Journalism and cycling

Eamonnator · 12-11-2019 11:35pm

Duckjob wrote: »

I think it's that lack of self awareness where people project and see in others what they are/do themselves - sort of like how every personal insult Trump throws at other people pretty much applies perfectly to him.

great analogy

Breezer · 12-11-2019 11:40pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Can never understand the hate for cyclists and red lights. The red light breaking by motorists - certainly in Dublin - is laughable. 3,4 or 5 through a red not unusual - double that of there’s two lanes. If Ireland was this kind of traffic utopia I could understand the hate, but motorists are pretty much out of control from what I can see.

I don't honestly think motorists see the red light jumping by other motorists when they're behind the wheel of a car. Possibly because they'd need to be towards the top of the queue? Whereas they can see cyclists who break lights cycling past them and then disappearing? Just a theory. But I've had conversations with very reasonable people who drive but don't cycle, who will tell me they rarely see car drivers breaking red lights, but they see "most" cyclists doing this

eeeee · 13-11-2019 12:06am

Breezer wrote: »

I don't honestly think motorists see the red light jumping by other motorists when they're behind the wheel of a car. Possibly because they'd need to be towards the top of the queue? Whereas they can see cyclists who break lights cycling past them and then disappearing? Just a theory. But I've had conversations with very reasonable people who drive but don't cycle, who will tell me they rarely see car drivers breaking red lights, but they see "most" cyclists doing this

I think this is exactly it. As a cyclist you are almost always at the top of every junction due to filtering, and we see cars breaking lights at almost every one. But the majority of cars are well back from a junction and don't see the cars running through, they just roll up to the back of the car in front, and see cyclists filtering to their left.

I think it's that, combined by the misery and frustration of sitting in their mainly empty car full of entitlement that they should be progressing way faster and easier than they are. They do not identify the other mainly empty cars as an issue, and are soothed in their entitled and righteous anger by the media, who find this frustration a lucrative vein to tap into for engagement and therefore money.

magicbastarder · 13-11-2019 8:50am

Thousands of duck eggs destroyed because birds ‘posed threat to cyclists’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/duck-eggs-mallard-cyclist-natural-england-destroy-bedfordshire-a9198886.html

Seth Brundle · 13-11-2019 9:57am

Following his recent tweet giving out about cyclists, Sen Craughwell has accepted an offer to cycle within the city to see firsthand what cyclists see every day
https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1193831532852662277

Credit to him,he is thinking of cycling along the quays and possibly up past Leinster house.

https://twitter.com/IBIKEDublin/status/1194345360379932672

https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1194352829504339968

It will be interesting to see what he has to say afterwards.

hesker · 13-11-2019 10:12am

I’m guessing he will say something like...he was terrified.....it’s not safe....and therefore there is no place for cyclists on our roads

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 10:26am

My bet is "I had no problem stopping at traffic lights, staying in the cycle lane & obeying the rules. Why can't they all be like that?"

Pinch Flat · 13-11-2019 10:34am

Make sure you send him through the Phoenix park to Park Gate Street - lots of red light breaking motorists coming from Chapelizod and down the hill lat the criminal courts. He'll also enjoy jostling with private motorists in the bus / cycle lane along the quays who couldn't be arsed joining the mayhem to their right. And the bridge at the four courts is a favourite for quick red light breaking by motorists coming from your right. Turning right on D'Olier Street, he'll enjoy navigating the wall of buses that make cycling here almost impossible. Let's see how he gets on....

Fian · 13-11-2019 10:38am

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's the equivalent (though obviously less serious) of pat kenny saying 'up next, we discuss a new law to help women who are the victims of violence' and someone like craughwell piping up and saying 'but i saw a woman hit a man once!'

That is a really good analogy that I fully intend to steal and deploy whenever I hear whataboutery like this in person. As regards it not being more serious It would be intersting to compare the number of cyclists killed by motorists annually relative to women killed as a result of domestic violence, I have no idea what the relative statistics with regard to injuries are.

Less emotive and less morally culpable of course, given that one set of harm is accidental and the other is malicious. anyway even measuring is just more whataboutery I suppose the important thing is the the logic that would make the domestic violence statement indefensible applies equally if less emotively to the cyclist red herrings when road traffic measures are introduced.

Tenzor07 · 13-11-2019 10:40am

Another great article by Cian Ginty:

https://irishcycle.com/2019/11/13/quid-pro-quos-have-no-place-in-road-safety-debate/

The logical conclusion to this is like saying: “I won’t knock you down if you don’t break the law” — I cannot believe I have to spell this out, but there’s huge legal as well as moral issues with this line of thinking. Another position which is hardly better is “cyclists endanger me when I walk around, so, why are they getting protection”.

Macy0161 · 13-11-2019 11:11am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

If Ireland was this kind of traffic utopia I could understand the hate, but motorists are pretty much out of control from what I can see.

Speeding is so endemic, that it's socially acceptable to bleat about "shooting fish in a barrel" or how "the speed limits are too low" with no one batting an eyelid.

eeeee wrote: »

But the majority of cars are well back from a junction and don't see the cars running through, they just roll up to the back of the car in front, and see cyclists filtering to their left.

Too busy checking their phones...

CramCycle · 13-11-2019 11:20am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Speeding is so endemic, that it's socially acceptable to bleat about "shooting fish in a barrel" or how "the speed limits are too low" with no one batting an eyelid.

Part of my job is H&S and reviewing incidents. Somehow it came up in the latest chat about speeding. The guy was talking about how his friend, a nurse, described speeding motorcyclists as eyeball donors as that was all that was not destroyed. He then went on to tell me about getting a speeding ticket for doing 180km/hr on the motorway. The person beside him as we were talking mentioned that was lunacy but that they got popped at 150km/hr. We chatted for a few minutes and they all agreed that even the slightest error would result in their immediate deaths. Weirdly, they seemed OK with this as they talked some more and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't suffer as they wouldn't survive.

I have no words.

Stark · 13-11-2019 11:33am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Make sure you send him through the Phoenix park to Park Gate Street - lots of red light breaking motorists coming from Chapelizod and down the hill lat the criminal courts. He'll also enjoy jostling with private motorists in the bus / cycle lane along the quays who couldn't be arsed joining the mayhem to their right. And the bridge at the four courts is a favourite for quick red light breaking by motorists coming from your right. Turning right on D'Olier Street, he'll enjoy navigating the wall of buses that make cycling here almost impossible. Let's see how he gets on....

Or along Chapelizod road onto Conyngham road. First enjoy the broken glass along the off-road cycle lane (which is still much better than most off-road cycle lanes in Dublin despite of it), then nearly get taken out of it by motorists exiting Islandbridge gate without looking to their right as you rejoin the road. Then enjoy the tailback of private motorists in the bus lane all the way back to the lights once you pass the lights.

Stark · 13-11-2019 11:36am

CramCycle wrote: »

Part of my job is H&S and reviewing incidents. Somehow it came up in the latest chat about speeding. The guy was talking about how his friend, a nurse, described speeding motorcyclists as eyeball donors as that was all that was not destroyed. He then went on to tell me about getting a speeding ticket for doing 180km/hr on the motorway. The person beside him as we were talking mentioned that was lunacy but that they got popped at 150km/hr. We chatted for a few minutes and they all agreed that even the slightest error would result in their immediate deaths. Weirdly, they seemed OK with this as they talked some more and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't suffer as they wouldn't survive.

I have no words.

I'm reminded of a Bart Simpson quote "at least if I die, I'll take a lot of innocent people with me".

De Bhál · 13-11-2019 11:40am

CramCycle wrote: »

Part of my job is H&S and reviewing incidents. Somehow it came up in the latest chat about speeding. The guy was talking about how his friend, a nurse, described speeding motorcyclists as eyeball donors as that was all that was not destroyed. He then went on to tell me about getting a speeding ticket for doing 180km/hr on the motorway. The person beside him as we were talking mentioned that was lunacy but that they got popped at 150km/hr. We chatted for a few minutes and they all agreed that even the slightest error would result in their immediate deaths. Weirdly, they seemed OK with this as they talked some more and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't suffer as they wouldn't survive.

I have no words.

should be getting a couple of months driving ban for going 180 on a motorway.

Tenzor07 · 13-11-2019 11:50am

CramCycle wrote: »

Part of my job is H&S and reviewing incidents. Somehow it came up in the latest chat about speeding.
He then went on to tell me about getting a speeding ticket for doing 180km/hr on the motorway.
The person beside him as we were talking mentioned that was lunacy but that they got popped at 150km/hr.

I'm surprised people admit to driving over 100mph or close to. I hope they said this in a tone that made you think they were ashamed about it?

And why they would mention it in the workplace either is surprising as in a lot of workplaces where employees have the use of or are required to drive company vehicles then it could lead to a reprimand by H.R.

Saw this in a UK news article:

Drivers caught speeding at over 100mph are referred to Court, where magistrates have the discretion to issue a driving ban or 6 penalty points on a driver’s licence. The maximum fine for serious speeding offences is £1000, rising to £2500 if caught on a motorway.

Road safety charity, Brake, are concerned about the number of drivers caught traveling at more than 100mph. Stopping distances at speeds over 100mph are more than 182m, the equivalent of about 45 car lengths, or nearly two football pitches. Brake want to see drivers automatically banned if caught traveling at over 100mph

adrian522 · 13-11-2019 12:33pm

Editorial in the Independent:

'Cyclists deserve to be safe on the road to nowhere'

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-cyclists-deserve-to-be-safe-on-the-road-to-nowhere-38683701.html

Utter Consternation · 13-11-2019 12:58pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Editorial in the Independent:

'Cyclists deserve to be safe on the road to nowhere'

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-cyclists-deserve-to-be-safe-on-the-road-to-nowhere-38683701.html

From a quick perusal yesterday, the indo did seem to have multiple articles that were relatively cyclist friendly.

hollypink · 13-11-2019 1:38pm

After the piece on Pat Kenny about cyclists on Monday, a senator tweeted about seeing cyclists breaking the lights. He was challenged to accompany a cyclist on a cycle around Dublin city centre to see it from a cyclist's perspective, and to his credit (he is in his sixties and doesnt own a bike so it must be a long time since he cycled), he agreed. I hope it happens and maybe changes the way he views cyclists.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1194337092081508352

(Although I didnt like the way he asked to be provided with a bike, helmet and camera, it sounded more like a demand than a request and he could have sorted that himself)

micar · 13-11-2019 3:13pm

hollypink wrote: »

After the piece on Pat Kenny about cyclists on Monday, a senator tweeted about seeing cyclists breaking the lights. He was challenged to accompany a cyclist on a cycle around Dublin city centre to see it from a cyclist's perspective, and to his credit (he is in his sixties and doesnt own a bike so it must be a long time since he cycled), he agreed. I hope it happens and maybe changes the way he views cyclists.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1194337092081508352

(Although I didnt like the way he asked to be provided with a bike, helmet and camera, it sounded more like a demand than a request and he could have sorted that himself)

It was me who tweeted him.

hollypink · 13-11-2019 3:42pm

micar wrote: »

It was me who tweeted him.

Fair play to you. I don't cycle much since I moved out of Dublin but my OH often heads off for a long spin on a Sat or Sun and sometimes I'm a little uneasy about his safety.

De Bhál · 13-11-2019 4:12pm

hollypink wrote: »

After the piece on Pat Kenny about cyclists on Monday, a senator tweeted about seeing cyclists breaking the lights. He was challenged to accompany a cyclist on a cycle around Dublin city centre to see it from a cyclist's perspective, and to his credit (he is in his sixties and doesnt own a bike so it must be a long time since he cycled), he agreed. I hope it happens and maybe changes the way he views cyclists.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1194337092081508352

(Although I didnt like the way he asked to be provided with a bike, helmet and camera, it sounded more like a demand than a request and he could have sorted that himself)

why'd he want a camera?

this should be interesting as this lad maybe hasn't cycled in 40years

mr spuckler · 13-11-2019 4:24pm

De Bhál wrote: »

why'd he want a camera?

this should be interesting as this lad maybe hasn't cycled in 40years

He said himself he hasn't cycled in that long. He said he asked for the camera as he assumed this should / would be recorded. Pretty sure micar said he already has one so that bit is covered.

CramCycle · 13-11-2019 4:35pm

De Bh111756562 wrote:

should be getting a couple of months driving ban for going 180 on a motorway.

INdeed but it doesn't happen, in my partners workplace, several colleagues have been caught at north of 150kmph and they do brag about the points?!?

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm surprised people admit to driving over 100mph or close to. I hope they said this in a tone that made you think they were ashamed about it?

He sounded like it doesn't happen now but the view of not doing it again was because they got caught, not because they were in the wrong or dangerous.n This is why enforcement is important because some people will never learn.

]And why they would mention it in the workplace either is surprising as in a lot of workplaces where employees have the use of or are required to drive company vehicles then it could lead to a reprimand by H.R.

Indeed, people are weird. I am one of the few in my place that drives for work but even if I didn't, I would not be bragging about that behaviour to anyone. They don't drive work vehicles but they would be driving between two workplaces, and I would consider it driving for work as they are going to meetings down the country.

mr spuckler wrote: »

He said himself he hasn't cycled in that long. He said he asked for the camera as he assumed this should / would be recorded. Pretty sure micar said he already has one so that bit is covered.

I offered him my camera and a set of lights if he wanted as well. I left the Hi Vis bit out

micar · 13-11-2019 5:51pm

De Bh111759249 wrote:

why'd he want a camera?

this should be interesting as this lad maybe hasn't cycled in 40years

I do wonder that. I tweeted him purely to get him to experience cycling in the city.

mr spuckler wrote: »

He said himself he hasn't cycled in that long. He said he asked for the camera as he assumed this should / would be recorded. Pretty sure micar said he already has one so that bit is covered.

I would be worried about him wobbling all over the place and bring a danger to himself.

I do have a camera.

Stark · 13-11-2019 5:58pm

I sometimes wonder if the wobbly ones are safer than the rest of us. They're moving much more slowly and tend to be spotted a mile away and given a wide berth.

Breezer · 13-11-2019 6:44pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm surprised people admit to driving over 100mph or close to. I hope they said this in a tone that made you think they were ashamed about it?

You don't have to look too far to find people going apoplectic at the notion of not being able to do 160km/h (100mph) on a motorway. The motors forum here is full of this (at least it was a few years ago when I frequented the place).

In fairness, the general wisdom was that motorways were engineered for this speed, and should be used as such, whereas doing more than 50km/h in a 50 zone, or doing the 80km/h allowed on some rural roads was madness. A fair point, but this then led to a general conclusion that speed limits are best ignored and it's far better to drive in a "safe manner," which was left to each driver's own discretion.

buffalo · 13-11-2019 7:30pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/boy-struck-by-truck-was-taking-shortcut-across-junction-coroner-s-court-told-1.4081911

I'm trying to make sense of this story - was the driver mentioned (Derek O'Donnell) the driver of the truck that killed Elrich, or a witness?

I know not all the relevant information makes it into the media, but it's bizarre that 75kph in a 50 zone coupled with the apparent driver's decision to beep the horn rather than hit the brakes did not lead to any sort of prosecution.

edit: not directly cycling related

what_traffic · 13-11-2019 8:43pm

buffalo wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/boy-struck-by-truck-was-taking-shortcut-across-junction-coroner-s-court-told-1.4081911
.
..

edit: not directly cycling related

.
..
He was taking a shortcut across the junction instead of following the pedestrian route, which required him to cross 12 lanes of traffic. The pedestrian route has since been shortened, Dublin Coroner’s Court heard.

“The pedestrian crossing at the time was quite convoluted,” Coroner Dr Myra Cullinane said.
.
..
Coroner Dr Myra Cullinane returned a verdict of accidental death.

“The layout has now changed in order that it be safer for pedestrians and there be no temptation to take the shortest route as Elrich did that morning,” Dr Cullinane said.

Grassey · 13-11-2019 9:35pm

40 MINUTE delays on M50 as cyclist frustrates drivers near Airport

a crash has just been cleared from the M1/M50 interchange which is causing as much as up to 40 minutes of a delay.

So he headline implies that a cyclist is frustrating drivers and causing a 40 minute delay, whereas in reality it seems they were frustrated by a cyclist on the hard shoulder while they were stuck in a 40 min tailback caused by a crash that had nothing to do with cyclists at all...

Journalism and cycling

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