How do people live off low wages?

bcklschaps

bcklschaps wrote: »

Not sure if this thread is a wind-up to have a crack at social welfare recipients etc. or if you are soo naive as to actually believe what you have written.

I worked as a Software programmer for 20yrs and still hadn't hit 50k by my mid 40's (and I worked through the Millenium scare when wages went stratospheric) and up until a couple of years ago.... soo good luck with your planned career progression... I think you are being wildly optimistic

Let me guess, you were loyal to your employer who doesn't give a f1ck about you and told you that's all they could pay.

There are Luas drivers or hospital cleaners who would strike if they were on the money you are on after 20 years.

If you are a single income household renting with 2 kids you would do better on social welfare. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/why-families-are-better-off-staying-on-social-welfare-30344889.html

BDI

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone plays football too. Any day now Ronaldo will be on minimum wage.

Haha computer people really do think they are talented but that’s laughable.

Plumbers used to go on like that too. But I’ve never heard one comparing himself to Ronaldo. He is just building a heating system on some site somewhere. Nobody is traveling the world to watch him weld.

Mad_maxx

Mango Joe wrote: »

The secret is to leave school early and never, ever work.

All of the time saved not studying to gain qualifications or working to pay your way can be used to carefully learn the intricacies of the social welfare system inside out.

This knowledge is enough to set you up comfortably to 'day drink' with your friends every day of the week, this will be therapeutic for your carefully manufactured back pain which is keeping you out of the workforce. Also you can swap tips on claims, payments, schemes and strategies.

Then get queuing up for a free house, medical card, and several distinct payment streams for all of your different skill sets - eg disability allowance, carers allowance, various educational allowances and supports for your 7 kids who will either legitimately need them due to the smoking and drinking through pregnancy, malnutrition and advanced neglect, or alternatively you can petition the school until someones stamps a form for you proving they're entitled to this, that and the other.

When your kids are sent to school with no lunch, without books etc the State will set up school lunch schemes/buy them books so you need never stray too far from the alcohol aisle in Tesco.

When you don't bring them along to the free vaccination appointments set up, run and paid for by the State, staffed by hard working people.... Then further interventions will be required to stop pockets of disease from taking hold and killing kids.

Similarly the taxpayer is currently paying for advertising campaigns to educate you on feeding your kid sweets, chocolate, pizza and 5 litres of coke every day - But sure who gives a fu(k, the State will manage the diabetes when that arrives anyhow....

Currently there advertising campaigns run by Regina Doherty basically advertising all of the various classes of social welfare payments you could potentially cash in on if only you knew about them - So they set up a website and paid for radio adverts to try and give away more money to you, have an auld read there with your can of Dutch Gold and suck down another 6 fags while you're at it.

Then just piss about on the streets in your pyjamas with your big scowly knackers head every day proudly.....For you are a self-made citizen of our great State.

We have two children and could not afford another, i remember last year in the final check up before our daughter was born, we were in the lobby area and a tinker woman ( clearly expecting) asked us about our two year old, she was a pleasant enough lady and cheerfully told us she was due her sixth, when we said we were probably done after two, she expressed puzzlement, oh and her eighteen year old daughter was there with her as she herself was pregnant

scamalert

bcklschaps wrote: »

Not sure if this thread is a wind-up to have a crack at social welfare recipients etc. or if you are soo naive as to actually believe what you have written.

I worked as a Software programmer for 20yrs and still hadn't hit 50k by my mid 40's (and I worked through the Millenium scare when wages went stratospheric) and up until a couple of years ago.... soo good luck with your planned career progression... I think you are being wildly optimistic


But to answer the main point of your post ... If you are single and childless (I can't comment on other scenarios) its a pretty grim life on Social Welfare or in low paid work.

On Welfare you don't really qualify for much supports and basic welfare money is phish.

On low paid wages you generally have to break your back in some manual job ... on your days off you are physically re-couperating.

You can forget about living independently... you won't be able to afford anywhere to rent (or if you can, they won't want you in the first place), your social life is a few cans from the Supermarket ...and forget about having a girlfriend (cause you'll be living at home with your parents).

Id say thats very accurate, people do live of min wages, but its usually combined, and most do save. OP strikes as someone who completely misses the saving part, as one could easily save 50-60% while still at home, but if one parts with money easily, and doesnt think about future expect ill be making 6 digits because its the way it should go, i think that's missing reality.

Graces7

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I was replying to another comment.

You cant live on pasta, mushrooms, pasta sauce and porrdige and expect to be healthy, you cant feed a family of 4 or 5 on a bag of pasta and a few jars of pasta sauce every week.
Bread goes off in a couple of days and one loaf will not feed an entire family.
That list of food already costs about 10 euro and its not enough to feed one person.

I think you need to reread the post you quoted as that is not whet the poster said.. he was talking about work lunches. Thus saving on buying lunch out.

BDI

BDI wrote: »

Haha computer people really do think they are talented but that’s laughable.

Plumbers used to go on like that too. But I’ve never heard one comparing himself to Ronaldo. He is just building a heating system on some site somewhere. Nobody is traveling the world to watch him weld.

If you are good enough at programming people will travel the world to hire you and pay you huge money. Or you can develop the next Facebook. Plumbers not so much. Brilliant engineers yes.

For example the guy that developed the interface for the iPhone. How much is he worth (and no it isn't Steve Jobs)?
Or someone who develops something like GTA ?

Most programmers aren't brilliant.

pure.conya

they don't, for the most part they barely exist

Huntergonzo

Live cheap:

1. Shop in Aldi

2. Forgot about pointless expensive brands for clothes and such

3. Don't pay over the odds for any service you don't really need (ie full sky package, excessive phone contract etc)

4. Shop around for the essentials such as car insurance, gas/electricity providers. There are deals to be had, I've changed car insurer every year for the last 4 years and got my rate down from €950 per year to €480 per year (with its4women) and I'm a fella :-)

5. Set up an excel spreadsheet and log your spending every single day, I started doing this 3 years ago and it's been a huge help. Helps you keep track of your spending and cut out unnecessary nonsense.

Lastly while I'd say it's prudent to watch you're spending, don't become a complete miser either, lash out on things you enjoy every now and then, just be sensible about it.

nkl12xtw5goz70

BDI wrote: »

Haha computer people really do think they are talented but that’s laughable.

BDI, you talk broadly about "computer people" as if they all have equivalent skills, when they simply don't.

I know "computer people" making 25k a year in IT support jobs. I also know "computer people" making upward of $500k a year at a quantitative hedge fund.

The more specialized, experienced, and knowledgeable you are, the higher salary you can command.

Mango Joe

Mad_maxx wrote: »

We have two children and could not afford another, i remember last year in the final check up before our daughter was born, we were in the lobby area and a tinker woman ( clearly expecting) asked us about our two year old, she was a pleasant enough lady and cheerfully told us she was due her sixth, when we said we were probably done after two, she expressed puzzlement, oh and her eighteen year old daughter was there with her as she herself was pregnant

Working class, lower class, middle class and upper class are the outdated terms that used to be used to label various groupings within society in an attempt to categorise them as to their means.

In Ireland today there's the wealthy people at the top living very comfortably.

Next is the social welfare class in the middle, also living very comfortably - but arguably with less sun holidays annually.

Meanwhile the really depressing truth is that there is now the new Irish working class who are actually living a grey and grim life like something out of a Dickens novel.

Two hardworking people who earn average incomes in the PAYE system before being expected to give every last cent of it back in income tax, carbon tax on diesel to get to work in the first place, and other miscellaneous and seemingly ever multiplying charges like property tax, PRSI and USC.

Further to this they've to find money for creche fees to pay some, hopefully trustworthy, Strangers to mind the 1 or 2 vulnerable kids max they can afford to have. When they queue to pay in the GPs or Pharmacy they're clearly the only people there without a medical card paying €60-70 per child for the Doctor and the typically over-inflated Irish Pharmacy charges.

There's no curbs on inflation, rocketing insurance premiums not controlled by government policy, VRT on a car they've already paid VAT on, a property market so stilted that they're expected to pay €600,000 over 45 years at the highest mortgage interest rates in Europe for a shoebox house with paper-thin, possibly crumbling walls, after living with their parents for 20 years trying in vain to save for a deposit.

They're even expected to fill envelopes monthly with cash donations to provide light and heat in a supposedly State funded School via so-called voluntary contributions.

Our elected politicians gleefully take the tax revenue generated off the broken backs of these people and use it to pay their own massive unjust salaries, made-up expenses and grossly generous pension pots.

Any remaining money it then fed into the social welfare system - If you want proof of this then just look at the state of our schools, hospitals, Garda resourcing, abysmal public transport etc.

When John and Mary attempt to retire at 65 years of age? Ha ha! You pricks! its 68 now!! - We want more of the lifeforce drained out of your already shrivelled husks before we let you rest, back-broken with the 1-2 years of good health and happiness you have remaining to you.

Sadly the above is just a token attempt at categorising all of this - I'm too depressed to continue to be honest.....

redarmyblues

Another I'm great, I am thread, there's plenty that thought they would never see a hungry day and ended up on their uppers, so young, so many hubris, the OP is a cert to end up like Ayn Rand dying in poverty, living on the government payments she professed to despise, poetic justice.

Cyrus

Mango Joe wrote: »

Working class, lower class, middle class and upper class are the outdated terms that used to be used to label various groupings within society in an attempt to categorise them as to their means.

In Ireland today there's the wealthy people at the top living very comfortably.

Next is the social welfare class in the middle, also living very comfortably - but arguably with less sun holidays annually.

Meanwhile the really depressing truth is that there is now the new Irish working class who are actually living a grey and grim life like something out of a Dickens novel.

Two hardworking people who earn average incomes in the PAYE system before being expected to give every last cent of it back in income tax, carbon tax on diesel to get to work in the first place, and other miscellaneous and seemingly ever multiplying charges like property tax, PRSI and USC.

Further to this they've to find money for creche fees to pay some, hopefully trustworthy, Strangers to mind the 1 or 2 vulnerable kids max they can afford to have.

There's no curbs on inflation, rocketing insurance premiums not controlled by government policy, VRT on a car they've already paid VAT on, a property market so stilted that they're expected to pay €600,000 over 45 years at the highest mortgage interest rates in Europe for a shoebox house with paper-thin, possibly crumbling walls, after living with their parents for 20 years trying in vain to save for a deposit.

They're even expected to fill envelopes monthly with cash donations to provide light and heat in a supposedly State funded School via so-called voluntary contributions.

Our elected politicians gleefully take the tax revenue generated off the broken backs of these people and use it to pay their own massive unjust salaries, made-up expenses and grossly generous pension pots.

Any remaining money it then fed into the social welfare system - If you want proof of this then just look at the state of our schools, hospitals, Garda resourcing, abysmal public transport etc.

When John and Mary attempt to retire at 65 years of age? Ha ha! You pricks! its 68 now!! - We want more of the lifeforce drained out of your already shrivelled husks before we let you rest, back-broken with the 1-2 years of good health and happiness you have remaining to you.

Sadly the above is just a token attempt at categorising all of this - I'm too depressed to continue to be honest.....

thats massively over exaggerated.

take the tax point, average salary in ireland is in or around 40k, the effective tax rate on that is circa 21.5%.

BDI

Amiya Cool Mailman wrote: »

BDI, you talk broadly about "computer people" as if they all have equivalent skills, when they simply don't.

I know "computer people" making 25k a year in IT support jobs. I also know "computer people" making upward of $500k a year at a quantitative hedge fund.

The more specialized, experienced, and knowledgeable you are, the higher salary you can command.

Yes the ones on 25 k are the ones in year one and the ones in year 10 are the ones on 500k isn’t that how it works?

What’s all this nonsense about luck life and success. Year one 25k year 2 38k year 3 50 k year 4 90k

Year 5 work from home on half a mill a year.
That’s how computer degrees work.
Only the ones who don’t do an hour once a week upskilling arnt on this money.

Mango Joe

Cyrus wrote: »

thats massively over exaggerated.

take the tax point, average salary in ireland is in or around 40k, the effective tax rate on that is circa 21.5%.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but selectively taking choice parts of my post in isolation like that while ignoring the intended point I was trying to make is wholly disingenuous.

I'm not sure why you'd even bother to be honest - I firmly believe that a lot of people on here will very clearly identify with what I wrote because they are living it daily.

*** Out of curiosity I had a very quick look at your posting history Cyrus.... Lets just say your stance here just shows your average form & I'm really, really not interested in arguing at your level ***

Padre_Pio

Mango Joe wrote: »

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but selectively taking choice parts of my post in isolation like that while ignoring the intended point I was trying to make is wholly disingenuous.

I'm not sure why you'd even bother to be honest - I firmly believe that a lot of people on here will very clearly identify with what I wrote because they are living it daily.

*** Out of curiosity I had a very quick look at your posting history Cyrus.... Lets just say your stance here just shows your average form & I'm really, really not interested in arguing at your level ***

Your post is full of exaggerations and half truths.

The social welfare class is not living comfortably. No way. A single man on welfare is getting his 190 a week and probably living at home. No hope of getting a housing list, no hope of additional benefits except training and college placement maybe.

Women fare better, provided they have kids and plenty of them. There are hotels up and down the country filled with families living in a single room. I'd take a wage slave job any day over that.

Regarding PAYE workers, yes that's the sad truth for a minority of people who happen to live in cities right at this moment in time. 10 years ago you couldn't give a house away. Now it's flipped and in 10 years it could be the opposite again.

facehugger99

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

How?
A tenner a day is still 70 euro a week. A family of 4 would be spending 280 on shopping a week, thats ore than allot of families can afford.
Its very difficult to stay healthy on a small budget.

A family of 4 can eat like kings for €150 a week and not go near a processed meal.

It's very easy to stay healthy on a small budget.

nthclare

Cyrus wrote: »

thats massively over exaggerated.

take the tax point, average salary in ireland is in or around 40k, the effective tax rate on that is circa 21.5%.

It should be around 5%

Zascar

Regarding the IT salaries - just have alook at the Brightwater Salary Survey which clearly shows the OP is not wrong:
https://cdn.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2019/information-technology.pdf?sfvrsn=fa518376_0 - Also careers in Sales, Pharma, Banking etc these salaries and 100k+ are not unusual: https://www.brightwater.ie/surveys/salary-survey

Re tax, don't forget, a married couple people on 35k each brings home the same as one single person on 100k - tax at upper levels is insane.

How anyone on 30k etc can buy a house in Dublin is beyond me - saving the deposit along is extremely difficult. Fair play to anyone who does - you must have a life with almost nio luxuries at all. When people do out budgets of how to live on it it looks fine but what happens with unexpected bills or necessary spend? Can't be easy. Then again the amount of people who have never really tried to grow their careers and incomes beyond the average rate also surprises me. It's really not that difficult there are plenty of avenues.

Wibbs

facehugger99 wrote: »

A family of 4 can eat like kings for €150 a week and not go near a processed meal.

It's very easy to stay healthy on a small budget.

+1000. If they avoid processed sh1te and takeaways and the like. Many don't.

Twister2

Food can be a double-edged sword

People on less money can cook good meals and eat well

People on big money may not be eating as good

Mad_maxx

Mango Joe wrote: »

Working class, lower class, middle class and upper class are the outdated terms that used to be used to label various groupings within society in an attempt to categorise them as to their means.

In Ireland today there's the wealthy people at the top living very comfortably.

Next is the social welfare class in the middle, also living very comfortably - but arguably with less sun holidays annually.

Meanwhile the really depressing truth is that there is now the new Irish working class who are actually living a grey and grim life like something out of a Dickens novel.

Two hardworking people who earn average incomes in the PAYE system before being expected to give every last cent of it back in income tax, carbon tax on diesel to get to work in the first place, and other miscellaneous and seemingly ever multiplying charges like property tax, PRSI and USC.

Further to this they've to find money for creche fees to pay some, hopefully trustworthy, Strangers to mind the 1 or 2 vulnerable kids max they can afford to have. When they queue to pay in the GPs or Pharmacy they're clearly the only people there without a medical card paying €60-70 per child for the Doctor and the typically over-inflated Irish Pharmacy charges.

There's no curbs on inflation, rocketing insurance premiums not controlled by government policy, VRT on a car they've already paid VAT on, a property market so stilted that they're expected to pay €600,000 over 45 years at the highest mortgage interest rates in Europe for a shoebox house with paper-thin, possibly crumbling walls, after living with their parents for 20 years trying in vain to save for a deposit.

They're even expected to fill envelopes monthly with cash donations to provide light and heat in a supposedly State funded School via so-called voluntary contributions.

Our elected politicians gleefully take the tax revenue generated off the broken backs of these people and use it to pay their own massive unjust salaries, made-up expenses and grossly generous pension pots.

Any remaining money it then fed into the social welfare system - If you want proof of this then just look at the state of our schools, hospitals, Garda resourcing, abysmal public transport etc.

When John and Mary attempt to retire at 65 years of age? Ha ha! You pricks! its 68 now!! - We want more of the lifeforce drained out of your already shrivelled husks before we let you rest, back-broken with the 1-2 years of good health and happiness you have remaining to you.

Sadly the above is just a token attempt at categorising all of this - I'm too depressed to continue to be honest.....

The very wealthy always have the ear of power, the welfare class have both the media ( witnesses the championing of Margaret Cash and the apoplectic reaction of the media to what Peter casey said) and a huge poverty industry in QUANGO land to lobby on their behalf

Middle Ireland have nobody and are treated with disdain by both media and government

Hector Savage

Mad_maxx wrote: »

We have two children and could not afford another, i remember last year in the final check up before our daughter was born, we were in the lobby area and a tinker woman ( clearly expecting) asked us about our two year old, she was a pleasant enough lady and cheerfully told us she was due her sixth, when we said we were probably done after two, she expressed puzzlement, oh and her eighteen year old daughter was there with her as she herself was pregnant

obscene.

Graces7

Cyrus wrote: »

thats massively over exaggerated.

take the tax point, average salary in ireland is in or around 40k, the effective tax rate on that is circa 21.5%.

He clearly has not read Dickens either..

Graces7

Hector Savage wrote: »

obscene.

In what way?

skinny90

BDI wrote: »

Yes the ones on 25 k are the ones in year one and the ones in year 10 are the ones on 500k isn’t that how it works?

What’s all this nonsense about luck life and success. Year one 25k year 2 38k year 3 50 k year 4 90k

Year 5 work from home on half a mill a year.
That’s how computer degrees work.
Only the ones who don’t do an hour once a week upskilling arnt on this money.

Are you serious?

gibgodsman

We don't have lives, I am on only 21k, went through 4 years of college for it, no sign of a raise even though I am 12 months in the job and came in on poor salary to prove myself during the probation period, and since I am basically running the place now, I am guessing I proved myself.

Lack of any real opportunities outside of Dublin doesn't help either. I am done travelling to and from and having absolutely no time being able to spend my salary.

Engaged, shes literally on just as much as me so we make it work, off to Paris Saturday for our first Holiday, about 10k in the bank in savings for our wedding, were getting there, but its not easy

Johnny Sausage

Graces7 wrote: »

In what way?

that they churn out babies for benefits

Wanderer78

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

that they churn out babies for benefits

Who d employ them?

Wibbs

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

that they churn out babies for benefits

or more J, they can churn out babies because of a benefit setup that was meant for those in genuine need. And I've known a few cases of those in genuine need not get help because they weren't the right demographic and felt shame at having to have their hand out.

Mad_maxx

Graces7 wrote: »

In what way?

That tinkers can better afford kids than the average family