The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

diomed · 05-09-2017 6:51pm

I didn't have a bet (or lay). £866.25 not a bad return for £1.4 million plus training fees.

Lt Dan · 05-09-2017 10:27pm

Who in their right mind sends a million quid horse (nearly two million) to a trainer like William Haggas or Jermey Noseda?

diomed · 08-09-2017 5:44pm

Goldrush, trained by Jim Bolger, won her first outing, a maiden at Navan on 02/09/17 and €8,932. Cost price was €1,700,000.

Goffs Orby Sales 2015, 29-30 September 2015:
Lot 23: Frankel (GB) x Alexander Goldrun (IRE);
Consignor: Mountarmstrong Stud ; Purchaser: China Horse Club €1,700,000

tryfix · 08-09-2017 6:07pm

A 1-2 for Frankel in a 2yo maiden at Ascot today. Where Fair Eva's full brother Herculean bullied his way into the lead and stayed on for 1/2L win from the Walifadsu who's out of Rumoush who finished 3rd in the Oaks .

The form isn't exactly special but Herculean is a massive chestnut lump of a 2yo who looks like an even larger exact copy of his sister Fair Eva. Would think on pedigree that his best days will be as a youngish horse, while the second Walifadsu looked like he could improve past the winner in time.

tryfix · 08-09-2017 6:17pm

diomed wrote: »

Goldrush, trained by Jim Bolger, won her first outing, a maiden at Navan on 02/09/17 and €8,932. Cost price was €1,700,000.

Goffs Orby Sales 2015, 29-30 September 2015:
Lot 23: Frankel (GB) x Alexander Goldrun (IRE);
Consignor: Mountarmstrong Stud ; Purchaser: China Horse Club €1,700,000

Speaking of silly money sales figures, Glorious Journey Godolphins £2.6 million ( Dubawi x Fallen for You) colt picked up some black type today in France where he won a Gp 3 2yo race over 7f.

tryfix · 09-09-2017 4:25pm

A first race double at Leopardstown with two 2yos out of Gp 1 winning mares and that's why Frankel is set to stay in the top tier of stallions for the rest of his career.

As I said earlier, you can send a top class GP1 mare to him and the odds are that you're going to get some kind of return back, especially with filly foals who'll retain the value of the cover many times over as future broodmares.

O'Brien now has 2 Gp winning Frankel 2yo colts who will find stallion opportunities at some level in the future.

It's interesting to see how the more patiently campaigned Frankel's are maturing nicely.

tryfix · 10-09-2017 2:05pm

Cracksman winning the Prix Niel in good style, but his winning distance over Avilius in 2nd was very similar to Eminent's win over the same horse. Cracksman did do it easier than Eminent did but maybe Cracksman huge improvement in the Voltigeur ain't all that it was cracked up to be. There's a form line there with Ice Breeze in today's race as well which pulls down the potential strength of this win and ties in with Venice Beach.

tryfix · 18-09-2017 4:58pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUInvA16G0

They do things differently in Japan.

Tanino Frankel ( Frankel x Vodka) wins a 2yo maiden over 10f from the front without breaking much sweat. Hardly the kind of stamina test a very well bred potentially top class European colt would be given, but they appreciate stamina in Japan.

He's quite the eye-catcher too, a big bruiser.

Francie Barrett · 18-09-2017 5:10pm

Impressive performance, you knew the minute it was out of the gate it was the winner. The question though, did it just beat trees?

tryfix · 18-09-2017 7:09pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Impressive performance, you knew the minute it was out of the gate it was the winner. The question though, did it just beat trees?

Won't know until they step up in class, but he was cruising the whole way. He was obviously well schooled, so maybe he's just a big precocious yoke typical of the last year's Frankel 2yos.

He looks like an older American dirt horse already.

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 1:27am

tryfix wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUInvA16G0

They do things differently in Japan.

Hinan Frankel ( Frankel x Vodka) wins a 2yo maiden over 10f from the front without breaking much sweat. Hardly the kind of stamina test a very well bred potentially top class European colt would be given, but they appreciate stamina in Japan.

He's quite the eye-catcher too, a big bruiser.

Hence why Euros are on a hiding to nothing preferring the much much much financially rewarding Japan Cup (if they win or place, with the bonus scheme ) rather over a Breeders Turf

Some serious progress with stayers in Japan. It is harder for them too as their winter is horrific with all that snow, but they are very technology savy, might might Coolmore blush a little

tryfix · 26-09-2017 4:19pm

O'Brien with a very well bred 1,2 for Frankel today at Tipperary.

He seems to have plenty of them about the place and who would have thought that he could end up being a major trainer of the Frankels?

Black_Ninja · 26-09-2017 9:13pm

tryfix wrote: »

O'Brien with a very well bred 1,2 for Frankel today at Tipperary.

He seems to have plenty of them about the place and who would have thought that he could end up being a major trainer of the Frankels?

As far as I know, the Coolmore deal with Juddmonte from Galileo covering Kind entitles Coolmore to 14 covers from Frankel each season

tryfix · 26-09-2017 10:23pm

Black_Ninja wrote: »

As far as I know, the Coolmore deal with Juddmonte from Galileo covering Kind entitles Coolmore to 14 covers from Frankel each season

With Coolmore the ownership issues are very opaque.

Today's second placed Frankel Colt ( out of Cheveley Park's Peeress) was bought by Coolmore ( MV Magnier and a South African Michael Jooste for £1.3m from Cheveley Park Stud at public auction. So it was a genuine Frankel purchase for racing purposes and wasn't one of their own coverings, or if it was it was a very convoluted affair.

The winner Zabriskie was bred by the Niarchos Flaxman Stables and ran in the Niarchos colours. There's a long history between the Niarchos family and Coolmore. Zabriskie is a half brother to Arc winner Bago and to the classy Maxis.

It's very hard to unravel the ownership issues. 14 coverings per year by Frankel would be some deal in hindsight.

Black_Ninja · 27-09-2017 6:56am

tryfix wrote: »

With Coolmore the ownership issues are very opaque.

Today's second placed Frankel Colt ( out of Cheveley Park's Peeress) was bought by Coolmore ( MV Magnier and a South African Michael Jooste for £1.3m from Cheveley Park Stud at public auction. So it was a genuine Frankel purchase for racing purposes and wasn't one of their own coverings, or if it was it was a very convoluted affair.

The winner Zabriskie was bred by the Niarchos Flaxman Stables and ran in the Niarchos colours. There's a long history between the Niarchos family and Coolmore. Zabriskie is a half brother to Arc winner Bago and to the classy Maxis.

It's very hard to unravel the ownership issues. 14 coverings per year by Frankel would be some deal in hindsight.

I can vaguely remember someone explaining to me how some of their purchases work when it comes to foal sharing.

For example they own x stallion and I own y dam. When the sales come around and I decide I want to sell my share and they want to buy it still goes to public auction.

At auction, yearling sells for 600,000. In reality, coolmore would only pay 300,000 as they would already own half.

It's more to get a price on what people are willing to pay for a specific yearling rather than trying to value it for a private sale.

Lt Dan · 27-09-2017 2:01pm

Black_Ninja wrote: »

As far as I know, the Coolmore deal with Juddmonte from Galileo covering Kind entitles Coolmore to 14 covers from Frankel each season

Is there ever a deal that Coolmore come out of the wrong side of?

Okay, Juddmonte produced to them Brian Boru, and sure he won a classic Powerscourt won a few decent races. Coolmore could live with what Noble Mission did on the track and same with Bullet Train. Frankel obviously suggests that Juddmonte won that deal

but , until we know what Frankel can really produce, 14 covers a year sounds nice, if the don't like them , they can sell them.

tryfix · 28-09-2017 2:15am

The price continued to climb until Casse gave a bid of €1.6m, and with a resigned shake of his head Stroud declined to return fire.

"He'll be trained in Ireland by Aidan O'Brien," revealed Casse. "He's for the Zayats [owners of American Pharoah]. We came here looking for horses with stallion potential. Justin Zayat liked him and Aidan liked him, and the parties involved know all about making stallions. Plus, he's out of a young stakes-producing mare."

The March-born colt is a close relation to Norwegian Group 3 winner Giuseppe Piazzi, who had added the Scandinavian Open Championship to his CV since the catalogue's publication, and a half-brother to Australian Group 2 winner Adjusted.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-world/frankel-fever-hits-orby-sale-as-1-6-million-colt-takes-centre-stage/302440

More Frankel fever, and yet again Coolmore and O'Brien are seemingly willing to push Frankel on the track and in the sales ring towards the kind of rarefied level Galileo and Dubawi are operating at.

Tomorrow at Newmarket looks like another big day for Frankel with a Frankel colt out of Midday called Midi trained by Michael Stoute in the opener. IIRC there were rumours about this fellow being a better prospect than Stoute's Guineas favourite Expert Eye. He's 13/2 tomorrow so may not be ready but expect him to make a great show at some stage and be declared amongst the favourites for next year's Derby.

His dam Midday has produced hype horses Midterm and Midi's sister Mori, both of which have been bookies friends. Mori herself runs later in the week.

Elarqam ( Frankel X Attraction) looks on course to take the Gp 3 Tattersalls Stakes later in the card.

If that wasn't enough Frankel for ya, UAE King ( a half brother to Dubawi) goes in the 2m listed race.

It's truly amazing how the rain softened ground has propelled a flagging Frankel right back into the spotlight where he's now nailed on to continue his high-flying ways.

diomed · 28-09-2017 3:20pm

tryfix wrote: »

Elarqam ( Frankel X Attraction) looks on course to take the Gp 3 Tattersalls Stakes later in the card.

Most of them have terrible pedigrees.
Journalists are saying this one is "impeccably bred" i.e. they think a horse by a 2000 Guineas winner our of a 1000 Guineas winner equals "impeccably bred".
They are just displaying a lack of knowledge.
I think Elarqam has a reasonable pedigree and could be useful.

tryfix · 28-09-2017 4:19pm

diomed wrote: »

Most of them have terrible pedigrees.
Journalists are saying this one is "impeccably bred" i.e. they think a horse by a 2000 Guineas winner our of a 1000 Guineas winner equals "impeccably bred".
They are just displaying a lack of knowledge.
I think Elarqam has a reasonable pedigree and could be useful.

True, Attraction was very good herself but is basically from handicapper stock. She's a reasonable record as a Broodmare, nothing very classy but there's enough there to see that she could pop out a high class runner.

Elarqam won his Gp3 today in the style of a horse who needs to get organised to step up again.

He runs like an awkward looking Eminent, with his legs looking uncoordinated. He must have picked up the legs from Attraction who was notorious for having a dodgy leg action.

tryfix · 03-10-2017 7:48pm

A Frankel half sister to Oaks winner Talent ( basically a Cup Horse in the making) goes for £2.5 million at Tattersalls today.

It's crazy stuff, not so much that a well bred Frankel filly ( Broodmare to be) would make so much, but that foals are selling weekly now for multi-million price tags. It's a bubble that's reliant on a continuous cycle of selling sky-high price yearlings thereby making the production of high priced yearlings a justification for the sky-high price of new breeding stock.

There's no basis for the prices based on future earnings at the track, the opposite applies so it's all a house of cards now propped up by rich outsiders buying into the racing and bloodstock game. All it'll take is another economic shock and boom, a whole lot of people will be caught out with high priced stock that'll sell for peanuts compared to the price it cost to produce it.

Itziger · 03-10-2017 8:27pm

tryfix wrote: »

A Frankel half sister to Oaks winner Talent ( basically a Cup Horse in the making) goes for £2.5 million at Tattersalls today.

It's crazy stuff, not so much that a well bred Frankel filly ( Broodmare to be) would make so much, but that foals are selling weekly now for multi-million price tags. It's a bubble that's reliant on a continuous cycle of selling sky-high price yearlings thereby making the production of high priced yearlings a justification for the sky-high price of new breeding stock.

There's no basis for the prices based on future earnings at the track, the opposite applies so it's all a house of cards now propped up by rich outsiders buying into the racing and bloodstock game. All it'll take is another economic shock and boom, a whole lot of people will be caught out with high priced stock that'll sell for peanuts compared to the price it cost to produce it.

That'll be their problem, won't it. It's about time this country and a lot of others saw these 'investors' for what they are: Big Time greedy Gamblers.

The problem will be the poor bloody stable lads and lasses who might be looking for work as a result of the players.

Same thing happens in many, many other areas of life of course, not just horse breeding and selling.

diomed · 05-10-2017 5:46pm

Some real bargains in the Tattersalls yearling sales at Newmarket today.
Pity I slept in and missed my flight. :pac:

418 Gloam (IRE) B.F. by Galileo (IRE) x Dank (GB) Related Results 4,000,000 guineas ... Consignor: Norris Bloodstock — Purchaser: Godolphin
381 Invincible Spirit (IRE) / Cassandra Go (IRE) B.F. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,600,000 ... Consignor: Ballyhimikin Stud, Ireland — Purchaser: MV Magnier
416 Dubawi (IRE) / Danedream (GER) B.C. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,500,000 ... Consignor: Newsells Park Stud Ltd. (Agent) — Purchaser: Shadwell Estate Company
347 Dubawi (IRE) / Attraction (GB) B.C. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,350,000 ... Consignor: Floors Stud — Purchaser: Shadwell Estate Company
443 Sea The Stars (IRE) / Elegant Shadow (GER) B.C. Related Results Video 1,000,000 ... Consignor: Deerpark Stud, Ireland — Purchaser: Kerri Radcliffe Bloodstock

tryfix · 05-10-2017 6:51pm

diomed wrote: »

Some real bargains in the Tattersalls yearling sales at Newmarket today.
Pity I slept in and missed my flight. :pac:

418 Gloam (IRE) B.F. by Galileo (IRE) x Dank (GB) Related Results 4,000,000 guineas ... Consignor: Norris Bloodstock — Purchaser: Godolphin
381 Invincible Spirit (IRE) / Cassandra Go (IRE) B.F. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,600,000 ... Consignor: Ballyhimikin Stud, Ireland — Purchaser: MV Magnier
416 Dubawi (IRE) / Danedream (GER) B.C. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,500,000 ... Consignor: Newsells Park Stud Ltd. (Agent) — Purchaser: Shadwell Estate Company
347 Dubawi (IRE) / Attraction (GB) B.C. Related Results VideoUpdate 1,350,000 ... Consignor: Floors Stud — Purchaser: Shadwell Estate Company
443 Sea The Stars (IRE) / Elegant Shadow (GER) B.C. Related Results Video 1,000,000 ... Consignor: Deerpark Stud, Ireland — Purchaser: Kerri Radcliffe Bloodstock

But she's such a beautiful thing

It turns out that there's method to the madness. The Sheikh is serious about turning up the success rate of his own studs. Stock like her are designed to turn the Sheikh's breeding operation into something more Juddmonte like.

"You very rarely have a filly of this quality come onto the market," said Gosden. "She's by a great stallion and out of a phenomenal racemare. She's an outstanding physical example. For her racing future and her breeding future she's a very exciting prospect - that's what we prefer to concentrate on."

Gosden went on to explain some of the thinking behind the commitment of such an eye-watering sum.

"You must always think that the stud needs to be regenerated with new bloodlines," he said. "That's very important, for the racing programme and the breeding programme equally. If we see nice fillies by any stallion we'll be very interested, just as we would with a nice colt. It just so happens that this filly, and the filly sold by Ballylinch at Goffs, are outstanding physical specimens with great pedigrees."

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-world/godolphin-outgun-coolmore-at-4-million-gns-for-galileo-filly/303401

Itziger · 05-10-2017 8:49pm

tryfix wrote: »

But she's such a beautiful thing

It turns out that there's method to the madness. The Sheikh is serious about turning up the success rate of his own studs. Stock like her are designed to turn the Sheikh's breeding operation into something more Juddmonte like.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-world/godolphin-outgun-coolmore-at-4-million-gns-for-galileo-filly/303401

Just showed the pic to my wife, and she said......... "Very shiny". That's what 4 million bucks gets ya these days, a shiny horse.

Itziger · 05-10-2017 8:51pm

She does look a beauty though.

diomed · 06-10-2017 10:21am

Itziger wrote: »

She does look a beauty though.

Yes, that is a nice looking woman leading the filly.
I would be more interested in the height of the person leading the horse.
Many consignors have their horses led by small people to make the horse look big.

Francie Barrett · 13-10-2017 8:15pm

I have to say Goldrush looked very impressive there in the 8:00 at Dundalk winning its listed race. Ran green as anything and looked in trouble coming around the bend, Kevin Manning only had to push the button and it sliced through the field to win, coming home finishing the fastest. Looks like there is improvement to come.

tryfix · 13-10-2017 11:22pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I have to say Goldrush looked very impressive there in the 8:00 at Dundalk winning its listed race. Ran green as anything and looked in trouble coming around the bend, Kevin Manning only had to push the button and it sliced through the field to win, coming home finishing the fastest. Looks like there is improvement to come.

Had a look at the result, she beat nothing, the second has an OR of 100 but hasn't run to that in a very long time, the third is an OR 91 rated 8yo beaten 1 1/4 lengths ( about the same advantage as the 3lbs sex allowance would give her over it). The 4th is an OR 96 beaten 1 3/4 L.

Rpr ratings ( which are a few Lb below ORs) for the race are 1st 96, 2nd 97, 3rd 96, 4th 95.

She's a fair bit to go to find enough improvement to win a moderate Gp3 next time.

tryfix · 14-10-2017 2:22pm

Would be hoping for a win today from Zabriskie in the 2.25 at Newmarket. He's a big price considering he's already a winner and with a group 3 win here he could turn him into a valuable stallion. Even with just one group win he'd be set with his pedigree.

It's a quality little race all the same, but O'Brien has been knocking in the group wining Frankel's somewhat against the odds too.

Tried for the first half, started to get outpaced and didn't have a hard race. Might need the muck to be flying to be at his best.

'twas a very decent race.

tryfix · 16-10-2017 9:35pm

A trio of black type winners for Frankel in in the last few days with Aljezeera winning a listed 1m6f race today and Monarch's Glen winning a Gp 3 over 1m on Saturday + Rubilinda an American Frankel won a listed race over there on Saturday.

The first two tried and failed in better company but have come good in lesser pattern events. It's a bit of a pattern so far with the Frankels which could be cured by time.

Not a bad problem to have, winning too many minor pattern races. I feel Frankel falls into similar territory to Dubawi, both seem to produce bucket loads of promising horses who are 100+ performers but they often come up short on the really big days, although Dubawi obviously has a far better record of his stock making a success out of tackling group 1 company.

Time does a lot for the Dubawi.

Cracksman on Saturday could do a lot for the case that the Frankels need time, but I sure as hell will be backing against that particular hype machine on Saturday.

The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

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