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Anti-vaxxers

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,577 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I think given the choice, most people would choose a child without Autism.

    Cite evidence that vaccines cause autism please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭francois


    Cite evidence that vaccines cause autism please.

    *crickets & tumbleweed*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭francois




  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Cite evidence that vaccines cause autism please.

    The burden of proof is on you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    The burden of proof is on you.
    You're claiming that autism is caused by vaccines... So you are required to offer proof.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    batgoat wrote: »
    You're claiming that autism is caused by vaccines... So you are required to offer proof.

    I am saying that there are question marks. They haven’t been proved safe.

    In healthcare the burden of proof lies with the side who are saying it’s safe.

    I am married to a GP and while he privately supports our stance, he would be crucified if it was publicly known he was against vaccines. A number of his colleagues feel the same way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    I am saying that there are question marks. They haven’t been proved safe.

    In healthcare the burden of proof lies with the side who are saying it’s safe.

    And they are proven safe through clinical trials, not social media comments by conspiracy theorists

    I am married to a GP and while he privately supports our stance, he would be crucified if it was publicly known he was against vaccines. A number of his colleagues feel the same way.

    If he truly believes vaccines are unsafe and of course can prove it, he would be ethically bound to publish the information, as would his colleagues.
    Otherwise it's hearsay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    I am saying that there are question marks. They haven’t been proved safe.

    In healthcare the burden of proof lies with the side who are saying it’s safe.

    I am married to a GP and while he privately supports our stance, he would be crucified if it was publicly known he was against vaccines. A number of his colleagues feel the same way.

    They are proven to be safe. You are not providing that they are unsafe and frankly your view of people with autism is abominable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    batgoat wrote: »
    They are proven to be safe. You are not providing that they are unsafe and frankly your view of people with autism is abominable.

    My view of people with autism? What are you talking about?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    My view of people with autism? What are you talking about?

    I suspect the fact that you would prefer your son to die from measles than risk him becoming autistic.

    Ask your husband how many children become brain damaged from measles etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    I am married to a GP and while he privately supports our stance, he would be crucified if it was publicly known he was against vaccines. A number of his colleagues feel the same way.


    Cool story bro..........

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    My view of people with autism? What are you talking about?
    You would rather endanger the lives of children because of the baseless assumptions that vaccines cause autism. Autism is bad enough to risk your child's life? That's how I've made the conclusion. In addition, you're now claiming to be married to a GP as if that adds credence to your argument, it doesn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    I suspect the fact that you would prefer your son to die from measles than risk him becoming autistic.

    Ask your husband how many children become brain damaged from measles etc.

    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.

    Who said it would only be slight brain damage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Who said it would only be slight brain damage?

    My husband.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    My husband.
    lol

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    lol

    Oh ok you know more than a doctor now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Who said it would only be slight brain damage?

    Roald Dahl's daughter died as a result of encephalatis via measles. Wrote this letter in relation to it.

    https://www.roalddahl.com/roald-dahl/timeline/1960s/november-1962


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Oh ok you know more than a doctor now.
    What doctor?

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
    Common Complications
    Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.

    Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
    Severe Complications
    Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

    As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
    About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
    For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
    Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.

    Slight ? Believe you me I know its not slight . I have nursed children brain damaged from measles encephalitis and it is not by any stretch slight . Its is devastatingly horrible


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    batgoat wrote: »
    Roald Dahl's daughter died as a result of encephalatis via measles. Wrote this letter in relation to it.

    https://www.roalddahl.com/roald-dahl/timeline/1960s/november-1962

    Without her dying we wouldn’t have gotten The BFG.

    Obviously not saying her dying was a good thing necessarily but everything happens for a reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Spleerbun


    I don't follow this vax debate much as I find it so ridiculous, but I wonder is it one of the few topics where both those on the left and right side of the political spectrum can down tools and come together on? And as a result weed out the proper retards among us (ironically yes, the biggest retards of them all) who are anti vaccinations?

    Or does this debate debate also have a left Vs right political element to it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭francois



    I am married to a GP

    No you are not


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭francois


    Looks like we have a real live troll here: new account, few posts...don't bother feeding


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    francois wrote: »
    Looks like we have a real live troll here: new account, few posts...don't bother feeding

    Oh right I’m a troll now because I don’t tow the vaccine line.

    And you wonder why people are afraid to question the status quo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Oh right I’m a troll now because I don’t tow the vaccine line.

    And you wonder why people are afraid to question the status quo.

    No , because you are spouting rubbish


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Oh right I’m a troll now because I don’t tow the vaccine line.
    And you wonder why people are afraid to question the status quo.




    Fart

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭francois


    Oh right I’m a troll now because I don’t tow the vaccine line.

    And you wonder why people are afraid to question the status quo.

    Yup. Posting history with a few cliched CT tropes. Not particularly original,but you got a few responses.
    *golf clap*
    4/10 for effort


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭Mike Oxlong


    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.

    I don't think it's slight


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,309 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Spleerbun wrote: »

    Or does this debate debate also have a left Vs right political element to it?
    It has been politicised, but I would be hesitant to attach a left-wing or right-wing label onto it. You will come across anti-vaxxers of all political persuasions and none. The common denominator of those leading the anti-vaxx conspiracy theories is that all of them are making money out of it in some, way, shape or form. They see a market for scaremongering, selling "herbal cures" and "think yourself well again" self help books and other new age quackery. Sure look at Wakefield, the man responsible for these new measles outbreaks. He wasn't anti-vaccination, he just wanted his vaccine to be used so he could make a fortune.

    When it comes to people on the ground that buy into all their anti-vaxx quackery, I don't think you could divide them by left or right either. We are talking more about personality type IMO. You can usually split them into two camps, the belligerent ones that "don't want to do what the man tells them to". The second would be more naive and believe everything they see on Facebook is true. The former will usually always have other "theories" regarding chemtrails/flouride/insert other and think of themselves as "outside the box" and "in the know." The latter will go from barmy idea to barmy idea without ever being a true believer. If it wasn't anti-vaxx they would be taken in by something else.

    Look at it this way. All political parties from The Workers Party to Solidarity/PBP to SF, Lab and Soc Dems to FF and FG are all pro-vaccination. Those against it are usually Independents and a few scatterings of backbenchers from one or two of the main parties. It is one of the few issues that all (well most) of the TDs in Dáil Éireann would agree on.

    This has political and medical consensus. Even the Catholic church are fine with them! But the internet is a funny place. The message is uncontrolled and this makes it easy to whip up fear. It's like the old saying that “a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth puts its shoes on.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    Without her dying we wouldn’t have gotten The BFG.

    Obviously not saying her dying was a good thing necessarily but everything happens for a reason.

    I don’t even...

    Eh...

    No. Best not.

    What a moronic post. Horrible.

    I know how vaccines work. I have a PhD in the field, and I worked as an immunologist dealing with immune responses to vaccines. So my years of research and work probably mean I know what I’m talking about.

    Vaccines are safe and a benefit to society. You are neither.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Some of the sheeple on this thread are outrageously niaeve. None of you have an understanding of how vaccines work or the side affects they may incur but are happy to brand anti-vaxxers as loons.

    I haven’t vaccinated my son and won’t be doing so in the future. Look into it before you declare judgement.
    So you're risking your son's life based on anti scientific nonsense and wootube videos. Well done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    sullivlo wrote: »
    I don’t even...

    Eh...

    No. Best not.

    What a moronic post. Horrible.

    I know how vaccines work. I have a PhD in the field, and I worked as an immunologist dealing with immune responses to vaccines. So my years of research and work probably mean I know what I’m talking about.

    Vaccines are safe and a benefit to society. You are neither.
    In the field?

    What’s your thesis on?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,577 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The burden of proof is on you.

    You're making the assertions. I'm not doing your work for you.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    In the field?

    What’s your thesis on?

    A more relevant topic than yours.

    I have worked on the immune response in different types of cells, from the immune system being over active in disorders like rheumatoid arthritis, to drug resistant bacteria and how our bodies respond to them, and most importantly: vaccine development.

    No work was funded by NWO or any other tinfoil hat group.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I am saying that there are question marks. They haven’t been proved safe.
    There are no question marks about the risks to health of preventable disease.

    There are no question that some diseases can be completely eradicated.


    In healthcare the burden of proof lies with the side who are saying it’s safe.
    So you are saying that millions more people should die because you refuse to accept survey after survey shows that autism is not correlated with vaccine use.

    The burden of proof was met.

    Continuing to deny evidence does not make it go away, it does not refute it.


    I am married to a GP and while he privately supports our stance, he would be crucified if it was publicly known he was against vaccines. A number of his colleagues feel the same way.
    Yeah, right .


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,577 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Oh right I’m a troll now because I don’t tow the vaccine line.

    And you wonder why people are afraid to question the status quo.

    You're not questioning anything. You're posting nonsense that even you can't be bothered to elaborate on or substantiate. It's simply getting an appropriate response.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.

    Talking from personal experience?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    The burden of proof is on you.

    What? That's not how it works at all.

    There are thousands of peer reviewed and confirmed studies proving there is -no-link between autism and vaccinations.

    You're claiming there is a link, so you need to prove it. The burden of proof is on you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,829 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    The run in question wasn't to deliver vaccines (It was in 1925, after all.) Still, nice sentiment:

    2ywa2d3.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭waxmoth


    mzungu wrote: »
    It is ethical to use an adjuvant instead of the vaccine in trials where the vaccine will have that adjuvant in it. Aluminium adjuvants can be used as placebo as they have been around long enough to have been studied for safety.
    But they have never been studied for safety, are not inert, and it is highly unethical to use a nontherapeutic substance with adverse effects in a control population.
    mzungu wrote: »
    To get meaningful detail you have to look at full papers and often there is not full disclosure of methodology and results. On the ones you have linked…

    1. Non-aluminium based ASO1B adjuvant, very small trial and not a healthy study population (HIV)
    2. Side effects were not studied and adjuvant not described but probably squalene based.
    3. Small trial (66 individuals) non-aluminium based adjuvant
    4. Small trial (68) only 12 received saline placebo
    5. Non-aluminium adjuvant (ASO3)
    6. Adjuvant not described but commonly squalene based in this type of vaccine.
    7. Very small trial – 9 saline subjects
    8. Trial proposal no results
    9. Literature review of 13 HPV vaccine trials. 11 use aluminium adjuvant as placebo. 2 saline placebo with 1 being in an immunodeficient population (HIV) and the other a medium sized study which showed less adverse experiences in the smaller saline arm. All serious events were in the vaccine arm.
    10. Study population requirement to have been fully HPV vaccinated previously which would remove susceptibles. All discontinuations due to serious events were from the vaccine/adjuvant arm. Placebo arm 50% size of vaccine arm.

    As the trials are carried out in ideal conditions the adverse events are best case scenario and will be elevated in actual vaccination populations compared to selected study groups.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Worse than anti-vaxxers are this new breed of "on the fence" doubters. The individuals who pick over insignificant or out-of-context technical details

    It's like they are smart enough to know they can't directly argue with facts like vaccines prevent diseases and there's no link between vaccines and autism.. instead they sit on the sidelines, delving into semantics, technicalities, anything in order to cast a bit of "doubt" on the subject, to muddy the waters


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Worse than anti-vaxxers are this new breed of "on the fence" doubters. The individuals who pick over insignificant or out-of-context technical details

    It's like they are smart enough to know they can't directly argue with facts like vaccines prevent diseases and there's no link between vaccines and autism.. instead they sit on the sidelines, delving into semantics, technicalities, anything in order to cast a bit of "doubt" on the subject, to muddy the waters

    It's a recognised trait of conspiracy theorist kniw as anomaly hunters.

    Find a percieved anomaly and build a theory around it rather than look at the evidence in its totality.

    In the case of the saline placebos highlight the small numbers used but ignore the post approval studies that prove them to be valid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,608 ✭✭✭✭The Princess Bride


    I would take slight brain damage over severe autism any day.
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Slight ? Believe you me I know its not slight . I have nursed children brain damaged from measles encephalitis and it is not by any stretch slight . Its is devastatingly horrible

    Once in my life, just once, I nursed a child with Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis, caused by measles.

    I remember their name.
    I remember the room they were in.
    I remember precisely what they looked like and what their care involved.
    It was 32 years ago and I remember everything.

    I wish I could forget.

    Believe me, there was nothing slight about their brain damage.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,516 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    17523329_1959614184269975_183165357943165919_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=0e615fde574218e97d4a5e949f598bc4&oe=5D20F5C3


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Once in my life, just once, I nursed a child with Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis, caused by measles.

    I remember their name.
    I remember the room they were in.
    I remember precisely what they looked like and what their care involved.
    It was 32 years ago and I remember everything.

    I wish I could forget.

    Believe me, there was nothing slight about their brain damage.

    I wish I could forget too . And I still see the parents who were broken and desperate . If they could turn back time they would have and its was killing them .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Newstalk's "Futureproof" programme today reporting a new Danish study that comprehensively concludes there's no connection between MMR vac and autism.

    Apparently the children who didn't have the vac presented a slightly higher incidence of autism than those who had the vac.
    (I had a quick look on the website but can't see an obvious link to podcast, sorry)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Newstalk's "Futureproof" programme today reporting a new Danish study that comprehensively concludes there's no connection between MMR vac and autism.

    Apparently the children who didn't have the vac presented a slightly higher incidence of autism than those who had the vac.
    (I had a quick look on the website but can't see an obvious link to podcast, sorry)

    https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2727726/measles-mumps-rubella-vaccination-autism-nationwide-cohort-study
    Participants:

    657 461 children born in Denmark from 1999 through 31 December 2010, with follow-up from 1 year of age and through 31 August 2013.

    ...
    Conclusion:

    The study strongly supports that MMR vaccination does not increase the risk for autism, does not trigger autism in susceptible children, and is not associated with clustering of autism cases after vaccination. It adds to previous studies through significant additional statistical power and by addressing hypotheses of susceptible subgroups and clustering of cases.

    But the Anti-Vaxxers will stick their fingers in their ears and go "I can't hear you"


    But no matter, hundreds of thousands have died and will die because of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 Encephalopathy


    Newstalk's "Futureproof" programme today reporting a new Danish study that comprehensively concludes there's no connection between MMR vac and autism.

    Apparently the children who didn't have the vac presented a slightly higher incidence of autism than those who had the vac.
    (I had a quick look on the website but can't see an obvious link to podcast, sorry)
    According to the study, children are 7% more likely to develop autism if they don't get the MMR, they really overcooked the books with that one and what happened to the provaxxers opinion that all people diagnosed with autism is something their born with, a child can't just develop autism, missed signs and all that malarkey.


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