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Journalism and cycling

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    #8912
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    Grassey wrote: »
    40 MINUTE delays on M50 as cyclist frustrates drivers near Airport



    So he headline implies that a cyclist is frustrating drivers and causing a 40 minute delay, whereas in reality it seems they were frustrated by a cyclist on the hard shoulder while they were stuck in a 40 min tailback caused by a crash that had nothing to do with cyclists at all...

    Cyclist on a motorway.....


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    #8913
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    HorrorScope wrote: »
    Cyclist on a motorway.....

    You can't cure stupid, but cycling on a motorway is one way to solve it :eek:


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    #8914
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    buffalo wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/boy-struck-by-truck-was-taking-shortcut-across-junction-coroner-s-court-told-1.4081911

    I'm trying to make sense of this story - was the driver mentioned (Derek O'Donnell) the driver of the truck that killed Elrich, or a witness?

    I know not all the relevant information makes it into the media, but it's bizarre that 75kph in a 50 zone coupled with the apparent driver's decision to beep the horn rather than hit the brakes did not lead to any sort of prosecution.


    edit: not directly cycling related

    The driver of the truck was Derek O'Donnell, the witness was Neil Cosgrave.


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    #8915
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Grassey wrote: »
    40 MINUTE delays on M50 as cyclist frustrates drivers near Airport



    So he headline implies that a cyclist is frustrating drivers and causing a 40 minute delay, whereas in reality it seems they were frustrated by a cyclist on the hard shoulder while they were stuck in a 40 min tailback caused by a crash that had nothing to do with cyclists at all...
    that's dublinlive.ie, a media outlet long on self promotion and short on anything of merit.


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    #8916
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    what_traffic wrote: »
    .
    ..
    He was taking a shortcut across the junction instead of following the pedestrian route, which required him to cross 12 lanes of traffic. The pedestrian route has since been shortened, Dublin Coroner’s Court heard.

    “The pedestrian crossing at the time was quite convoluted,” Coroner Dr Myra Cullinane said.
    .
    ..
    Coroner Dr Myra Cullinane returned a verdict of accidental death.

    “The layout has now changed in order that it be safer for pedestrians and there be no temptation to take the shortest route as Elrich did that morning,” Dr Cullinane said.

    So driver admits seeing him, admits he didn't slow, and pretty much done everything wrong but somehow his speed (50% over the limit) was not a factor, his not braking isn't really mentioned. How the f*CK could a Garda make that call. Christ on a bike, even the difference in braking distances would have been a significant factor. That poor boys parents, and not one person will learn a thing. That is actually upsetting.


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    #8917
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    at 50km/h, there would have been a chance - slim enough - of survival. at 75km/h, i think that disappears.


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    #8918
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    From a quick perusal yesterday, the indo did seem to have multiple articles that were relatively cyclist friendly.

    They've been bought by a Belgian news company who are one of the biggest sponsors of Cyclocross in the world. I'm hoping for way more pedal positive pieces from this rag and less of the usual shyte...


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    #8919
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i did hear a comment in relation to that takeover that the previous owners had indulged a little in a race to the bottom, and it's easier to slide down than it is to crawl back up. but maybe the new owners are willing to try.


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    #8920
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,931 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    That is amazing if true.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



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    #8921
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Interesting read I happened across

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948/what-happened-when-oslo-decided-to-make-its-downtown-basically-car-free

    A useful read for Mannix Flynn and others bleating about the effects of cyclists not being able to buy flat screen TVs and fridges.


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    #8922
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    CramCycle wrote: »
    So driver admits seeing him, admits he didn't slow, and pretty much done everything wrong but somehow his speed (50% over the limit) was not a factor, his not braking isn't really mentioned. How the f*CK could a Garda make that call. Christ on a bike, even the difference in braking distances would have been a significant factor. That poor boys parents, and not one person will learn a thing. That is actually upsetting.

    Far too much weight is given in Coroners Court to non experts. Garda statement is plain daft + Coroner's language is weird


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    #8923
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    I've said it before, but Coroners court hearings for traffic accidents are a joke - they just read like a littany of justifications aimed at relieving the driver from being held accountable from any of the responsibility to which he/she is supposed to be accountable.

    As a result, they're a stupid box-ticking exercise where nothing is ever learned.


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    #8924
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    Another interesting titbit about the Coroner's Court is that (AFAIK) the investigating Garda is in charge of assembling the jury for the court hearing.


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    #8925
    hesker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭hesker


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Interesting read I happened across

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948/what-happened-when-oslo-decided-to-make-its-downtown-basically-car-free

    A useful read for Mannix Flynn and others bleating about the effects of cyclists not being able to buy flat screen TVs and fridges.

    Thanks for that. Refreshing to read. If only our media outlets would repost that it might get people to think differently. But that would not be consistent with the agenda of their funding sources I suppose


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    #8926
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that ties with a story i heard from a relative being pressganged by a garda they knew, into being on a jury in the coroner's court.


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    #8927
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Duckjob wrote: »
    I've said it before, but Coroners court hearings for traffic accidents are a joke - they just read like a littany of justifications aimed at relieving the driver from being held accountable from any of the responsibility to which he/she is supposed to be accountable.

    As a result, they're a stupid box-ticking exercise where nothing is ever learned.

    The coroner in any contentious inquest will always remind those present that the function of the inquest is not to apportion blame. Often this is what a family or loved one is seeking but the function of the court is to determine the how where when and who died, and what lessons can be learned. I know of several cases where juries made recommendations that were later put into place by local authorities.

    If someone is to be prosecuted, then a Garda inspector or higher rank seeks an adjournment of the inquest til the prosecution is finished or no prosecution is directed. It’s not for the coroner and jury to blame anyone.

    What we are missing in this article is that a Garda forensic collision investigator would’ve compiled a detailed 40 page+ report on the collision. This is presumably what the garda is basing his assertion of speed not being a factor. It’s not just something he arrived at without being able to back it up.


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    #8928
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    that ties with a story i heard from a relative being pressganged by a garda they knew, into being on a jury in the coroner's court.

    Yeah it’s a bizarre scenario. Should be outsourced to the courts service but it’s something the coroners registrar instructs the presenting Garda to organise. Also that jury will sit for all the inquests being heard that day and not just the one like in a criminal trial


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    #8929
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    CramCycle wrote: »
    INdeed but it doesn't happen, in my partners workplace, several colleagues have been caught at north of 150kmph and they do brag about the points?!?

    Well, it's official about widespread casual speeding:

    car-news/were-ignoring-the-speed-limit-everywhere-we-drive-survey-


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    #8930
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    What we are missing in this article is that a Garda forensic collision investigator would’ve compiled a detailed 40 page+ report on the collision. This is presumably what the garda is basing his assertion of speed not being a factor. It’s not just something he arrived at without being able to back it up.

    The Garda said speed was not a causative factor, but of what, the childs death or the accident, many will read that as not to blame but all that technically means is that it was not the cause of the accident. reading the little we have, poor judgement by the motorist was, it may not have stopped the accident but it could have changed or alleviated the outcome or peoples reactions to it in the heat of the moment.

    Would he have been more likely to brake if going slower, would the horn have given the child more time if he was going slower.

    We don't have the technical assessment, was he driving at 75kmph when he hit, as in was he faster than this before the collision, why was he not at 50kmph in the first place. I have no issue with him blasting the horn but maybe if he had braked and hit the horn, we would simply be looking at an insurance case rather than a coroners court.


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    #8931
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Another interesting titbit about the Coroner's Court is that (AFAIK) the investigating Garda is in charge of assembling the jury for the court hearing.

    In my time, in a large provincial town, it was the Sgt i/c of the station. It would not be uncommon to have a retired Garda or two on the jury.

    I hate it, when Road Traffic Collisions are referred to as Accidents.


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    #8932
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Well, it's official about widespread casual speeding:

    car-news/were-ignoring-the-speed-limit-everywhere-we-drive-survey-

    Don't even have to go that far:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057488458&page=11

    One poster claims to have travelled at 155mph (just shy of 250kph in new money) in Limerick, next poster gives him a clap on the back.


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    #8933
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/roslyn-dee-i-didnt-have-a-clue-how-vulnerable-you-can-feel-on-a-bike-on-our-carinfested-roads-38691232.html

    Well I'll be damned, a pro cycling article in the independent.


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    #8934
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Fian


    been a few lately tbh. That one starts poorly and then switches tack.


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    #8935
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Following his recent tweet giving out about cyclists, Sen Craughwell has accepted an offer to cycle within the city to see firsthand what cyclists see every day

    It will be interesting to see what he has to say afterwards.
    https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1195125183884996609


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    #8936
    mollser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭mollser


    All drivers should be forced to watch the episode of 24 hours in a&e that was broadcast on more 4 on Monday night. Not sure exactly what happened but there was a head on collision between a bike and a car. The guy was mangled, surgeons did an unbelievable job but it did show just how vulnerable a cyclist is.

    Cheers


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    #8937
    flatface
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭flatface


    —


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    #8938
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    For those keeping an eye on the Sen Craughwell cycle...
    https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1195341014195691520


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    #8939
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    For those keeping an eye on the Sen Craughwell cycle...
    https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1195341014195691520

    Fair play to him, love that his post is just the experience most of have every day in Dublin, not overly pessimistic or under playing anything, just that delivery vans are a double edged sword.


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    #8940
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Good picture of him with the bike too, dressed like any other man going about his business in town and no sign of a hi vis vest.

    I'd love to think he might inspire a few other men and women his age or any age for that matter to think about getting up on a bike again.


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    #8941
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,931 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Good picture of him with the bike too, dressed like any other man going about his business in town and no sign of a hi vis vest.

    I think I saw something in the Twitter comments with someone giving out to him and him capitulating though :(

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



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