Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852097#Comment_119852097

Indeed, I think people are missing that one of the guiding design principles of this entire project is to make it as simple as possible to construct. One of the main reasons they went with one large bore tunnel is to avoid the mining required to create cross tunnels. They choose to demolish a huge apartment block at Tara Street rather than mine out underneath.

There's essentially no mining in this project whatsoever, with the notable exception of the two ends of the tunnel, where an emergency tunnel is needed in lieu of a more expensive intervention shaft.

Not every thing on this project is ideal, and I've complained in here myself on them, but the lack of a more southern entrance on the O'Connell street station is not one that I'd be overly bothered by.

Sam Russell

The problem with talk hat it could be better if <insert better solution > is that it is the perfect being the enemy of the good.

It is good enough, and if it will be built as designed, it will be a huge success. It will spark criticism that it never made it to Sandyford, but it might now, so it might.

Get the boring bit over - put the machines in the ground.

cgcsb

I'm laughing at this today because I've just remembered how metrolink came to replace Metro North. Its not that metrolink is a better design it's that the design was 'optimised' to reduce the €2bn cost to...latest estimate €9bn.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856072#Comment_119856072

While that's funny, the idea that they could have done Metro North, even at the height of the recession, for 2 Billion was and is ridiculous. The O'Connell bridge stop on its own would have taken up half that, and we'd never look at another major infrastructure project again. Would have made the Children's Hospital look like an extremely well run and costed project.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856468#Comment_119856468

Perhaps there would have been over runs but in 2009 contractors really were ten a penny and there was construction deflation, that caused many motorway projects to come in under budget at that time. The point is, the action was taken to penny pinch and official costs have more than quadrupled as a result. What's interesting is construction started on many major motorway projects in 2008 and 2009 obviously the state had spending priorities, roads and not PT.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856468#Comment_119856468

It still would have cost less than Metrolink. Delay, dithering and inflation have seen to that.

Pete_Cavan

Comparing costs from different eras is pointless, the cost of a house in the 80s sounds like nothing now but those prices were unaffordable for many people at the time. The state is in a better position to pay for Metrolink now than it was to pay for Metro North then.

And MetroLink is a superior project, we've been over this before.

marno21

Metro North had very poor integration with the rest of the network. It lost a lot of its value without DART Underground as it has ZERO intergration with the Kildare line, no integration with DART, and poor integration with the Maynooth line. It also didn't integrate properly with the higher capacity stretch of the Luas Green Line south of Charlemont.

It was one of those projects that didn't undergo the rigorous analysis in the late 2000s that, if built would be nice to have, but could have been refined more as MetroLink is.

strassenwo!f

I think we all understand that moving the metro stop closer to the Red LUAS would stretch out the already very long distances between the Berkeley Road stop and the OCS stop.

It's poor, and everybody knows it's a poor connection and it's poor planning.

But can we please change the metrolink video? It is not an 'easy' connection to/from the Red Line.

I doubt if even the master of positive 'spin', the UK's Mr Alistair Campbell, would have ever had the neck to call this 'an easy connection to the Red Line.'

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856988#Comment_119856988

It integrated with Luas in town at with Maynooth line at Drumcondra ...what else does it need to do to offer 'better integration'?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860973#Comment_119860973

Maynooth line trains won’t necessarily all serve Drumcondra in the future. Most will go direct to Spencer Dock via the MGWR route along the canal. Kildare line trains will use the GSR route via Drumcondra.

Serving Glasnevin allows a direct interchange between Metrolink and with all services on both the Maynooth and Hazelhatch DART lines.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861287#Comment_119861287

I found this yesterday in the Dart+ RO. Obviously subject to change but it's a good guide. Most new capacity will be given to Spencer Dock and only 2 additional trains per hour from West into Connolly.

7 trains per hour per direction from Spencer Dock to Glasnevin via the canal.

4 tphpd from Spencer Dock to Glasnevin via Drumcondra.

8 tphpd from Connolly to Glasnevin via Drumcondra.

This would need to include Sligo Intercity, Longford commuter, Newbridge / Portlaois commuter via PT Tunnel.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860973#Comment_119860973

The feckin DART line!

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861887#Comment_119861887

At Drumcondra...

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862350#Comment_119862350

Ah come on AngryLips, you can't look at the Metro North project and think, "yeah, let's spend several billion on a brand new metro line, and also, we're going to go out of our way to avoid the existing rail infrastructure in the City Centre". That's ridiculous, and even the planners knew it, that's why they always talked about Dart Underground (another project whose costings were on the extremely optimistic side) coming along and fixing the problem.

I get it, I'd actually like to be sitting on a Metro North train today rather than sitting here discussing yet another as yet unbuilt Metro line, but pretending that Metro North wasn't riddled with problems is a bit far fetched.

Sam Russell

Mod: Metro North is no more, and it is off topic. Please keep to the topic.

If you wish to discuss the history of now defunct Metro North, and the historic value it would have given us, then open a new thread.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861808#Comment_119861808

I'm a bit surprised the frequency from Clonsilla-Leixlip-Maynooth will only be 2 tpdpd. That's only a train every 30 mins. That's what it's like now, but I expected there'd be an increase at project completion. 30 min waits is poor for a "DART".

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867051#Comment_119867051

Isn't it zone E? 8tpdph?

Zone F isn't in the second table, just FYI, maybe that's it.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856072#Comment_119856072

I cant wait to see what happens when metrolink is cancelled. If a recession doesnt give them the out to cancel it, they can cancel it on the emissions the tunnel will generate during construction, concrete being so environmentally unsustainable... the earth worms that will be harmed during construction... Please feel free to chime in with other plausible reasons they will give. But at least like you say, they can scrap the nine billion euro project, for a more costly 15 billion one, ten years from metrolink cancellation...

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867165#Comment_119867165

Yeah that's correct actually. The table was cut between 2 pages.

Bringing this back to Metro - it's good that Dart+ is being rolled out first. I just hope that Glasnevin station is developed at the very early stage of Metro, as the Dart+ RO does not include Glasnevin.

Zone F:

jd

Apparently a document was left out of what was submitted for Railway Order, so another delay..

prunudo

I know i's need to be dotted and t's crossed, but after all the other delays, these sort of issues are disappointing to say the least.

Peregrine

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dublinman1990

Ah damn. What a pity.

How many pages does this traffic management plan for SSG contain to be included in the RO? You could probably expect it to be a very large amount of pages to be missing from the application given the size and scale of the project.

The station is surrounded by a very big public park and a very busy public road with plenty of bus routes, cars and other important vehicles that travel over the station as well once it gets the go ahead to be constructed with the TBM.

I would imagine there are crucial traffic plans included for the other stations as well which are already in the RO.

I would say that the RO it would be critically important to have a traffic management plan for the Airport included in it as well once the project gets the go ahead for planning from ABP but not SSG. It is very frustrating to know that one plan is left out for the other.

It is disappointing to read this morning that the SSG traffic plan is not included yet. It really is a bit annoying to not include it for the initial application. It's a lesson learned that shouldn't happen again IMV.

orangerhyme

Do people think Ballymun area will gentrify a bit and house prices rise once Metro project starts and is definitely happening?

Or does it simply have too many problems to ever really gentrify?

I think the Metro will be something of a catalyst but might just end up very unequal with yuppies and students in apartments but not really integrated with the community

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918797#Comment_119918797

From my reading of it, that document was prepared and is included in the application, it just wasn't sent in. I'm sure it is listed in documents as part of the application, which is likely how this came to light. It seems they only have to make the document available for public display and the submissions deadline has been extended as it also has to be available for public submissions for the prescribed length of time. There is no suggestion in any of that that affects the RO in any other way, I'm sure ABP will be working away on it as they would have otherwise been. If anything, it gives them more time to focus on the actual application before having to trawl through the public submissions.

jumpinsheep

It is also published in the Metrolink's website, News section:

https://www.metrolink.ie/en/news/latest-news/extension-to-the-consultation-period-submission-deadline-to-january-16th/

This is ridiculous, one would expect better management of a project this scale and cost. We shall see what will happen next...

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119919726#Comment_119919726

It's just one document from 100s. It's frustrating and unfortunate but not a major issue. Compare this to the Galway City Ringroad which "didn't realize" a new climate plan was just released!

This is nothing compared to that mega blunder farce.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119919857#Comment_119919857

Yeah, honestly, who here hasn't forgotten to attach or upload a document at some stage or another? Finally, the Railway Order process feels relatable to me 🤣🤣🤣

brianc89

Just to give a flavour of what Dublin Metro could be, I travelled on Milan's newest Metro line today (Blue M4).

Driverless trains and front row seats. Very cool. Also lovely landscaping completed at surface level (Milano Dateo). The Dateo station includes an almost 300m underground walkway which connects to an underground Trainline there.

I couldn't upload a short video clip so here is a snap.