Cork developments

who_me · 04-05-2018 5:37pm

There's a planning notice up for a new hospital/clinic development, in the site between the Victoria Hospital and the Breastcheck clinic on Anglesea St. I've checked the planning site but can't find any details.

AwaitYourReply · 05-05-2018 12:00am

Anyone know much about Penney's (aka Primark) future intentions regarding it's Patrick's Street Munster Arcade unit as I understand that the owners of Penney's had been buying up surrounding properties in the same block in recent years. I know of one retail unit on the Oliver Plunkett Street side having transferred to another unit away from the Penney's block on Oliver Plunkett Street. There was also talk of possible changes in the former Egan's building on Patrick Street which houses Jack+Jones which would also be in the same block as Penney's which ends just before the former Victoria Hotel premises which is also to be re-developed.

AwaitYourReply · 05-05-2018 12:13am

Speaking of changes to retail in Cork City Centre, the revamp of Merchant's Quay Shopping Centre must be almost upon us as there had been talk of the main entrance moving down so that it is just above Marks & Spencers on Patrick's Street. Changes to internal design layout and less smaller units will eventually make way for larger units in the centre. The centre has seemed quiet for a long time and is probably based on a whole host of factors. Opera Lane and the revamped Dunnes Stores on Patrick Street along with the changes following Roches Stores exit which would later see the supermarket cut off after Debenhams took over the former Roches Stores department store lease. One thing that may be a big boost to Merchant's Quay will be the new Harley pedestrian footbridge expected to open around May 2019.

kub · 05-05-2018 1:02pm

What makes me wonder is where are all the required construction workers going to appear from?

marno21 · 05-05-2018 10:59pm

Great thread snotboogie, fantastic updates. Between Navigation Square & HQ that's space for 8,000 extra employees! Cork really is on the way up.

This massive city centre office expansion badly needs a good amount of city centre accomodation also. Plenty of space on both banks of the river for this of course.

marno21 · 05-05-2018 11:08pm

Just a couple of updates on the roads side:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange: This is currently at the tender stage now with some time, a tender award is expected in Q2 2018. The project is expected to fully start in Q1 2019 as a comprehensive traffic management plan will have to be put in place by the contractor. Some site clearance and early works are ongoing at present, and some preliminary work is expected to go ahead in Q4 2018.

N22 Macroom to Ballyvourney (bypasses Macroom and Ballyvourney): The tender process for this started last week, with candidates invited to apply to the prequalification stage until early June. After this, candidates will be invited to tender in July 2018 when the official tender process will begin. The project is currently programmed to begin in Q1 2020 but there is scope for acceleration of this

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy: This project was submitted to An Bord Pleanala in May 2017 and a decision was expected to be published in December 2017, which was delayed to April 2018 and still hasn't been released. The project has been held up by a small but vocal group of local individuals objecting on a range of fronts primarily environmental and related to noise and pollution, in addition to a belief that TII & Cork County Council are trying to create congestion in Rochestown and Douglas. The decision is expected ASAP however an appeal is expected if it is approved. A big "watch this space"...

M20 Cork-Limerick: This tender process for the design and planning of this scheme went out last week with route selection expected to begin in September 2018. The project, if approved, will likely start around 2022 and open in 2025/2026.

M40 Cork North Ring Road: This project was included in the National Development Plan and will be reactivated if there is a requirement to connect the M20 to the motorway network around Cork. The road remains a priority for people on the Northside (including Apple) but not to central Government.

N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton: This project is included in the National Development Plan having been suspended in 2011. The project will be sent for appraisal in 2018 and if it merits will be prioritised for delivery. The scheme was at route selection stage when suspended.

The remainder of schemes planned for Cork (N22 Macroom-Ovens, N25 Midleton-Youghal, N40 North Ring West, N71 dualling) all remain suspended.

blindsider · 07-05-2018 10:53am

From today's IT:

Ikea said this week there was no truth in reports it had bought land in Carrickmines. The furniture retailer added that it is always interested in expanding its Irish business, but was focused on plans for Cork, where it is said to be interested in building on a site in Carrigtwohill, to the east of the city.

I wonder how much this is impacted by Dunkettle - 3 yr project starting Q1 2019?

marno21 · 07-05-2018 11:54am

blindsider wrote: »

From today's IT:

Ikea said this week there was no truth in reports it had bought land in Carrickmines. The furniture retailer added that it is always interested in expanding its Irish business, but was focused on plans for Cork, where it is said to be interested in building on a site in Carrigtwohill, to the east of the city.

I wonder how much this is impacted by Dunkettle - 3 yr project starting Q1 2019?

More than likely impacted by the N25 Carrigtwohill-Middleton scheme which Cork County Council have indicated is a priority.

There is a dual carriageway along there but access too and from it is an issue

kub · 07-05-2018 7:13pm

marno21 wrote: »

More than likely impacted by the N25 Carrigtwohill-Middleton scheme which Cork County Council have indicated is a priority.

There is a dual carriageway along there but access too and from it is an issue

What is the procedure here, do Cork County Council make noises to NRA / TII to upgrade the N 25?

marno21 · 08-05-2018 12:09am

kub wrote: »

What is the procedure here, do Cork County Council make noises to NRA / TII to upgrade the N 25?

Under the 2016-2022 Capital Investment Plan, which was reviewed in mid 2017, local authorities and semi state companies made submissions on their projects and what they had prioritised for funding. Cork County Council stated within this document that having the N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton scheme at planning stage by 2021 was a priority. From the TII side, TII applied to the same process to have planning restarted on 13 projects due to the lack of pipeline national projects active at the minute to be progressed around 2022 when the current group of projects (including Dunkettle + Macroom) are complete. The N25 scheme was one of these and successfully reactivated.

GavRedKing · 08-05-2018 10:01am

The M28 is something that should be a huge priority, I know theres opposition to it but given the volume at which Carrigaline is expanding and how vital the deep port at Ringaskiddy is, a motorway network is badly needed, IMO.

marno21 · 08-05-2018 2:58pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

The M28 is something that should be a huge priority, I know theres opposition to it but given the volume at which Carrigaline is expanding and how vital the deep port at Ringaskiddy is, a motorway network is badly needed, IMO.

In addition to the huge employment out there in Ringaskiddy and surrounds, one of the great modern success stories in Cork. Expansion is difficult without the M28 thanks to the massive bottleneck at Carrs Hill and the general state of the road.

JupiterKid · 09-05-2018 8:05am

I presume the N25 Carrigtwohill to Middleton scheme is to rebuild and upgrade a section of dual carriageway that was built almost 50 years ago - making it, along with the N8 Tivoli DC, among the very first stretches of DC in Cork.

The M28 and M20 are an absolute priority and are a huge backlog. These should have been in place by several years already.

marno21 · 09-05-2018 8:12am

JupiterKid wrote: »

I presume the N25 Carrigtwohill to Middleton scheme is to rebuild and upgrade a section of dual carriageway that was built almost 50 years ago - making it, along with the N8 Tivoli DC, among the very first stretches of DC in Cork.

The M28 and M20 are an absolute priority and are a huge backlog. These should have been in place by several years already.

The N25 scheme is indeed a rebuild with access removal and a parallel access road, in addition to a grade separate junction. Very beneficial scheme with a small outlay

Agreed on the M20 and M28. N28 route was selected in 2004 remember

opus · 10-05-2018 4:26pm

See mention of this north docks site again in today's Examiner.

Meanwhile, sources suggest that a major new Cork north quays office development site, between the city core and Kent Station/BAM/Clarendon Properties’ Horgans Quay development/HQ and St Patricks Quay, most likely close by Penrose Quay, is set for an off-market acquisition and planning application for offices, in two or more blocks, being acquired by a Cork-based developer.

TheChizler · 10-05-2018 4:42pm

opus wrote: »

See mention of this north docks site again in today's Examiner.

I can't picture what this is, I thought the Horgan's Quay development and the existing Penrose Quay buildings were across the road from one another, what other space is there? Unless they're planning on demolishing the Union Chandlery etc?

who_me · 10-05-2018 4:52pm

TheChizler wrote: »

I can't picture what this is, I thought the Horgan's Quay development and the existing Penrose Quay buildings were across the road from one another, what other space is there? Unless they're planning on demolishing the Union Chandlery etc?

I guess it's the block between Boru St. and the existing Penrose Wharf buildings. That's between the 'city core' and Horgan's Quay. There's a nice stone/brick facade on the river side, but other than that it's mostly just a warehouse used for parking.

snotboogie · 10-05-2018 4:54pm

opus wrote: »

See mention of this north docks site again in today's Examiner.

Meanwhile, sources suggest that a major new Cork north quays office development site, between the city core and Kent Station/BAM/Clarendon Properties’ Horgans Quay development/HQ and St Patricks Quay, most likely close by Penrose Quay, is set for an off-market acquisition and planning application for offices, in two or more blocks, being acquired by a Cork-based developer.

JCD? OCP?

TheChizler · 10-05-2018 4:55pm

who_me wrote: »

I guess it's the block between Boru St. and the existing Penrose Wharf buildings. That's between the 'city core' and Horgan's Quay. There's a nice stone/brick facade on the river side, but other than that it's mostly just a warehouse used for parking.

You could be right. As long as they keep the passage the old railway line cut out between the who buildings I'm happy, I'm quite fond of that.

marno21 · 10-05-2018 8:49pm

Interesting article from the Examiner about Cork's docklands vs Dublin's docklands, including a photo of the "development" Dublin has done with its Docklands. By God have they made an absolute hames of it. No standout buildings and very low density. Absoutely fantastic to see the level of ambition Cork has in comparison

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/docks-tell-a-tale-of-two-cities-as-cork-prices-a-fraction-of-those-in-the-capital-841880.html

CHealy · 11-05-2018 9:26am

marno21 wrote: »

Interesting article from the Examiner about Cork's docklands vs Dublin's docklands, including a photo of the "development" Dublin has done with its Docklands. By God have they made an absolute hames of it. No standout buildings and very low density. Absoutely fantastic to see the level of ambition Cork has in comparison

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/docks-tell-a-tale-of-two-cities-as-cork-prices-a-fraction-of-those-in-the-capital-841880.html

Dublin had such a good opportunity to create a CBD/Downtown quarter in the docks, a cluster of high rise buildings at the mouth of the river away from that Georgian core they love so much. They completely wasted that chance and its probably too late for them now.

AugustusMinimus · 11-05-2018 9:34am

CHealy wrote: »

Dublin had such a good opportunity to create a CBD/Downtown quarter in the docks, a cluster of high rise buildings at the mouth of the river away from that Georgian core they love so much. They completely wasted that chance and its probably too late for them now.

There’s still a lot of undeveloped space but it is still being developed with 6 storey office blocks. It’s crazy. Should be 20 storey minimum.

GavRedKing · 11-05-2018 9:47am

I dont know if its an Irish thing but we or an Bord Pleanála, seem to be very set in our ways, opposing high rise buildings, and even at that, some of the plans arent exactly skyscrapers, the opportunity in some cases are there and people are willing to build them, so why not take advantage of it?

CHealy · 11-05-2018 9:57am

GavRedKing wrote: »

I dont know if its an Irish thing but we or an Bord Pleanála, seem to be very set in our ways, opposing high rise buildings, and even at that, some of the plans arent exactly skyscrapers, the opportunity in some cases are there and people are willing to build them, so why not take advantage of it?

The planning process in this country is a joke, the amount of time it takes to get anything through the system is mental and it only takes a couple of people to hold up a multi million Euro development if they so wish (see Apple in Athenry). We have a crowd called An Taisce sitting in offices in Dublin somewhere that will object to absolutely everything proposed in every single city, town and village in this state. Im not saying people dont have the right to object but it has to be based on realistic grounds and the way the planning process is handled has to be sped up by about a million percent.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 11-05-2018 11:46am

GavRedKing wrote: »

I dont know if its an Irish thing but we or an Bord Pleanála, seem to be very set in our ways, opposing high rise buildings, and even at that, some of the plans arent exactly skyscrapers, the opportunity in some cases are there and people are willing to build them, so why not take advantage of it?

I think it's more the mentality of those within the planning powers than it being an Irish thing. When you look at Irish people, I would say we've modernized considerably.
Those planning bodies need a huge clear-out.

GavRedKing · 11-05-2018 11:56am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I think it's more the mentality of those within the planning powers than it being an Irish thing. When you look at Irish people, I would say we've modernized considerably.
Those planning bodies need a huge clear-out.

Government/public sector jobs and clears out, dont usually go hand in hand unfortunately.

marno21 · 11-05-2018 12:15pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

Government/public sector jobs and clears out, dont usually go hand in hand unfortunately.

There would be a net gain for the country if they were paid to sit at home rather than the current policy we have. Some of these people would be in favour of crannogs on undeveloped land in the Docklands to "preserve our heritage".

AugustusMinimus · 11-05-2018 12:29pm

marno21 wrote: »

There would be a net gain for the country if they were paid to sit at home rather than the current policy we have. Some of these people would be in favour of crannogs on undeveloped land in the Docklands to "preserve our heritage".

I’ve seen a person on here saying that the entire Cork docklands should be turned into a park.

Yet he wanted loads of public transport without the population density to support it. Crazy stuff.

ofcork · 12-05-2018 7:33pm

TheChizler wrote: »

I can't picture what this is, I thought the Horgan's Quay development and the existing Penrose Quay buildings were across the road from one another, what other space is there? Unless they're planning on demolishing the Union Chandlery etc?

There are already plans to demolish union chandlery old reliance building by ocp I believe.

snotboogie · 12-05-2018 10:21pm

marno21 wrote: »

Just a couple of updates on the roads side:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange: This is currently at the tender stage now with some time, a tender award is expected in Q2 2018. The project is expected to fully start in Q1 2019 as a comprehensive traffic management plan will have to be put in place by the contractor. Some site clearance and early works are ongoing at present, and some preliminary work is expected to go ahead in Q4 2018.

N22 Macroom to Ballyvourney (bypasses Macroom and Ballyvourney): The tender process for this started last week, with candidates invited to apply to the prequalification stage until early June. After this, candidates will be invited to tender in July 2018 when the official tender process will begin. The project is currently programmed to begin in Q1 2020 but there is scope for acceleration of this

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy: This project was submitted to An Bord Pleanala in May 2017 and a decision was expected to be published in December 2017, which was delayed to April 2018 and still hasn't been released. The project has been held up by a small but vocal group of local individuals objecting on a range of fronts primarily environmental and related to noise and pollution, in addition to a belief that TII & Cork County Council are trying to create congestion in Rochestown and Douglas. The decision is expected ASAP however an appeal is expected if it is approved. A big "watch this space"...

M20 Cork-Limerick: This tender process for the design and planning of this scheme went out last week with route selection expected to begin in September 2018. The project, if approved, will likely start around 2022 and open in 2025/2026.

M40 Cork North Ring Road: This project was included in the National Development Plan and will be reactivated if there is a requirement to connect the M20 to the motorway network around Cork. The road remains a priority for people on the Northside (including Apple) but not to central Government.

N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton: This project is included in the National Development Plan having been suspended in 2011. The project will be sent for appraisal in 2018 and if it merits will be prioritised for delivery. The scheme was at route selection stage when suspended.

The remainder of schemes planned for Cork (N22 Macroom-Ovens, N25 Midleton-Youghal, N40 North Ring West, N71 dualling) all remain suspended.

This plan or idea is what has always got me excited about Cork roads; The N22 and N25 Southern Ring upgrades are designed to create a motorway ring around Cork city. Cork will have the M20 entering from the northwest and the M8 from the northeast. With some judicious changes on the N25 southern ring road and the future N22 northern ring road, an M22/M25 ring could be created, and possibly renumbered. The N25 as far east as Midleton would be up to scratch too, as would the N22 up to Macroom to the west. Cork would then be at the centre of nearly as many motorways as Dublin - the M8, M20, M22, and M25. Notably, all of these would actually connect with the ring road, unlike at Dublin where the joins are via lower standard DC sections. In order to achieve all this, some junction upgrades or reconfiguration would be needed for the N22 and N25 sections encircling Cork.

What do you think our chances of ever seeing this are? Looking at your post it doesn't seem that there is an interest in this at a national level, if there was projects like the NRR West wouldn't be in a state of permanent limbo and Ovens-Macroom would be getting precedence over Macroom-Ballyvourney.

Cork developments

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