Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

ongarboy

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/we-forgive-you-dad-of-cian-6-killed-at-pedestrian-crossing-tells-dangerous-driver-37637372.html

Just reading this heartbreaking story of a young boy who crossed at the pedestrian lights when the pedestrian man turned green and was knocked down and killed by a motorist with 32 previous convictions including a 3 year ban. Amazingly his family have forgiven the driver which just shows how amazing the human spirit can be.

The reason I'm writing is that I cross the junction of Guild Street and Mayor Street as a pedestrian every day in the IFSC in Dublin and it really angers me the way I see so many cars (mainly those coming from Beckett Bridge/North Wall Quay towards Sherrif St) breaking red lights. This morning, I observed the light going red and not one, not two, not three but 4 cars still proceeded to drive through the junction despite the pedestrian man being green and for which we all had to wait for the cars to pass before proceeding to cross.

I'm seeing this ignoring of red lights by motorists everywhere in Dublin these days. It used to just be amber gambling. Is this an upward trend associated with people's increased sense of impatience or has it always been there? More people will be killed like little Cian as long as this habit is not policed. I acknowledge that cyclists and pedestrians can similarly ignore ROTR but the consequences of a reckless motorist will always be so much worse in these circumstances. :mad::mad::mad:

stevek93

About one year ago I was crossing the road the pedestrian man was green for me to walk, while I was crossing a car turned left into my path and the driver proceeded to shout abuse at me I was in his way, he then got out of his car and proceeded to shout more abuse at me.

amcalester

It seems to have gotten much worse, time to introduce red light cameras.

I saw a motorcyclist collide with a truck that ran a red light and turned across the motorcyclist, waited for the Guards to arrive to leave my details/make a statement but they didn't care. Left my name and never heard anything back.

Just today I saw 3 cars that were stopped at a pedestrian crossing all break the red light once the pedestrian had crossed. They got less than 50 up the road before they rejoined the traffic jam so not sure why they bothered.

Toots

Something very similar to what's described in the OP happened to me and my son about 4 years ago. By the grace of God, I saw the car coming through the junction and I had a split seconds warning to pull my son back. The driver didn't stop, and it still haunts me how close we may have come to a situation like that poor family.

Macy0161

Well it's pretty endemic on the N11 anyway. Obviously more noticeable when you're stopped at the front of the lights and can see the side road lights and see how many go through clear red, on until you actually have a green light. Worst ones are Whites Cross and Kilmad Road/ Stillorgan Park Road, but pretty much every set everytime I'm stopped you see it. I'm sure the main carriageway is as bad, it's just not as obvious when you're not waiting for green. Another bad one is the right turn at the Beacon inbound on the Drummartin Link Road.

The thing is, better compliance would mean shorter sequence times, so Red Light Cameras (which are the only answer) would probably benefit traffic flow.

steamsey

IMO it's worse. Traffic is so bad now all over that people are rushing to get that light and don't mind being pushy or blatantly breaking red lights to save those precious seconds. It's pretty normal now to accelerate through an amber / just gone red light. In general, road manners have disimproved - it's not just red lights that are the problem.

cruizer101

I think it has got worse myself. In town regularly see people activley accelerate through orange and also red lights.
Funny thing is half the time they gain nothing as they are just joining another queue of traffic.
Couple of mobile red light cameras could help solve the issue pretty quickly, once few people get fines word would spread.

Del2005

amcalester wrote: »

It seems to have gotten much worse, time to introduce red light cameras.

Cameras are no good because the person only finds out a few weeks later that they went through a red. Have the Gardaí spend a few days/weeks enforcing something other than exceeding the posted speed limit or DUI and you'll see our driving standards improve. A bolloxing at the side of the road making them late and a fine is better than a letter a few weeks later.

Running reds is getting worse. I was stopped coming from the Square to get onto the N81 and I'd say about 10 cars went through on the red on the main road before a car stopped. It's gotten so bad that I now have to consider is it safe for me to brake when the lights go amber in case the cars behind me won't.

Look at the USA. No one runs lights and they all stop at Stop signs because it's rigidly enforced but everyone DUIs, over here very few DUI but everyone runs lights and ignores signs.

amcalester

Del2005 wrote: »

Running reds is getting worse. I was stopped coming from the Square to get onto the N81 and I'd say about 10 cars went through on the red on the main road before a car stopped. It's gotten so bad that I now have to consider is it safe for me to brake when the lights go amber in case the cars behind me won't.

Strangely this is where I saw the motorbike hit the truck.

What Username Guidelines

That story is absolutely heartbreaking. Couldn't finish it beyond the part about the parents visiting his grave every night to read him a bedtime story. Jesus.

I think it has gotten far worse in the last 12 months. There are some particular junctions in the city that are worse than others. I cycle into the city (and yes, cyclists do seem to have a bad name for red light jumping, but I don't represent all cyclists) and as OP mentioned, there is a far greater risk to the way cars break lights.

Macy0161 wrote: »

Obviously more noticeable when you're stopped at the front of the lights and can see the side road lights and see how many go through clear red, on until you actually have a green light

This is a great point. On the bike, I'm always stopped at the top of the queue, so it's far more obvious. In a car you wont see it as much unless you're at the lights, but you will see cyclists and pedestrians breaking lights. Interesting data here too

Red light cameras and stricter enforcement are urgently needed.

Dravokivich

The issue with red light cameras is you don't have to stop for them and amber sequences are far too short in most circumstances.

I always watch what's going on around me even if the pedestrian light is green (where applicable). And I constantly encourage my son to do so also. I wont cross a road if i see a car approaching. Even if they'd need to turn onto the road im on and they dont have an indicator on.

greenwaving

I cycle through the city everyday and contrary to popular belief I stop at amber/red lights. I do see several cyclists break the lights daily but the number of cars/heavy trucks/vans doing it is endemic. And it is not vehicles chancing amber lights - it is vehicle after vehicle driving through blatant reds sometimes when pedestrians have already started to cross.

Forget about the guards doing one off campaigns to target it - get the cameras in and hit them with fines every single time they do it as well as with points for repeat offenders. Last week I saw a massive truck sail through a red light on the north quays followed by a van driver when I, with other pedestrians, was almost halfway across the road on a green man. They ignore the red lights and the pedestrians who are almost in their paths putting lives at risk. But I doubt they would be so careless to risk fines or losing their licence through points.

Macy0161

Start dishing out Penalty points from Red Light Cameras and word will soon get out.

When I lived in the UK, they had Red Light Cameras on rotation (like their fixed speeding cameras), and compliance was always better at the ones they were potentially at. iirc you could get done for speeding too, so it also meant zero incentive to floor it to make the lights either.

Gardai enforcement on stuff like this that can be enforced more effectively (no subjectivity at all) by camera's is a complete waste of resources. It's clear cut, it doesn't need someone to observe and decide like other poor behaviours.

ongarboy

Weepsie wrote: »

How do you mean? Amber is the one you stop on unless it's unsafe to do so. It doesn't matter a jot how the long the sequence is, as soon as that's amber that means you should be ready to stop unless you really can't.

People keep going however, and treat it like " ah you've a few seconds til you have to stop" and 4-5 cars squeeze on through. In reality, only that first car should ever be in a position that it has to proceed through an amber light because it is close to the stop line.

You stop on amber. Simple as. It's written in very plain english in the Road Traffic Act.

I totally agree with you. I've been beeped at for stopping as the light went from amber to red because I "held up" a driver behind me! That's more of the mindset of these drivers....

Dravokivich

Weepsie wrote: »

How do you mean? Amber is the one you stop on unless it's unsafe to do so. It doesn't matter a jot how the long the sequence is, as soon as that's amber that means you should be ready to stop unless you really can't.

People keep going however, and treat it like " ah you've a few seconds til you have to stop" and 4-5 cars squeeze on through. In reality, only that first car should ever be in a position that it has to proceed through an amber light because it is close to the stop line.

You stop on amber. Simple as. It's written in very plain english in the Road Traffic Act.

Nothing is written in plain simple English in any act of law.

For Amber, you stop unless unsafe to do so.
Same pretty much goes for red.

Once you are within a Junction on Amber or Red, the lights are of no significance to you. Right of Way is yours regardless of where the Green Signals are.

All in the road traffic acts.

Dravokivich

Weepsie wrote: »

But that's not what we're talking about here. People are specifically entering a junction after a light goes amber and that's problem.

I have no problems with a vehicle clearing a junction/proceeding if it has entered while it had right of way.

The problem is vehicles gunning it well back from the lights thinking that amber means they can go. What you do on approach to lights is very black and white.

From my recollection of reading it, Right of Way in the junction after a red, makes no distinction as to why you ended up in that junction, with a red light from where you came. Just that you are there and need to clear the junction, without others impeeding you, even if they have a green light. That'll need to be addressed before putting up Red Light Cameras. I'm not condoning it, just indicating what this thread is pushing, isn't simply a matter of sticking a few cameras up.

If the amber comes up, and I don't have the distance to stop in a manner that isn't abrupt, I'll go through it. Unless I see something else around the junction that requires me to stop abruptly.

I ain't one for speeding either. I'm genuinely not the kind to be in a rush to get anywhere. But the Ambers aren't usually set to the distance required to stop safely, for the speed limit on the road. They are just to tell you that the red light is coming up in the sequence.

CramCycle

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue with red light cameras is you don't have to stop for them and amber sequences are far too short in most circumstances.

I always watch what's going on around me even if the pedestrian light is green (where applicable). And I constantly encourage my son to do so also. I wont cross a road if i see a car approaching. Even if they'd need to turn onto the road im on and they dont have an indicator on.

I would have said Amber sequences as well as breaks between crossings turning green after the crossing light is red are far too long, giving rise to the belief that you'll be grand running a red.

Traffic light cameras are the way to go. They can be set to only pick up cars after the light is red, behind a certain point, so it won't affect people sitting in there when it turns amber.

I guarantee you, after the first flurry of fines come out, RLJing will plummet across Ireland. Very shortly, it will become the norm and the culture will change.

AndrewJRenko

Dravokivich wrote: »

Weepsie wrote: »

But that's not what we're talking about here. People are specifically entering a junction after a light goes amber and that's problem.

I have no problems with a vehicle clearing a junction/proceeding if it has entered while it had right of way.

The problem is vehicles gunning it well back from the lights thinking that amber means they can go. What you do on approach to lights is very black and white.

From my recollection of reading it, Right of Way in the junction after a red, makes no distinction as to why you ended up in that junction, with a red light from where you came. Just that you are there and need to clear the junction, without others impeeding you, even if they have a green light. That'll need to be addressed before putting up Red Light Cameras. I'm not condoning it, just indicating what this thread is pushing, isn't simply a matter of sticking a few cameras up.

If the amber comes up, and I don't have the distance to stop in a manner that isn't abrupt, I'll go through it. Unless I see something else around the junction that requires me to stop abruptly.

I ain't one for speeding either. I'm genuinely not the kind to be in a rush to get anywhere. But the Ambers aren't usually set to the distance required to stop safely, for the speed limit on the road. They are just to tell you that the red light is coming up in the sequence.

People shouldn't be surprised by an amber light. Any green light is bound to go amber. If you didn't see it going green, then you know it's going to go amber soon. If you did see it going green, you should have a good idea of when it's going amber.

There are far too many excuses for breaking lights.

Chris_5339762

Its gotten much, much worse in my opinion. I love stopping on yellow and getting hooted at by the people behind me who would have gone through on a clear red!

However, I can understand why some drivers do it... various light sequences with a 3 or 4 minute wait... you do it three times and you're home 12 minutes earlier. I wouldn't though.

Stark

It's only an issue if cyclists do it.

Dravokivich

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

People shouldn't be surprised by an amber light. Any green light is bound to go amber. If you didn't see it going green, then you know it's going to go amber soon. If you did see it going green, you should have a good idea of when it's going amber.

There are far too many excuses for breaking lights.

I'm not going to focus on remembering the timings of traffic lights. They should be adjusted to suit the junction and/or road they are on.

CramCycle

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not going to focus on remembering the timings of traffic lights. They should be adjusted to suit the junction and/or road they are on.

You don't need to learn anything, you see a green light, don't keep gunning it as if it will stay green. Be prepared that you may have to stop until you reach a distance that stopping before the line would be dangerous/difficult. You should always be able to stop on Amber unless you are essentially going to be over the line if you drop anchor, in which case, proceed. If it is red when you get there and you cannot stop in time, then you clearly were not paying enough attention with the amber lights.

whiskeyman

I'm seeing it all too frequently too.
What's worse is those who speed up into a junction when it goes Amber or just red.
Their focus is now taken off the road observation as they focus on making the light, and any out of the ordinary incident could be serious.
I already posted a dashcam clip of an accident that happened when a driver sped up to make an Amber light turn but failed to notice a car turning out from a line of traffic.
It could be a child crossing the road... all for thinking you'll get to work or home that bit quicker, but in reality you'll probably hit lights elsewhere anyway.

uck51js9zml2yt

Definitely getting worse. Everyone rushing to get somewhere.

Bus I'm on had to brake to allow a dozen pedestrians cross against a red man.

Enevitably a bike will also break a red and a car will too within the next 40 minutes of my journey.

The only solution is to ban red lights !

Realt Dearg Sec

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Its gotten much, much worse in my opinion. I love stopping on yellow and getting hooted at by the people behind me who would have gone through on a clear red!

However, I can understand why some drivers do it... various light sequences with a 3 or 4 minute wait... you do it three times and you're home 12 minutes earlier. I wouldn't though.

I often wonder what valuable things these people are doing with their saved minutes when they get home. Maybe they should give two of them to thinking about that family standing by a graveside reading a bedtime story.

I live in Texas where, as someone mentioned, people drink and drive all the time. But the red light cameras work a treat: you know you got the fine straight away simply because the camera has a very prominent flash, which is satisfying to see when it catches someone! The only problem is it's clearly used as a revenue generator because it also catches people in a junction after it goes red, and in New York they were discovered to have shortened yellow light times to catch more people, which has led to more fender benders as people stop at yellow lights even when it's unsafe (the rule here is that if you are in the junction when the lights have changed you're in the wrong). But these are issues that need tweaking, rather than fundamental problems with the idea. It works well in general.

I'm not proud to admit I ran through a yellow my first week here. The seventy quid fine softened my cough fairly overly and I haven't done it since.

Corca Baiscinn

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/opinion/sunday/cars-pedestrians-cities.html

Saw the link to this excellent piece from New York Times on twitter earlier today and thought of it again when I read this thread. The hierarchy of rights needs to be reversed in favour of pedestrians and cyclists and its happening already in many cities. Today within 10 minutes I had occasion to cross 2 zebra crossings twice and in 3 of the 4 cases I had to eyeball the driver mid-crossing and insist they stopped to allow me complete the crossing. One waited til the last second as he assumed I would stop instead. Now I'm an adult of average height and lots of experience so could do that but no way could you send a child walking on that route and assume that they'd be ok because there are pedestrian crossings. More nervous adults understandably give in too and stop in their tracks (I'm talking about when there is no car coming in the other direction) thus fuelling the motorist's sense of entitlement

Enforcement, red light cameras and lower speed limits are all needed along with a culture shift towards behavioral change. The judge in the case cited said that speed was an aggravating factor and that the driver was driving at 10 km above the speed limit. We know that the chances of being killed from an impact with a vehicle increase substantially for every extra 10km

Cookie_Monster

I found it chronic when I was home last summer, absolutely unbelievable. Nearly ever set of lights I was at someone would run them. The sequence times are terrible though, so many junctions you seem to sit there forever even if nothing coming from the other roads.
Red light cameras and some level of intelligent light changes that actually account for traffic are badly needed. The wait time for pedestrians is even worse.

John_Rambo

It’s gotten endemic all over the country. I have to coach the kids not to trust the green man and to check twice before crossing due to cars and vans blasting through pedestrian lights only to stop in traffic 20 metres up the road. Morons.

Dravokivich

CramCycle wrote: »

You don't need to learn anything, you see a green light, don't keep gunning it as if it will stay green. Be prepared that you may have to stop until you reach a distance that stopping before the line would be dangerous/difficult. You should always be able to stop on Amber unless you are essentially going to be over the line if you drop anchor, in which case, proceed. If it is red when you get there and you cannot stop in time, then you clearly were not paying enough attention with the amber lights.

Do I have to copy everything I write into each post I write? I'm far from the one gunning it.

CramCycle

Dravokivich wrote: »

Do I have to copy everything I write into each post I write? I'm far from the one gunning it.

Then I don't get your point, you said you weren't going to learn the timings of each junctions, I was just saying you really don't need too. Drive appropriately for the conditions, including lights and layout and it should not be an issue.

I don't get your point against cameras either? I really can't see the negatives.

Dravokivich

CramCycle wrote: »

Then I don't get your point, you said you weren't going to learn the timings of each junctions, I was just saying you really don't need too. Drive appropriately for the conditions, including lights and layout and it should not be an issue.

I don't get your point against cameras either? I really can't see the negatives.

A picture can't tell that you've illegally entered a junction.

caviardreams

Agree - as a pedestrian along the N11, cars frequently break green men, often at a decent speed as well if it is outside peak times and there is little traffic. Or as another poster alluded to, sometimes after pedestrians have crossed, even if the lights are still green for pedestrians, motorists will just get going again and drive through them. The turn up fosters avenue is particularly bad for this - I would say a car breaks the green man at least once a week that I see there.

AndrewJRenko

My other bugbear is the drivers who just have to cross the white line, blocking either bike box area, or the pedestrian crossing area, because they're worth it, I presume. Then they inevitably blame the driver in front, because they got 'caught' in the junction, as if heavy traffic at key junctions during Dublin rush hour came as a total surprise to them.

One of the causes of the "early red" syndrome it the fact that most motorists are aware that there is a gap in the timings when all lights are red, so they know that there is often two seconds before the next green the opposite way.

Maybe we should introduce the green/amber sequence into this gap, as used in the UK and several European countries, doing this will stop the red jumpers as they know that the cross traffic will appear almost immediately after the red light.

John_Rambo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

My other bugbear is the drivers who just have to cross the white line, blocking either bike box area, or the pedestrian crossing area, because they're worth it, I presume. Then they inevitably blame the driver in front, because they got 'caught' in the junction, as if heavy traffic at key junctions during Dublin rush hour came as a total surprise to them.

Saw a Taxi driver jump out of his car to redirect a blind man around his car after the white cane came in to contact with the car. Pretty disorientating for a visually impaired person when this happens, do you go in front or behind? And then, what's the orientation?

Taxi had no reason to be over the line, just inching his way forward, impeding the crossing for no reason. He manhandled the guy on to the footpath and walked back to the car like some sort of hero.

Zebra3

Utter contempt for a red light for years now as motorists know there is basically no enforcement.

italodisco

ongarboy wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/we-forgive-you-dad-of-cian-6-killed-at-pedestrian-crossing-tells-dangerous-driver-37637372.html


The reason I'm writing is that I cross the junction of Guild Street and Mayor Street as a pedestrian every day in the IFSC in Dublin and it really angers me the way I see so many cars (mainly those coming from Beckett Bridge/North Wall Quay towards Sherrif St) breaking red lights. This morning, I observed the light going red and not one, not two, not three but 4 cars still proceeded to drive through the junction despite the pedestrian man being green and for which we all had to wait for the cars to pass before proceeding to cross.

I'm seeing this ignoring of red lights by motorists everywhere in Dublin these days. It used to just be amber gambling. Is this an upward trend associated with people's increased sense of impatience or has it always been there? More people will be killed like little Cian as long as this habit is not policed. I acknowledge that cyclists and pedestrians can similarly ignore ROTR but the consequences of a reckless motorist will always be so much worse in these circumstances. :mad::mad::mad:

I'm down there 3 or 4 mornings a week as I jump between our offices and you're not wrong, those lights at that junction that lead you to the back of the convention center, holy sh!t is unreal!

Only a weeks ago I seen it around 8am there, green man, red light, guy starts crossing the road and a car skids and misses him by a foot or 2.

If nearly been hit there a few times too.

It's gotten so much worse, I've adopted a new approach, if someone drives through a red when I cross they'll be getting my lunch / coffee bounced off their car and god love them if they challenge me, just imagine there's kids crossing the road alone/ in buggies, wft are these morons thinking at all

harr

Just sen this thread now as I was saying it to a friend last week, we have a dangerous crossroads near us controlled by lights. The amount of people taking the chance on red is madness, like it’s not like they are just over the line they are speeding up when the lights change. This set of lights also has two pedestrian crossings, it won’t be long till some poor unfortunate is sent flying.
As for the few one way bridge lights/ narrow road they are ignored completely and again at speed.
Already this year two people have crashed into on coming tractors on one particular bridge.

Macy0161

Chris_5339762 wrote:

However, I can understand why some drivers do it... various light sequences with a 3 or 4 minute wait... you do it three times and you're home 12 minutes earlier. I wouldn't though.

Part of the reason for the length of sequences is to allow for the rampant red light jumping!

jjpep

Same in Galway. People rush through after they go red and end up blocking junctions and generally causing chaos.

No enforcement but also we are all too accepting of this behaviour.

gimli2112

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue with red light cameras is you don't have to stop for them and amber sequences are far too short in most circumstances.

I always watch what's going on around me even if the pedestrian light is green (where applicable). And I constantly encourage my son to do so also. I wont cross a road if i see a car approaching. Even if they'd need to turn onto the road im on and they dont have an indicator on.

you'll generally find they'll flip on the indicator if they think they're going to hit you. Maybe they think it's some kind of immunity switch.

Kermit.de.frog

I see drivers now going through red lights every day of the week, not a care in the world.

Agree, no enforcement.

magicbastarder

the worst junction i know for it is outbound from fairview to clontarf; drivers don't seem to think they've to wait for a green before taking a right onto alfie byrne road - and i'm not talking about gunning it through a couple of seconds after the light has gone red, i mean coming to a stop facing a red, and going 10 or 20s after the light has gone red.
this is 150m from the front door of a garda station.

CramCycle

Dravokivich wrote: »

A picture can't tell that you've illegally entered a junction.

They can be set to only take photos from a certain point and after the lights are fully changed. They really can do it if set up right. They can also have complimentary video, for disputes, with the caveat of you dispute and are shown to be wrong, the fine is higher.

Breezer

I had a taxi driver behind me lean on the horn a while back when I stopped on amber. He then proceeded to swing out to my left, pull along side me, roll down his window, stick his middle finger up at me, and then he drove through on red.

I see it every morning too, worst one for me is New St South/Dean St near St Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin, where cars swing left on a straight ahead arrow across a cycle track and through a pedestrian crossing. Glasnevin Avenue onto Collins Avenue/Ballymun Road inbound is another hot spot.

AndrewJRenko

Given that the Gardai are doing nothing about this, we need an IBIKEDublin style team of activists to get on the case. Get out at some of the key junctions with cameras for 30 minutes at a time. Then provide Gardai with a list of reg numbers, dates, times and witnesses.

At least it might embarrass them into doing something.

CrankyHaus

It's completely unenforced, so the Gardai don't care. You can kill someone doing it and only get "4" years, so the judiciary don't care. Lord Ross got tough on road safety last week by... doing nothing about it, so politicians don't care.

Basically none of the people we pay handsomely to keep us safe cares about this crime so it'll keep on getting worse. It's unlikely that child will be the last person killed by it.

Try_harder

Its getting so much worse

engiweirdo

No enforcement = No punishment = No incentive to comply with rules.

That line above is pretty much Ireland in a nutshell. Far too many imbeciles in this country who see this type of carry on as pulling a stroke/fast one or getting one over on someone.

I actually witness it every single day while walking daughter to school and the worst part is the offending cars usually contain child passengers from the same bloody school. Sailing through red lights, round a blind bend knowing there's a pedestrian crossing used mainly by schoolkids and their parents round that corner. (Hint: You've bloody come from there).


You definitely need a big stick approach when dealing with idiots like this. Camera's on all traffic lights and automated violation tickets, fines and summons issues with zero tolerance or leeway for offenders is how I'd go. That or a massive cull of the population. Either would work just as well.

P_1

Theres xero enforcement. Between this and people parking on footpaths something has to happen enforcement wise or else people will start taking the law into their own hands

What Username Guidelines

P_1 wrote: »

Theres xero enforcement.

Had a car pull in on top of me this morning while in the bus lane at Harolds Cross, which then drove the length of the bus lane where she met a Garda standing in the road at the end. He just waved her back into the general traffic lane and went back to the footpath. I understand they don't want to block up the bus lane at rush hour giving tickets, but that lady just illegally undertook 25-odd cars, nearly hit me and another cyclist, and off she goes to work, not a bother on her.