Tesla Model 3

25-01-2017 8:10pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Ha!

So would it be hospitals or schools you'd cut back on to abolish VAT?

Don't be fooled, most of the money is going to pay a bank bailout, not into schools, hospitals or paying the "poor teachers"

I'm all for a fair system , 23% VAT and VRT is pure extortion nothing more.

25-01-2017 8:11pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

People driving cars particularly cars directly powered by fossil fuels costs the state a fortune, so it is only right that they are taxed.

Hardly a rip off.

It's not as if you are getting nothing back for it.

What ?

Indricotherium · 25-01-2017 8:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What ?

Roads for a start.

They cost a fortune.

The damage to public health caused by diesel transport costs a fortune to mitigate, there's another.

25-01-2017 9:05pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Roads for a start.

They cost a fortune.

The damage to public health caused by diesel transport costs a fortune to mitigate, there's another.

You think the Government charge tax because of pollution ? the Irish Government continues to allow solid fuels to be burned as a form of heating, far worse than a modern Diesel . And a serious problem in rural villages and larger towns where they burn other solid fuels instead of smokey coal such as briquettes and turf. I see it in my own rural estate. The clouds of coal smoke is disgraceful.

Anyway, petrol and diesel is taxed enough but perhaps they can increase motor tax on ICE's. remember there are not nearly enough EV models to choose because car manufacturers continue to drag their heals and avoid making them so more tax on ICE's won't work.

What the Government could do is offer a good scrappage fro 10+ year old diesels and increase taxes like they did in france with great success.

Irish EV sales are extremely poor mainly because of Irish misconceptions of electrics and general lack of interest.

eeguy · 25-01-2017 9:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish EV sales are extremely poor mainly because of Irish misconceptions of electrics and general lack of interest.

I'd say its because although an EV will work 9 out of 10 times, that one time is whats putting people off them.

Give them another 2 or 3 years and sales will take off.

Water John · 25-01-2017 9:55pm

Not to get side tracked but facts are important in any discussion. Ask Donald Trump.
Just pointing out the bank debt added about 20/30% to the overall debt caused by the economic downturn. Its not the majority of it, by any means.

Now back to Tesla.
Even if there are inevitable delays. Delighted that everything adds to the momentum of EVs.

The Rooster · 26-01-2017 9:56am

Water John wrote: »

Not to get side tracked but facts are important in any discussion. Ask Donald Trump.
Just pointing out the bank debt added about 20/30% to the overall debt caused by the economic downturn. Its not the majority of it, by any means.

Now back to Tesla.
Even if there are inevitable delays. Delighted that everything adds to the momentum of EVs.

Indeed. VAT went up from 21% to 23% due to the economic downturn. So 20%/30% of that increase can be blamed on the banks. So less than 1% VAT is due to the bank bailout - but yeah people still fall for the "Don't be fooled, most of the money is going to pay a bank bailout" lines. It's no wonder the loony left and loony rights are getting so many votes in this and other countries.

VRT is tough in this country alright, as I said (particularly painful when importing a car I find cause you have to write a separate cheque!).
At least there's a grant for new EVs bought here to alleviate some of this.

unkel · 26-01-2017 11:39am

The Rooster wrote: »

VRT is tough in this country alright, as I said (particularly painful when importing a car

Zero VRT for importing most EVs

Scottie99 · 30-01-2017 9:57am

unkel wrote: »

Zero VRT for importing most EVs

I think it's up to 35k at 0% then 14% thereafter

unkel · 30-01-2017 12:17pm

Aye it's a €5k discount on the VRT so cars up to about €35k are exempt. I don't think many second handEVs over €35k were ever imported into this country though

zilog_jones · 30-01-2017 3:18pm

7 used Teslas imported last year

unkel · 30-01-2017 5:20pm

2015 Model S around £50k - you're giving me ideas

With an OMSP of say €60k the VRT would be €8,400 (14%) minus €5k discount so just €3,400

eeguy · 30-01-2017 5:39pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

7 used Teslas imported last year

I saw a Model S charging just off Pearse St a few weeks back.

cros13 · 31-01-2017 12:07am

unkel wrote: »

2015 Model S around £50k - you're giving me ideas

With an OMSP of say €60k the VRT would be €8,400 (14%) minus €5k discount so just €3,400

Two of the multiple-brand SIMI dealers put up old 2012 85Ds for over €100k for the express purpose of goosing the OMSP. They were at more than double the price on the open market in the UK.

We'll have to wait until Tesla themselves bring in certified pre-owned to get the OMSP down.

unkel · 31-01-2017 11:33am

Do you know (maybe from people who cleared a model S) what the OMSP is per year on a base model?

cros13 · 31-01-2017 1:57pm

unkel wrote: »

Do you know (maybe from people who cleared a model S) what the OMSP is per year on a base model?

I don't know anyone who brought in a base model. I do know someone who brought in a P90DL before Tesla announced local pricing that got assessed OMSP of €165k.

unkel · 31-01-2017 2:28pm

Tesla did announce local pricing? Actual Irish prices? Of new and second hand cars?

Sabre Man · 31-01-2017 5:09pm

unkel wrote: »

Tesla did announce local pricing? Actual Irish prices? Of new and second hand cars?

You can configure new cars and see the Irish prices in the design studio:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/models/design

unkel · 31-01-2017 5:22pm

€82k new, so they couldn't possibly put up an OMSP of more than €55k or €60k for a '15? Even at that, it would probably be wiser to buy new. Although the new ones do not come with free charging for life, I believe? When was the cut-off point and how would you know if your car qualifies? Not a huge issue in Ireland, but if you do a lot of driving in continental Europe it would make a big difference.

31-01-2017 5:26pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

You can configure new cars and see the Irish prices in the design studio:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/models/design

Some mental prices there, Christ ! mad !

cros13 · 31-01-2017 5:27pm

unkel wrote: »

€82k new, so they couldn't possibly put up an OMSP of more than €55k or €60k for a '15? Even at that, it would probably be wiser to buy new.

I'd be wary of Revenue over-estimating the OMSP and having to put the money down while appealing. Things will be a lot more certain once Tesla sells a few certified used models here.

unkel wrote: »

Although the new ones do not come with free charging for life, I believe? When was the cut-off point and how would you know if your car qualifies?

Orders placed by January 15th. At least on Tesla's CPO whether a car has free lifetime charging or not will be on the listing.

31-01-2017 5:30pm

There should be 0 VRT on all electrics, they need to do as much as possible to get as many electrics on the road as they can.

serfboard · 31-01-2017 8:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There should be 0 VRT on all electrics, they need to do as much as possible to get as many electrics on the road as they can.

Whatever about from just the climate change aspect, for a country that has no oil of its own, but which does have the capacity to generate renewable energy, you would think this would be a no-brainer.

31-01-2017 9:21pm

Well if we electrify our transport then we'd find out how difficult it would be for renewable energy to meet a fraction of what it meets today. People really underestimate the Kwh's in petrol and diesel.

isnottheword · 31-01-2017 9:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if we electrify our transport then we'd find out how difficult it would be for renewable energy to meet a fraction of what it meets today. People really underestimate the Kwh's in petrol and diesel.

Renewables could be ideal for mass EV charging. With home power storage units now becoming affordable and inducements to charge at night, wind energy can be used at times when it may otherwise not be needed. That has always been one of the great difficulties with wind - either too much power - not enough power - and timing of those 2 extremes.

31-01-2017 9:54pm

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

However the more electricity we use the more we can add wind energy but we need to add a lot of solar PV but at some point it will become bonkers to think we can meet close to all our electricity needs with renewable energy. The amount of land needed would be enormous, we need to go off shore.

cros13 · 31-01-2017 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

The grid is designed around the peak demand. We could switch 40% of the entire fleet to BEV today and only require minor upgrades to the local low voltage network.

Moving 100% of transport could be done with comparatively little extra generation.

n97 mini · 31-01-2017 10:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but my point is that if on a windy day we can produce 60% of our electricity (limited by the grid) and we have say 100,000 electric vehicles charging at 3-6 Kw , that's a hell of a lot of extra electricity to generate, off peak generation can be around 4GW

However the more electricity we use the more we can add wind energy but we need to add a lot of solar PV but at some point it will become bonkers to think we can meet close to all our electricity needs with renewable energy. The amount of land needed would be enormous, we need to go off shore.

Someone linked an Eirgrid document here... Large scale solar PV ain't gonna happen here any time soon. I visited Ivanpah in Nevada during the summer and they're even having trouble making that pay!

isnottheword · 31-01-2017 10:29pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Someone linked an Eirgrid document here... Large scale solar PV ain't gonna happen here any time soon. I visited Ivanpah in Nevada during the summer and they're even having trouble making that pay!

Has to get cheaper & more efficient before it becomes viable here.

Wind is perfect for EV.

Scottie99 · 06-02-2017 11:26am

Deposit placed with Tesla under the Mrs name (strategic). Now for the second launch, hopefully the middle or top range won't be much more expensive.
It's been suggested Tesla won't allow you to individually customise your car like the S and X. Tesla will give 3 or 4 options like traditional car purchases.
I know Tesla isn't traditional..

Scottie99 · 06-02-2017 7:13pm

Seems they've picked a location for their outlet. (Second image)

JayeL · 08-02-2017 5:22pm

Ah now here, Castle Street? Like, the scuzzy little street between Dublin Castle and the top of Dame Street? If Tesla are seriously going to open a store beside Burdocks chipper and the Lord Edward (as wonderful as they are), good luck to them but my guess is that's a random pin on the map signifying 'Dublin' as opposed to the actual location, next to 'World of Elegance' hair & beauty salon.....

thelikelylad · 08-02-2017 10:45pm

JayeL wrote: »

Ah now here, Castle Street? Like, the scuzzy little street between Dublin Castle and the top of Dame Street? If Tesla are seriously going to open a store beside Burdocks chipper and the Lord Edward (as wonderful as they are), good luck to them but my guess is that's a random pin on the map signifying 'Dublin' as opposed to the actual location, next to 'World of Elegance' hair & beauty salon.....

Store and Service Centre is planned for Unit 92, Bracken Road, Sandyford, across the road from Audi.

There's some interesting pics/plans of the site on the DLR planning website.

Also it looks like the Supercharger site at J3/M8 Ballycolla was approved by Laois coco.

Exciting times!

eeguy · 08-02-2017 11:14pm

JayeL wrote: »

Ah now here, Castle Street? Like, the scuzzy little street between Dublin Castle and the top of Dame Street? If Tesla are seriously going to open a store beside Burdocks chipper and the Lord Edward (as wonderful as they are), good luck to them but my guess is that's a random pin on the map signifying 'Dublin' as opposed to the actual location, next to 'World of Elegance' hair & beauty salon.....

I presumed it was a charger station, not a store

cros13 · 09-02-2017 9:44am

So, Electrek are reporting on a test mule Tesla have driving around that is probably representative of a high specced Model 3. Dual motor, 70kWh battery. With a drag coefficient of 0.21, Electrek's math puts EPA cycle range around 490km.

With previous Tesla statements regarding the base single motor putting its range at 350km. That would track with the base battery being 50 - 55 kWh.

unkel · 09-02-2017 11:58am

0.21? Good grief, that is spectacularly good. Drive from Dublin to Cork doing 160km/h without having to charge. That's my idea of where I want EVs to be

eeguy · 09-02-2017 12:21pm

unkel wrote: »

0.21? Good grief, that is spectacularly good. Drive from Dublin to Cork doing 160km/h without having to charge. That's my idea of where I want EVs to be

I think EV's are near tipping point to where range isn't the main factor putting people off them.

cros13 · 09-02-2017 12:24pm

More news today. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-model-idUSKBN15N2W7

Reuters are reporting Tesla will be shutting down X and S production at the Fremont factory for the first pilot production run of the model 3 on February 20th.

The downtime will also allow for necessary upgrades to the paint shop and metal presses.

09-02-2017 12:28pm

I don't understand why any one would put a deposit for a car they haven't even seen, less driven

KCross · 09-02-2017 12:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why any one would put a deposit for a car they haven't even seen, less driven

Even if I saw it I dont think I'd want the first "batch" off the line of any new car be it EV or ICE. Got burned once with that and wont repeat it, if at all possible.

Unless the warranty was sufficiently good that the issues didnt cost me. 5yrs on everything, at least.

Whats the warranty on a Model 3 going to be?... not the battery but all the other stuff... chargers, inverters, handles, switches etc.?

cros13 · 09-02-2017 1:02pm

KCross wrote: »

Whats the warranty on a Model 3 going to be?... not the battery but all the other stuff... chargers, inverters, handles, switches etc.?

8 years on the drive train (battery, motor, chargers inverters), 3 years on everything else.

I wouldn't be too worried, the first right hand drive units won't be coming off the line until more than a year into production.

unkel · 09-02-2017 1:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why any one would put a deposit for a car they haven't even seen, less driven

The car will be good, there's no doubt about it. And there will be issues, that Tesla will address. Their warranty is good too.

So if you are interested in the car, to be one of the first people to get it in this country, you will have to put your €1,000 deposit down. Probably now-ish. If you don't mind waiting up to say a year after those people to get the car, then don't put a deposit down.

josip · 09-02-2017 1:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why any one would put a deposit for a car they haven't even seen, less driven

There would be some similarities to buying apartments off plans during our glory years when we were the toast of the world.
But one difference between the apartments and the Model 3 is that you knew how much the apartment would cost whenever it was ready.

eeguy · 09-02-2017 1:30pm

josip wrote: »

There would be some similarities to buying apartments off plans during our glory years when we were the toast of the world.
But one difference between the apartments and the Model 3 is that you knew how much the apartment would cost whenever it was ready.

In some cases those apartments were never finished

Personally I'd love to be one of the first owners and based on model S and X reviews you're likely to get a cracking car. But the voice in my head tells me to hold off and wait. Both S and X were delayed so worst case, it could be 2019 or even 2020 before we get delivery.

Autonomous could really take off in that time, so you wouldn't know what kind of cars could be around the corner.

bk · 09-02-2017 1:35pm

josip wrote: »

There would be some similarities to buying apartments off plans during our glory years when we were the toast of the world.
But one difference between the apartments and the Model 3 is that you knew how much the apartment would cost whenever it was ready.

Well the deposit is refundable if you decide not to go ahead with the order. So it isn't really equivalent.

bk · 09-02-2017 1:37pm

eeguy wrote: »

Autonomous could really take off in that time, so you wouldn't know what kind of cars could be around the corner.

True, but then Tesla seems to be leading that area too. All their new Model S and X's are equipment with all the equipment needed for self driving, it is then just a software update.

The same might be possible for the Model 3.

eeguy · 09-02-2017 2:10pm

bk wrote: »

True, but then Tesla seems to be leading that area too. All their new Model S and X's are equipment with all the equipment needed for self driving, it is then just a software update.

The same might be possible for the Model 3.

Tesla are taking a step by step approach, while Ford and a few others are going straight for the "no steering wheel" approach. It'll be interesting to see which wins out in the near future.

Hulk Hands · 09-02-2017 3:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why any one would put a deposit for a car they haven't even seen, less driven

Because if I dont want it come the time after test driving it extensively, I get my money back. Making that extra fiver in interest from the savings account wouldnt quite make up for having to wait an extra 2 years to get potentially the best affordable car of our generation because I didnt stick a deposit down

Padraig Mor · 09-02-2017 3:45pm

Just noticed that the Model 3 reservation page has a 'pay later' option. Does that mean you can effectively add your name to the list without forking out any cash - or just that you get a few days to wire the money or something?

bk · 09-02-2017 3:49pm

eeguy wrote: »

Tesla are taking a step by step approach, while Ford and a few others are going straight for the "no steering wheel" approach. It'll be interesting to see which wins out in the near future.

What you mean is that Ford, etc. are fluting about in the lab with this technology, developing it in case they need it, but hoping that they won't need it or can at least delay it for as long as possible. Just as they are doing with EV's

The problem for car companies is that self driving cars will lead to on-demand driving services like Uber, which in the long term will massively reduce the demand for new cars.

Also BTW Tesla is also aiming for the no steering wheel approach (it probably will still have a steering wheel, you just don't have to use it), they are way ahead of anyone else on this.

Tesla Model 3

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