Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

1104105107109110123

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    That would be so impractical. Just call it Phibsboro & Glasnevin, make it do what it says on the tin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it would be in keeping with Dublin transport tradition to name a station after a building that was no longer there - half the bus stops in the city are named after some obsolete business or other. They should name the Swords stop "Smyths Toy Superstore"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Still fuming that they eventually renamed bus stop 3966 from O'Briens Supermarket to Maynooth SC ~25 years after it changed name :p

    I don't know if Santry Retail Park (1627) ever existed



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    I'd be fine with Brian Boru Station or Cross Guns Station tbh. It adds a little touch of personality/ whimsy to the network. I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to anyone navigating really, locals know what and where it is, and anyone else just plugs their destination into Google Maps and it tells them to disembark at Brian Boru Station, that's fine, it's just as meaningful to them as the word "Glasnevin"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Brian Boru seems fine, after all we have Pearse, Heuston and Connolly stations in the city which clearly aren't geographical names.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭danfrancisco83


    So long as they don't allow estate agents name the stations we should be fine.

    Glasnevin

    Glasnevin North

    Glasnevin North North

    Glasnevin North North North



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, Limerick Junction is not in Limerick, or even County Limerick.

    I think Na Fianna GAA club missed a trick by objecting to their site being used for Metrolink instead of agreeing but the station was to be called Na Fianna. The disruption would be temporary but the name would be permanent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    How customer-friendly is Glasnevin (Brian Boru !) planned to be?

    I was just thinking that people have talked about going from say Sligo to the airport with a quick 5 minute change/wait in Glasnevin. Which is great because it doesn't really matter when your Sligo-Dublin train turns up, there'll be a metro along imminently.

    But the reverse journey is potentially more complicated - your wait in Glasnevin for the next Sligo train could be an hour or more. So is there plans for restaurants/bars/toilets, comfortable seating areas etc. Or is it just a bog-standard transfer station? For a station which is going to be such an important part of the network it probably deserves to be done properly, but there might be space restrictions?



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    There's going to be a commercial element there, in the station itself, but I wouldn't be expecting luxury at all at platform level.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    Well there's already a massive pub (The Bernard Shaw) directly across the road, with connected Eatyard full of foodtrucks. Next door to TBS is a row of eateries - a pastry café, a great Greek gyros place, sushi, pizza ,a Chinese.. I reckon you'll be sorted. If you wanted to do your shopping there's a Tesco 1 min walk away.

    The Metrolink stations themselves are not designed for people to hang around in, they're not rural train stations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    they're not rural train stations.

    What rural stations have you been in? Any Ive been in were practically designed against people spending time in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Yes, clearly it's a decent well-serviced area.

    I guess I just find people are sometimes wary of going outside the station building - they want to keep an eye on the message boards, hear platform announcements, may not want to cart luggage onto the street etc. It's why train stations (UK/Europe) tend to have multiple eat/drink facilities onsite, despite there also being such places just outside the station building as well.

    I take your point about the Metrolink stations not being designed that way - Glasnevin just seems a somewhat logical exception.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I'd say that most of them are up on the websites, not just the Metrolinkro site, but the previous ones too, from the consultations.

    They're probably just on the RO site though, there's plenty of docs up there with updated visuals, and more keep being added. Just today, they've added a lovely doc looking at the design and architecture of the Mater and SSG stops.

    PowerPoint Presentation (metrolink.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo



    yeah, fair point...

    It's just not really what I think of as a Metro station. Obviously there's no real reason it couldn't have incorporated more retail, but the station designs are quite minimal to keep costs and impact down. As someone else said, there'll be some modest pass-through retail in there, so nothing stopping people getting a bad vending-machine coffee and sitting on a hard bench for an hour if they're happier that way!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    if people are coming from the airport, they should be able to see that there's going to be a long wait for their train and maybe wait around the airport until closer to the time. There'll be a metro every 5 mins at least and it's only 10 mins from there to Glasnevin Cross Guns Brian Boru.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Metrolink will be so frequent that I think the wariness about when the next train will be will just not be there



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Consonata


    You can be sure The Bernard Shaw will be making a small fortune.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    True, though I think folks are talking about the opposite direction, waiting for a train.

    Having said that, I don't think there will be much of a wait for a DART+ train either. They will be like every 10 minutes. It is only the less frequent trains like the Sligo train that might be an issue. Certainly wouldn't impact most people.

    True, though if it was a long wait, I'd think I'd rather spend the time in Glasnevin, it is a lovely area and lots of nice food places there. Much nicer then spending your time in any airport or train station IMO. Just keep an eye on the realtime app.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I look forward to the day when this thread will be filled with, "how long will i be waiting for my connection at -insert station name- be?"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Why would there be any of those things? The station will only serve train routes with a sub 10 minute frequency and metro trams with a 3 minute frequency and city bus routes with sub 5 minute frequency, perhaps some long distance buses will stop there. The only possible intercity service is Dublin-Sligo every 2 hours and there's presently no plans to stop sligo trains there although it makes sense.

    On the topic of long distance buses I think metrolink may well rip the arse out that market considering the amount of intercity bus services that serve Dublin city and Airport. Passengers would be much quicker changing at the airport than any coach service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Consonata


    I'm assuming that they will stop Sligo trains in Glasnevin instead of what's currently done in Drumcondra right? Hopefully not both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,924 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    We have not even got close to planning for stopping patterns - that won't happen for quite some time.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    On the topic of long distance buses I think metrolink may well rip the arse out that market considering the amount of intercity bus services that serve Dublin city and Airport. Passengers would be much quicker changing at the airport than any coach service.

    Airports around the world have both coaches, metros, buses and trains.

    I've often taken coaches to the Airport in cities that also had Metro's serving the same route. There is just something about being able to stick your bag under the bus, take your seat and have a relaxing ride to the airport versus trying to squeeze onto an overcrowded Metro with your bags.

    It will certainly be a challenge for them, but I'd say they will be relatively okay. I'd say it will be a bigger challenge for the 16/A2 and Airlink if it returns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I think they more mean the intercity routes than Aircoachs 700 and Dublin Express. It would probably make more sense for these to just terminate at the Airport and passengers to connect to the Metro as opposed to serving the city centre. Especially if a purpose built coach station is built at the airport.

    The 16/A2 would still serve areas unserved by the Metro and possibly could be rerouted to avoid duplicating the Metro route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    There seems to be a cafe planned at least. The drawings also note a "community area/space" on two levels. It's not clear what that means exactly, but they did say in their presentation that there would be a "Generous south facing public plaza opening onto the Royal Canal Greenway activated with commercial and community amenity opportunity."




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I believe that's where they want a kinda museum space, probably where they'd include the signage from Hedigan's, history of the area and railroad, that kind of thing. A smart idea to have included from the start, means that a lot of the foreseeable complaints about this could be headed off.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    With the OPW withdrawing from today and being rescheduled to next Tuesday, there's no hearings scheduled for today. Next day is actually next Tuesday, so I guess we'll just have to get into a pedantic argument about some meaningless aspect of Metrolink.

    I think that the seats provided in the stations don't met the standard required, and there's been no environmental impact assessment done to include the methane emissions from passengers that ate too much Mexican beans in Eatyard, so the entire project should be cancelled and sent back to the drawing board.

    That's a good start.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I was talking about both the intercity coach services as well as the basic Dublin City to airport services.

    I don’t see Metrolink on its own changing much in terms of IC. You have either the option of getting a coach direct from Cork all the way to the door of Dublin airport versus getting the train towards Hueston, have to drag your bags off the train and onto a potentially crowded dart, then drag them off again and onto a crowded Metrolink. And all for a similar journey time. I’d see many people continuing to choose the coach option as it would be less trouble and probably cheaper.

    Now if you mean once they electrify the Cork line and implement 200km/h running, yeah, then with a faster journey time, it would be much more of a challenge.

    But when 200km/h running happens, I fully expect Irish Rail to increase their fares greatly! The current attractive web fares will go away and you will be back to paying probably €80+ tickets. The only reason IR have cheap tickets at the moment is because they have to directly compete with the coaches as they have a similar or slower journey time. But if IR have a much faster journey time then they can differentiate based on that and charge higher fares. The coaches would likely to continue and survive as the cheap option.

    I agree though that we are likely to see more Eireagle type services, services that skip Dublin City and go direct to the airport. The direct Cork to Dublin Airport service takes just 3 hours.

    Don’t get me wrong, I do think it will force changes in services, maybe even consolidation of companies (already happening GoBus/Citylink), but I don’t believe it would wipe them out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    Trinity drop objection

    'Trinity College Dublin has dropped its opposition to Metrolink after coming to an agreement on how to mitigate the effects of the line travelling under its campus.

    The Business Post previously reported   that Trinity had objected to the proposed route, citing the potential disruption to “sensitive” scientific equipment on its campus, such as MRI machines.

    A spokeswoman for the university confirmed that it had decided to drop its opposition to the route.

    “Trinity College Dublin supports the Metrolink project. It has reached an agreement with Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) on the issues raised in its recent submission in respect of the Draft Railway Order Application made by TII." '


    https://www.businesspost.ie/news/trinity-college-drops-opposition-to-metrolink-after-agreement-with-transport-infrastructure-irelan/



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    If Sligo services are stopping at Glasnevin/Boru Station there's going to have to be at least some improved connection to the more major intercity trains, at the very least Cork and Galway intercities should stop at Hazelhatch to allow people get the DART to Glasnevin and change to metro, the alternative being a treck from heuston to heuston west or wedge yourself onto red line luas all the way to OCS/Abbey, treck up to OCS metro and out that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    It's amazing how insensitive MRI machines become in the presence of some brown envelopes.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Absolutely I'm assuming that the Cork/Galway IC's will stop at one of the DART+ stations before Heuston. It would be a crazy missed opportunity if it doesn't.

    But I don't think it would kill IC coaches. Galway Eireagle service, Galway direct to Dublin Airport in 2 hours, versus 2h20 minutes to 2h40 minutes just for the train, then a DART and then a Metrolink. I think the coach services will continue to be fine, it is when 200km/h running + electrification + DU come that there might be real competition.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    That was the biggest, kinda weird question that came out of Module 1, as there was absolutely no news at all on the day that they were to speak. Presumably they cancelled because they were deep in negotiation on how many brown envelopes what kind of mitigation should be used, but it's great to get proper confirmation that they now support it.

    Again, extremely impressive of TII to solve as many issues as possible before/at these hearings. It actually has a bearing on how ABP will view the rest of the submissions too, as TII is clearly open to negotiation and consultation. ABP would take a very dim view of it of TII basically came out and said "this is our plan, and that's it."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I live in Galway but travel to Dublin for work. I nearly always use the bus. Usually the multistop, but the direct is streets ahead of the train. The multistop takes a bit longer but is much more comfortable. And both involve much less walking, nice when bringing bags.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    200kmh on the Dublin-Cork route and some Double track on Dublin-Galway would likely clean up a lot of the private coach operators unless they can offer hyper discount tickets like mega bus in the UK, which does £5 intercity trips, would appeal more to students and low income though, most people are happy enough paying 30ish for trains especially if they're very quick.

    Dublins bus lanes are congested with coaches in many areas because of the crap long distance rail options, there should be more room on the streets for city buses. Which we continue to depend on for the vast majority of commutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,735 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Never realised mount joy prison takes up so much prime real estate!

    Could fit a lot of apartments there.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    That is the thing though, once IR get 200km/h going and have a speed advantage you can kiss good bye to the 30ish rail fares. They will return to the days of charging €80 or more for rail tickets. That will leave plenty of space for more affordable coach services.

    Yes, me too on the Cork to Dublin route. Much prefer the couch, much more relaxing IME.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Fares are set by the NTA, they'd have no reason to increase them especially with greater funding available and increased patronage.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The NTA sets the maximum fares, which are much higher then the 30ish promo fares you are talking about. The web promo fares are set by IR and they can stop them and charge the maximum NTA fares at any time.

    Once they have a significant speed advantage over the coaches, I fully expect most of those web fares to disappear and we will be back paying the maximum fares.

    Keep in mind that the only reason IR dropped their fares in the first place was because of the competition from the coach companies. Once they have an advantage over them, they will take the opportunity to increase prices. This is just business 101.

    I'd love to be wrong, Cork to Dublin in 1h30 for €30 would be amazing, but unfortunately I highly doubt it.

    Anyway, this is all over a decade away, if that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    At least some Journalists seem to have an interest in the actual goings on of Metrolink, rather than hopping on silly soundbites from the Oral Hearing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I can't find the source now, but I believe there's also goverment support in those cheap rail fare offers, same as there is for the recent Leap fare cut for bus.

    I could see fares rising maybe 10-15% as the product improvement would support that, but any higher and you'd just be encouraging people to drive instead, which is directly contrary to our CO2 reduction obligations.

    Also, higher-speed services are very likely to increase both ridership and overall capacity (faster trains mean more spare time on each track segment, so more services can be run). This would allow IÉ to make as much as, or more than, they do now without needing to raise prices: the costs of running a train has nothing to do with how many seats are occupied.

    Where the coach operators would still be competitive is on services directly to Dublon Airport, and to be honest, once Metrolink is online, I think most of the airport bus operators will end up terminating their services at the Airport, handing their City passengers over to the Metro, rather than incurring the hassle and delays of going in to the city centre themselves.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    On the other hand, actually getting to 200km/h will require a new fleet of trains, electrification and significant upgrades to the lines. We are likely talking about well north of a Billion euro. The government might decide to claw back some of that cost with increased fares.

    The trains are already relatively full, if it wasn't for the coaches, they would be back to being rammed with people standing between the toilets like I remember 20 years ago. 20 years ago, when IR had no real competition, they were perfectly happy to charge you €80 without even a guarantee of a seat!

    If the trains are already almost full and faster speeds leads to even more demand of course they are going to push up prices. It is business 101.

    I think folks forget that will IR are a semi state, they are still run like a normal commercial business, their board require them to strive to make a profit, etc. Prices are relatively good at the moment, but that is only because of the strong competition they currently face, once they face less direct competition, prices will only go one way.

    Again I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Honestly would doubt this would fly, You'd likely see NTA intervening to reduce the fares depending on whom is in government. It wouldn't be politically acceptable to invest literally bn's into Intercity travel for fares to double as a result.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Again, the NTA already set the maximum fare, it is higher than the web fares, the web fares will disappear.

    Sure, maybe they will keep around a small number of web fares to say you can get a cheap ticket if you book early, but the number of such cheap tickets will shrink to a tiny number, say just 10 seats per train or whatever, with the majority of seats being the max fare.

    This is how supply and demand works. If demand goes up because faster trains you can guarantee prices will go up too.

    Im really surprised so many people don’t get this. This is why IR are pushing so hard to get 200km/h service, with faster speeds, they face less direct competition, more demand and thus can jack up prices. This is simple economics and how business works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 467 ✭✭Bodan


    It will primarily be up to the government of the day. Like today, across all forms of public transport, they can implement and force cheap fares.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,924 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    What has any of this to do with Metrolink?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Exactly. The answer is nothing.

    Please stick to subject.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    On the topic of IC interchanging at Glasnevin: there was an opportunity for those same services to interchange at Broombridge after the Luas was extended there but that never happened. Ultimately, Sligo passengers can quite easily hop on Metro from Tara without adding much to their journey times, though an interchange at Glasnevin would be preferable.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement