Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

magicbastarder · 16-04-2019 4:01pm

As I've repeatedly said, the car should be seized/surrendered for a number of days equal to the number of penalty points the offence incurs. That'd sort the issues out pronto.

trellheim · 16-04-2019 7:02pm

Seizing a car or revoking a full license driver to provisional for the offence of failing to stop at a red light are unrealistic, ill-thought out and disproportionate to the offence committed.

I'm ignoring the rest. It is not disproportionate in the slightest. Let me break this down in small words : you stop at yellow and red lights. Because those red lights make it safe for others to do their thing, your not stopping has likely endangered them. You deserve this kind of harsh lesson because all those driving lessons and test you took ? It clearly missed the basic stuff and therefore you need to have some re-education.

AGS are currently seizing vehicles for unaccompanied learner drivers , its not a big step down to seize for running a red.

blackwhite · 16-04-2019 7:15pm

trellheim wrote: »

I'm ignoring the rest. It is not disproportionate in the slightest. Let me break this down in small words : you stop at yellow and red lights. Because those red lights make it safe for others to do their thing, your not stopping has likely endangered them. You deserve this kind of harsh lesson because all those driving lessons and test you took ? It clearly missed the basic stuff and therefore you need to have some re-education.

AGS are currently seizing vehicles for unaccompanied learner drivers , its not a big step down to seize for running a red.

They seize for unaccompanied learner drivers because allowing them to drive off unaccompanied would be implicitly allowing them to continue breaking the law.

Currently, the only offenses where Gardai are allowed to seize a vehicle is where there is something would make it illegal for the vehicle to be driven away by the driver (I.e. unroadworthy, no tax, no insurance, etc.)

If your logic of seizing a car for running a red was applied, then the same penalty would need to apply to nearly any road offense under the proportionality principle.

AndrewJRenko · 16-04-2019 7:46pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

As I've repeatedly said, the car should be seized/surrendered for a number of days equal to the number of penalty points the offence incurs. That'd sort the issues out pronto.

We’re gonna need a bigger pound.

magicbastarder · 16-04-2019 8:32pm

yep, initially. i suspect the space required after a few weeks of Me Being In Charge will have shrunk.

McCrack · 16-04-2019 8:38pm

trellheim wrote: »

I'm ignoring the rest. It is not disproportionate in the slightest. Let me break this down in small words : you stop at yellow and red lights. Because those red lights make it safe for others to do their thing, your not stopping has likely endangered them. You deserve this kind of harsh lesson because all those driving lessons and test you took ? It clearly missed the basic stuff and therefore you need to have some re-education.

AGS are currently seizing vehicles for unaccompanied learner drivers , its not a big step down to seize for running a red.

In your head it's not disproportionate however logic and reality are quite different

Even Shane ross has never advocated taking people's cars from them if they fail to stop at a red light.. And that's saying something

Wishful thinking all the same

trellheim · 16-04-2019 9:41pm

McCrack wrote: »

In your head it's not disproportionate however logic and reality are quite different

Even Shane ross has never advocated taking people's cars from them if they fail to stop at a red light.. And that's saying something

Wishful thinking all the same

Like I said AGS are seizing for less. Reality is people are running red lights.

CramCycle · 16-04-2019 10:14pm

Why is it disproportionate? Don't get me wrong, it will never happen, best we can hope for are increased penalty points and large fines. Which if enforced, would probably solve alot of road use issues.

Ignoring the stupidity of my example, just bear with me. Imagine no one is allowed fire cannons in public. Unless, they have undergone training, gotten a license from the state, contributed (albeit only slightly) to the cost of the damage done to public spaces when they do use the canon etc. Only thing is they have a very specific set of rules they must adhere too. They have insurance to cover mistakes because lets face it, if you mess up with a canon, you probably cannot cover the cost but lets leave that aside for a minute.

Imagine there are spaces you an fire canons, its public, but they have a set of signals so people in the area know when you will or won't fire, and therefore when it is or is not safe to move in that area.

Imagine now, the signals are set that they have a three stage signal. Green for when you are clear to fire, amber means you cannot fire but if you have already lit the fuse, there is enough time for the canon to fire before others are told it is OK to move in the area. And ten there is Red, which means in no circumstances are you allowed fire. Ther eis a risk to life if you do. Even if there is no one else around, stlll a no no, because no one is perfect or you never know where someone might appear from, and lets face it, if you let it slip at all, it will generally keep slipping in regards when the general population think it is OK to fire.

Are you saying that if someone fired on red, they should not have their canon siezed or their license to fire revoked, or what would be appropriate?

magicbastarder · 16-04-2019 10:18pm

yep, if you prove yourself incapable of following *the most basic* rule of driving, should we not question your very fitness to drive?
to draw an analogy with soccer, this is not the offside rule, this is not understanding the 'put the ball into that white rectangular thing with the net' level of getting the point wrong.

Breezer · 19-04-2019 5:35pm

Slightly off topic, but just had an interesting one. I'm on foot crossing a side road on Dublin, at an unsignalised T junction. A guy in a car comes along as I'm half way across the road and turns across my path. He's going slowly enough and is obviously going to yield to me, but he gets close enough before he stops and throws his hands up in the air in a "WTF?" gesture. So I stop and have a little chat with him about his duty to yield to pedestrians already crossing.

He responds by firing up his undercover siren. I tell him I don't care if he's a guard, he's still wrong. There's a bit of back and forth and him acting the hard man telling me he hopes to see me on a coroner's desk some day.

If I'd had more time I might have suggested we discuss it with his superintendent but I didn't want the eejit taking me up on it for the sake of his ego, since I actually did have somewhere to be, so we agreed to disagree.

Wonderful attitude from Ireland's finest though.

Idleater · 19-04-2019 6:11pm

The law is that a pedestrian must cross at a signal if present, or at a junction. If there's an island (unsure about painted hatching) you treat each half separate.

I cross at a roundabout in a village and do the same as you, a driver must give way to a pedestrian already crossing.

Breezer · 19-04-2019 6:18pm

Idleater wrote: »

The law is that a pedestrian must cross at a signal if present, or at a junction. If there's an island (unsure about painted hatching) you treat each half separate.

I cross at a roundabout in a village and do the same as you, a driver must give way to a pedestrian already crossing.

Yes, but none of the above applied. Small side street here. The guy literally had to yield for 2 or 3 seconds, but no, he had a noisy light and a badge. And unfortunately there's plenty driving without that equipment who have the same attitude, and I'm just sick of it at this stage. People are getting hurt as a result.

magicbastarder · 25-04-2019 8:20am

at my favourite junction for RLJing - the junction of clontarf road and alfie byrne road - again.
i was on the bike, in the right turning lane, facing a red light for all traffic. the light went green for straight on only, and the three cars in front of me drove thorugh a solid red right turn light; i rolled up to the white line and the guy in the car behind me beeped at me and gestured for me to take the turn - i mouthed 'no' at him and he gave me an angry gesture, drove around me and went through the red.

neris · 25-04-2019 9:02am

magicbastarder wrote: »

at my favourite junction for RLJing - the junction of clontarf road and alfie byrne road - again.
i was on the bike, in the right turning lane, facing a red light for all traffic. the light went green for straight on only, and the three cars in front of me drove thorugh a solid red right turn light; i rolled up to the white line and the guy in the car behind me beeped at me and gestured for me to take the turn - i mouthed 'no' at him and he gave me an angry gesture, drove around me and went through the red.

that spot became famous on the dashcam thread over on motors for a while coz of 1 man in a van going through that light a few times. It was reckoned the company he worked for made boards pull the videos.

CramCycle · 25-04-2019 12:48pm

neris wrote: »

that spot became famous on the dashcam thread over on motors for a while coz of 1 man in a van going through that light a few times. It was reckoned the company he worked for made boards pull the videos.

I'd say whoever put it up was paid to pull it down, or they simply reported it to youtube who pulled it without question

Effects · 25-04-2019 8:13pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I'd say whoever put it up was paid to pull it down, or they simply reported it to youtube who pulled it without question

What right have they to have it taken off youtube?

Dravokivich · 25-04-2019 8:34pm

Effects wrote: »

What right have they to have it taken off youtube?

Cite defamation, right to be forgotten or if you can see business details could be use of trademarks without permission.

highdef · 25-04-2019 9:02pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cite defamation, right to be forgotten or if you can see business details could be use of trademarks without permission.

Yeah, but video evidence of a van with a business name on it going through the same red light multiple times is not really defamation though, is it? The video is not expressing a false statement, more so a true one via the medium of video.

The trademarks are being displayed in a public place, for the purpose of being seen by members of the public for the purpose of advertising said business. Fair enough if it was on private property.

Should the driver of the business vehicle choose to break the law in the public place whilst willingly advertising the business name to all who can see/record it by whatever medium, that's fine.

Dravokivich · 25-04-2019 9:05pm

To be honest, it doesn't matter. If theres something about you on YouTube that you can challenge the authenticity of they'll just remove it. I just mentioned potential reasons to use it. They arent there to maintain evidence of someone breaking red lights.

highdef · 25-04-2019 9:10pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

To be honest, it doesn't matter. If theres something about you on YouTube that you can challenge the authenticity of they'll just remove it. I just mentioned potential reasons to use it. They arent there to maintain evidence of someone breaking red lights.

Fair enough, point taken

AndrewJRenko · 25-04-2019 10:37pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

To be honest, it doesn't matter. If theres something about you on YouTube that you can challenge the authenticity of they'll just remove it. I just mentioned potential reasons to use it. They arent there to maintain evidence of someone breaking red lights.

I've had different experiences with YouTube - they are very tight about removing anything, and don't do so lightly.

All the GDPR rights would apply to the individual, not the business.

magicbastarder · 14-08-2021 7:33pm

bit of a thread bump, but things are going from bad to worse. twice today i had to stop in the middle of a junction because of ludicrously late red light jumpers. also witnessed a taxi driver sail through a red light (and a pedestrian green) completely unaware; and at a junction where there were three red lights facing him.

also was only two cars in front of a heavy enough rear-ending; both cars seem to have been rendered undriveable as they were still in place when i drove past on the way home, over half an hour later. all the muppets were out today.

Tomrota · 16-08-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117754367#Comment_117754367

I have also noticed it’s gotten even worse. People are sick of traffic in this country and rightly so. We rank one of the worst cities in Europe for traffic, one of the worst for public transport, and the most expensive public transport. What a disgrace. We had it great during COVID with very few cars on the road. It’s up to the government to provide alternatives.

Breezer · 18-08-2021 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761851#Comment_117761851

Every time “the government” (I’m using that term to describe both national and local government, and agencies) tries to put in an alternative, war breaks out.

Try to build a metro, that’s been planned for years, and the people of Ranelagh and a former Tánaiste start screaming about the Berlin Wall.

Try to build a cycle route, again planned for years, and the plain people of Sandymount rise up against the bourgeois cyclists.

Try to improve a bus network, and people are suddenly eco warriors, out protecting trees, to save the environment from the nasty buses.

It’s not up to the Government. It’s up to all of us, as a society, to cop on. And it’s also up to us to stop breaking red lights. Although some cameras and enforcement wouldn’t go amiss.

Thinkingaboutit · 19-08-2021 9:26am

A number of lights on my way into work (Dublin City) stay green for maybe 10 seconds to help the polar bears or something. Given the delays caused by someone checking their phone in front of me, being a bit of an amber gambler is no harm. There are of course some people on another planet. A red VW Golf nearly drove into me when he decided to go when the light was red for him and cars were proceeding from the next road on the junction. I sat on the horn for a while so he got the message.

thelord · 19-08-2021 9:35am

I find cyclists break Red lights all the time now. In addition Cyclists going at breakneck speeds on the public footpath.

I was clipped by a cyclist walking round the corner on my way to work this was on the public footpath not a cycle way and was the subjected to a load of verbal abuse as he receded into the distance.

AndrewJRenko · 19-08-2021 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774815#Comment_117774815

The Luas red light camera found that 88% of red light jumping in Dublin was done by motorists, not cyclists. They had to switch off the camera, because Gardai couldn't keep up with the number of drivers to be prosecuted - one every 30 seconds.

magicbastarder · 19-08-2021 1:51pm

was talking to a garda recently about this; she would spend significant chunk of her day driving, and she was saying that they would typically have two near misses a day from idiot motorists; and she would be in a marked car.

Seth Brundle · 19-08-2021 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774815#Comment_117774815

Cool story bro!

zom · 19-08-2021 2:11pm

"They had to switch off the camera, because Gardai couldn't keep up with the number of drivers to be prosecuted"

How much we pay Garda that it is not profitable to employ one just to prosecute red light jumpers?

Allinall · 19-08-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775866#Comment_117775866

Sounds like BS.

Why did they have to turn off the camera?

They could have left the camera on, and used the information for their own safety controls.

magicbastarder · 19-08-2021 2:36pm

not sure which trial is being talked about, but the first result on a google shows 1,300 detections, 747 which sent for prosecution, and 411 which were by cyclists.

https://www.thejournal.ie/luas-red-lights-4501812-Feb2019/

ARX · 19-08-2021 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776146#Comment_117776146

What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve.

Thelonious Monk · 19-08-2021 3:45pm

It's amazing how many people on the Irish internet have been hit by speeding cyclists on footpaths and then subjected to all kinds of abuse.

A while back some idiot on Twitter had such a story saying it was his girlfriend, I then clicked on his profile and he was commenting elsewhere saying it was his grandmother who was hit by the cyclists. I called him out and he blocked me. I don't believe any of these bullsh*t stories tbh.

Macy0161 · 19-08-2021 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776120#Comment_117776120

Shouldn't be paying a garda anything - this is the stuff that can either be automated or done by civilians (or a combination of both). There seems to be no will to make use of camera/ ANPR technology in this state. Even leaving aside speeding (no idea why we've so few vans), red lights, yellow boxes, tax, insurance, nct etc. etc.

AndrewJRenko · 19-08-2021 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776146#Comment_117776146

BS eh?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/camera-that-caught-1-300-drivers-running-red-lights-now-lying-idle-g696v3fh6

Allinall · 19-08-2021 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776882#Comment_117776882

So the camera wasn't switched off.

"The camera was introduced as a pilot measure in June 2015 at the junction where the Luas red line crosses Blackhall Place in Dublin. The National Transport Authority (NTA) confirmed yesterday that the trial ended in December that year. The camera has been running but not used for enforcement."

AndrewJRenko · 19-08-2021 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776914#Comment_117776914

Have you lost sight of the important issue here? The issue is that so many drivers were breaking red lights at this one junction that Gardai couldn't keep up with prosecutions.

blackbox · 19-08-2021 5:10pm

Ignoring red lights has always been an issue since I started driving 40+ years ago.

If there was no "grace period" on red and you knew the other light went green at the same time yours went red, people might be more careful. The "grace period" is the amber light.

The alternative is proper enforcement - i.e. cameras.

Also, the amount of people who cross the white line is amazing. They seem to think it's OK to go a metre or two further. Again, cameras are the answer.

Strumms · 19-08-2021 5:32pm

The standard of driving has gotten a lot worse... ive just finished a 35 minute journey as a passenger through heavy traffic.... and its a sea of cùntsville idiocy out there... just so must impatient, crap, careless, dangerous and illegal driving......

Some fùcking toolbag in a taxi who presumably got a fare over the radio or phone and trying to crash his way into our lane .. we physically cant move as traffic is bumper to bumper but hes pointing and roaring through his open window... the car doesnt have an invisable mode prick you driving AT us and stopping inches short of us....thick cùnt... car behind us left him sitting there too and blasted him out of it.....

People who disregard red lights usually dont care about disregarding the rest of the rules

Allinall · 19-08-2021 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776954#Comment_117776954

No.

Just correcting an inaccurate post.

magicbastarder · 19-08-2021 5:44pm

ten minutes ago i had someone driving in front and to the left of me in a bus lane (illegally), swing out in front of me without indicating, so they could swing left into their driveway. the amazing thing is you'd think by now they'd have learned how to pull into their own driveway without trying to cause a crash i beeped at them and they seemed taken aback.

Duckjob · 25-08-2021 8:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776979#Comment_117776979

I know relatively speaking, those people that can’t stop correctly at a stop line and have to straddle it instead, aren’t as dangerous as the ones that just blast on through on red, but it still boils my piss when I see it. Especially when it’s accompanied (as it usually is) by the constant creep forward, starting already halfway over the line, trying to anticipate the green, because they’re just that f***ing important that they can’t sit still for a couple of seconds and pull away when the light actually changes.

I mean, how **** a standard of driving do you want to show the world you’ve got 😡

Spook_ie · 26-08-2021 3:49am

Did they ever reset the phases that they introduced to prevent pedestrian build up during the co-vid lockdowns?

Charles Babbage · 26-08-2021 4:06am

There is scope for automated enforcement in a variety of areas, but red lights has to be one of the most straightforward applications and should have been done years ago.

Infini · 28-08-2021 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804463#Comment_117804463

No they didnt, Hanlons corner is a bloody pain to get through at certain times of the day and there's several places elsewhere where the lights are green for as little as 10 to 15 seconds before going red for another 2min. This is exactly the kind of passive aggressive engineering thats led to an increase in red light running as drivers patience runs out along with a lack of proper sequencing with neighbouring light sequences.

Personally I wish I could move out of Dublin to somewhere less crowded its a bloody mess these days and sadly public transport isnt a reliable option for me due to shift work.

AndrewJRenko · 28-08-2021 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816233#Comment_117816233

Maybe if you could ask drivers to just put their phones away, they might notice when the lights have gone green, instead of taking 10-20 seconds later?

magicbastarder · 28-08-2021 11:03pm

This is exactly the kind of passive aggressive engineering thats led to an increase in red light running as drivers patience runs out along with a lack of proper sequencing with neighbouring light sequences.

i see eye wateringly late red light jumping at junctions where pedestrian light timing is not an issue. people do it simply because they get away with it.

Macy0161 · 30-08-2021 10:28am

For decades motorists have blamed the sequences for red light jumping. It's one of the vicious circle things though - sequences are as they are due to all the red light jumping...

Anyway, Red Light Cameras already - just have a box at every junction and randomly rotate the camera's.

Duckjob · 31-08-2021 8:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822133#Comment_117822133

Can't come too soon.

Just be prepared for a flurry of nonsense whingy discussion items from Pat Kenny and others bemoaning the further oppression of the "hard pressed motorist" who is "just trying to get home" (Yes, he has previously used that exact phrasing in relation to taxi drivers driving 60-80kph down the quays of Dublin at weekend nights !)

The volume of such discussion items is probably directly linked to why we still don't have it after all this time.

Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

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