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The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

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    #62
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Right if going overseeding a pasture or stitching in to unproductive pasture then the best practice is to have the grass either sprayed off/ Tightly grazed or go at the job just after a field is cut for silage.

    The reason for stitching just after grass is cut for silage is that the old grass will be stunted for a few days and will give the new seeds a chance to germinate and get established before they are completely smothered by the old grass.

    Very important if grass is stitched in is to regulate the Nitrogen that is applied afterwards as you'll only be feeding the old grass which in turn will outperform the new grass and more than likely kill it off. The only time you would load on the nitrogen is if the grass was sprayed off or the field is badly poached and you just want to repair it asap and you dont care which grass establishes as you just want the field back into rotation asap.

    So if Stitching in you spread 0-7-30 and if its Poached/Sprayed ground then its your standard 10-10-20

    Pics below are a good example of a tightly grazed paddock that's right for stitching in


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    #63
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    So an example of me repairing poached ground

    * The ground (as a guide) should be able to take a slurry tanker without being tore up
    * The amount of leveling runs of the harrow depends on the degree of poaching but most will be level in 1 or 2 runs.
    * The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the poached pasture then less can be applied.
    * Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 or 10-10-20 are spread as per above (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the leveling runs)
    * No harm to spread 1 bag of gran lime at this stage also.
    * Then roll or wash in with a slurry tanker. Parlour washings or watery cattle slurry only. Pig slurry has been known to kill off seeds

    The soil has to have a good index for the next 2 methods

    So an example of me stitching ground.

    * The ground should tightly grazed or cut for silage
    * The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
    * The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the pasture then less can be applied.
    * Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
    * You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
    * Then roll.
    * A grazing managing system has to be applied now
    * For example cattle are removed for 2 weeks. graze then for 3/4 days and removed then again for 2 weeks and allowed in for another 3/4 days. During this time NO nitrogen should be applied till the new grass is established and can compete with the old grass.
    * NO silage can be cut from this method for the first year so this is usually done in the autumn after the second cut or first cut if the field is not required to be cut again



    So an example of me Reseeding ground.

    * The ground should sprayed off.
    * The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
    * The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 15kg an acre but have done it to 23kg an acre.
    * Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 10-10-20 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
    * You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up and present from sprayed material on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
    * Then roll.
    * Dont forget to feed the new grass often as the new grass will be hungry. Biggest failure of reseeds is that farmers just close the gates after the harrow and leave it for months and then cant understand why its not performing. This is where the contractor or seed gets the blame


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    #64
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    lab man wrote: »
    When u stitch how deep does the seed go

    Seed should be on top of the ground or barely covered. Any grass seed that's buried any more than 1cm will not germinate. (Open to correction on this)


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    #65
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    An example of poached ground.

    Before harrowing
    After harrowing
    Roughly 6 weeks later

    For this job i would have used a rejuvenation mix from Agritech which was all Tetraploid at 10kg per acre


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    #66
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Who2 wrote: »
    Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.
    I'll have to open this one to the masses. Can sow it alright but not too familiar to the management of it.


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    #67
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    I'll do a walk around of the grass harrow if there's an interest. Just to show how it works.


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    #68
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,073 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Good man Reggie keep the info comming ,makings of a really interesting thread here.go on show us the landini and how clean it is !!!!!!!!


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    #69
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    From lab man:When u stitch how deep does the seed go

    From Who2 : Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.
    Mod note: Sorry lads, I deleted your posts just to keep all Reggies posts together so Reggie can reply quoting this one


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    #70
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Right what we have here is a Palatine 180 grass harrow with an APV Ps300 mounted on top. It's 4.5m wide and has a total of 180 tines with 60 tines on three separate platforms
    Pic 1 and 2

    Pic 3 is the top link sensor that shuts off the seed when the harrow is lifted but keeps the fans running.

    Pic 4 is the magnet wheel sensor. This measures my speed by the number of rotations of the ground wheel. This in turn tells the control box to increase or decrease the flow of seeds by how fast I'm going. This insures that I'm getting and even spread of seed across the working width.

    Pic 5 these are the two fans at the rear of the harrow which blow the seed down the pipes to the dispersion plates


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    #71
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Pic 1 These are the rollers that are inside and at the bottom of the hopper. These rotate and move the seed down from the hopper to the pipes below. The faster the rollers turn the more seed is dispersed. Each roller does a different seed or crop. The middle one is the clover one as you can see from the very small grooves as the clover seed is tiny

    Pic 2 this is the hopper. It can hold approx 6 to 7 bags of seed. So roughly nearly 90kg. This is enough depending on seed rate to keep me going for 7 to 8 acres which is roughly an hours seeding. If full of clover it's nearly a days work if not two.

    Pic 3 This is the inside of the hopper. Under that seed is where the roller is situated. It is removed from the side of the seeder.

    Pic 4 you can just about see the roller on top and the 8 pipes underneath the roller that carry the seed. By removing this panel you can empty any seed in the hopper at the end of the day by just running the roller.

    Pic 5 here are the 8 pipes leading away from the seeder.


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    #72
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Pic 1 here the pipes lead to these dispersion plates. These plates spread the seed in a half moon shape roughly 2 feet radius around the plate

    Pic 2 these are the work horses. These are 8mm tines that have up to 14 different settings to get as aggressive or as tender as you need them to be. As they are spring loaded they have savage tension and ripping power. Set at full tilt they will rip the top layer of soil to pieces but this is hard on the tine itself.

    Pic 3 is the 50mm replaceable bush that supports the side platform. Each of the 3 platforms can move up and down and at any angle independently of one another.


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    #73
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    From lab man:When u stitch how deep does the seed go

    Seed should be barely covered or left on top of the ground. Seed that's buried more than 1cm will not germinate (Open to correction on this one)


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    #74
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

    From Who2 : Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.
    I have sown kale but I'll have to open this to the masses as I'm not fully sure on the management of it.


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    #75
    Pidae.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 851 ✭✭✭Pidae.m


    We cut a paddock very very bad here & the plan is set a bag /acre with the einbock seeder and slurry


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    #76
    leoch
    Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭leoch


    Excellent thread Reggie very informative


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    #77
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Reggie thank you so much for such an informative thread.

    I have to confess it reminds me just slightly of a certain Henry Reed poem...

    "Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday we had daily cleaning, and tomorrow we will have what to so after firing..."


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    #78
    Mf310
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Mf310


    One thing i find does the best job on any reseed is rolling ive done 2 runs of the roller on some paddocks and serious establishment afterwards...... reggie do you ever get any jobs to just harrow a grass field no seed? Would you find it a good job i know a nice bit of dead grass comes after it alright.


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    #79
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Mf310 wrote: »
    One thing i find does the best job on any reseed is rolling ive done 2 runs of the roller on some paddocks and serious establishment afterwards...... reggie do you ever get any jobs to just harrow a grass field no seed? Would you find it a good job i know a nice bit of dead grass comes after it alright.

    Yeah do it on our own fields. Most lads I think still reckon harrowing fields are a gimmick and don't want to pay for it. Do a few paddocks for the horsey crowd tho

    You would be very surprised of what trash comes out of a pasture. Sometimes just harrowing a pasture will be as good as a reseed sometimes. It removes the trash and allows the good healthy grass to tiller out and grow.


    As for the rolling. It's all about a solid seedbed and soil contact. You would be surprised at how many lads refuse to roll thier fields


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    #80
    foxirl
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭foxirl


    Great info Reggie. Any advice for mouse eared chickweed. Reseed from last September is full of it and the sheep don't seem to eat it. Thinking of saving hay on some of it and was wondering once the grass gets long will is smother it out.


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    #81
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    foxirl wrote: »
    Great info Reggie. Any advice for mouse eared chickweed. Reseed from last September is full of it and the sheep don't seem to eat it. Thinking of saving hay on some of it and was wondering once the grass gets long will is smother it out.

    2017 must have been a year for the chickweed as a neighbour has the same issue. He says it's popped up everywhere in a reseed.

    If the grass doesn't smother it you could try to harrow it out after that. Hopefully the double hit might knock it back. Other than that then spray might be your only option.


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    #82
    Tomjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Tomjim


    thanks for the thread - very informative.

    Just wondering if a chain harrow would do the same job


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    #83
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Tomjim wrote: »
    thanks for the thread - very informative.

    Just wondering if a chain harrow would do the same job

    Would be better than nothing but truthfully it hasn't enough weight to dig into the ground. Could possibly pull poached ground with extra runs maybe


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    #84
    Tomjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Tomjim


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Would be better than nothing but truthfully it hasn't enough weight to dig into the ground. Could possibly pull poached ground with extra runs maybe

    even the one on the frame


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    #85
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Tomjim wrote: »
    even the one on the frame

    One on the frame might work as they usually have a levelling bar along the front


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    #86
    MeTheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭MeTheMan


    Great write up. Have never put out any seeds here. Might try some day.

    Always thought rolling was a bad idea because it compacts the soil and leads to bad soakage and aeration? Would you roll a field that hadn't been seeded?


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    #87
    Tomjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Tomjim


    Reggie. wrote: »
    One on the frame might work as they usually have a levelling bar along the front

    what other options are available that would not be too expensive


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    #88
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Tomjim wrote: »
    what other options are available that would not be too expensive

    Will it's tine harrows or chain harrows really.

    Landlevellers are too bullish for the job I think


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    #89
    Tomjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭Tomjim


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Will it's tine harrows or chain harrows really.

    Land levelled are too bullish for the job I think

    and tine harrow would be better than a chain harrow?


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    #90
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Tomjim wrote: »
    and tine harrow would be better than a chain harrow?

    It would be as it applies more pressure to the ground with the tensioner tine. A chain harrow just drags along the top of the ground. You would have to add weight to the chain. Some lads attach a gate to them


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    #91
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭alps


    Brilliant brilliant info Reggie...thanks for taking the time..


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