Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

Bard · 11-09-2001 1:16am #1

Testing out the "POST A POLL" option in vBulletin...

Question is:
"Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?"

Answer Yes, No, Don't Know or Don't Care...

SantaHoe · 11-09-2001 3:24am

I think hosting a poll like this on the Gaeilge board is a tad unfair, granted it's the most suitable board topic-wise, but I can't help feeling the results will be somewhat biased, based on the kind of people who are most interested in these boards.
(ie. Fluent Irish speakers who believe EVERYONE should have it rammed down their throat for the good of the nation, you only have to look at the other threads on this topic to see that)

Perhaps the After-Hours board would open the topic to a wider audience?
But I know you're not going to do that

Bard · 11-09-2001 5:39pm

to be perfectly honest, - I was just - as I said - trying out the 'create a poll' option in vBulletin. I wasn't expecting a huge response, I was just trying it out...

Volvagia · 11-09-2001 8:42pm

Even though your just trying the poll thingy out im gonna reply anyway. I believe that irish should be compulsory without a doubt! but a slightly different approach should be taken to get students more involved in the language and use it practicaly!

Stephen · 18-09-2001 9:52am

Bard, care to reveal how one makes a poll?

Volvagia · 19-09-2001 8:56pm

i think its somewhere one the page where you post what ever you want to post?? (i think)

Digi_Tilmitt · 20-09-2001 9:48pm

I think Irish should be optional as some people have grave difficulty with it. The people who want to keep it alive would still do it and keep it alive. This would make people who didn't do Irish feel guilty and they would end up doin it anyway.

Irish will not die, despite being poked quite a lot.

Neil3030 · 25-09-2001 5:49pm

Originally posted by Digi_Tilmitt
I think Irish should be optional as some people have grave difficulty with it. The people who want to keep it alive would still do it and keep it alive. This would make people who didn't do Irish feel guilty and they would end up doin it anyway.

Irish will not die, despite being poked quite a lot.

Well said. I am pro Irish but not in agreement with method in which it is thought. It is quite unpracticle and in need of reform. For instance after 3 years of learning French in Secondary School i was able to order a hotel room, write a passage about myself, describe my area etc etc etc. Had i of started Irsh from scratch in first year i'd both a) hate the language and b) be completely unable to speak it. Don't get me wrong i do believe that irish should be thought and it is a valuable asset to our national heritage but seriously, it's time for change.

Smaug · 02-10-2001 7:57pm

Fact of the matter is that its the worst taught subject in ireland regardless of the being teaching it,
I would absolutely love for irish to become the primary language of our fair isle but its NOT going to happen in our present situation, so by that basis alone as long as its taught as it is now it is not right to force peeps into a state exam where they havent got a hope in the nine hellls,
Of course there are those who will do well neway , but theres always one isnt there.

Digi_Tilmitt · 04-10-2001 9:41pm

Wah! I forgot to vote! Oh well, wasn't that important. Anyway more Chemistry less Language! (Copper!)

Bard · 05-10-2001 12:28am

Wow...

at this juncture, we are EVEN... excluding the "DON'T CARE" votes (don't know why I included that option, really) ... it's 50/50.

Not quite what I expected.

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 06-10-2001 11:36pm

Originally posted by Neil3030

I am pro Irish but not in agreement with method in which it is thought. It is quite unpracticle and in need of reform. For instance after 3 years of learning French in Secondary School i was able to order a hotel room, write a passage about myself, describe my area etc etc etc. Had i of started Irsh from scratch in first year i'd both a) hate the language and b) be completely unable to speak it. Don't get me wrong i do believe that irish should be thought and it is a valuable asset to our national heritage but seriously, it's time for change.

You've stole my thunder almost verbatim:)

Well Said, its more of these kind of measured realistic views we need in the Dept. of Educ. Although my Irish is ceart go leor, I sometimes feel I know more about the Clann Uisnigh agus Na Fianna than as you pointed out some more practicle / useful knowledge of the language:(

Its fine to try and make the language "cooolll" outside of school and TG4 try to make it more relative but we need to have it taught as french or german and make it something you can and will use w/ more proficiencey and frequency!

Slán Tamall
A Chairde
Daithí Ó Stánduin aka ochto p

Bloody Drunkard · 07-10-2001 4:44pm

Being a Leavin Cert student doing honours Gaeilge I wish i didn't have to.

But out of sight is out of mind. Make it non-compulsory and it will be dropped in record numbers. This will mean the death of the language

stecull · 08-10-2001 1:31pm

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

Lyconix · 14-10-2001 9:05pm

Irish should DEFINITELY be an option in secondary schools, without a doubt. Consider the usefulness of Irish in everyday life compared to other languages spoken by millions of people such as French and German... I mean, a lot of people want to keep the Irish culture alive and I can see what they're getting at, but I think that people who want to embrace the Irish culture and learn the language, and those that don't want to learn the language at all, should be given the choice. Myself, I'm against compulsory Irish in school since I find it difficult to learn languages and I feel no motivation to learn Irish since it will be of no use to me.

seamus · 14-10-2001 9:20pm

I think it should be compulsory up to third year, just so it doesn't die, and let's face it, you never learned anymore Irish after 3rd year. By then, you had been doing Irish for around 9-11 years, so if you werent good at it by then, you werent going to get any fúcking better!!!! I think that up to 3rd year, you're not really in a position to decide what you want to study, because IMHO, generally, anyone under the age of 16 can't fully see the consequences of their actions. That's why teenage preganancy rates drop off slighty around 17-18, and most people start smoking/taking drugs before they are 16. anyway that's off-topic.

Lyconix · 14-10-2001 9:26pm

No, I think that you should be able to decide whether or not you want to pursue Irish when you're at the very beginning of your second level education... that way you can pick whichever language you want and pursue it until the Leaving Cert, instead of doing Irish up until 3rd year and then changing to something else, and thus ending up with two second-rate subjects instead of one subject that you have learned well...

Fand · 14-10-2001 10:36pm

Sure, that's a good idea; let's decide what children should learn according to what use it'll be. They should learn how to wire and plumb a house, for a start, and how to be their own car mechanic. Much more useful than, say, geography or French (how many people do you know who use their school French?)

Religion should be off the course - no use to man or beast. English - well, why bother with literature, you can't buy or sell it. History - heavens, no. Latin's gone - after lots of agitation by people who didn't want to learn it because it wasn't useful. Ditto Greek.

In fact, come to think of it why bother to educate the majority of the population anyway? They'll never use it. They can't make money out of it. And that's what life is all about, isn't it? Making money.

Lyconix · 14-10-2001 10:55pm

Whoof, calm down Fand...

I think you're over-exagerating just a bit here... I enjoy learning History because its interesting, I try my best at English since it pays off big-time to have good command of the language, and I find all of my other subjects useful (I HAVE actually used my school French as a matter of fact)... EXCEPT for Irish. Why? Because only a small percentage of the population of this country consider it their primary language, therefore it is almost useless for the purpose of communication, which is what a language IS - a means of communication. Unless, of course, you like talking in Irish in foreign countries so that no-one can understand you, but thats about the only practical use for Irish I can think of, unless you're planning a visit to the west of Galway sometime soon.

Myself, I'm not into religion (I tend to place science above faith), but since I've encountered nothing truly indoctrinating in the secondary school religion classes, I haven't got a problem with it (its a good class to socialize in anyway), except I suppose for the fact that now all Junior Cert students must take a Religion examination... the purpose of this exam beats me.

My advice to you Fand would be to keep an open mind... I understand your view on making money, and it is annoying at times when you notice how selfish humanity is as a whole, but aren't you getting a little bit off the topic here?

Hellm0 · 14-10-2001 11:04pm

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school!

Hellm0 · 14-10-2001 11:04pm

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school![IMG]http://solarshadow.com/hellmo copy.jpg[/IMG]

Lyconix · 14-10-2001 11:08pm

Banning it might be a bit much but it should CERTAINLY be made optional and NOT compulsory as is the situation right now... I would also be much better at some of my weaker subjects if I had done them instead of Irish during the school week...

Fand · 14-10-2001 11:17pm

I would make Irish part of an "Irish Studies" course which would take in all aspects of our culture including traditional music and dancing, history and geography. But in the end, if people hate their culture they won't want to learn about it.

There are lots of people who hate Irish because they hate being Irish. And if they're the democratic majority, fine; if that's the way they want their country to be, fine.

Irish actually *isn't* hard to learn. Not unless you don't want to. Oh, I know, the grammar is awful. But to learn decent conversational Irish is astoundingly easy: go to any of the adult Irish courses around the coasts in summer and you'll find a million foreigners who've learned to speak Irish within a few weeks.

I honestly don't think the whole biz about compulsory Irish is much to do with the difficulty of the languge. It's much more to do with our attitude to ourselves. There are lots of kids out there who think it's an accomplishment to have failed to learn Irish - an attitude which can't but bleed into their whole way of thinking.

Fand · 14-10-2001 11:19pm

By the way, I didn't see the poll. The poll page flashed briefly by before the boards part loaded. But maybe I'm just being dim about how to find it.

Lyconix · 14-10-2001 11:38pm

Actually Fand, I think you're missing the point... kids don't consider it an accomplishment to have failed Irish, since where will failing Irish get you in the long run? It would have a significant impact on your Leaving Cert result if your other six subjects weren't up to scratch.

The point is - Irish should be optional so that students can choose subjects they like, and think that they will find useful. Rejection of the Irish language doesn't necessary mean rejection of the entire Irish CULTURE. For example, I'm against the Irish language being compulsory but I still celebrate St. Patricks Day!

Can you see what I'm getting at? If everyone has the CHOICE of doing the Irish language in school or not, then there would be nothing to argue about right now, since everyone would be happy.

Fand · 15-10-2001 1:12am

I think Irish should be compulsory; I think a lot of subjects should be compulsory - and they are, not just Irish.

Think about it another way: should sign language be on the curriculum, and should it be compulsory? I'd say yes - quite apart from the fact that a chunk of the population is somewhat disenfranchised by the fact that the rest of us don't speak their language, or speak only a few words of it, it's also a beautiful language with its own grammar, metaphor, puns and jokes. What do you think?

Lyconix · 15-10-2001 7:41am

But WHY should Irish be compulsory if people like me find NO use for it now and probably NEVER will? Those who wish to embrace the culture should learn Irish, and those that don't should be able to leave it alone and stop dragging the heavy corpse of the language behind them until Leaving Cert...

You seem to use the word 'compulsory' a lot don't you Fand? How about a little bit of freedom in these kind of decisions instead?

stecull · 15-10-2001 10:31am

Well thanks to Irish I went through a number of years of sitting through 5 classes a week of babble. In the end I took on another subject to compensate for it. Got a high honors in that subject, failed the Irish. Does it matter to me, not now, years down the road, but at the time I found it infuriating.
Fand, you seem to be of the opinion that you are standing on some sort of moral ground here. Your not, it's because of people like you that I had to suffer through those years. Sure sign language would be useful, but what has this to do with Irish, Irish has no use. It is a dead language, I don't think anyone could argue against this. It's a fact. Why do some people always insist on flogging the dead horse, and more importantly insist that other people do so also.

Fand · 15-10-2001 10:33am

Let's define our terms here. What do you mean by use?

seamus · 15-10-2001 2:45pm

Originally posted by Bloody Drunkard
Being a Leavin Cert student doing honours Gaeilge I wish i didn't have to.

But out of sight is out of mind. Make it non-compulsory and it will be dropped in record numbers. This will mean the death of the language

It can't be dropped in record numbers, because noones been allowed drop it before. Sure, about 50% of people would drop it, but I think it would still do quite well, after all, loads of people do French and/or German for the leaving, despite the fact that they may never use it.

Lyconix · 15-10-2001 7:45pm

Originally posted by Fand
Let's define our terms here. What do you mean by use?

Use... in this case I would define it as ever applying it to something outside of the Leaving Cert (including recreation and of course, chat boards) - I am certain that I will not apply Irish outside of the LC course, therefore in my opinion, it is useless. To those who wish to embrace Irish culture it is not useless, but to me and people like me who have no interest in it and don't need it for anything other than to get through the LC, it is.

Fand, its obviously easy for you to say that Irish should stay compulsory so that more people will speak it and the culture won't die, etc. etc. for one reason - you're already GOOD at speaking Irish and clearly enjoy it. I find learning languages extremely difficult, therefore, being forced to learn a language that is both UN-NECESSARY to me and DISLIKED by me, is infuriating at times. So for ****ks sake, can you TRY to see things from someone elses point of view? Hypothetical scenario... I force you to spend your entire second level education doing 5 classes a week learning hairdressing, despite the fact you'll NEVER have a use for it, and therefore you are not motivated to learn it and end up doing badly in your LC... CAN YOU SEE MY POINT NOW?

Fand · 23-10-2001 10:55am

Hairdressing? Yes! I've always wanted to be able to cut hair, and it's a dead handy trade - you can bring it anywhere with you, it doesn't depend on speaking the local language (even in Connemara) and it pays reasonably well.

As for useful outside the Leaving Cert - ok, sure, fair enough, perhaps you should shed all those subjects which will never be of any use: religion can go for a start, history, geography (after all, most people can't read maps anyway). We should limit Leaving Cert subjects to those which will help us to make money.

When is Irish useful? If you want to seduce someone (God forbid); if you want to climb rapidly in certain careers, such as law, where it's a kind of badge of friendliness; if you want to remember who you are.

But maybe you should go for commerce instead, it probably suits you better.

Fand · 23-10-2001 9:57pm

Oh, disregard my last post – I totally lost my temper: the idea of anyone learning anything because it’s going to be of use to them makes me rave and tear my hair and foam at the mouth – and the idea of anyone not loving Irish makes me so sad I can’t bear it.

But then I love learning: if they’d taught Urdu in school I’d have signed up eagerly for it, out of mad curiosity – though it would certainly not have been any use.

You’re going to win, you know? You’re going to succeed in knocking Irish off the syllabus, because once it’s not compulsory, people aren’t going to want to bother with it, because, like you, they feel it is not going to advance their careers in any way.

And Irish will die. But why mourn: a language dies every 20 minutes at the moment, according to the figures kept by the linguists who watch these things. Why not let another one go.

Your children will probably ask you to say a few words in Irish to them every now and again; but if you don’t know any, don’t worry. Just tell them it wouldn’t have been any use to them.

Lyconix · 24-10-2001 12:21am

I respect your views, and certainly I'm all for the Irish culture staying alive and well, and being around for generations to come... I can see that you enjoy embracing Irish culture and language, but can't you just think of others beyond yourself for a second and think of the misery that Irish language is causing to Leaving Cert students who find it extremely difficult to learn and infuriating since they don't want to learn it? There are the people who love Irish and are doing well in it, and coming out of the LC exam with straight A's, but of course there are also many people who aren't linguically minded who do terribly in their LC and owe this in large part to Irish.

This suggests a logical course of action... Irish should be made OPTIONAL. That way, those people who like it and do well in it can pursue it to the LC, and those who can't hack it and are better suited with a different field of learning can give it a pass and do something else that suits them better. The Irish culture is strong and rich but in being forced upon us, it is losing some of its meaning. Culture is something that people should embrace WILLINGLY and not forcibly as is the case at present...

ThreadKiller · 24-10-2001 1:06pm

Just because Riverdance was successful doesn't mean that children should be subjected to having to learn an obsolete language. Teach them French or German instead, it'll do them far more good in the long run.

We have enough heritage to be able to dump the language now.

androphobic · 27-10-2001 11:51pm

This argument is one on which people will always differ. This must be at least the 3rd such argument on the Gaeilge board alone.

I could counter-argue the "Irish is useless" argument with a "Differentiation and Integration are useless" one, or maybe a "Hamlet might be a good Shakespearean drama, but when will I ever need to quote it again?" argument, but I don't think I'll bother.

I did the LC last year and got an A2 in honours Irish. Now I'm studying International Business and Languages (French and German) in Dublin. My course has absolutely no Irish in it whatsoever, so I'll never use Irish on a professional level. But, as I have said before I'm sure, if and when I have children of my own, I want to be able to help them with their Irish homework. Personally, I think that that is worth much more than many people realise.

I can only speak for myself, but personally I would have loved if my parents had had the academic capacity to have been able to take a strong interest in my schoolwork. Both are intelligent people but neither maintained any sort of interest in Irish and many other subjects after completing their own Leaving Certs, and so by the time I got to mine, they were really no help to me whatsoever!

It didn't hinder me or anything, I still got an excellent LC, but when my turn comes around, I want to be able to help my children and take an active interest in their schoolwork. For that reason, and just because a language is always an interesting subject to learn (although since I'm studying languages, I might be slightly biased

), I'm glad I learned Irish in school.. time-consuming and complex as it was..

.. and I hope to keep it up in some way or another. That hardly makes me a fanatic.. just interested in something which was, and in some ways still is, an inherent part of my country and its culture.

Just my two cents.

Lyconix · 28-10-2001 12:26am

Keep in mind Androphobic that some people find languages extremely difficult to learn - surely you can understand the frustration in having to put so much blood and sweat into trying to understand something you have no interest in?

androphobic · 28-10-2001 1:08am

Yes, i do understand that. I hated Maths for the LC.. found it difficult to learn and put an enormous amount of work into it and still only managed to get a C (HL). Anyway, my point is that even though I found it a lot of work and difficult to do, I'm still glad I did it because, although it isn't relevant for my college course, I'll always have it. Same with Irish.

Lyconix · 28-10-2001 1:26pm

It isn't worth all that effort - all that blood and sweat just to have the satisfaction of "having it" - you could be learning something relevant or interesting instead...

Chaos-Engine · 28-10-2001 1:49pm

I think Irish has to be reexamined in its present teaching methods and the type of teachers that teach it.... Irish is used as punishment... That attachs alot of negativity to the subject by the time a child gets to secondary....

I think Irish shouldn't be required for all NUI colleges... Just specific courses such as "Irish and Commerce" and "Lingustics" etc....

Now the hardcore comments:

1. All Primary Schools should be Irish schools... Even for non-Nationals....

2. Secondary SChools do not have to be irish schools. BUt the vast majority should be...

3. Irish is only compulsory up until the Junior Cert.... Not afterward... There should be more scope for specialisation in the Leaving Cert....

As for Irish vanishing i think allow ppl to choose has lots of benefits... Sure ppl will leave and FAST... thats because they are no good and irish and want other subjects which they will get more points in... The Leaving Cert is about Points NOT whether r not the subject will be any use to you after School.....

Anyway I now lots of ppl who have Irish as there best subject and that r aiming for an A1 in it... I can't see them dropping it

Maybe if Irish was compulsory for the Civil Service, Army(Officers) and Police(officers) then we would see it still being taken in a similar amount to French or German...

All this is coming out of someone who never sat the Irish Exam in the Leaving

(Dyslexic ****)...

BUt for all those that can't get exemtions.. All you have to do is apply to the Department of Education and Science as an External Student. That way u don't have to sit the Irish exam (all those Institute and Bruce ppl r external students).... It just means u won't be able to go to an NUI. Who wants to anyway?

Fand · 29-10-2001 1:18pm

Well, I for one am convinced that virtually all teachers hate and fear Irish, and have transmitted their hatred and their fear to those they "teach".

Consider the attitude of most Irish people to opening their mouth and saying a word in Irish - there's a flinch there, a terror and anger, waiting for some other Irish person with the soul <?> of a national teacher to correct their pronunciation, their usage or their grammar.

I proudly and happily speak ungrammatical, badly-pronounced Irish, and anyone who corrects me will feel the edge of my tongue in two languages at least.

As for the music and the culture - I love Irish music, used to get a blast out of the chaotic célí in the St Louis school hall opposite the Town Hall in Rathmines on Wedenesday nights (is it still going?), and like a lot of Irish poetry, in English or in Irish; I also like Sigur Ros - just listening to Agaetis Byrjun as I write - and Storvan and the Black Boys from Alabama and bluegrass and Benny Goodman.

I'm scared, though, that a language that still - barely - has a chance of regaining the basic number of speakers that would allow it once again to be a spoken language, full of slang and nonsense and fun and its own mad idiosyncratic ways of saying things, will lose that chance because of a bunch of fat-bottomed bitches (in which I include the men) of Irish teachers.

Baz_ · 14-11-2001 10:10am

The really awful fact of the matter here is that Irish is the worst thaught language in schools. I did Irish for 12 years, German for 8 and I know infinitely more German than Irish (since I know 0 Irish, and 0 into anything is infinity).

I hated Irish in school, absolutely hated it, and it wasn't until sixth year in secondary that one day I said to meself "how in the name of God do you construct a sentence in Irish", for example in German the general rule is 8 [person] + verb + [time] + [manner] + [place], and when I realised that I didn't know even this basic rule, I gave Irish up myself. It wasn't something I enjoyed having to do but I knew that I couldn't learn an entire language in two months, so I just stopped trying.

Thats the basic point: Irish is thaught badly, and until the Irish government get up off their arses and try to reform the way of teaching, so that after a year we can say write a passage about ourselves and our family and our hobbies, and after two years everything previous + a bit of everyday conversational stuff, then it should be optional. I know some of you might be thinking "but if I can't do that how can a child of 4-6 do it, well to you I say don't forget that the younger you are the faster and better you learn.

I also think that to have Irish as a compulsory language the government should also make at least one trip to the gaelteacht compulsory (by paying for it of course) and that way people can have a chance to use Irish on a practical basis, in which way they will learn a lot more.

On the point of lyconix saying that it is unfair to make people who know they will fail do the subject, I agree. On the point of androphobic saying she understood because she only got a c in honours maths, well then she quite obviously doesn't understand, I got an e in pass irish, and I didn't have the option to do foundation so as I could at least salvage a little pride, at least she could have dropped to pass and gotten an A easily, so don't start saying you understand because you don't and can't.

Lyconix · 14-11-2001 6:21pm

Baz I relate to your story... what is the point in struggling to learn a compulsory subject when you know you cannot do it? I know the Irish-hardcores will counter that with "if you put in enough effort, it is possible" - and obviously it is, but being only human, I need motivation to take on something so big as to learn a language - and HOW am I going to feel motivated to put in the time, the effort, the sweat and the blood if I KNOW that I'll NEVER USE the language in the future? The irony is incredible... as you say Baz, you wasted hours of classes for 12 years trying to learn Irish. Imagine the stuff you could be learning instead, stuff you find interesting or plan to make use of...

Personally I'm not very mathematically minded so I struggle with Maths, but I know I've got to try my hardest and I DO put in a lot of work with it because I know I'll need it in later life if I decide to pursue a computer programming career. Struggling to learn something you are not going to need, use or enjoy is a waste of time and should not be done.

DeadBankClerk · 07-12-2001 4:08pm

Originally posted by Baz_
(since I know 0 Irish, and 0 into anything is infinity).

isnt 0 into anything undefined?

i think the way irish is taught is pathetic. in my old school we learned irish from day one and french from 1st year. i can speak french. the french sylabus is based around speaking and conversing in french. the irish sylabus expects its pupils to analyise poetry and other stuff, that is silly. irish needs to be taught in a way that we can SPEAK and UNDERSTAND it.

(first post on this board in 45 days

)

Baz_ · 07-12-2001 4:29pm

em kindof, it is infinity, but its infinity itself that is not completely defined. The mind boggles.

Bard · 07-12-2001 4:41pm

and yet the result stays deadlocked - 46.67% For YES, 46.67% for NO.

hmph.

Figment · 07-12-2001 5:14pm

Irish is a dead and empty language without the culture, song and traditions that go with it.
Why arnt these tought with it? Every language needs a frame of reference. We are thought (well i was) classical studies, why not irish studies which are probably a lot more relevent.

I for one dont care for the language. I droped it for my LC and havnt tought twice about it.
I do however love the culture and mythology and have a great sence of irishness because of it.

Let people make up ther own minds if they want to learn it. There will always be people who will ( a friend of mine recently after finishing college went on an evening course to learn it because she liked it) but dont force it on people. That just gets their backs up and turns them against it. Its human nature and is a sure way to drive the language out.
I love learning and finding out how things work, it doesnt have to be relevent to what i might choose to do as a carear, but dont force me!
If you must force it on people then the current methods of teaching need a complete rethink. I believe that is currently happening at the moment in primary schools.

Languages die and are born, its the way of the world. They do not define a people and a nation.
They can provide a nice reference point though.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 12-12-2001 11:04pm

You need a D in ordinary Irish to get into most colleges, therefore making it optional may run the risk of people realising they need it only too late.

I for one won't have trouble getting this grade but as a lot of people have trouble learning it and it really will never be used for anything except an Irish teacher,(bit ironic that) I think it should be changed in the colleges and made optional for the cultural ones.

Lyconix · 12-12-2001 11:34pm

Good point... evidently, a D in Irish should no longer be required to get into college. Funny how you'd be turned away from many colleges if you got an A in both French and German but an F in Irish because you weren't interested in it...

Yeats County · 13-12-2001 10:53pm

Yes, Irish should be compulsory in Irish schools, it's our official language after all.
I'm doing the Leaving cert. this year and I enjoy doing Irish (except Peig Sayers).

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-12-2001 11:30pm

Yes, Irish should be compulsory in Irish schools, it's our official language after all.

It's our officaial language, hmm bit strange we should have to learn it then.
Just about sums up how backward this country still is seen as I'm sure close to 100% of people wouldn't utter a word of Gaelige in usual circumstances

Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject up to Leaving Certificate? 28 votes

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