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Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

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    #422
    fawlty682
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭fawlty682


    Definitely, cameras should be used at traffic lights as Traffic Gardai are not out anyway on roads during the day. Drivers seem to think that it’s ok to drive through the light for a few seconds after it changes. Speeding is a huge problem in our towns and estates.


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    #423
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    fawlty682 wrote: »
    Definitely, cameras should be used at traffic lights as Traffic Gardai are not out anyway on roads during the day. Drivers seem to think that it’s ok to drive through the light for a few seconds after it changes. Speeding is a huge problem in our towns and estates.

    ......and cyclists


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    #424
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    ......and cyclists
    , first its light sequences now its cyclists. What's next.

    People who break red lights in private cars are not good drivers.


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    #425
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,764 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Cycling outbound through Fairview yesterday I noticed a set of cameras on the footbridge pointing at traffic. Any ideas what they might be monitoring?


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    #426
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    How simple can it be for ye cyclists .
    If ye use the same traffic lights as the rest of us road users , ye must adhere to the same rules .
    Stop at RED .
    Now throw back at me the amount of car users that break red lights including the already proven inaccurate data from cycling organisations .


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    #427
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    downtheroad wrote: »
    Cycling outbound through Fairview yesterday I noticed a set of cameras on the footbridge pointing at traffic. Any ideas what they might be monitoring?

    My local station uses them for monitoring incidents, one on every lightset in the town but they are not ANPR or for enforcement, only when something serious is noticed, they are following someone or if a crime is committed that is reported and acted upon within viewing range.


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    #428
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    How simple can it be for ye cyclists .
    If ye use the same traffic lights as the rest of us road users , ye must adhere to the same rules .
    Stop at RED .
    Now throw back at me the amount of car users that break red lights including the already proven inaccurate data from cycling organisations .

    Stop on amber (unless unsafe to do so).

    Typical motorist, doesn't even know the rules he's asking others to follow.


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    #429
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    How simple can it be for ye cyclists .
    If ye use the same traffic lights as the rest of us road users , ye must adhere to the same rules .
    Stop at RED .
    Now throw back at me the amount of car users that break red lights including the already proven inaccurate data from cycling organisations .

    Do you ever break the speed limit yourself Ashleigh?


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    #430
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    Amcaster.... The topic we are talking about is
    HAS IGNORING RED LIGHTS GOTTEN A LOT WORSE .
    I personally don't see AMBER in that title .
    So if you want to change the discussion.... Fire away .
    P.s .... I'm well aware of the rules of the road


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    #431
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    Amcaster.... The topic we are talking about is
    HAS IGNORING RED LIGHTS GOTTEN A LOT WORSE .
    I personally don't see AMBER in that title .
    So if you want to change the discussion.... Fire away .
    P.s .... I'm well aware of the rules of the road


    It's you who seems to be trying to change the topic of discussion, it's about motorists breaking red lights yet you're in here ranting and raving about cyclists.

    You're a taxi driver so while you may be aware the rules, I've no doubt you regularly flout them.

    And you don't seem to be aware that pedestrians are road users too, so i'm not sure how aware of the rules you actually are.


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    #432
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    Andrew ... As I've mentioned before
    I've a 30 year accident free driving history .
    I've no penalty points on my license.
    To have both takes observation on the road .
    Every hour of every day I see crazy driving from motorists including breaking lights ...
    But guess what Andrew no matter what you throw up
    I SEE CYCLISTS DOING THE EXACT SAME .


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    #433
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    How simple can it be for ye cyclists .
    If ye use the same traffic lights as the rest of us road users , ye must adhere to the same rules .
    Stop at RED .
    Now throw back at me the amount of car users that break red lights including the already proven inaccurate data from cycling organisations .

    I am sorry but what has this to do with cyclists. This thread is about motorists. Who gives a rat's ass how many cyclists run red (something I hate).


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    #434
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    Andrew ... As I've mentioned before
    I've a 30 year accident free driving history .
    I've no penalty points on my license.
    To have both takes observation on the road .
    Every hour of every day I see crazy driving from motorists including breaking lights ...
    But guess what Andrew no matter what you throw up
    I SEE CYCLISTS DOING THE EXACT SAME .

    Yes, me too Ashleigh. I guess the difference is that I don't see cyclists killing 2 or 3 people each week on the roads and maiming many more.

    But back to my question that you seem to be avoiding - do you ever break the speed limit yourself?


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    #435
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    ......and cyclists
    the way that response was phrased suggests the message intended was 'speeding is a huge problem in our cyclists'.
    which is a strange syntax, but speed limits don't apply to cyclists.


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    #436
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭kirving


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So if it is nothing to do with carnage and road deaths, what is it to do with? What are you trying to achieve here?

    As far as I can see it's about building respect and understanding between motorists and cyclists.

    When you have large percentages of cyclists breaking lights (and they do), it contributes to breeding a culture of noone caring about any of the rules.

    Now obviously a car has potential to do more damage than a bike, but that's a very small minded view of the whole situation and the attitude of us vs. them from both sides.

    If we want to talk about deaths alone, sack all Gards in Roads Policing and employ them as person trainers. Heart disease kills far more people than car crashes do.


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    #437
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the way that response was phrased suggests the message intended was 'speeding is a huge problem in our cyclists'.
    which is a strange syntax, but speed limits don't apply to cyclists.

    Don't be pointing these things out to Ashleigh, he's aware of the Rules of the Road. He just has no idea what's in them.


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    #438
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    Amcaster .... I will do this one last time .
    HAS IGNORING RED LIGHTS GOT WORSE ????
    Where in that title does it say ..... Motorists????
    Are cyclists road users ??
    By Irish law cyclists are just like motorists supposed to stop at red lights .
    As for your comment about me as a "taxidriver regularly floating the traffic law ".
    The fact I have no penalty points proves you WRONG !!!


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    #439
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    As far as I can see it's about building respect and understanding between motorists and cyclists.

    When you have large percentages of cyclists breaking lights (and they do), it contributes to breeding a culture of noone caring about any of the rules.

    Given the large percentage of motorists that break speed limits in the RSA Speed Surveys, use their phones while driving in the Aviva Pan-european survey, and break red lights at the Luas red light camera, are motorists really that bothered about a culture of no-one caring about the rules?


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    #440
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why? What benefit arises from this?

    Does obeying the rules of the road really need explanation?


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    #441
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    As for your comment about me as a "taxidriver regularly floating the traffic law ".
    The fact I have no penalty points proves you WRONG !!!
    just because you've no penalty points =/= you don't break the law.
    everyone agrees there's essentially zero enforcement on road traffic violations.


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    #442
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    Amcaster .... I will do this one last time .
    HAS IGNORING RED LIGHTS GOT WORSE ????
    Where in that title does it say ..... Motorists????
    Are cyclists road users ??
    By Irish law cyclists are just like motorists supposed to stop at red lights .
    As for your comment about me as a "taxidriver regularly floating the traffic law ".
    The fact I have no penalty points proves you WRONG !!!

    I see you've read the OP with the same dedication as you appear to have read the Rules of the Road.

    This is the question asked in the OP.
    I'm seeing this ignoring of red lights by motorists everywhere in Dublin these days. It used to just be amber gambling. Is this an upward trend associated with people's increased sense of impatience or has it always been there?

    As regards you having no penalty points, that doesn't prove anything unfortunately because not all indiscretions are caught and prosecuted.

    If they were, then I would agree your impeccable driving record would be proof of an ability to drive within the confines of the law, as it stands though all it proves it that you've never been successfully caught.


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    #443
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    Just for ye tunnel vision cyclists ( the ones that don't see other cyclists (they are out there ) breaking traffic lights) .
    Let's change the topic headline .
    Has ignoring red traffic or amber lights by MOTORISTS (only) got worse .
    Discuss


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    #444
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    As far as I can see it's about building respect
    Now obviously a car has potential to do more damage than a bike, but that's a very small minded view of the whole situation and the attitude of us vs. them from both sides.

    Isn't that rather the whole point? If cars moved at the same speed and weighed as much as pedestrians, I couldn't care less how many of them were breaking the lights. Just like absolutely no one in these threads seems to care that pedestrians are by far ignoring red lights more than any other group. As a society we seem to have accepted that for some groups it's okay to break the lights, and for others it is not. The question then becomes either a) what metrics should society employ to judge the severity of breaking a light or b) what can be done to penalize cyclists and pedestrians breaking lights?


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    #445
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    Just for ye tunnel vision cyclists ( the ones that don't see other cyclists (they are out there ) breaking traffic lights)
    cyclists breaking red lights is BAD and WRONG.
    however, it's not as BAD and WRONG as motorists breaking red lights.

    i would say (a rough initial guess) a cyclist breaking a red light is 10% as BAD and 50% as WRONG as a motorist breaking a red light.
    discuss.


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    #446
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Does obeying the rules of the road really need explanation?

    Apparently it does, given the numbers who seem to have lost sight of the rationale.


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    #447
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭kirving


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Given the large percentage of motorists that break speed limits in the RSA Speed Surveys, use their phones while driving in the Aviva Pan-european survey, and break red lights at the Luas red light camera, are motorists really that bothered about a culture of no-one caring about the rules?

    I can't see anything wrong with an attempt to improve culture from all road users, but you seem to think it doesn't matter.

    So there's no point in trying, because it's all the motorists fault anyway?

    In any case, road deaths have dropped by 63% since 2005, so motorists must be improving in their behaviour, despite the remaining issues you've mentioned.


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    #448
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    Andrew ... As I've mentioned before
    I've a 30 year accident free driving history .
    I've no penalty points on my license.
    To have both takes observation on the road .
    Every hour of every day I see crazy driving from motorists including breaking lights ...
    But guess what Andrew no matter what you throw up
    I SEE CYCLISTS DOING THE EXACT SAME .

    SO WHAT. Would you jump of a cliff if they did


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    #449
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I can't see anything wrong with an attempt to improve culture from all road users, but you seem to think it doesn't matter.

    Except it's not an attempt to improve culture for all. If you really wanted to improve the culture, surely you would start with your own colleagues and fellow travellers before you go pointing the finger at others. Or surely you would start with the group that kill 2 or 3 people each week rather than the group that don't?

    Let's be honest - it is an attempt to deflect attention from the carnage caused by motorists every day.


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    #450
    murmer
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭murmer


    From a motorists perspective, I think that driving competence and attitudes in general have declined over the last 10 years or so. I wonder do smart phones have anything to do with it? The amount of times I've been stuck behind someone that takes AGES to move off when the light change green. Perhaps this in turn creates a knock on effect at the next lights as they are timed for normal driving?


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    #451
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    having no penalty doesnt prove anything other than that a driver hasnt been caught.

    drivers here disregard red lights/stop signs/even roundabout rules yet in the driving in usa post there is great emphasis placed on respecting speed limits, stopping at stop sign etc.
    lack of policing and cameras here has allowed culture of arrogance and sheer disregard for road rules by motorists and cyclists.


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