Overtaking; who is in the right?

Dakota Dan · 14-08-2018 7:31pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Car A is at fault.

I drive country roads where there are only a couple of overtaking places. I know the roads and where is safe to overtake.

What can happen to muddy the waters is me in car B driving along, come up behind a tractor and Car A doing 50kph. Approaching my usual overtaking spot, I slow to leave some distance to build speed on my side of the road for a quick and safe overtake.

Come around a corner to the straight, me building speed. Car A hasn't build up as much speed, and only do so when they see the clear straight.

I really can't be surprised when they don't see me in the mirror as we've just come around a bend. Given that I know the road ahead, I should expect that it may happen, and only overtake when I'm sure they see me.

Can do this by a quick flash of the lights, followed by indicating well in advance. Moving onto the opposite side of the road a little early and staying there for a moment to give Car A amply time to see in the mirror.

I've been car B on a few occasions, and while I don't have to do the above, it makes a big difference in my experience.

For reference, this is a common place I wait to overtake as the road is full sighted for around 1km. Around the righthand bend, with enough speed to overtaking, and Car A wont see you even if they look just beforehand, so you have to account for that.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4557242,-8.1165858,3a,75y,283.92h,93.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCvVRxKxU9nolZ08kONjig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So you start building up speed before you go round the bend and whether you know the road is clear or not?

kirving · 14-08-2018 7:40pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So you start building up speed before you go round the bend and whether you know the road is clear or not?

Build up speed, within the limit, closing the gap to Car A, and being ready to overtake should the road be clear. If it's not, just back off a bit and stay behind.

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

@ Kevin Irving

Just because you flashed the lights doesn't give you right of way. If I was Car A if I have my mind made up to go regardless of whether you flashed me or not, I'm going.
Unless you're in your overtaking manoeuvre coming up past me.

Fair enough, I'd always give Car A the chance to overtake by backing off a good bit beforehand (allowing them to back off too with zero pressure).

Kevin Finnerty · 14-08-2018 9:04pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Build up speed, within the limit, closing the gap to Car A, and being ready to overtake should the road be clear. If it's not, just back off a bit and stay behind.

Fair enough, I'd always give Car A the chance to overtake by backing off a good bit beforehand (allowing them to back off too with zero pressure).

I'd be the same as yourself in most of the rest of it tbf. I flash once I'm in the other lane so car A is getting me in his side mirror as opposed to rearviewer. ( if I feel hes not aware of me).
But I've been car A too. If I'm not in the humour I'll just back off 40 yards or so give someone else a go at it. It's the car A thats stuck up the back of the slower moving vehicle that annoys me no end when he has no intention of overtaking.

road_high · 14-08-2018 10:14pm

Benildus wrote: »

A truck is being followed by car A then car B. This procession hits a straight stretch of road - broken white line and no oncoming traffic.

Car B indicates and moves out to overtake both Car A and Truck. Car A then indicates and pulls out forcing Car B onto opposite verge and also to brake hard.

Cue much gesticulating and offensive sign language between occupants of both cars (truck driver seem nonplussed)

So who is in the right and who should have their license shredded?

That's happened me a few times (been Car

. Dithering idiot in Car A decides at the last second to pullout in front of you. Always give them a very wide berth now

ianobrien · 14-08-2018 10:36pm

Car A is at fault as he changed lanes into the other carrageway when it was not clear to do so. Car B was in possession of the carrageway. The fact that Car B was in the carrageway going the opposite direction to normal travel is not of consequence, Car B was in the carrageway and Car A moved without checking that it's clear.

Didn't Car A remember "Mirror, Signal, Maneuver"

The Rape of Lucretia · 14-08-2018 11:55pm

CiniO wrote: »

Total nonsense.
I never heard of a requirement for such common courtesy.

There never is a requirement for common courtesy.
But some people choose to be courteous however. Some don't.
Its a question of character.

Casati · 15-08-2018 8:43am

I was ‘car b’ this Sunday, and as I passed car a they started indicating and blowing the horn at me. After they passed the truck they drive up behind me and hit full beams (night time).

What to do in this situation?

redcup342 · 15-08-2018 8:55am

hahahah, I was in Poland a few weeks ago and there was a car C overtaking a car B while he was overtaking Car A :P

Car C was trying to overtake 2 trucks and 2 cars at the same time.

Ah sh*t roads bring out the worst in people :pac:

creedp · 15-08-2018 9:11am

Turbohymac wrote: »

Hi Kevin flannery..I think it's quite clear by many other posters here that a lot of the issues are caused by impatience..lack of respect and a very small bit of common courtesy.. for the last time whichever driver initiates a maneuver first should be observed by all other drivers and allowed to pass the slower truck..max 90kph. However in many scenarios both car drivers can get frustrated and make BAD decisions which cannot be reversed at that point.. front car driver might have been behind truck waiting to pass when safe and as soon as car b got a glimpse of free road possibly floored it with no pre checks or use of indicator to inform others.. this makes driver b. A P**ck.. other scenario. Driver a wasn't fast enough to check clear road to safety overtake and simply got angry cos driver b was more proactive in getting safely past the truck..then a is clearly wrong..
Anyway there's no camera footage of this maneuver of both cars as is correctly pointed out by a previous poster.. then there's 3 sides to every story... car driver a's story.. then there's car driver b's story and then there's the actual truth... oh. And don't worry at all about me cos I'm up front in the truck getting a good view of the p***ks trying to pass a very long vehicle on continuous white lines.. on a narrow single lane each way road and I'm on the speed limiter can't do any more..
Thanks Kevin

No difficulty with the 'guys up front' not being able to exceed their limiter but what contributes a lot to road rage and drivers taking unecessary risks is 2 or more 'guys up front' tailgating each other. Not very courteous to other road users and the said 'guys up front' could well be described using that discourteous term overly used here.

ohnonotgmail · 15-08-2018 9:18am

ianobrien wrote: »

Car A is at fault as he changed lanes into the other carrageway when it was not clear to do so. Car B was in possession of the carrageway. The fact that Car B was in the carrageway going the opposite direction to normal travel is not of consequence, Car B was in the carrageway and Car A moved without checking that it's clear.

Didn't Car A remember "Mirror, Signal, Maneuver"

"Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Maneuver"

redcup342 · 15-08-2018 9:42am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Maneuver"

Mirrors, Check Blind Spot, Signal, Mirrors, Maneuver.

Not checking your blind spot is why this can happen in the first place.

seagull · 15-08-2018 1:52pm

redcup342 wrote: »

Mirrors, Check Blind Spot, Signal, Mirrors, Maneuver.

Not checking your blind spot is why this can happen in the first place.

I learnt it as
Mirrors, Signal, Mirrors, Check Blind Spot, Maneuver.
A bike in particular can move from out of sight into your blind spot remarkably quickly.

Wildcard7 · 15-08-2018 1:56pm

It generally takes 2 parties to make an accident, just like in this scenario.

Car A is in the wrong, as they should have checked their mirrors and not have gotten in the way of a car already in the process of overtaking.

But car B could have avoided this if he waited to see if Car A is overtaking the truck itself.

Overtaking from the back of a convoy at the beginning of a straight without first making sure that none of the other cars wants to overtake is a dick move that leads to completely avoidable situations.

Also, when overtaking multiple cars at once, with an obstacle (truck/tractor/horses/bikes/whatnot) at the very front, you need to be extra careful and aware that other cars could pull out. If another car pulling out to overtake comes to you as a shock, maybe you're not fit for a drivers license.

lawred2 · 15-08-2018 2:00pm

So driver of Car A should be more careful, vigilant and observant.

However I'd like to know whether Car A had any genuine opportunities prior to this to overtake the truck - if not then driver of Car B is an impatient clown who will end up being involved in more scrapes than just this one.

frozenfrozen · 15-08-2018 2:02pm

seagull wrote: »

I learnt it as
Mirrors, Signal, Mirrors, Check Blind Spot, Maneuver.
A bike in particular can move from out of sight into your blind spot remarkably quickly.

or as they teach it on the motorbike IBT:

Mirror, Indicate, Lifesafer, FOOKING MANOEUVRE
or MILF

creedp · 15-08-2018 2:14pm

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Overtaking from the back of a convoy at the beginning of a straight without first making sure that none of the other cars wants to overtake is a dick move that leads to completely avoidable situations.

Also, when overtaking multiple cars at once, with an obstacle (truck/tractor/horses/bikes/whatnot) at the very front, you need to be extra careful and aware that other cars could pull out. If another car pulling out to overtake comes to you as a shock, maybe you're not fit for a drivers license.

lawred2 wrote: »

So driver of Car A should be more careful, vigilant and observant.

However I'd like to know whether Car A had any genuine opportunities prior to this to overtake the truck - if not then driver of Car B is an impatient clown who will end up being involved in more scrapes than just this one.

Maybe this is why people prefer to travel in slow moving processions rather that indicate and overtake when safe to do so - afraid of incurring the wrath of the good citizen police force - seriously someone who is just going about their business and operating within the ROTR shouldn't be subjected to this kind of abuse.

selectamatic · 15-08-2018 2:49pm

Casati wrote: »

I was ‘car b’ this Sunday, and as I passed car a they started indicating and blowing the horn at me. After they passed the truck they drive up behind me and hit full beams (night time).

What to do in this situation?

Give them tinkies and see if they can keep up? :P

Wildcard7 · 15-08-2018 2:59pm

creedp wrote: »

Maybe this is why people prefer to travel in slow moving processions rather that indicate and overtake when safe to do so - afraid of incurring the wrath of the good citizen police force - seriously someone who is just going about their business and operating within the ROTR shouldn't be subjected to this kind of abuse.

No, people who pilot one and a half ton of metal at 80 km per hour should anticipate the possibility of other people making mistakes, otherwise they shouldn't do that sort of thing.

I don't know about you, but I've been taught in driving school and in almost 20 years of driving to try and anticipate other peoples mistakes, just like I make mistakes as well.

And overtaking 2 cars is inherently a maneuver that requires extra attention. If you can't see that, then I'm not sure what to say anymore.

lawred2 · 15-08-2018 2:59pm

creedp wrote: »

Maybe this is why people prefer to travel in slow moving processions rather that indicate and overtake when safe to do so - afraid of incurring the wrath of the good citizen police force - seriously someone who is just going about their business and operating within the ROTR shouldn't be subjected to this kind of abuse.

It's never 100% safe to overtake multiple vehicles in one maneuver. Especially if one of those is a truck. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. The thing with sharing the road with others is that just going about your business isn't sufficient in an environment where we are all dependent on each other to get home safely.

I was specific in asking whether that was the first overtaking opportunity presented to either car A or car B and if it was and car B goes billy big balls straight out into the oncoming lane then he is indeed an impatient clown. And not someone driving safely with due care to other road users.

Now if car A was sitting in procession and didn't take any opportunity that presented itself to overtake - which is something I've seen countless times - then car A is just as a likely to be the cause of an accident. But the reality is that car A is less likely to be in that accident.

I know which car I'd like to travel in.

In the OP's case - car A is at fault but car B isn't without blame. Overtaking multiple vehicles just isn't a safe move.

creedp · 15-08-2018 4:34pm

lawred2 wrote: »

It's never 100% safe to overtake multiple vehicles in one maneuver. Especially if one of those is a truck. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. The thing with sharing the road with others is that just going about your business isn't sufficient in an environment where we are all dependent on each other to get home safely.

I was specific in asking whether that was the first overtaking opportunity presented to either car A or car B and if it was and car B goes billy big balls straight out into the oncoming lane then he is indeed an impatient clown. And not someone driving safely with due care to other road users.

Now if car A was sitting in procession and didn't take any opportunity that presented itself to overtake - which is something I've seen countless times - then car A is just as a likely to be the cause of an accident. But the reality is that car A is less likely to be in that accident.

I know which car I'd like to travel in.

In the OP's case - car A is at fault but car B isn't without blame. Overtaking multiple vehicles just isn't a safe move.

I'll remain deluded if it means I can continue to overtake 2 slow moving vehicles when I have sufficient visibility to complete this manoeuvre in a safe manner.

lawred2 · 15-08-2018 5:05pm

creedp wrote: »

I'll remain deluded if it means I can continue to overtake 2 slow moving vehicles when I have sufficient visibility to complete this manoeuvre in a safe manner.

Knock yourself out

RobAMerc · 15-08-2018 5:30pm

Wildcard7 wrote: »

It generally takes 2 parties to make an accident, just like in this scenario.

Car A is in the wrong, as they should have checked their mirrors and not have gotten in the way of a car already in the process of overtaking.

But car B could have avoided this if he waited to see if Car A is overtaking the truck itself.

What utter horse sh*t - how long should he wait ? Next you'll be suggesting that Car B sends the other driver a letter a week in advance and ask them of their intentions?

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Overtaking from the back of a convoy at the beginning of a straight without first making sure that none of the other cars wants to overtake is a dick move that leads to completely avoidable situations.

You do of course realise that Car A being in front gets to the straight first and even then can at any point decide its safe to proceed ?

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Also, when overtaking multiple cars at once, with an obstacle (truck/tractor/horses/bikes/whatnot) at the very front, you need to be extra careful and aware that other cars could pull out. If another car pulling out to overtake comes to you as a shock, maybe you're not fit for a drivers license.

Even something you expect can come as a shock. Are you trying to say if someone you were overtaking started to maneuver while you were in his blindspot you'd just laugh it off as you expected it to happen and hence react accordingly ? ( were not talking dinkys here are we ? )

V8 Interceptor · 15-08-2018 5:52pm

If I overtake something slow & continue accelerating into the straight stretch afterwards but then notice a lad behind has also overtaken the truck/tractor and is now attempting to overtake me in the same manoeuvre, should I slow down and let him in or should he have waited to see how fast I was going to drive having overtaken the slow moving vehicle?

Casati · 15-08-2018 7:42pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If I overtake something slow & continue accelerating into the straight stretch afterwards but then notice a lad behind has also overtaken the truck/tractor and is now attempting to overtake me in the same manoeuvre, should I slow down and let him in or should he have waited to see how fast I was going to drive having overtaken the slow moving vehicle?

Nah, keep accelerating to the speed you are happy with. If your in a V8 Interceptor I can’t see too many lads attempting this mind you

Reati · 15-08-2018 7:46pm

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Was it oul Tony McGregor driving the truck?!

In his hand fitted, slim fit suit? Where would he tender his keys?

frozenfrozen · 15-08-2018 7:52pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If I overtake something slow & continue accelerating into the straight stretch afterwards but then notice a lad behind has also overtaken the truck/tractor and is now attempting to overtake me in the same manoeuvre, should I slow down and let him in or should he have waited to see how fast I was going to drive having overtaken the slow moving vehicle?

Depends on if they are going to hold you up if they pass you out. If they won't then slow down and let them through..

Diemos · 15-08-2018 8:21pm

site_owner wrote: »

as described, Car A, they should have waited for Car B to complete the overtake since they started first

if you want a bunch of hypothetical, here are some things that might change that:

Car A was indicating and Car B missed it
or
Car B saw Car A indicating but wanted to overtake anyway as they were frustrated that Car A had not overtaken earlier
or
Car B never indicated and Car A moved out while Car B moved into their overtake at the same time
or
neither indicated
or
Car B might have been reasonably more powerful, or even just in the correct gear, to make quicker progress during simultaneous overtakes than Car A

What are you rabbiting on about?

Car A was indicating and Car B missed it Irrelevant, use of indicators does not give right of way.
or
Car B saw Car A indicating but wanted to overtake anyway as they were frustrated that Car A had not overtaken earlier This would make Car B an ignorant pr!ck but Car A still in the wrong.
or
Car B never indicated and Car A moved out while Car B moved into their overtake at the same time Irrelevant, car A needs to check his / her mirrors before changing lane.
or
neither indicated See point above
or
Car B might have been reasonably more powerful, or even just in the correct gear, to make quicker progress during simultaneous overtakes than Car A Now you are rambling

V8 Interceptor · 15-08-2018 8:56pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Depends on if they are going to hold you up if they pass you out. If they won't then slow down and let them through..

Shouldn't it be the other way around though? The guy (say car

has come around the slow vehicle after car A so shouldn't he see if car A is going to hold him up first?

Kevin Finnerty · 15-08-2018 9:58pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If I overtake something slow & continue accelerating into the straight stretch afterwards but then notice a lad behind has also overtaken the truck/tractor and is now attempting to overtake me in the same manoeuvre, should I slow down and let him in or should he have waited to see how fast I was going to drive having overtaken the slow moving vehicle?

If he's bulling for road let him have it once you get up to your own speed. Has happened where I've let lads off even though I'm still accelerating, those Glanzas are fair rapid.

Beechwoodspark · 15-08-2018 10:00pm

bren2002 wrote: »

Both are wrong.

Car B should not be overtaking 2 vehicles and Car A should have been more defensive and checked mirrors before beginning the overtake manoeuvre.

I would qualify this by saying it depends on how much visibility car B has. If it has adequate visability ahead then fair enough.

Overtaking; who is in the right?

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