new ICBF Proofs

p dogg · 23-12-2014 11:23am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

No, not for the latest Excel proofs. You'll have to wait till they are up fully on the site, 22 Dec 2014.

I have been looking at the latest proofs on icbf and cant help but notice the kg for milk has decreased for a lot of bulls and especially with the top simmental bulls, could it be due to a bad thrive from weanlings or how exactly is this stat calculated, I really hope that the simmental breed is not going the same direction as other continental breeds losing one of their best attributes and end up like charolais and limousin not fit to rear a weanling sufficiently!!!!!

onyerbikepat · 23-12-2014 3:26pm

p dogg wrote: »

....

Q. In the Euro-Star index there is a trait for daughter milk. How does ICBF measure the milking ability of suckler cows?

A. The milking ability of suckler cows is gauged by the performance of their calves. Calves with the highest average daily gains (ADG’s) in a herd are almost always from the milkiest cows in that herd. In order for this performance to be reflected in genetic indexes, it must be measured and this is done by weighing suckler calves between 150-250 days of age (approx. 5-8 ½ months). A weight on a calf at this age is more commonly known as a “milk weight” and gives a good indication as to the milking ability of the cow that the calf is suckling.
On-farm weighing is good practice as it gives farmers a detailed insight into the performance of their animals and allows ICBF to reflect the milking performance of suckler cows in genetic evaluations. It is vital that farmers not only weigh their animals but also supply these weights to ICBF. Weights can be recorded through the ICBF website (HerdPlus®) or through a farm software package. If a farmer avails of the ICBF weighing service then weights are automatically uploaded to the ICBF database

From;
http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332

blue5000 · 23-12-2014 3:46pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Q. In the Euro-Star index there is a trait for daughter milk. How does ICBF measure the milking ability of suckler cows?

A. The milking ability of suckler cows is gauged by the performance of their calves. Calves with the highest average daily gains (ADG’s) in a herd are almost always from the milkiest cows in that herd. In order for this performance to be reflected in genetic indexes, it must be measured and this is done by weighing suckler calves between 150-250 days of age (approx. 5-8 ½ months). A weight on a calf at this age is more commonly known as a “milk weight” and gives a good indication as to the milking ability of the cow that the calf is suckling.
On-farm weighing is good practice as it gives farmers a detailed insight into the performance of their animals and allows ICBF to reflect the milking performance of suckler cows in genetic evaluations. It is vital that farmers not only weigh their animals but also supply these weights to ICBF. Weights can be recorded through the ICBF website (HerdPlus®) or through a farm software package. If a farmer avails of the ICBF weighing service then weights are automatically uploaded to the ICBF database

From;
http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332

That's fuppin brilliant, I've one cow by a scrub bull that will feed any calf that comes up to her, if her own calf is only being half fed her milk figures are going to be a bit skewed, 'There's lies, damn lies and then there's statistics'

Kovu · 23-12-2014 4:21pm

Does it also take the 'Cow Milking Ability' which is recorded in the Beef Data Program into account? For example, a lot of ours would be average with a few that are very good because of sim/br fr breeding behind them.

But my average might be another fella's Excellent!

towzer2010 · 23-12-2014 4:33pm

I've a CHx cow that's listed as having -8 for milk kg's but no one told her calves as they are always among the best and heaviest calves I have.

p dogg · 25-03-2015 12:56pm

Does anyone know when the latest icbf proofs will be out?

Kovu · 25-03-2015 12:58pm

p dogg wrote: »

Does anyone know when the latest icbf proofs will be out?

April sometime.

onyerbikepat · 25-03-2015 1:11pm

Excel File will be available on 14th April 2015.

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208

Farrell · 25-03-2015 2:17pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Excel File will be available on 14th April 2015.

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208

How often do these come out, last one was December.
Also has anyone received the physical suckler report (I know it's online)

onyerbikepat · 25-03-2015 5:04pm

Seems to be April, August and December. 3 times a year.

onyerbikepat · 17-04-2015 7:56am

Proofs for April 2015 now up on www.icbf.com in Excel format.

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200

I'm beginning to sound like I work for ICBF.:)

blue5000 · 17-04-2015 9:31am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Proofs for April 2015 now up on www.icbf.com in Excel format.

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200

I'm beginning to sound like I work for ICBF.:)

Feck you Pat, there's the morning gone, just like that. Could you not wait till tonight:pac:

tanko · 17-04-2015 9:36am

Is anyone else getting lots of texts and calls from icbf trying to sell Gene Ireland straws? They mustn't be selling very well this year.

blue5000 · 17-04-2015 9:42am

tanko wrote: »

Is anyone else getting lots of texts and calls from icbf trying to sell Gene Ireland straws? They mustn't be selling very well this year.

Nope, last time I used ai they waited till the few calves I got were weaned before I paid them. I reckon I got slops from sexed semen.

blue5000 · 17-04-2015 7:13pm

Has anyone noticed any big shifts? Couple of bulls I used are up 7 or 8 points for maternal.

p dogg · 17-04-2015 7:32pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Has anyone noticed any big shifts? Couple of bulls I used are up 7 or 8 points for maternal.

I have two pbnr curaheen apostle heifers, 20 months and 12 months, the 20 month old heifer is fingers crossed in calf to curaheen vio around 2 months, two good heifers they are but apostles latest proofs are dreadful, gone from around €180 maternal to €95 maternal, that's some drop!

blue5000 · 17-04-2015 7:40pm

p dogg wrote: »

I have two pbnr curaheen apostle heifers, 20 months and 12 months, the 20 month old heifer is fingers crossed in calf to curaheen vio around 2 months, two good heifers they are but apostles latest proofs are dreadful, gone from around €180 maternal to €95 maternal, that's some drop!

Ya the milk seems to be low, there's going to be a lot of ppl pissed off with that, the daughters must be no good to calve either, 10% diff but all depends what they are in calf to.

Still if you look under prev evaluations at aa bull aynho rossiter spllleing! his maternal figures are nearly halved.

onyerbikepat · 17-04-2015 8:46pm

p dogg wrote: »

.....but apostles latest proofs are dreadful, gone from around €180 maternal to €95 maternal, that's some drop!

I wouldn't pay any attention to that. His milk figures are only 22% reliability, so no data really. I've only the one APZ calf but he's growing like mad.

Pacoa · 17-04-2015 9:07pm

GADDAGH CUDDY REEKS has dropped a bit. 346 now, think he was 379 before?

Bellview · 19-04-2015 10:55pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Ya the milk seems to be low, there's going to be a lot of ppl pissed off with that, the daughters must be no good to calve either, 10% diff but all depends what they are in calf to.

Still if you look under prev evaluations at aa bull aynho rossiter spllleing! his maternal figures are nearly halved.

Having used rossiter I'm not surprised as they are poor cattle. Lot of him used in pb though as some ai's with vested interest moved him high on icbf agenda. Icbf maternal prog contained a lot of his sons in short list. Some of his sons in ai tough calvers. Noticed bosullow elmark is trying to catch the Charolais for calving difficulty and become an Angus cow killer....At over 7 per cent. One of his sons went into maternal prog last year and I have not seen him in gene Ireland yet.. Would like to know why he has not featured yet

Nettleman · 20-04-2015 12:09pm

Bellview wrote: »

Having used rossiter I'm not surprised as they are poor cattle. Lot of him used in pb though as some ai's with vested interest moved him high on icbf agenda. Icbf maternal prog contained a lot of his sons in short list. Some of his sons in ai tough calvers. Noticed bosullow elmark is trying to catch the Charolais for calving difficulty and become an Angus cow killer....At over 7 per cent. One of his sons went into maternal prog last year and I have not seen him in gene Ireland yet.. Would like to know why he has not featured yet

Curaheen Tyson-TSO has dropped a lot too. Was €243 maternal, now only €216, and was up at €296 in Dec 13.....

patsy_mccabe · 10-12-2015 10:59am

Tut, tut, 2 days late already.....

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208

Salerchamp · 10-12-2015 11:37am

The release of the updates is actually the highlight of my quarter! Love seeing if any bulls I've sold are producing the goods

bogman_bass · 10-12-2015 12:34pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Tut, tut, 2 days late already.....

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208

That's unusual :rolleyes:

The December proof is never on time. It'll be another week

stanflt · 10-12-2015 7:33pm

Updated

bogman_bass · 10-12-2015 8:05pm

I stand corrected

bogman_bass · 10-12-2015 8:05pm

Dairy only

Limestone Cowboy · 10-12-2015 8:10pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

Dairy only

I'm afraid of these new proofs, bought a bull earlier on in the year thinking he would comply for the scheme. 2 weeks and one new proof later and he was nearly star less!

patsy_mccabe · 14-12-2015 11:39am

Beef Proofs up now in Excel file;
http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200

tanko · 14-12-2015 12:31pm

Rubbish Internet here can't cope with that file. What is the calving difficulty for FSZ and ZAG now?

Nettleman · 14-12-2015 12:37pm

tanko wrote: »

Rubbish Internet here can't cope with that file. What is the calving difficulty for FSZ and ZAG now?

ZAG now at 4.9% CD. FSZ still same

patsy_mccabe · 14-12-2015 1:06pm

The NCBC Simmental bull Keeldrum Capone, KEZ is looking like a good bull too.
5.6% Calving (95% rel), weaning Wt and weaning price look good but docility not great. No milk figures yet.

Nettleman · 14-12-2015 1:12pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The NCBC Simmental bull Keeldrum Capone, KEZ is looking like a good bull too.
5.6% Calving (95% rel), weaning Wt and weaning price look good but docility not great. No milk figures yet.

aye, they badly need some decent SI bulls, the carryon a few years ago with curheen apostle was bad form-they were pushing him like mad and hes a one star now, with poor scores. More quality SI bulls please NCBC. I notice the column for "active available" is not in the december file-so you havent a clue whether you will get straws or not

blue5000 · 14-12-2015 1:47pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Beef Proofs up now in Excel file;
http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200

Thanks Patsy. Looking at this is better than being out in the rain anyway. Buying a bull these days is a like a lucky dip, or as forest gump would say 'Mama used always say life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get'

MLJ is gone up from 115 to 145 for maternal, so this should help my bull's figures anyway.

Bellview might be happy too, aynho rossiter has dropped a good bit!

tanko · 14-12-2015 2:04pm

Is there much change with GJB, ZFL and BJG?

blue5000 · 14-12-2015 2:18pm

tanko wrote: »

Is there much change with GJB, ZFL and BJG?

ZFL AA 2010 LISDUFF DANDY K895 SEBULLS €102 78 4 67 5 82
old €94 maternal

GJB AA 2010 GOULDING JUMBO KING K436 ET NCBC €93 81 3 54 4 76
old €102 maternal

BJG AA 2012 BUNLAHY JOHN G ET SEBULLS €109 42 4 76 5 86
old €96 maternal

Bellview · 14-12-2015 2:29pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Thanks Patsy. Looking at this is better than being out in the rain anyway. Buying a bull these days is a like a lucky dip, or as forest gump would say 'Mama used always say life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get'

MLJ is gone up from 115 to 145 for maternal, so this should help my bull's figures anyway.

Bellview might be happy too, aynho rossiter has dropped a good bit!

MLJ doing a nice job, on sat there were even a few MLJ sons that had cattle there which is a great sign of a bull when you see the grand kids...

U know me too well... only pity with Rossiter numbers is that it took so long to reflect what is the reality (although he is still rated too high IMO)... proves the UK system of numbers is as poor as ours. Unfortunately though a lot of harm has already been done as there are 3 sons in AI and the past 4 years as breeders we were told use Rossiter to get decent cattle.

Bunlahy is a beef mans bull though... great cattle but not for a dairy man. even within beef herds I would advise against him getting used on heifers just had a check Coneyisland has jumped up to 39 from 22.. still some way to go... and Nord is scoring worse at -29.. ironically some of Nord grand kids made over 4k on Saturday and a Coneylisland made just under 6k

patsy_mccabe · 14-12-2015 2:40pm

Poor Ardlea Dan (ADX) hasn't enough milk to colour the tae. Now in the bottom 1% for milk.

tanko · 14-12-2015 2:53pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Poor Ardlea Dan (ADX) hasn't enough milk to colour the tae. Now in the bottom 1% for milk.

When you look at his breeding his daughters were never going to be any good for milk. Both his sire Vivaldi and mothers sire Nenuphar are very poor for it.
He should never have been given 5* for daughters milk to start with.
Paper doesn't refuse ink in those feckin Ai catalogues.

blue5000 · 14-12-2015 3:03pm

I think the simmenthal society need to start a slaughter scheme, there is almost 50 bulls in ai that are 1 star for maternal AND terminal. That's just within breed. Have they included dairy simmenthals as well?

bogman_bass · 14-12-2015 3:42pm

Nettleman wrote: »

. I notice the column for "active available" is not in the december file-so you havent a clue whether you will get straws or not

That's for the active bull list. The file above is for all bulls

bogman_bass · 14-12-2015 3:48pm

TZT might be an option for lads looking for a maternal CH. Easy calving too. I always thought he was a nice looking bull but one of these bulls that just dropped off the radar when the next big thing came along.

Edit: Could only a picture on a french site for him http://www.genesdiffusion.com/Charolais/Charolais-detail.aspx?n=FR1001832316

croot · 14-12-2015 4:36pm

Just checked all the bulls I used this Autumn and all but one have dropped.

ZCH is the worst that I see and he has dropped a lot on both indexes.

Good thing though is MLJ and BZB rising. I have a few cows out of them and I suppose it'll balance out a bit.

wiggy123 · 14-12-2015 9:42pm

as bulls go up, they can go down as quickly, from what I see..
also will they be on benefit...stars?

Farrell · 14-12-2015 11:43pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

TZT might be an option for lads looking for a maternal CH. Easy calving too. I always thought he was a nice looking bull but one of these bulls that just dropped off the radar when the next big thing came along.

Edit: Could only a picture on a french site for him http://www.genesdiffusion.com/Charolais/Charolais-detail.aspx?n=FR1001832316

His sire is Nelson, who is poor for maternal, or is it a different Nelson.
See Impair & Pinay are top CH on Maternal, pity straws for neither can be got.

bogman_bass · 15-12-2015 12:04am

Nelson is 4 stars within breed for maternal.

Toledo is 109 for maternal in France

Farrell · 15-12-2015 12:07am

bogman_bass wrote: »

Nelson is 4 stars within breed for maternal.

Toledo is 109 for maternal in France

Ok, took a quick look earlier & took it up that he was in minus figures.
I'll give a better review next week

Bellview · 15-12-2015 1:10am

wiggy123 wrote: »

as bulls go up, they can go down as quickly, from what I see..
also will they be on benefit...stars?

ICBF will keep us guessing where the genomic scheme could bring us...

Salerchamp · 19-12-2015 12:11pm

Had a look at the excel for ai bulls last night and noticed some bulls had a code beginning with F e.g F211. Does this mean straws were taken for private use? The owner was down as DOA as well.

wiggy123 · 19-12-2015 8:23pm

I think bulls within, Progressive anyway are doing away with names/codes(letter) for bulls in AI, it will be No's now... maybe the F = friesan, no? breed letter,then a no

new ICBF Proofs

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