Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

country_gurl · 28-03-2004 12:57am

yeah but the i.t.'s dont always have the same courses. irish shud be seen as a foreign language so that ppl can choose whether to do irish or french and still have access to universitys.

simu · 28-03-2004 1:04am

Originally posted by mhairesa
shilim go bhfuil sé an tabhachtach go mbeidh gaeilge a mhunadh i scoileanna.

Mise leis. Ach ba chóir go mbeadh an cúrsa gnáthleibhéil bunaithe ar chumarsáid sa teanga labhartha agus gan litríocht a mhúineadh ach dos na daoine a dhéanann an t-árdleibhéal mar is dócha go mbíonn Gaeilge líofa ag an gcuid is mó dóibh sin cheanna féin.

GuanYin · 28-03-2004 1:17am

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil gaelige scriofá comh-tabhactach sin, ach bá choir dóibh an chúrsa a bhunú ar gaelige labharthá agus tuiscint ar nós an curse francais nó gearmáinais.

I mo thúraim beidh sé níos fearr an chúrsa a coimead mar bún-abhar (core subject) ach gan gá leis chun dul go dti ollscoil.

Gleanndún · 28-03-2004 2:13am

Originally posted by country_gurl
I also do French and I hate it can't stand it... but if i want to get into college i need a foreign language... but why... ? Shouldnt irish be sufficient enough? Why should you be forced into taking on a foreign language just so you can further your education?... but i enjoy the language so why can't i use it for entry to college? It should be optional but it also should be recognised as a language, maybe if it was people might take more interest in it and get entry to college instead of failing french or german. Slán go foill

it counts if u go 2 another country, i.e. uk, us, australia, &c. (just in case ur not comfy w ur french;)) u could come 2 cali 4 university, cali rox!:D

Originally posted by Vader
But iM GETTING VEvy OFF POINT HERE.
Irish isnt just an excuse for kids to get their first shift in the gaeltacht or a summer camp, its not just about a better understanding of irish litriure, or the faculty of thought it breeds. Heck its not even about making fun oy yanks. Its pride, its all those things mentioned above and more, its remaining ourselves when there is icredible pressure on us to conform to the american culture or the normal or cool way of life.

Its about understanding the past so we can prepare for the future and chose a path that suits us

look at wuts happening in japan, theyre trying 2 b more like the us, and they r, in all the gross and terrible ways (e.g. people sooting children fulla holes, the collapse of family structure n such:dunno: )

Vader · 28-03-2004 4:39pm

Originally posted by Gleanndún

look at wuts happening in japan, theyre trying 2 b more like the us, and they r, in all the gross and terrible ways (e.g. people sooting children fulla holes, the collapse of family structure n such:dunno:)

whos us? do you mean more like the US of A?

I dont think that thats the way we are at all, drive by shootings, substace abuse, promiscuous teens, tabloid televiosion agus le leithéid that are symbols of "western civilisation" are not as common as ppl think and more a product of american civilisation than of Irish or european.

(No Im not denying for a minute that these problems dont exist in Ireland, just not in the extent they do in america and elsewhere, thus that they are not part of our culture, but part of the american culture that is spreading around the world at the moment)

country_gurl · 28-03-2004 9:44pm

"(No Im not denying for a minute that these problems dont exist in Ireland, just not in the extent they do in america and elsewhere, thus that they are not part of our culture, but part of the american culture that is spreading around the world at the moment) [/B][/QUOTE]

I could have picked up ur msg wrong so i apologise if i did,
but of course there is going to be more in america than here they are bout 10 times bigger than us if not more and therefore there is more in america than there is in ireland. I'd say if you broke it down, ireland is just as bad, just look at the shootings this weekend and nearly every other weekend. I remember when i was smaller it was a big shock when a shooting happened, now people just shrug it off after giving it 2 mins thought. Anyway ireland is our language we should be proud, and those we don't want to speak it don't bother... but wouldn't it be nice to say that you have a unique language... a bit strange i grant u but unique all the same. Sin é

Vader · 28-03-2004 9:55pm

what I was trying to say was that the decline in ireland, ie that shootings arnt such a shock anymore, is a result of the result of the increasing american influence on our culture

Gleanndún · 29-03-2004 4:49am

i said THE us, THE us, i dont use caps, sorry:o i dont kno nething about the status of such things in ireland, but i kno its really bad here (THE us) and its getting very bad in japan, in accordance with their westernization (used 2 b almost inextant:()

Vader · 29-03-2004 8:22pm

sorry i missed the "THE":o

Gleanndún · 30-03-2004 5:31am

all g:p

C.Joyce · 09-06-2009 9:57pm

Just listen to this tool

(stecull)

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

Hoenestly like does anyone have pride in the country anymore???

Its our National Language
You hear people say " Why if German and French are optional, why isnt Irish??"

BECAUSE ITS OUR FKN NATIONAL LANGUAGE!!!!

How many German's do you hear saying " Why isnt German optional??"

Its because their bloody proud of their heritage and their language

This country needs to cop-on

Gaeilge abú

p.s Enda Kenny is a retard

Múinteoir · 10-06-2009 11:40am

Your man that you quote above comes across as such an idiot, that pity, rather than anger or disappointment, is the only emotion he invokes in me TBH. It must be terrible to be so filled with such illogical hate. People like that are just laughable and are not worth the bother of arguing with.

conchubhar1 · 11-06-2009 2:32am

i despise the argument of its useless and i wont use it so why is it compulsary argument

i hated maths, have never used it since - but it was important..... same, for different reasons, with irish

C.Joyce · 11-06-2009 5:06pm

You make a great point Múinteoir
What i dont understand is. why is everyone saying, "oooo every teenager hates Irish". I am 15, just finished my Junior Cert and I feel very strongly about the subject.
Adults need to stop putting words and theories in our mouths

Hellm0 wrote: »

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school!

I cant understand a) how closed minded some people are in this country and b) how stupid and irrational they are

Gaeilge go deo

C.Joyce · 11-06-2009 5:13pm

Vader wrote: »

But why make it compulsory? Try explaining the above to a teenager and all you'll get, is "ba cuma liom!". Nah but they all say, "OMG, youll never use it, and whats the point in maths when you can just use calcu;ators, why learn eng when you dont use it for txtn and whats the point in french when Im never goin to france."!

Thats the kind of thing I'm talking about

Redbhoy · 11-06-2009 5:22pm

Tell the People of Ireland that they're forbidden to speak Irish and see the language flourish shortly afterwards.

Why do we need Irish? Or French, German, History, Geography, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Accounting, Business Studies etc etc!

KeyLimePie · 11-06-2009 7:38pm

I like how the poll is equally divided.

My lithuanian co-worker gave me a lecture on not knowing irish cause when lithunia was under the iron curtain and the russians made them speak russian they still kept their lithuanian.....

so think about that.

dlofnep · 11-06-2009 8:28pm

Holy old thread batman?

Redbhoy · 12-06-2009 7:51am

dlofnep wrote: »

Holy old thread batman?

An-greannmhar!

But I dont think this topic will die out anytime soon.

Greyfox · 13-06-2009 4:40am

C.Joyce wrote: »

Just listen to this tool

(stecull)

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

Hoenestly like does anyone have pride in the country anymore???

Its our National Language
You hear people say " Why if German and French are optional, why isnt Irish??"

BECAUSE ITS OUR FKN NATIONAL LANGUAGE!!!!

How many German's do you hear saying " Why isnt German optional??"

Its because their bloody proud of their heritage and their language

This country needs to cop-on

Gaeilge abú

p.s Enda Kenny is a retard

Well I hate to break the news to you but a lot of people feel exactly the same way as the guy your unfairly calling a tool, you have to accept the fact that because Irish was poorly thought in a lot of schools and the fact that it's useless to the vast majority of people after the leaving cert theirs understandably going to be a lot of people who hate our native language.

What I find really insulting is the people that seem to think that just because I hate our native language I don't have pride in my country....this s**** is what makes me really p***ed off!

I've a lot of pride in my country and would never live abroad, I follow the GAA and I've seen riverdance live. I loved history in school and studied it in college so know more about Irish history then the majority of people on boards. My point is to turn around and say somebody is less Irish because they don't love a language that's only spoken fluently by a small minority is utter nonsense.

Yes but for the Germans and French their language isn't useless to them after the Lcert and their language is used in many other countries. Theirs practical reasons for learning other subjects like English and Maths etc but THEIR WAS NO PRACTICAL REASON for me to have to learn Irish for the Lcert, I haven't heard anybody (besides tv) speaking fluent Irish in about 10 years anyway. I think it was good for me to learn History, Geography, Business, Science etc as these are part of understanding the world around you and besides religion and Irish I have found at least something in every other subject in school that was of some value to me in life.

Fair play to TG4 and I've nothing against anybody who loves the Irish language but for those who hate the Irish language with a burning passion like myself were entitled to have their opinion as well without people accusing us of not having pride in where were from. Irish been compulsory for everyone IS forcing part of our culture down peoples throats and I don't believe culture is something that should ever be forced on people.

dlofnep · 14-06-2009 3:27pm

I don't think someone is less Irish for not wanting to pursue the language, but I would certainly be alarmed by someone who states that they "hate" a language. I doubt anyone really hates a language. They might dislike that despite studying it for years, they still can't use it - or dislike studying it because they consider it impractical.

Why do you hate Irish GreyFox? I'm genuinely curious.

Just a tidbit - on the Irish being practical issue - It's a practical aspect of my daily life, and everyone else I know who chose to learn it. It's becomes non-practical if you don't understand the language.

Greyfox · 14-06-2009 10:32pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Why do you hate Irish GreyFox? I'm genuinely curious.

I generally hate things that have been forced on me and I hate Irish because it was always my worst subject in school and I don't believe even one of the thousands of hours spent studying it were of any use to me which I really resent! At least some of all the other subjects were of some value to me.

Yes I accept that it's practical for a number of people but the way I see it is if someone who spoke fluent Irish stopped people on a busy Dublin street the vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue what the person was talking about because for most of the country their is no practical use for the language.

For those people that say Irish should remain compulsory what your accepting is the fact that your happy to force some people into hating our native language

dlofnep · 14-06-2009 10:39pm

Science and geography was useless to me, but I still stuck it out because it was apart of the curriculum. I'm not here to win you over, you've made up your mind and I respect that.

Regards to the language being a mandatory aspect of our curriculum - if it was not, it would be gone at a much quicker rate. Wales also has Welsh as a mandatory subject in school, but yet - they persevere and the language has seen an increase in usage, much the same as Irish has.

Would you be less irritated with the language if the curriculum was revised, so that you would at this point be able to speak it? Or would it not matter?

tolosenc · 14-06-2009 11:37pm

All primary schools should be Irish medium. My two cents.

Then both Irish Lit. and English Lit. could be optional in post-primary.

Redbhoy · 15-06-2009 11:02am

obl wrote: »

All primary schools should be Irish medium. My two cents.

Then both Irish Lit. and English Lit. could be optional in post-primary.

Je d'accord! I think that means I agree in French. I wasted (?) 5 years learning French in Secondary School. Ive got no use of it since.

All Irish medium primary schools is a great solution to this problem!

AlexderFranke · 26-06-2009 9:26am

Hello,

I am German and have learnt Irish because it is an old and beautiful language which had generated rich literature and oral tradition. I have been to Ireland two times and also used my Irish.
I think Irish should be cumpolsory in primary school. Every child should get in touch with the Irish language in Ireland in order to be able to develope good knowledge. The earlier you begin, the better.
But on the other hand it is no use forcing pupils to study Irish for 13 years if they have no interest in it. Those you have no interest in Irish will hate it and will forget most of it after leaving school. It is unbelievable for me that many Irish people reacted as if I spoke Chinese when I talked to them in Irish although they had learnt Irish at school! However I have also met a few people in Galway and Ennis who spoke Irish like native speakers.
Unfortunately Irish is not that important that everybody will see the use in everyday and professional life. Only those with interest will develope good command because they take part in Irish-speaking cultural activities and networks. But it has to be made sure that every secondary pupil who wants to can take Irish lessons or change to a Gaelscoil. In France there exists the opposite: Some pupils who want to take lessons in a regional language do not have the chance because their school does not offer it.
However in Gaeltacht areas Irish-medium schools should remain the only type of schools in order to keep the knowledge of Irish above the average of Ireland there.

Alex

Prolatarian · 02-07-2009 2:11pm

In my opinion there needs to be a big change as the way the laungauage is thought now a) dosent give moast people the ability to hold a basic conversation
and b) turns alot of people against the laungauage its self

i beleive that the best way forward is to have an irish class that is compulsory but focuses on the basics an is more based around conversational and listening irish than the written aspect,and to have an optional irish class based around the writter aspect and the potery etc that is seperate

Figment · 02-07-2009 2:30pm

This is not a dictatorship we live in. It seems pretty simple to me. If you want to be able to learn it then you should be able to. If not then fine.

Deedsie · 02-07-2009 2:57pm

Yes, but with some alterations to how its thought from baby infants upwards.

djcervi · 04-07-2009 6:53pm

Redbhoy wrote: »

Je d'accord!

Je suis d'accord, but whatever :pac:

Anyway Personally I think Irish should remain a complusory subject in schools. The problem that many people have is language acquistion. This in effect creates everybody's 'hatred' of the language. In English medium schools this is not emphasised greatly, as teachers may not be confident in speaking or bothered to use spoken Irish in class and to promote it in the classes. At the same time many teachers may have a good knowledge in the language, but do not have the best methods in teaching language to different types of people. i.e. people who learn in different ways. The Examinations Commission expects students of Irish to write essays and understand and answer questions on poetry, etc that many are not interested in. An important reason for this is that students are not taught the language necessary to undertake the study of Irish poetry, prose, etc.

IMO The best way to deal with this and to create confident and fluent Irish speakers is to create more all Irish language schools and promote Irish schooling. English medium schools need a suitable programme to promote language learning to native English speakers. The examination structure is vital. It probably would be better to create 2 separate exams. One which focuses on language, which is complusory. Another could be on literature, which is optional. Basic language skills need to be acquired before literature can continue the learning process, and furthermore be appreciated.

That's my 2 cents.

bpkirby · 21-06-2013 12:09pm

irish should be removed as a compulsory subject. It holds kids back in school. Useful foreign languages should be taught from primary level

Redbhoy · 21-06-2013 12:14pm

bpkirby wrote: »

irish should be removed as a compulsory subject. It holds kids back in school. Useful foreign languages should be taught from primary level

What is a useful foreign language? Maybe we should take all art and philosophy, history etc out of the curriculum and ask Google, Apple and the likes what they want us to learn so we can become good compliant worker drones?
Life isnt all about money and work. Broaden your horizons!

Insect Overlord · 21-06-2013 12:14pm

bpkirby wrote: »

irish should be removed as a compulsory subject. It holds kids back in school. Useful foreign languages should be taught from primary level

You're wrong there. Also, this thread is ancient. Please don't bump old threads just to wind people up.

Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

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