5th... a Friday

The next easing is set for April 5th... which is Easter Monday

They really are clueless... and I hate using simplistic terms like that about politicians but there's just a lack of thought about the practicalities even of getting restarted.

fits

We need to build a wall and put up gates. Our house is fully open onto a quietish road at present and I’m getting increasingly worried that my kids will run out onto it at the wrong time. One has special needs and no road sense at all. Foundations are down and pillars up for gates. I’d there anyway of determining whether this is essential ?

sydthebeat

fits wrote: »

We need to build a wall and put up gates. Our house is fully open onto a quietish road at present and I’m getting increasingly worried that my kids will run out onto it at the wrong time. One has special needs and no road sense at all. Foundations are down and pillars up for gates. I’d there anyway of determining whether this is essential ?

YOU make that decision, and be able to argue it if challenged.

To be honest I wouldnt even consider the erection of a wall and gates to be "construction"

ZeroSum76

fits wrote: »

We need to build a wall and put up gates. Our house is fully open onto a quietish road at present and I’m getting increasingly worried that my kids will run out onto it at the wrong time. One has special needs and no road sense at all. Foundations are down and pillars up for gates. I’d there anyway of determining whether this is essential ?

You can contact the HSE and they will give you a definitive answer based on the guidelines.

SEPT 23 1989

fits wrote: »

We need to build a wall and put up gates. Our house is fully open onto a quietish road at present and I’m getting increasingly worried that my kids will run out onto it at the wrong time. One has special needs and no road sense at all. Foundations are down and pillars up for gates. I’d there anyway of determining whether this is essential ?

I would go ahead let the guards arrive if that even happens

It would take a real bad egg of a cop not to just get back into the car after you explain your circumstances

fits

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

You can contact the HSE and they will give you a definitive answer based on the guidelines.

Thanks. I appreciate all replies. Would just like to know where we stand too.

Gumbo

Faith wrote: »

We bought a new build house in December. Foundations are in, and they'd just started the external walls before Christmas. It's a small phase in an existing development, just 7 houses being built. Before all of this, completion was expected in April. They'd hoped to make up time and complete in May when the construction closure was announced to continue to March 5th. I'm wondering if anyone could guesstimate as to timelines for completion once construction starts up again?

I'm in the cohort of people living in temporary accommodation, and that ends in mid-May. I've no idea what we'll do afterwards - it's looking like we might have to get a rental lease somewhere and pray for a flexible landlord, because we don't really have any other options. Trouble is, we live in a small town popular with tourists, and summer will be the absolute worst time to be looking for anything temporary. It's fairly f*cking stressful, tbh.

July/august at the earliest.

Faith

Gumbo wrote: »

July/august at the earliest.

Cheers Gumbo, that’s what I was thinking. We’ll just have to rent somewhere else and settle in there for a while. At least it means we can take our time getting the new place set up.

Cienciano

scwazrh wrote: »

This is the problem though, it’s not open to interpretation at all. If it’s essential work it can be done otherwise it can’t. Is putting a roof on to protect some flooring getting damaged essential ? Obviously not.
I know plenty of people are looking for and finding loopholes to ignore the rules but plenty of people break the rules all the time , doesn’t make it right .

I contacted some people over this and putting a roof on actually is considered essential! Going to forward it onto the builder.

scwazrh

Cienciano wrote: »

I contacted some people over this and putting a roof on actually is considered essential! Going to forward it onto the builder.

I’d love to know who and I ask as building contractor currently sitting at home . I have spoken to CIF , HSE and Local Garda and all have referred me to gov.ie level 5 guidelines. No where there does it state that a roof can be put on a private house.

veep

Cienciano wrote: »

I contacted some people over this and putting a roof on actually is considered essential! Going to forward it onto the builder.

Who please? We're in the same boat.

Cienciano

veep wrote: »

Who please? We're in the same boat.

I contacted a TD (my first time ever doing it!) and they told me that roofing was considered emergency but they don't have the authority to give the go ahead. Told me to contact the local gardai station or the HSE. Gardai said if we feel the work is emergency that's fine, emergency doesn't mean peoples lives are at risk. If your home is at risk of damage is what is considered an emergency, which mine is.


This is the bit a TD quoted:
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction

supply and delivery of essential or emergency maintenance and repair services to businesses and places of residence (including electrical, gas, oil, plumbing, glazing and roofing services) on an emergency call-out basis

ZeroSum76

Cienciano wrote: »

I contacted a TD (my first time ever doing it!) and they told me that roofing was considered emergency but they don't have the authority to give the go ahead. Told me to contact the local gardai station or the HSE. Gardai said if we feel the work is emergency that's fine, emergency doesn't mean peoples lives are at risk. If your home is at risk of damage is what is considered an emergency, which mine is.


This is the bit a TD quoted:
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction

Pot luck on how responsible or sympathetic your local Garda is then. I asked a similar question to my local Gardai and they would not comment either way. I would wager if you asked the HSE you might get a different response.

DOCARCH

Cienciano wrote: »

I contacted some people over this and putting a roof on actually is considered essential! Going to forward it onto the builder.

What did your builder say?

Not sure this....

Cienciano wrote: »

....putting a roof on...

Is the same as 'essential or emergency maintenance and repair service'?

ZeroSum76

Exactly.

"emergency maintenance and repair"

scwazrh

Another example of people trying to find loopholes to keep going .

Cienciano

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Pot luck on how responsible or sympathetic your local Garda is then. I asked a similar question to my local Gardai and they would not comment either way. I would wager if you asked the HSE you might get a different response.

A garda isn't going to argue details. I guarantee the HSE won't reply to an email.

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Exactly.

"emergency maintenance and repair"

That's exactly what it is. Have an email from 2 TD's and a gardai saying they're happy with it.

ZeroSum76

Cienciano wrote: »

A garda isn't going to argue details. I guarantee the HSE won't reply to an email.



That's exactly what it is. Have an email from 2 TD's and a gardai saying they're happy with it.

I asked the Gardai and a Councillor and TD and they said "that sounds reasonable but it's not my call" and I asked the HSE who could make a final call and they said definitively "No".

I suspect if you are hell bent on going ahead you can avoid asking the people who will give you a definitive answer.

The HSE answered me both times I asked them. Within 48 hours.

DOCARCH

Cienciano wrote: »

That's exactly what it is. Have an email from 2 TD's and a gardai saying they're happy with it.

A new roof does not, in my opinion, equate to "emergency maintenance and repair"?

I suspect you may have been a bit liberal with your description?

Will your builder do the work?

muffler

Putting a roof on a new house under construction isn't an emergency repair. For what it's worth I wish it was but we have to maintain the lockdown.

scwazrh

DOCARCH wrote: »

A new roof does not, in my opinion, equate to "emergency maintenance and repair"?

Agreed.
This is simply a case of not wanting to wait until level 5 restrictions are over .It’s no different than the report of people booking a dentist appointment in Tenerife to justify going there for two weeks.

Cienciano

muffler wrote: »

Putting a roof on a new house under construction isn't an emergency repair. For what it's worth I wish it was but we have to maintain the lockdown.

It's not a house under construction. It's an extension on an existing house. If it was just the extension exposed or it was a new house I wouldn't mind. The fact that the internals of the house are completely open so the existing house is being ruined is my problem.

Cienciano

DOCARCH wrote: »

A new roof does not, in my opinion, equate to "emergency maintenance and repair"?

I suspect you may have been a bit liberal with your description?

Will your builder do the work?

Haven't talked to him yet. I contacted the HSA after ZeroSum said they got back to him after 48 hours. I won't talk to the builder till they get back.

The "new" roof is the bit alright. Funny, we had to remove part of an existing roof from an older extension as the new extension was going beside it. Both roofs were off before christmas, old and new. If we built the brand new roof first, we'd be ok to replace the older one as it would be considered maintenance.

Frozen Veg

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Pot luck on how responsible or sympathetic your local Garda is then. I asked a similar question to my local Gardai and they would not comment either way. I would wager if you asked the HSE you might get a different response.

The HSE have nothing to do with construction.

Frozen Veg

scwazrh wrote: »

Agreed.
This is simply a case of not wanting to wait until level 5 restrictions are over .It’s no different than the report of people booking a dentist appointment in Tenerife to justify going there for two weeks.

It's very different.

DOCARCH

Cienciano wrote: »

Haven't talked to him yet.

Might be worth talking to him?

If you go to all the trouble of chasing up somebody to give you the 'green light' to do the work, your can't insist you builder actually do the work during a lockdown.

ZeroSum76

Frozen Veg wrote: »

The HSE have nothing to do with construction.

You're being obtuse. The HSE have set out the guidelines on behalf of the Government and the Gardaí are being asked to enforce based on that.