Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

robopaddy2 · 21-07-2016 3:39am

Whiplash85 wrote: »

dishdash wrote: »

That's a really great piece of analysis....better than anything I read in the paper, and fairly balanced.
Thanks for posting

To be honest I Think its a pile of drivel. More holes in that analysis than a swiss cheese and massive straw clutching going on.

Where to start.

Tipp being more motivated to win is a weird one. I would have thought that having doled out the mother and father of all eviscerations in 2011 and lost previous 4 times to Tipp that Waterford might have had a motivational angle coming into the game.

Analogies with Jack Charlton. Ireland under Charlton actually won important knock out games. Waterford haven't.

Losing ball under pressure through carrying it and being turned over or hitting it to double marked players. So what is it then? Tipp won because ye are predictable and there is no flexibility to adapt within the Waterford "system".

Incidentally it wasn't a freak occurence as he alluded to. Waterford played with a sweeper in 2011 as well and lost by 21 points. So this is just a case of history repeating itself. Happened numerous times before that as well.

Hitting pot shots and looking at the wide count and using that as a crutch is pathetic as well. Waterford always hit a lot of wides because they dont play the percentages and take shots from out the field. They are NOT good scoring chances.

I cant even be bothered referring to bits about Waterford training 6 times a week and Colligan Woods. Absolute Bull****.

But I agree with his theory that Tipp were lucky on the day. Haha. Do me a favour...

Why so bitter? What did you want to see written? That the result was an accurate reflection in the gulf between the sides? A bit delusional yourself if you believe that

Whiplash85 · 21-07-2016 11:26am

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Why so bitter? What did you want to see written? That the result was an accurate reflection in the gulf between the sides? A bit delusional yourself if you believe that

Some of the analysis is akin to "if only we had put out the child of Prague before the game the conditions would have suited more". I think Kilkenny and Tipp in that order are the 2 best teams in the country by some distance. Then there is Galway marooned in third position (pardon the pun). And then you have a whole host of counties like Waterford, Wexford, Dublin, Clare, Limerick who can all beat each other on any given day. Then theres Cork (less said the better).

The "Pundits" who the original poster hypothesised lead Waterford into a relaxed state after tipping them to win all week also includes John Mullane who said “I firmly believe now that we can go the whole way. I know we don’t want to get carried away, but it’s going to take one hell of a team to beat this Waterford team.”

You just have to find better excuses or fundamental reasons for losing rather than the dog ate my homework. I cannot fathom how the likes of Mullane and a few of the old guard are putting this team on a pedestal saying they were better than the Waterford team of the mid noughties. There was matchwinners all over that team, a few munster medals, legends of the game like McGrath, Browne and Flynn. Epic contests with a star studded Cork team. An AI appearance, hurler of the year awards. They would strike fear into any team and played with flair.

By comparison this team has done nothing and will continue to do nothing within the straitjacket of a system.

O Riain · 21-07-2016 1:37pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Why so bitter? What did you want to see written? That the result was an accurate reflection in the gulf between the sides? A bit delusional yourself if you believe that

Some of the analysis is akin to "if only we had put out the child of Prague before the game the conditions would have suited more". I think Kilkenny and Tipp in that order are the 2 best teams in the country by some distance. Then there is Galway marooned in third position (pardon the pun). And then you have a whole host of counties like Waterford, Wexford, Dublin, Clare, Limerick who can all beat each other on any given day. Then theres Cork (less said the better).

The "Pundits" who the original poster hypothesised lead Waterford into a relaxed state after tipping them to win all week also includes John Mullane who said I firmly believe now that we can go the whole way. I know we don t want to get carried away, but it s going to take one hell of a team to beat this Waterford team.

You just have to find better excuses or fundamental reasons for losing rather than the dog ate my homework. I cannot fathom how the likes of Mullane and a few of the old guard are putting this team on a pedestal saying they were better than the Waterford team of the mid noughties. There was matchwinners all over that team, a few munster medals, legends of the game like McGrath, Browne and Flynn. Epic contests with a star studded Cork team. An AI appearance, hurler of the year awards. They would strike fear into any team and played with flair.

By comparison this team has done nothing and will continue to do nothing within the straitjacket of a system.

So is it the system or the players that is not up to scratch? You say the players are not worth anything but then blame the system. Which is it?

A lot of these players are very young, still under 21 but up to this point they have won every competition there is to win except for senior competitions. That will come with age.

Everybody seems to be blaming Waterford for the recent 'demise' of hurling. I can tell you one thing, hurling has never been strong. At any one time you only have about 2 or 3 teams max that could be counted as real All Ireland contenders and then frequent trashing handed out to the other teams. Those teams that get thrashed by the genuine contenders would then be able to hand out epic beatings to weaker teams themselves. The gulf is massive, not enough counties involved and not enough teams who could actually win the bloody thing.

Hurling has been on it's knees for a long long time now, don't blame Waterford for that. But then, people in Kilkenny and Tipperary would be happy with hurling being dead as a sport in Ireland as long they keep winning the All Ireland. Absolutely disgraceful way of thinking. They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

Edit: Up to this year, all the teams outside of the big three have won a total of 35 All Ireland's between them. That's 1 less than Kilkenny have in total.

The Big Three: 96
All other teams: 35

Yeah, hurling was always strong in the whole Island of Ireland.

O Riain · 21-07-2016 1:41pm

Up to this year, all the teams outside of the big three have won a total of 35 All Ireland's between them. That's 1 less than Kilkenny have in total.

The Big Three: 96
All other teams: 35

Yeah, hurling was always strong in the whole Island of Ireland.

bruschi · 21-07-2016 2:44pm

O Riain wrote: »

They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

yes, lets thank everyone for how great Waterford is keeping hurling tradition alive considering how Wexford have disappeared off the face of the planet.

I am genuinely curious as to how you think you are so far above Wexford? Nevermind even on the hurling field in games against each other, nor any recent AI wins, but the fact you are the ones keeping the tradition alive. Brilliant!

Talk about a high horse, superiority complex and condescending all in one post.

Whiplash85 · 21-07-2016 3:59pm

O Riain wrote: »

So is it the system or the players that is not up to scratch? You say the players are not worth anything but then blame the system. Which is it?

A lot of these players are very young, still under 21 but up to this point they have won every competition there is to win except for senior competitions. That will come with age.

Everybody seems to be blaming Waterford for the recent 'demise' of hurling. I can tell you one thing, hurling has never been strong. At any one time you only have about 2 or 3 teams max that could be counted as real All Ireland contenders and then frequent trashing handed out to the other teams. Those teams that get thrashed by the genuine contenders would then be able to hand out epic beatings to weaker teams themselves. The gulf is massive, not enough counties involved and not enough teams who could actually win the bloody thing.

Hurling has been on it's knees for a long long time now, don't blame Waterford for that. But then, people in Kilkenny and Tipperary would be happy with hurling being dead as a sport in Ireland as long they keep winning the All Ireland. Absolutely disgraceful way of thinking. They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

Edit: Up to this year, all the teams outside of the big three have won a total of 35 All Ireland's between them. That's 1 less than Kilkenny have in total.

The Big Three: 96
All other teams: 35

Yeah, hurling was always strong in the whole Island of Ireland.

Another absolute load of waffle and condescension. Could you point out in my post where I said the current side aren't worth anything?
By the way Wexford have been far more successful at minor and U21 in recent years than Waterford. Won numerous underage titles and beating Kilkenny and Dublin sides (who have been financially backed to the hilt). Have Waterford beaten Wexford ever in championship hurling in senior. Indeed Wexford have won an All Ireland in recent memory in 1996. You could get a right land on Sunday if Wexford reappear on that planet of yours where you reside.

Whiplash85 · 21-07-2016 4:05pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Another absolute load of waffle and condescension. Could you point out in my post where I said the current side aren't worth anything?
By the way Wexford have been far more successful at minor and U21 in recent years than Waterford. Won numerous underage titles and beating Kilkenny and Dublin sides (who have been financially backed to the hilt). Have Waterford beaten Wexford ever in championship hurling in senior. Indeed Wexford have won an All Ireland in recent memory in 1996. You could get a right land on Sunday if Wexford reappear on that planet of yours where you reside.

Plus people are not lamenting the relative weakness of the game in other counties. Its the optics. No one goes to see a game which is like an arm wrestle. They go to see entertaining one on one duels, high catches, great goals, kevin Broderick style points or a goal like Austin Gleeson scored in his break through year v's Cork. You dont get a scent of that normally when Waterford play.

Having said all that hurling needs a strong Cork at the top table again. It is not good for the GAA and hurling to see their demise. Kilkenny on the other hand....

con89 · 21-07-2016 5:49pm

Waterford have beaten Wexford in championship hurling. 2008, the sides have only met once in the championship since.

I wouldn't refer to 1996 as recent. And Wexford haven't been anywhere near AI success since. 5 semi final appearances in 20 years (the most recent of which was in 2007), and no AI final appearance since either.

I'm not saying we'll definitely beat them sunday, but what I am saying is, they certainly haven't been contenders recently.

con89 · 21-07-2016 7:09pm

I think the point O'Riain is making, is that Wexford, should possibly, have done better over the past 20 years.

They have a far bigger pick (population 150,000) than the likes of Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Clare, Westmeath, Offaly, Kerry, Laois etc (and considering their footballers are still rooted to division 4), yet they've never been seen as real championship contenders since 1996.

PTH2009 · 21-07-2016 10:07pm

Galways Alan Kelly referee Sunday in our game

Don't knw much about him TBH

wats the craic · 21-07-2016 10:14pm

con89 wrote: »

I think the point O'Riain is making, is that Wexford, should possibly, have done better over the past 20 years.

They have a far bigger pick (population 150,000) than the likes of Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Clare, Westmeath, Offaly, Kerry, Laois etc (and considering their footballers are still rooted to division 4), yet they've never been seen as real championship contenders since 1996.

remind me again when waterford last won the allireland huh

The blue blaa · 21-07-2016 10:36pm

wats the craic wrote: »

remind me again when waterford last won the allireland huh

2013 to be exact

wats the craic · 21-07-2016 10:59pm

The blue blaa wrote: »

2013 to be exact

underage dont count only senior

robopaddy2 · 21-07-2016 11:25pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

By the way Wexford have been far more successful at minor and U21 in recent years than Waterford. Won numerous underage titles and beating Kilkenny and Dublin sides (who have been financially backed to the hilt). Have Waterford beaten Wexford ever in championship hurling in senior.

Wexford haven't won a Leinster minor in 30 years. Waterford beat Wexford in 2008 AI QF.

For someone who likes to tell everyone else how their posts are 'drivel' and 'waffle' you seem to be prone to a bit of it yourself

robopaddy2 · 21-07-2016 11:35pm

wats the craic wrote: »

The blue blaa wrote: »

2013 to be exact

underage dont count only senior

My da's bigger than your da

wats the craic · 22-07-2016 6:56am

robopaddy2 wrote: »

My da's bigger than your da

we will see sunday san when we bait ya lol

O Riain · 22-07-2016 1:30pm

bruschi wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

yes, lets thank everyone for how great Waterford is keeping hurling tradition alive considering how Wexford have disappeared off the face of the planet.

I am genuinely curious as to how you think you are so far above Wexford? Nevermind even on the hurling field in games against each other, nor any recent AI wins, but the fact you are the ones keeping the tradition alive. Brilliant!

Talk about a high horse, superiority complex and condescending all in one post.

I never said we were superior. Far from it but it's no secret that Wexford have been extremely poor for a long long time. Their best win in years has been beating an extremely poor Cork side. Enough said.

I'm not on a high horse, I understand we are not in a position to win the AI outright, I haven't got a superiority complex but at least have been competitive with the best (except for our tri-annual hiding at this stage) and I'm not trying to be condescending, i am simply saying that hurling is in a dire state.

bruschi · 22-07-2016 2:17pm

O Riain wrote: »

I never said we were superior. Far from it but it's no secret that Wexford have been extremely poor for a long long time. Their best win in years has been beating an extremely poor Cork side. Enough said.

I'm not on a high horse, I understand we are not in a position to win the AI outright, I haven't got a superiority complex but at least have been competitive with the best (except for our tri-annual hiding at this stage) and I'm not trying to be condescending, i am simply saying that hurling is in a dire state.

this is your exact quote

O Riain wrote: »

They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

please tell me how you could think anyone would take that as anything other than being extremely condescending. As if Wexford should be looking to Waterford as some bastions of righteousness keeping the tradition of hurling alive.

there is a fair bit of difference between saying a team have been extremely poor and saying they have disappeared off the face of the planet.

And their best win in years was beating a poor Cork side? So beating the reigning AI champions and knocking them out doesnt count as a decent win. Spare me.

good luck to ye on the weekend, I only hope we can take some solace in our loss to the standard bearers of hurling and can somehow strive to get the tradition of hurling back in our county.

O Riain · 22-07-2016 4:57pm

bruschi wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

I never said we were superior. Far from it but it's no secret that Wexford have been extremely poor for a long long time. Their best win in years has been beating an extremely poor Cork side. Enough said.

I'm not on a high horse, I understand we are not in a position to win the AI outright, I haven't got a superiority complex but at least have been competitive with the best (except for our tri-annual hiding at this stage) and I'm not trying to be condescending, i am simply saying that hurling is in a dire state.

this is your exact quote

O Riain wrote: »

They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

please tell me how you could think anyone would take that as anything other than being extremely condescending. As if Wexford should be looking to Waterford as some bastions of righteousness keeping the tradition of hurling alive.

there is a fair bit of difference between saying a team have been extremely poor and saying they have disappeared off the face of the planet.

And their best win in years was beating a poor Cork side? So beating the reigning AI champions and knocking them out doesnt count as a decent win. Spare me.

good luck to ye on the weekend, I only hope we can take some solace in our loss to the standard bearers of hurling and can somehow strive to get the tradition of hurling back in our county.

Trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive. TRYING! Never said we were superior so will you shut up.

Are you from Wexford or not?

If you are from Wexford then tell me right now that you are happy with the performance of the Wexford hurling team over the last 10 years.

dishdash · 22-07-2016 8:29pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

To be honest I Think its a pile of drivel. More holes in that analysis than a swiss cheese and massive straw clutching going on.

Where to start.

Tipp being more motivated to win is a weird one. I would have thought that having doled out the mother and father of all eviscerations in 2011 and lost previous 4 times to Tipp that Waterford might have had a motivational angle coming into the game.

Analogies with Jack Charlton. Ireland under Charlton actually won important knock out games. Waterford haven't.

Losing ball under pressure through carrying it and being turned over or hitting it to double marked players. So what is it then? Tipp won because ye are predictable and there is no flexibility to adapt within the Waterford "system".

Incidentally it wasn't a freak occurence as he alluded to. Waterford played with a sweeper in 2011 as well and lost by 21 points. So this is just a case of history repeating itself. Happened numerous times before that as well.

Hitting pot shots and looking at the wide count and using that as a crutch is pathetic as well. Waterford always hit a lot of wides because they dont play the percentages and take shots from out the field. They are NOT good scoring chances.

I cant even be bothered referring to bits about Waterford training 6 times a week and Colligan Woods. Absolute Bull****.

But I agree with his theory that Tipp were lucky on the day. Haha. Do me a favour...

It was a well written piece, where the author -fair play to him/her- put his points across in a cogent way.
One could disagree with everything that was said-but admire the way it was written
Too often I see written rants on forums, with the use of expletives and misuse of grammer in a clumsy effort to communicate a point of view.
That wasn't the case with this post- and hence my praise for it.

On another matter, I would favour a return to knockout championship. If anything, it would strengthen the club championship. If would be better for Waterford to go home now- I don't see the value in them continuing in a competition which they clearly have no hope of winning. I don't mean any disrespect to the county- but I cannot see the benefit of continuing the intercounty season for weaker counties in the current climate.
A victory against wexford can only lead to a heavy defeat against Kilkenny.... which is of no use to either players or supporters

dishdash · 22-07-2016 8:39pm

O Riain wrote: »

So is it the system or the players that is not up to scratch? You say the players are not worth anything but then blame the system. Which is it?

A lot of these players are very young, still under 21 but up to this point they have won every competition there is to win except for senior competitions. That will come with age.

Everybody seems to be blaming Waterford for the recent 'demise' of hurling. I can tell you one thing, hurling has never been strong. At any one time you only have about 2 or 3 teams max that could be counted as real All Ireland contenders and then frequent trashing handed out to the other teams. Those teams that get thrashed by the genuine contenders would then be able to hand out epic beatings to weaker teams themselves. The gulf is massive, not enough counties involved and not enough teams who could actually win the bloody thing.

Hurling has been on it's knees for a long long time now, don't blame Waterford for that. But then, people in Kilkenny and Tipperary would be happy with hurling being dead as a sport in Ireland as long they keep winning the All Ireland. Absolutely disgraceful way of thinking. They should be delighted that a tiny little county in the South East is trying it's best to keep the hurling tradition alive when the likes of Wexford and Offaly have disappeared off the face of the planet.

Edit: Up to this year, all the teams outside of the big three have won a total of 35 All Ireland's between them. That's 1 less than Kilkenny have in total.

The Big Three: 96
All other teams: 35

Yeah, hurling was always strong in the whole Island of Ireland.

I would agree that hurling is in real trouble, almost everywhere.
It's far too difficult a game to learn and play, in comparison with other field sports. Kids may not bother, as much as they used to, particularly when they lack any heroes within their own county to emulate in the sport.
Personally I believe it could die a death in the Tipps and Kilkennys of this world, in time.

For example, handball was widely played in Ireland years ago. Witness all the disused alleys throughout Ireland bearing testament to the sports bygone heyday... it's now little more than a curiosity sport played by a small number of people.

Sports can die folks. I'd be sad to see hurling go that way- but I believe it may well do so

mickmackmcgoo · 22-07-2016 9:20pm

Unchanged from last time for Sunday. Surprising

Deskjockey · 22-07-2016 9:37pm

dishdash wrote: »

I would agree that hurling is in real trouble, almost everywhere.
It's far too difficult a game to learn and play, in comparison with other field sports. Kids may not bother, as much as they used to, particularly when they lack any heroes within their own county to emulate in the sport.
Personally I believe it could die a death in the Tipps and Kilkennys of this world, in time.

For example, handball was widely played in Ireland years ago. Witness all the disused alleys throughout Ireland bearing testament to the sports bygone heyday... it's now little more than a curiosity sport played by a small number of people.

Sports can die folks. I'd be sad to see hurling go that way- but I believe it may well do so

Hurling will never die. It's the best game in the world. I don't think you can compare a sport that had a max crowd ever of 2,000 (I'm guessing) with a sport that can attract crowds of 30k to 80k consistently every year. Living in Kilkenny it will never die.

Deskjockey · 22-07-2016 9:38pm

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Unchanged from last time for Sunday. Surprising

Really.?? Now that is a shock. ??!!

mickmackmcgoo · 22-07-2016 9:43pm

Deskjockey wrote:

Really.?? Now that is a shock. ??!!

I did think Stephen Bennett would get in

O Riain · 22-07-2016 9:45pm

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Unchanged from last time for Sunday. Surprising

Why? It's our best team really, was just an awful awful day.

Hopefully it was just a once off.

Gavlor · 22-07-2016 10:02pm

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

I did think Stephen Bennett would get in

Carrying a knock apparently. Probably too much too soon

seananigans · 22-07-2016 10:16pm

O Riain wrote: »

Why? It's our best team really, was just an awful awful day.

Hopefully it was just a once off.

play a different team dent their confidence , pleay the same show them you believe in them and ask them to redeem themselves best team we have why wouldnt we play them ?

hurler on de ditch · 22-07-2016 10:17pm

Gavlor wrote: »

Carrying a knock apparently. Probably too much too soon

as i said before ,in the current system ,it would be all the same if you had ,Ritchie Hogan,Joe Canning ,or 4 Stephen Bennetts

dubcat51 · 22-07-2016 10:26pm

Is Derek going to let your boys off the leash on Sunday. Or will the system prevail. At least wexford will have a cut.

PTH2009 · 22-07-2016 11:19pm

Feeling the nerves now. Can see big changes if we are too lose Sunday in the senior setup

If the under 21s win Munster and get to an all Ireland final than that management team could be promoted to the senior rankings or even Sean Power and Paul Flynn mite assist Derek and Co

Wexford to make the all Ireland final if they beat us I think ( and draw Tipperary in the semi)

seananigans · 22-07-2016 11:23pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Feeling the nerves now. Can see big changes if we are too lose Sunday in the senior setup

If the under 21s win Munster and get to an all Ireland final than that management team could be promoted to the senior rankings or even Sean Power and Paul Flynn mite assist Derek and Co

Wexford to make the all Ireland final if they beat us I think ( and draw Tipperary in the semi)

wexford to beat kk in what universe

since they are more familiar in leinster they dont have the same fear of kk but neither do they have the ability

our men have no silverware from 3 finals and tey will want to correct that, even if we get to kk and fail in the ai bid that is still progress nothing else is

dishdash · 22-07-2016 11:30pm

Deskjockey wrote: »

Hurling will never die. It's the best game in the world. I don't think you can compare a sport that had a max crowd ever of 2,000 (I'm guessing) with a sport that can attract crowds of 30k to 80k consistently every year. Living in Kilkenny it will never die.

Hmmmm
It's a great game indeed. I wish I could believe you but the facts speak for themselves.
In terms of handball, it was never about the crowds, but rather the numbers participating.
You seem to forget that hurling needs a critical mass of counties playing it in numbers for the game to survive.
Indeed you make the point that the game will never die in Kilkenny. It may not, indeed, but wouldn't it be sad if when I'm old, I will have to travel to Kilkenny to see the game of hurling played, as it has died out everywhere else???

JeffKenna · 22-07-2016 11:51pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wexford to make the all Ireland final if they beat us I think ( and draw Tipperary in the semi)

Think you've wondered into a parallel universe there.

Deise_2012 · 23-07-2016 12:53am

PTH is the biggest spoofer on boards, pay no attention to him. He has Wexford to win by 6, he's taking the piss really

Deskjockey · 23-07-2016 1:03am

dishdash wrote: »

Hmmmm
It's a great game indeed. I wish I could believe you but the facts speak for themselves.
In terms of handball, it was never about the crowds, but rather the numbers participating.
You seem to forget that hurling needs a critical mass of counties playing it in numbers for the game to survive.
Indeed you make the point that the game will never die in Kilkenny. It may not, indeed, but wouldn't it be sad if when I'm old, I will have to travel to Kilkenny to see the game of hurling played, as it has died out everywhere else???

Compare the health of counties compared to say 40 years ago. 1976

Kilkenny- stronger/same
Tipp - stronger (they were mid famine in 76)
Cork weaker. They will be back though once they get their house in order
Dublin stronger-
Waterford stronger - kids have heroes to look up to
Limerick stronger ( great underage work going on)
Wexford weaker (they reached a few all ireland finals back then)
Clare - stronger
Offaly - same
Galway - stronger
Laois - weaker /same
Antrim same (poor)

Agree the counties that never played it are still the same but I think it's nonsense to say the game is dying.

thesultan · 23-07-2016 8:52am

dishdash wrote:

It was a well written piece, where the author -fair play to him/her- put his points across in a cogent way. One could disagree with everything that was said-but admire the way it was written Too often I see written rants on forums, with the use of expletives and misuse of grammer in a clumsy effort to communicate a point of view. That wasn't the case with this post- and hence my praise for it.

Limerick are weaker. They were all ireland champions three years previous.

cornerboy · 23-07-2016 8:55am

seananigans wrote: »

play a different team dent their confidence , pleay the same show them you believe in them and ask them to redeem themselves best team we have why wouldnt we play them ?

Do you think that getting a 21 point beating in a game that was supposed to be 50 / 50 doesnt dent your confidence. If that is our best team, then either play them in a conventional setup or if you are going to play 3-4 forwards then they must be able to cover ground. The system has been rumbled and if Wexford make a good start there will be a lot of our lads questioning things in their heads. I would like to think we will win but things better go our way early on.

deiseach · 23-07-2016 9:31am

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Analogies with Jack Charlton. Ireland under Charlton actually won important knock out games.

Really? List them.

deiseach · 23-07-2016 11:04am

Cake Man wrote: »

Just out of curiosity to see if there is much of an advantage of being at home at U21 level (statistically speaking), I've considered all Munster U21 results going back as far as 2009, as per the Munster GAA results webpage.

In the 7 years, there have been 31 games played until now and as is the case with U21, there will always be a home/away team. I counted 17 games in which the home team won (55%) and 14 in which the away team won (45%). Some of these games were settled after extra time and counted as a home/away win.
4 of the 17 home victories and 3 of the 14 away victories were in the Munster final.

This would lead me to believe that home advantage isn't hugely significant and as can be seen, 3 of the last 7 Munster final were won by the away team - one of which included Clare beating us at home in 2009. I know 31 probably isn't a massive sample size but given that U21 is pure knockout, it limits the amount of games. Would still happily prefer to be at home in any case.

I had a look at our overall record at Under-21 level and the figures support the idea that there isn't much advantage to being at home, or not for Waterford anyway. We have won only 22 games out of 76 played in the competition. Of the 22 wins, the record is H8 A6 N(eutral)8 (I have included a win over Galway in 1966 as a neutral game despite not being able to find the date it was played or the venue - I got it from a list in the back of The Munster Story) . If you look at our home record, it's P29 W8 D2 L19. Is that much different from our record in games away from home? Nope, our away record is P27 W6 L21. The result on Wednesday isn't going to dramatically alter those figures. Of course, a huge Waterford crowd surely wouldn't do any harm, would it?

O Riain · 23-07-2016 2:05pm

deiseach wrote: »

Cake Man wrote: »

Just out of curiosity to see if there is much of an advantage of being at home at U21 level (statistically speaking), I've considered all Munster U21 results going back as far as 2009, as per the Munster GAA results webpage.

In the 7 years, there have been 31 games played until now and as is the case with U21, there will always be a home/away team. I counted 17 games in which the home team won (55%) and 14 in which the away team won (45%). Some of these games were settled after extra time and counted as a home/away win.
4 of the 17 home victories and 3 of the 14 away victories were in the Munster final.

This would lead me to believe that home advantage isn't hugely significant and as can be seen, 3 of the last 7 Munster final were won by the away team - one of which included Clare beating us at home in 2009. I know 31 probably isn't a massive sample size but given that U21 is pure knockout, it limits the amount of games. Would still happily prefer to be at home in any case.

I had a look at our overall record at Under-21 level and the figures support the idea that there isn't much advantage to being at home, or not for Waterford anyway. We have won only 22 games out of 76 played in the competition. Of the 22 wins, the record is H8 A6 N(eutral)8 (I have included a win over Galway in 1966 as a neutral game despite not being able to find the date it was played or the venue - I got it from a list in the back of The Munster Story) . If you look at our home record, it's P29 W8 D2 L19. Is that much different from our record in games away from home? Nope, our away record is P27 W6 L21. The result on Wednesday isn't going to dramatically alter those figures. Of course, a huge Waterford
crowd surely wouldn't do any harm, would it?

Any word on demand? Surely will be a sell out?

PTH2009 · 23-07-2016 4:50pm

O Riain wrote: »

Any word on demand? Surely will be a sell out?

Will be busy but won't be a sell out. Few factors

A lot of people don't support the under 21s like they would the senior team

It's on a weeknight

It's Live on TG4 and WLR

It's 3 days after the senior game vs Wexford and family's won't be able to afford 2 days out

O Riain · 23-07-2016 5:30pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

Any word on demand? Surely will be a sell out?

Will be busy but won't be a sell out. Few factors

A lot of people don't support the under 21s like they would the senior team

It's on a weeknight

It's Live on TG4 and WLR

It's 3 days after the senior game vs Wexford and family's won't be able to afford 2 days out

Surely given the fact that this team is hotly tipped to go all the way and the against clare means that you might attract the people who normally wouldn't go

hurler on de ditch · 23-07-2016 5:46pm

O Riain wrote: »

Surely given the fact that this team is hotly tipped to go all the way and the against clare means that you might attract the people who normally wouldn't go

Clare?

seananigans · 23-07-2016 6:02pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Clare?

and the result against clare ...

hurler on de ditch · 23-07-2016 6:54pm

seananigans wrote: »

and the result against clare ...

your'e only as good as your last game !

seananigans · 23-07-2016 8:32pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

your'e only as good as your last game !

tbh i dont even believe that youre only as good as your next game, the past is the past, expect a big backlash, wexford will be up for it, but expect them to fade waterford by between6 and 15 points if not more

DLS2THECORE · 23-07-2016 9:05pm

Lads, quick question. Does it matter what type terrace ticket I buy for under 21 Munster final? There are Northern, Eastern and Western tickets available for the match on Weds night? What is the bank directly across from the stand known as? I presumed anyone could walk around from behind the goals to the bank on the dressing room side? Thanks

HatchetMan7 · 23-07-2016 9:08pm

Wexford will probably pump alot of ball straight into Macdonald and with the likes of Chin and McGovern in the half forward line making runs from deep looking for breaks or offloads like Tipp did. We must get our match ups right when contesting these high balls. Wexford would see our full back line as our weakest line after looking at the Munster final and should look for goals early. If Waterford defence can dominate in the air id be confidant that we should win but if we struggle under the high ball especially in defence i don't like our chances.

PTH2009 · 23-07-2016 9:19pm

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Wexford will probably pump alot of ball straight into Macdonald and with the likes of Chin and McGovern in the half forward line making runs from deep looking for breaks or offloads like Tipp did. We must get our match ups right when contesting these high balls. Wexford would see our full back line as our weakest line after looking at the Munster final and should look for goals early. If Waterford defence can dominate in the air id be confidant that we should win but if we struggle under the high ball especially in defence i don't like our chances.

A huge team effort is needed tomorrow. If we do concede an early goal our heads must not drop, a similar performance to the NHL semi vs Limerick would be good as a lot of doubts were answered that day by us (we don't score goals, ultra defensive etc)

A lot of our fans talking about the kilkenny semi already, starting to piss me off, we saw how cocky the Limerick u21s, Cork seniors were this year and that didn't end well for them

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1