The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

Lt Dan · 01-11-2016 3:08pm

kfallon wrote: »

Flat track bullies imo!

Tho, tbf, I don't think Galileo was quick out of the blocks as a stallion either (open to correction on that)

Did Galileo get the type of Fillies that Frankel has got?

I see one horse from the Sales in Newmarket, that Frankel mated with Mark Johnson 's Double 1000 Guineas winner (Attraction) of 2004. Sold recently for almost 2 million

Lt Dan · 01-11-2016 3:16pm

kfallon wrote: »

Oh I totally agree, all I'm saying is that there is still time for him to turn it around and become a superb stallion!

I couldn't give a shít tho, to be perfectly honest, sick of the hype! Poor man's Sea The Stars!

Well, I doubt he has many Classic contenders at least for the Guineas, so, we won't have to read or hear about him. Judging by Roger Charlton's pageant for dodging races , Fair Eva won't be "ready" -no guarantee that she would get the trip anyway with her mother being a sprinter. Seven Heavens may not be seen again in a decent race after that behaviour. Queen Kindly may come on but not in classics.

As for Sea The Stars, well, he seems to have got 1 or 2 (max) Group 1 winners a year since since children started racing around 2012. Not bad. Already a Epsom Derby-Oaks, Irish Derby , King George German Derby winning sire. Other other horses some some decent Group 2-3 races this year. I wonder what is in store for him. Anyone feel that his stud fee is a slight bit too big?

tryfix · 01-11-2016 4:52pm

Lt Dan wrote: »

Well, I doubt he has many Classic contenders at least for the Guineas, so, we won't have to read or hear about him. Judging by Roger Charlton's pageant for dodging races , Fair Eva won't be "ready" -no guarantee that she would get the trip anyway with her mother being a sprinter. Seven Heavens may not be seen again in a decent race after that behaviour. Queen Kindly may come on but not in classics.

As for Sea The Stars, well, he seems to have got 1 or 2 (max) Group 1 winners a year since since children started racing around 2012. Not bad. Already a Epsom Derby-Oaks, Irish Derby , King George German Derby winning sire. Other other horses some some decent Group 2-3 races this year. I wonder what is in store for him. Anyone feel that his stud fee is a slight bit too big?

The 2 fillies deserve the height of respect. Unlike the colts who folded easily and who show suspect temperaments, the 2 fillies ran against top class competion and failed for plausible reasons.

Fair Eva lacked pace, she's actually bred to be a 3yo middle distance performer but was so forward as a 2yo that they thought she was a speedy type. She wasn't disgraced against the GP1 class speedy fillies in the Lowther and still has considerable potential at a mile+.

As for Queen Kindly, at first glance she was born to win the Lowther and not to train on as a 3yo but she's with Fahey who didn't race her in a fashion to burn her out and IIRC he was intent on training her in a way that meant she would train on. He's quite the trainer and I'd have plenty of faith in his ability to get something out of her 3yo career.

Sea The Stars is getting better as he goes on, his only flaw and it's a giant one is his inability to produce GP1 juveniles. He's already had 5 proper GP1 winners, all 3yos and one of them at a mile. Even though he's failing at Juvenile level he's still producing considerably more precocious stock than Dubawi whose GP1 winning juvenile this year is the exception to the rule, indeed Dubawi for a £250,000 stallion has been fierce poor at getting 3yo runners to Epsom in June.

tryfix · 11-12-2016 11:33am

Soul Stirring became the first progeny of Frankel to strike at the highest level when she won the Hanshin Juvenile Fillies at Hanshin racecourse in Japan on Sunday.

The filly, who is out of French Oaks winner Stacelita, is trained by Kazuo Fujisawa for the Shadai Race Horse Co Ltd and she cruised to the front a furlong out in the mile event.

http://www1.attheraces.com/news/latest-news/soul-stirring-gives-sire-frankel-a-first-group-one-verdict

Frankel the stallion bags his first Gp1 in Japan. He really does get the choicest of mares sent his way. His fillies seem to be better than his colts so far.

Lt Dan · 11-12-2016 2:13pm

tryfix wrote: »

http://www1.attheraces.com/news/latest-news/soul-stirring-gives-sire-frankel-a-first-group-one-verdict

Frankel the stallion bags his first Gp1 in Japan. He really does get the choicest of mares sent his way. His fillies seem to be better than his colts so far.

Ah,those muppets in the UK press shall be creaming themselves

diomed · 11-12-2016 6:22pm

Congratulations to Frankel. He will be delighted.
It counts as a 2yo Grade 1 winner, even thought she is just three weeks away for her 3rd birthday.

tryfix · 12-12-2016 6:50pm

tryfix wrote: »

Frankel's first Irish runner goes in the first at the Curragh tomorrow and he's a biggie. He's the Ger Lyons trained Lightening Fast, his dam is the 6f Gp 1 2yo winner Lightening Pearl.

.

That's one hell of an interesting pedigree that Lightening Fast has.

By Frankel whose speediness was at odds with his own pedigree and out of a mare Lightening Pearl ( who has a 12f+ Dosage Index of 0.78 ) who was a Gp1 6f winner by Marju and is a full sister to Sunday's 12f Gp1 Hong Kong Vase winner Satono Crown who needed all of 12f to overhaul Highland Reel.

Lightening Fast's form isn't all that bad either, hopefully he can reach listed or Gp3 class before he gets gelded for not making the grade.

tryfix · 19-12-2016 2:52pm

Frankel out of luck on Sunday as favourite Mi Suerte finishes 4th in the Gr1 Futurity Stakes in Japan.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/result_home.sd?race_id=665962&r_date=2016-12-18&popup=yes#results_top_tabs=re_&results_bottom_tabs=ANALYSIS

tryfix · 30-03-2017 1:27pm

Things are beginning to look very promising for the Frankel 3yos, they stay and seem to be training on.

Count Octave a Frankel 3/4 brother to Treasure Beach won a 12f maiden a few days ago, indeed I reckon with his pedigree he's a likely Leger contender.

David Elsworth is claiming to be excited about Swiss Storm's chance in the 2,000 Guineas and his Japanese GP1 winning 2yo made a successful 3yo comeback.

It's looking to my eyes as I'd Frankel is going to supplying plenty of middle distance horses and it may pay to get on any Derby Trial winner he may have

tryfix · 12-04-2017 5:21pm

Martyn Meade is already on the pace in the fashion stakes by having a winning son of Frankel in his Newmarket stable for 2017 and is hopeful colt Eminent can prove a genuine 2,000 Guineas contender at the Craven meeting next week.

A 40-1 chance with bet365 for the Qipco 2,000 Guineas on May 6, Eminent made a perfect start when winning a maiden on his debut on the Rowley Mile in September and could be one of many Frankel offspring that do battle in the race their sire won so memorably in 2011.

Meade said: "You've got to have a Frankel in your yard in this day and age haven't you and hopefully we've found a good one.

"There could be three or four Frankels lining up in the 2,000 Guineas which is exciting and the plan is to run Eminent in either the Craven Stakes or the Feilden Stakes next week to see where we are before we make a decision about the 2,000 Guineas."

In contrast to most of the Frankels that have been on the market, Eminent was in the bargain basement category when agent Dermot Farrington picked him up privately for 150,000 gns after he failed to make his reserve at Tattersalls in October 2015.

Meade added: "He was very backward and gangly as a two-year-old and we didn't think we would get a run into him at one stage.

"You could see why many people were put off at the sales as he looked as if he would take an awfully long time to make it onto the track but we took a punt and he just progressed and progressed."

Prior to his win, Eminent was giving out the right signals at home to prompt a significant change of colours before he had even run.

Meade said: "New Zealander Sir Peter Vela, who has owned a Melbourne Cup winner, bought him before the race and came over to see him run.

"I was very worried that if he had run badly it could have been a disaster with our new owner but it turned into a fairytale really and hopefully Sir Peter will be back on Guineas weekend."

Meade, who recently bought the nearby Snailwell Stud to complement his 50-box set up at Sefton Lodge on Newmarket's Bury Road, added: "We've always thought Eminent will stay further than a mile and that's why he's in the Dante Stakes and the Investec Derby. His dam was placed over a mile and a half so he could be in that sort of territory in time."

A tasty priced classic contender and being from a small yard you're more likely to get a run out of it in the Classics than you are out of one of the legions of promising sorts in the big yards.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/eminent-to-test-classic-credentials-at-craven-meeting/281743

I'd be very surprised if he was sharp enough to win a Guineas but the Derby could be right up his street. He has a Di of 0.88 out of a mare who placed in the Coronation Stakes and who is a daughter of the Gp1 Sadlers Wells filly Quarter Moon. It's a very nice pedigree.

Johner · 13-04-2017 12:17am

Monarchs Glen quickened like a smart horse today at Kempton. A few other winners for Frankel today in handicaps.

Gavin "shels" · 13-04-2017 12:56am

Big prices too, two of them 4/1!

tryfix · 13-04-2017 3:15am

diomed wrote: »

Congratulations to Frankel. He will be delighted.
It counts as a 2yo Grade 1 winner, even thought she is just three weeks away for her 3rd birthday.

That Soul Stirring couldn't do the business in the Japanese 1,000 Guineas, she was within half a length but you'd be kinda expecting a win from a star from a first crop sire who'd already beaten the winner in their trial race.

It's probable that she now needs a trip as her dam Stacelita was a multiple 10f GP 1 winner. Soul Stirring's DI of 0.52 is apparently that of a Cup horse but the exact same as her mother's so 10f should be okay for her.

Gavin "shels" · 21-04-2017 12:18am

Eminent impressive today

Ben Gadot · 28-04-2017 3:13pm

Interesting race there at Sandown. Frankuus hasn't lost any of his toughness and should come on after that. Cunco showed early season fitness once again.

Monarchs Glen disappointing of course but still wouldn't rule out anything there.

byronbay2 · 28-04-2017 4:19pm

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Interesting race there at Sandown. Frankuus hasn't lost any of his toughness and should come on after that. Cunco showed early season fitness once again.

Monarchs Glen disappointing of course but still wouldn't rule out anything there.

Monarch's Glen blew his chance by pulling too hard - Frankie could hardly restrain him for the first 6f. You can put a line through that run but, obviously, the horse needs to learn to settle to have any chance of winning over 10-12f.

tryfix · 28-04-2017 8:10pm

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Interesting race there at Sandown. Frankuus hasn't lost any of his toughness and should come on after that. Cunco showed early season fitness once again.

Monarchs Glen disappointing of course but still wouldn't rule out anything there.

A poor Derby Trial, I was hoping that Monarch's Glen would thrash these and burst onto the Derby scene. They all finished in a heap, 5 that close together and a Rip Van Winkle nearly winning it. The winner is likeable but the form is well below what you'd like to see.

All in all bar Eminent, even though the Frankels have been winning they've not shown any great turn of foot and that's a big hindrance when they step up in grade.

Can't believe how the Cracksman bubble hasn't burst after this week.

tryfix · 29-04-2017 1:41pm

D Weld has a Frankel newcomer making her debut in the opening 3yo maiden tomorrow at Gowran Park . FRIMA owned by Juddmonte out of a Kahyasi mare.

Seems to be the type of well bred Juddmonte horse that Weld does so well with.

sting60 · 30-04-2017 7:11pm

The most overrated sire considering the top ,top mares he has got.I wouldn't consider any (ANY) of his progeny anywhere good enough to place in a classic.Galileo is in a different planet and he(FRANKEL) is 25th on money earned in UK as 2yr olds considered.HYPE,HYPE,HYPE.in a serious way imo.I would not ask my mother in law to buy a Frankel that is my option and I stand by that big time."Its better to stand alone than stand in a crowd".
O

Auroras_encore · 30-04-2017 7:30pm

sting60 wrote: »

The most overrated sire considering the top ,top mares he has got.I wouldn't consider any (ANY) of his progeny anywhere good enough to place in a classic.Galileo is in a different planet and he(FRANKEL) is 25th on money earned in UK as 2yr olds considered.HYPE,HYPE,HYPE.in a serious way imo.I would not ask my mother in law to buy a Frankel that is my option and I stand by that big time."Its better to stand alone than stand in a crowd".
O

the first time I have agreed with you

sting60 · 30-04-2017 8:24pm

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

Ok I think we should keep track of these. When are we likely to see the first ones out on a race course?

I absolutely agree "we should keep track of these " what a load of ****e and what a shocking standard of understanding of breeding not withstanding his (Frankel)standing in terms of money earned in the UK 2016.He(Frankel) has had the best of mares and 2017 will destroy him in my opinion not withstanding your infatuation with the hype he will be exposed as a dud stallion based on reputation.

Johner · 30-04-2017 9:25pm

lol give him a bloody chance.

sting60 · 30-04-2017 9:46pm

Johner wrote: »

lol give him a bloody chance.

The hype is beyond belief and payed for.what I've seen there is nothing in the Frankel progeny to touch coolmore breeding other than Churchill been a sprinter and the absolute certainty of Rhododendron in the Oakes imo.

sting60 · 30-04-2017 10:00pm

Johner wrote: »

lol give him a bloody chance.

As I always say Time will tell and I could be wrong but Rhodedendron will still win the Oaks.

Johner · 30-04-2017 11:15pm

sting60 wrote: »

As I always say Time will tell and I could be wrong but Rhodedendron will still win the Oaks.

Time will tell but to compare him to Galileo at this stage is ridiculous.

HarshOstrich · 01-05-2017 7:42am

sting60 wrote: »

The most overrated sire considering the top ,top mares he has got.I wouldn't consider any (ANY) of his progeny anywhere good enough to place in a classic.Galileo is in a different planet and he(FRANKEL) is 25th on money earned in UK as 2yr olds considered.HYPE,HYPE,HYPE.in a serious way imo.I would not ask my mother in law to buy a Frankel that is my option and I stand by that big time."Its better to stand alone than stand in a crowd".
O

Eminent would have to have a good chance of placing in the guineas

01-05-2017 12:20pm

sting60 wrote: »

The most overrated sire considering the top ,top mares he has got.I wouldn't consider any (ANY) of his progeny anywhere good enough to place in a classic.

He's already had a horse placed in a classic. Soul stirring, 3rd in Japanese 1,000 guineas.

Far too early to draw any conclusions imho.

tryfix · 01-05-2017 2:39pm

Hard to come to any conclusion yet about Frankel as a stallion.

He's a bit of a machine in terms of firing in the winners and he's had a lot of 3yo runners this early in the season which has shown that his stock don't appear to need time to mature to be competitive.

The frustrating thing with his stock is the way there are so many 100+ OR types who promise to be top horses and then they don't seem to progress too much with racing.

I could see him get a Leger winner such is the sort of one paced finish they seem to have but then you have to look at Eminent who has a good finishing kick. Both he and Fair Eva are decent Guineas prospects although to my eyes they both need further. I've had the idea of Fair Eva as an Oaks winner since she started to get beaten as a 2yo but there doesn't seem to be much talk of that from the stable.

Frankel has so many darts, one of them will surely have hit the board by the end of the season.

Gavin "shels" · 03-05-2017 1:24am

4 of Frankels out tomorrow, 2 in Ascot and 2 in Yarmouth.

Icespire looks the pick of the bunch in the 14.35 at 6/4.

tryfix · 03-05-2017 5:06am

Gavin shels wrote: »

4 of Frankels out tomorrow, 2 in Ascot and 2 in Yarmouth.

Icespire looks the pick of the bunch in the 14.35 at 6/4.

Seven Heavens dropping back to 6f in a Gp3 is a potentially fascinating twist in the Frankel stallion story.

Johner · 03-05-2017 2:42pm

Frankie won't want to watch that one again.

posturingpat · 03-05-2017 2:58pm

Johner wrote: »

Frankie won't want to watch that one again.

Looked to be caught napping alright. Horse likely learned a tonne though, every cloud....

tryfix · 03-05-2017 4:52pm

posturingpat wrote: »

Looked to be caught napping alright. Horse likely learned a tonne though, every cloud....

Don't think the Frankels do come on a tonne like other horses do, although a step up in trip might work wonders.

Andalucia · 03-05-2017 9:41pm

I think quite a few of his progeny are showing signs of temperment, some are proving to be very keen and carrying the head a little awkwardly under pressure

tryfix · 07-05-2017 4:37pm

Frankel who?

WickIow Brave · 07-05-2017 4:47pm

tryfix wrote: »

Frankel who?

Been poor. Doesn't stamp his stock and a lot of them have horrible temperaments.

tryfix · 07-05-2017 4:57pm

WickIow Brave wrote: »

Been poor. Doesn't stamp his stock and a lot of them have horrible temperaments.

From Hero to Zero in a weekend, it's a bit early to be writing him off as half of the genes of his stock come from top class broodmares and Cracksman got a boost to his form when Permian won well yesterday.

How I see it is that his stock come well forward early and don't progress when upped in class.

tryfix · 07-05-2017 5:06pm

Dubawi has had some unbelievable broodmares coming his way since his price was jacked up but he's been quite disappointing for a stallion they advertise as being the best in the World. They do thrive with time so it'll work out for him but they should drop the hype with him. He's a stallion whose best was an OR 127 horse followed by a 124 rated King George winner. Not exactly world's greatest stallion material.

diomed · 07-05-2017 6:07pm

Frankel's offspring needs to win a few races at Royal Ascot. If not he is on a recovery mission.

diomed · 07-05-2017 7:32pm

There is a program starting now (19:30) on RTE2 about "legendary stallion" Frankel.

Gavin "shels" · 08-05-2017 12:40am

diomed wrote: »

There is a program starting now (19:30) on RTE2 about "legendary stallion" Frankel.

Worth a watch?

tryfix · 08-05-2017 1:30am

Seeing that Cracksman is only 8/1 for the Derby after his moderate trial win makes me wonder if the Gosden team are cock sure of his chances, so Frankel is down but not out yet.

diomed · 08-05-2017 4:21am

Gavin shels wrote: »

Worth a watch?

It showed Frankel's races and many interviews with Henry Cecil, Teddy Grimthorpe, stable staff, and others.
The interviews were interesting if a little predictable, but imo the best part of it.

Francie Barrett · 21-05-2017 3:27pm

Soul Stirring wins the Japanese Oaks giving Frankel his first Classic win.

tryfix · 21-05-2017 4:44pm

She came home very well in the end.

Itziger · 21-05-2017 5:16pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Soul Stirring wins the Japanese Oaks giving Frankel his first Classic win.

The Japanese Oaks, that should seal it. Greatest sire in history of the sport.

21-05-2017 5:34pm

Itziger wrote: »

The Japanese Oaks, that should seal it. Greatest sire in history of the sport.

I know - only 1.6 million euro to the winner. Joke of a race really.

You can only judge a sire on proper British races, not these second class contests the Japs and paddies put on.

tryfix · 21-05-2017 6:06pm

Itziger wrote: »

The Japanese Oaks, that should seal it. Greatest sire in history of the sport.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of Japanese racing, they've the best middle distance programme in the world.

Soul Stirring is more like Stacelita in attitude than Frankel, she's not a flashy ball of temperament like Swiss Storm or Seven Heavens.

The grinding untypical Frankels are the ones that'll excel. That's what makes the unexciting Cracksman such a threat in the Derby.

Itziger · 21-05-2017 6:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I know - only 1.6 million euro to the winner. Joke of a race really.

You can only judge a sire on proper British races, not these second class contests the Japs and paddies put on.

Don't mind me, I'm just mad seeing their superstars coming over and winning the Arc every second year.

sting60 · 21-05-2017 6:28pm

Racing post Monday headline 1/3 "Frankel super sire wins Oaks" or 5/1 " Caravaggio paints a beautiful picture".

The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

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