How do people live off low wages?

antimatterx · 04-11-2019 10:10pm #1

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

I'm 23, I make 32K as a software engineer, but I live with my parents so I can save a good chunk of money every month. I realize I'm lucky and I'll probably be on 50-70K in 2/3 years, but for people who won't get great raises, how do you live (especially in Dublin)

IAMAMORON · 04-11-2019 10:15pm

You need to get involved in more crime like everyone else does.

Either that or start your own left-wing movement and revolutionise everyone, it's just not fair, all the rich people are bastards and it is all their fault. I will vote for ye.

Fann Linn · 04-11-2019 10:17pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You need to get involved in more crime like everyone else does.

Either that or start your own left-wing movement and revolutionise everyone, it's just not fair, all the rich people are bastards and it is all their fault. I will vote for ye.

Nice view of the world from inside your head.

BDI · 04-11-2019 10:20pm

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 10:20pm

Don’t bother work and get pregnant as soon as possible to get a free house.

Live off the benefits then. You’ll also be able to reject houses till you get one you like.

It’s a great little country. You can secretly have a partner living there as well.

As easy as that

lola85 · 04-11-2019 10:22pm

On low wages you qualify for a lot of benefits including HAP which will pay up to 1800 euro a month towards your rent.

antimatterx · 04-11-2019 10:22pm

BDI wrote: »

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

Loads of people study it, a small percent end up working as developers. The skills gap is growing year on year.

10/50 that graduated with me are working as devs, it's a common trend among other courses.

weemcd · 04-11-2019 10:23pm

Necessity is the mother of invention.

You'll live unbelievably cheaply if you have to. That becomes problematic when you have dependants who rely on you though.

I'm in the same wage bracket as you and live renting with one other person, rent is cheap, relatively speaking. I can make myself cheap meals and walk everywhere, within reason. I'm by no means rich, but reasonably comfortable. I don't own many flashy things, I've a decent laptop I paid off monthly, and a reasonably up to date phone on contract. I have a car but don't spend much on fuel and it's cheap to run.

I'll point out I live in South Belfast where living costs, mainly rent, would be a fraction of Dublin prices.

sasta le · 04-11-2019 10:23pm

BDI wrote: »

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

As the uptake of studying gone up a lot,I ask as someone in the hospitality trade that wants a change

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 10:25pm

BDI wrote: »

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

Theres currently 1600 jobs on daft.ie looking for people in IT. Just studying IT whether databases, programming, hardware does not automatically make you good at it.

It’s a life long commitment with non stop learning including your spare time, A lot of people can’t hack it.

Studying a degree in programming does not automatically make you a programmer

BuboBubo · 04-11-2019 10:25pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

I'm 23, I make 32K as a software engineer, but I live with my parents so I can save a good chunk of money every month. I realize I'm lucky and I'll probably be on 50-70K in 2/3 years, but for people who won't get great raises, how do you live (especially in Dublin)

Lots of families are entitled to an income supplement if they are living on low wages. Careful planning and budgeting helps when it comes to low incomes.

BDI · 04-11-2019 10:26pm

antimatterx wrote: »

Loads of people study it, a small percent end up working as developers. The skills gap is growing year on year.

10/50 that graduated with me are working as devs, it's a common trend among other courses.

So young chap, there are 4 people willing to do every one job that comes on the market. Think about that. What happens when there are 4 qualified road sweepers and the boss needs one. Does he offer top rates? Extra holidays? Bank holidays optional?

Still waters · 04-11-2019 10:28pm

Give it time, the new minimum wage job will be all things computer, every clown and his brother is studying I.T.

BDI · 04-11-2019 10:30pm

Now gerra from the rough estate over the road can do a website for you for a few euro into the hand.

Kids are making apps

major bill · 04-11-2019 10:32pm

70k In 2 or 3 years ya gotta love the young wans!! Not a hope unless you are **** hot and work for a decent company might take ya bit longer to get up the wage ladder to what you expect!

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 10:35pm

BDI wrote: »

So young chap, there are 4 people willing to do every one job that comes on the market. Think about that. What happens when there are 4 qualified road sweepers and the boss needs one. Does he offer top rates? Extra holidays? Bank holidays optional?

1600 jobs and so many variations in IT. Do you think all IT jobs are the same and everyone is a programmer?

Theres:
Programming( c, c++, Java, PHP to name a few)
Databases
Hardware
Networking
Security
Windows server administration
Liniux administraton
VMware engineer
Cloud computing engineer
Data centre engineer
Desktop support
SCCM Enginner
Help desk roles

Along with many many more areas. Not everyone is cut out to a programmer where the highest wages are.

People end up in the area that they like best and do certs in their spare time to upskill. Really your embarrassing yourself.

antimatterx · 04-11-2019 10:37pm

BDI wrote: »

So young chap, there are 4 people willing to do every one job that comes on the market. Think about that. What happens when there are 4 qualified road sweepers and the boss needs one. Does he offer top rates? Extra holidays? Bank holidays optional?

The two tech companies I have worked for struggle to find people. There are not 4 people for every dev job in Ireland, there's not even a 1:1 person to job ratio for devs in this country

Redneck Reject · 04-11-2019 10:40pm

You learn to live within your means. My mother cleaned offices during the day and worked part-time at a cantina. In order to keep the lights on and food on the table. And we had a great childhood despite the struggles.

Now people think and demand a certain quality of life without making an effort to contribute to it.

BDI · 04-11-2019 10:43pm

mydingaling2 wrote: »

1600 jobs and so many variations in IT. Do you think all IT jobs are the same and everyone is a programmer?

Theres:
Programming( c, c++, Java, PHP to name a few)
Databases
Hardware
Networking
Security
Windows server administration
Liniux administraton
VMware engineer
Cloud computing engineer
Data centre engineer
Desktop support
SCCM Enginner
Help desk roles

Along with many many more areas. Not everyone is cut out to a programmer where the highest wages are.

People end up in the area that they like best and do certs in their spare time to upskill. Really your embarrassing yourself.

You’re

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 04-11-2019 10:44pm

antimatterx wrote: »

The two tech companies I have worked for struggle to find people. There are not 4 people for every dev job in Ireland, there's not even a 1:1 person to job ratio for devs in this country

There's an elasticity in supply and demand. A labour shortage in a skill does not equate to guaranteed high salaries that don't reflect the worth of the employee's input to the bottom line.

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 10:49pm

BDI wrote: »

You’re

Would you like any more confirmation on IT and how it is booming? And always will be?

Your lack of knowledge on it is quite outstanding.

Are you jealous of people earning massive wages in IT? And in stable work for life?

Andrew00 · 04-11-2019 10:53pm

For young lads nowadays would an apprenticeship be the right thing to do if they're interested in that?

BDI · 04-11-2019 10:55pm

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Would you like any more confirmation on IT and how it is booming? And always will be?

Your lack of knowledge on it is quite outstanding.

Are you jealous of people earning massive wages in IT? And in stable work for life?

I do ok, thanks, I don’t go around shouting about it.

Supply and demand, economics, I did it as part as my college back in the day, ended up a plumber, then providing full mechanical installations at hotels and offices.
Could probably afford a 3000 a month little apartment just off sheriff street if I needed to.
I own property in a sought after area.

You just seem angry and boastful that you finished college.

Ubbquittious · 04-11-2019 10:55pm

Are the wages really that good?

I know loads of people in IT and many would be getting around what the OP is getting. Fellas on 50 and 70k a year are few and far between

antimatterx · 04-11-2019 10:57pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Are the wages really that good?

I know loads of people in IT and many would be getting around what the OP is getting. Fellas on 50 and 70k a year are few and far between

IT and Software Engineering are fierce difference.

Money is really that good. Once you are good that is.

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 10:57pm

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Theres currently 1600 jobs on daft.ie looking for people in IT. Just studying IT whether databases, programming, hardware does not automatically make you good at it.

It’s a life long commitment with non stop learning including your spare time, A lot of people can’t hack it.

Studying a degree in programming does not automatically make you a programmer

Just pointing out you couldn’t be more wrong to be honest.

BDI · 04-11-2019 11:00pm

antimatterx wrote: »

IT and Software Engineering are fierce difference.

Money is really that good. Once you are good that is.

How do you know that? People spoofing to you?

RacoonQueen · 04-11-2019 11:01pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Are the wages really that good?

Yes, big American companies bring new grads in on ridiculous salaries that the rest of us have to try offer something extra to compete with because we can't offer 40k+ to 22 year olds who are just out of college or all the bells and whistles of Facebook/Google

biko · 04-11-2019 11:01pm

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<header>
<title>This is title</title>
</header>
<body>
Hello world
</body>
</html>

Can I have the monee nao?

Tired Gardener · 04-11-2019 11:02pm

Frugally, careful budgeting, and learning to know what you actually need.

Also I think living outside the cities really helps, as the rent prices drop drastically, sure the transport network leaves a lot to be desired.

Also it is surprising how quickly you can adjust, and soon realise just how far your money can go. Plenty of things that people spend money on that are frivolous, being frugal makes sense even if money isn't an issue. I was on good whack previously, and wasted a lot of it, now I'm on a lot less, but have a much better appreciation for money, and also a better quality of life.

Westernyelp · 04-11-2019 11:02pm

Fann Linn wrote:

Nice view of the world from inside your head.

In fairness. Poster declares their situation in their username. Proper transparency. Good to see.

corsav6 · 04-11-2019 11:07pm

Two adults and two kids under 7, soon to be three kids. One working full time and one stay at home as it's honestly cheaper and employment options in the West are limited.
35k per year income guaranteed and add 3-5k for some evening jobs. Running a car and a van but no mortgage or rent so living within our means and not wasteful and we're comfortable.
Shop around, pre plan meals, re use where possible, be energy efficient. Honestly it's not hard to live comfortably without spending a fortune.

Edit: exception is Dublin, I'm not too sure 35k would cut it even without rent or mortgage.

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 11:08pm

BDI wrote: »

How do you know that? People spoofing to you?

Go onto Irish jobs and search IT and see what the wages are.

Graduate should be expecting 30-40K

A mid level software engineer should be expecting 55K minimum , Senior software engineer 70k minimum.

That is programming though which is the highest pay scale.

Also wages can be significantly higher depending on the company .

KungPao · 04-11-2019 11:09pm

<****>thread</****>

biko · 04-11-2019 11:11pm

Move to Cork bai

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 11:12pm

BDI wrote: »

Temping with recruitment agencies

Nope, Permanent positions. I don’t get why you think IT is low paid.

Like sysadmin positions after four or five years experience are easily 40K to 60K or more again depending on the company.

Even plenty of desktop support roles offering 35K to 40k which would be the lowest end of IT work

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 11:20pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Are the wages really that good?

I know loads of people in IT and many would be getting around what the OP is getting. Fellas on 50 and 70k a year are few and far between

Plenty on it, there’s so many different areas in IT that unless you know their job title it’s hard to say what their salary is. It could just be a help desk posistion there in getting 25K a year

jester77 · 04-11-2019 11:25pm

biko wrote: »

<html>
<header>
<title>This is title</title>
</header>
<body>
Hello world
</body>
</html>

Can I have the monee nao?

Sorry, but you need to work on your indentation

Richard Hillman · 04-11-2019 11:38pm

I work a low waged job, living at home is the only option. Its either that or a tent.

I do feel for a lot of the foreign workers that I work with, they don't have that option and have to share rooms.

The dynamics of low waged work are changing too. Every time the minimum wage gets increased, the hours reduce. When I started working, 39 hours was the regular full time job. Then it dropped down to 37.5 and over the last year or you'll be looking to find a job with 30-35 hours. Your basically earning the same amount amount money as somebody similar 10-15 years ago. Whilst taxes have increased and the cost of living is out of control.

A lot of people may say "ah well, sort your life out, get a better job" but cities like Dublin will always need low waged workers. You need them for food, drink, clothes, cleaning, everything. They have to live somewhere. I don't think that fact has grasped the ruling classes.

Padre_Pio · 04-11-2019 11:42pm

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Plenty on it, there’s so many different areas in IT that unless you know their job title it’s hard to say what their salary is. It could just be a help desk posistion there in getting 25K a year

IT is such a broad definition.

Most engineers and comp science grade would start on around 25-30k and hit the 50s after a few years.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A lot of people may say "ah well, sort your life out, get a better job" but cities like Dublin will always need low waged workers. You need them for food, drink, clothes, cleaning, everything. They have to live somewhere. I don't think that fact has grasped the ruling classes.

Those people are right. Therell always be students and young people and migrants to do low paid, low skill work. The aim is to get skilled so you don't have to do these jobs forever.

HamSarris · 04-11-2019 11:45pm

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Nope, Permanent positions. I don’t get why you think IT is low paid.

Like sysadmin positions after four or five years experience are easily 40K to 60K or more again depending on the company.

Even plenty of desktop support roles offering 35K to 40k which would be the lowest end of IT work

IT salaries are currently over-valued and will show a regression towards the mean in the next recession (6-18 months) due to the following factors:

The bankruptcy of billon dollar Silicon-Valley companies who can’t show a profit and never will. The only thing keeping these companies afloat are stupid investors who hope their company will be the next Facebook or Amazon and make them a millionaire.

As a consequence, more companies will actually have to work out how to make a profit. This may include reconsidering whether to pay €500 a day to contractors to pretend to be working.

The cull of IT middle management who may have contributed something as a programmer but nothing as a socially inept manager.

An oversupply of IT graduates who believe the propaganda put out by industry that there’s a massive undersupply of graduates and everyone will be on 70k by their 30s.

This doesn’t address the OP’s question but I sense the motive was to talk about how he feels superior to others in an indirect way. If you're think you're sorted financially why would you open a thread about low wages - like a person who owns a house asking about the difficulties of renting.

Richard Hillman · 04-11-2019 11:47pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Those people are right. Therell always be students and young people and migrants to do low paid, low skill work. The aim is to get skilled so you don't have to do these jobs forever.

Very true, but where are they going to live?

Mrs OBumble · 04-11-2019 11:47pm

lola85 wrote: »

On low wages you qualify for a lot of benefits including HAP which will pay up to 1800 euro a month towards your rent.

And pay next to no tax as well. It really helps.

Also, Lidl/Aldi.

Strumms · 04-11-2019 11:50pm

Op if you manage to double your salary in two years good luck to you but in the real world as opposed to in your head that’s going to prove hard.

Snotty · 04-11-2019 11:57pm

Living and working outside Dublin makes a wage of 30-35k a lot more manageable, rent/mortgage is around 700pm and reduction of other costs like commuting will help, maybe a better worklife balance all make a low wage more palatable.
But 30-35k in one of the cities, yeah its not going to be a great lifestyle.

Padre_Pio · 04-11-2019 11:58pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Very true, but where are they going to live?

Wherever they can.
There are plenty of cities more overcrowded than Dublin.
So whether than means people commuting from affordable areas to cities, or people living in smaller and smaller accommodation as they get priced out.

It's a sad state of affairs, but nothing new.

Strumms wrote: »

Op if you manage to double your salary in two years good luck to you but in the real world as opposed to in your head that’s going to prove hard.

Depends on the industry and the job.
Get into some MNC, get a nice niche role and you could be set for life.

I started on 24k after college.
Year 2 I was on 32k
Year 4 48k
Year 6 now and I'm up in the 60s.

Most of my colleagues are on something similar. Purely speaking about tech jobs, if you're good and you have a passion the sky's the limit.

mydingaling2 · 05-11-2019 12:02am

HamSarris wrote: »

IT salaries are currently over-valued and will show a regression towards the mean in the next recession (6-18 months) due to the following factors:

The bankruptcy of billon dollar Silicon-Valley companies who can’t show a profit and never will. The only thing keeping these companies afloat are stupid investors who hope their company will be the next Facebook or Amazon and make them a millionaire.

As a consequence, more companies will actually have to work out how to make a profit. This may include reconsidering whether to pay €500 a day to contractors to pretend to be working.

The cull of IT middle management who may have contributed something as a programmer but nothing as a socially inept manager.

An oversupply of IT graduates who believe the propaganda put out by industry that there’s a massive undersupply of graduates and everyone will be on 70k by their 30s.

This doesn’t address the OP’s question but I sense the motive was to talk about how he feels superior to others in an indirect way. If you're think you're sorted financially why would you open a thread about low wages - like a person who owns a house asking about the difficulties of renting.

Man you couldn’t be more wrong, a degree is useless unless you have a genuine interest in it and are technical which is the most important.

The amount of graduates that have been fired before the six months probation is up is probably the highest in any industry. You can generally tell if someone is useless or good after a month or what problem there getting stuck on.

There’s a ton of graduates waiting tables or have given it up all together because

1) there not techinical
2) unwilling to do certs in their spare time to upskill
3) think that jobs will fall into their laps while other graduates have gotten four or five certs in their free time going for jobs

A college degree only teaches you the basics, it’s a life long commitment to get a good job in IT.

Hence why there’s 1600 jobs on Irish jobs at the minute and struggling to fill them as they can’t get good people.

I started on 22k, eight years later getting 77K and I’m not a programmer

Dravokivich · 05-11-2019 12:08am

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

I'm 23, I make 32K as a software engineer, but I live with my parents so I can save a good chunk of money every month. I realize I'm lucky and I'll probably be on 50-70K in 2/3 years, but for people who won't get great raises, how do you live (especially in Dublin)

You dont live. It is impossible. Single parent earning as much as you are now. But my options are limited, by the need to get the kid in and out of childcare, so I have to work nearby. 1/3 of my wages is childcare. So clearly no room for rent or the utilities that would go with living somewhere. I can't even ****ing afford HAP and share a room with my kid in my parents house. I've no disposable income. Money I save at the end of the month, is just money I haven't spent yet.

Ubbquittious · 05-11-2019 12:28am

From what I can tell nearly every software job beyond 50k a year has oddly specific requirements. Cumbersome enterprise software and niche frameworks. I know someone who would have put up a few of those ads, a lot of the time they stay unfilled and being good at writing code won't get you the job. You can be lucky and happen to be familiar with some piece of software on their requirements from a previous job but its far from being a case of learning to code and waltzing into a job.

Even for that very specific guy who meets all the requirements a lot of his knowledge is at risk of becoming "legacy" and he has to chase the next bandwagon to jump on. Then there are companies that put a lot of pressure on coders to meet deadlines and do a lot of extra work for no extra pay.

Man Vs ManUre · 05-11-2019 3:02pm

In IT, as long as your not a contractor, then in the majority the company has to pay you a redundancy package to let you go. It’s not exactly a job for life like a lot of public sector roles, although best case scenario would be an IT job in the public sector!!
It’s not that nice an industry to work in anymore, now it’s all about onshore/offshore service providers, cost cutting, team based roles being replaced by project based roles. Where I work I would say at least 50% of a very large staff number are either managing resources, processes or projects. There is as much admin waste in most private sector IT companies as there is in public sector institutions such as HSE, Social Services etc.

Mr_Muffin · 05-11-2019 4:23pm

It's not hard to hit 50k+ in IT once you have 3 years experience. I'd even go as far to say that you're doing something wrong if you're not earning at least that after 3 years.

How do people live off low wages?

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