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Overtaking; who is in the right?

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  • 14-08-2018 3:02pm
    #1
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭


    A truck is being followed by car A then car B. This procession hits a straight stretch of road - broken white line and no oncoming traffic.

    Car B indicates and moves out to overtake both Car A and Truck. Car A then indicates and pulls out forcing Car B onto opposite verge and also to brake hard.

    Cue much gesticulating and offensive sign language between occupants of both cars (truck driver seem nonplussed)

    So who is in the right and who should have their license shredded?


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Comments

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    #2
    omb0wyn5ehpij9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,095 ✭✭✭✭omb0wyn5ehpij9


    Car A is in the wrong


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    #3
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Car A is at fault. It should be mirroring before maneuvering and see car B is already started the overtaking maneuver.


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    #4
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    Both are wrong.

    Car B should not be overtaking 2 vehicles and Car A should have been more defensive and checked mirrors before beginning the overtake manoeuvre.


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    #5
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Normally A is to blame, but there is a special mention for those B's that clearly see the A's approaching the slow moving vehicle.


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    #6
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    bren2002 wrote: »
    Both are wrong.

    Car B should not be overtaking 2 vehicles and Car A should have been more defensive and checked mirrors before beginning the overtake manoeuvre.

    Since when is it illegal to overtake two vehicles?


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    #7
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    as described, Car A, they should have waited for Car B to complete the overtake since they started first

    if you want a bunch of hypothetical, here are some things that might change that:

    Car A was indicating and Car B missed it
    or
    Car B saw Car A indicating but wanted to overtake anyway as they were frustrated that Car A had not overtaken earlier
    or
    Car B never indicated and Car A moved out while Car B moved into their overtake at the same time
    or
    neither indicated
    or
    Car B might have been reasonably more powerful, or even just in the correct gear, to make quicker progress during simultaneous overtakes than Car A


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    #8
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Avns1s wrote: »
    Since when is it illegal to overtake two vehicles?

    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant overtaking an overtaking vehicle.


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    #9
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Yes definitely car A. That driver needs to use their mirrors a lot more..its quite frankly whoever initiates maneuver first .. ie. Checks for no oncoming traffic.clearly indicates and moves out to pass..however there are many drivers at the rear who clearly don't indicate or move out slowly. But instead floors the accelerator at the first sign of light and disregards everyone else in front who are clearly waiting to pass a lot longer
    A bit of common courtesy is alls needed


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    #10
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Both should have licences shredded :) as both are getting hot under the collar for a small error and thus will cause a crash.

    Hard to say who is at fault without being there.

    Car B should give car A the opportunity to overtake first as common courtesy.

    If car B basically wanted to act the bollox and commence overtaking at first opportunity as some dicks do, then car B is totally at fault.


    If however Car B allowed an opportunity for car A to overtake first and car A did not do so in a timely manner and only did so as Car B commenced the manoeuvre, then car A is at fault.


    So unless there was video of it, a definitive answer is not possible.


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    #11
    khaldrogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    Cordell wrote:
    Normally A is to blame, but there is a special mention for those B's that clearly see the A's approaching the slow moving vehicle.


    Maybe car A had had 4/5 opportunities prior to this to overtake and didn't.


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    #12
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Maybe, I was just saying, as a general observation, when car A has exactly 0 opportunities because it's not the time yet car B decides to overtake, forcing car A to brake. Not illegal, just some lack of common courtesy and situational awareness. Usually happens on the motorways or dual carriageways.


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    #13
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Ah well whoever initiates the pass out maneuver first. Certainly if car a was on an unfamiliar road well then car b ie spot on to pass out.and if I were car a I would have no issue waiting till b daf had passed.. common courtesy needed by all


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    #14
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    I was driving car B!
    site_owner wrote: »
    as described, Car A, they should have waited for Car B to complete the overtake since they started first

    if you want a bunch of hypothetical, here are some things that might change that:

    Car A was indicating and Car B missed it Car A was not indicating before I started my move
    or
    Car B saw Car A indicating but wanted to overtake anyway as they were frustrated that Car A had not overtaken earlier as above
    or
    Car B never indicated and Car A moved out while Car B moved into their overtake at the same time I indicated and had moved out
    or
    neither indicated No, we both indicated (at different times)
    or
    Car B might have been reasonably more powerful, or even just in the correct gear, to make quicker progress during simultaneous overtakes than Car A not sure this is relevant, as I've no idea what gear he was in
    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Both should have licences shredded :) as both are getting hot under the collar for a small error and thus will cause a crash. Car A caused me to move into opposite verge, if I hadn't there would have been a collision between us.

    Hard to say who is at fault without being there.

    Car B should give car A the opportunity to overtake first as common courtesy. He had sight of the clear road before I had and had not indicated by the time I started my move

    If car B basically wanted to act the bollox and commence overtaking at first opportunity as some dicks do, then car B is totally at fault. As above, he had the opportunity


    If however Car B allowed an opportunity for car A to overtake first and car A did not do so in a timely manner and only did so as Car B commenced the manoeuvre, then car A is at fault. :D


    So unless there was video of it, a definitive answer is not possible. No video available
    khaldrogo wrote: »
    Maybe car A had had 4/5 opportunities prior to this to overtake and didn't. No safe opportunities available prior to the straight stretch of road
    Cordell wrote: »
    Normally A is to blame, but there is a special mention for those B's that clearly see the A's approaching the slow moving vehicle. There was no "approaching" as we were both behind the truck for a similar amount of time, I did not just come up on them


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    #15
    PeaQueue
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭PeaQueue


    Car A is at fault. 
    I don't even see how its open for discussion. Whoever initiated the move first has right of way during the overtake.


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    #16
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,649 ✭✭✭creedp


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Both should have licences shredded :) as both are getting hot under the collar for a small error and thus will cause a crash.

    Hard to say who is at fault without being there.

    Car B should give car A the opportunity to overtake first as common courtesy.

    If car B basically wanted to act the bollox and commence overtaking at first opportunity as some dicks do, then car B is totally at fault.


    If however Car B allowed an opportunity for car A to overtake first and car A did not do so in a timely manner and only did so as Car B commenced the manoeuvre, then car A is at fault.


    So unless there was video of it, a definitive answer is not possible.



    How many time have you (Car B) followed a car (Car A) that simply doesn't want to overtake or is unable to overtake the vehicle in front? If all Car B's always waited politely (how long is considered polite) to see if Car A's wanted to overtake there would be a lot more funeral processions behind slow moving trucks and buses on Irish roads. Its bad enough as it is!

    Bottom line if Car B indicates to overtake, then he is perfectly entitled to overtake Car A and truck once it is safe to do so. In fact if I was Car C or D etc in this slow moving procession I would be giving Car B a big thumbs up as his actions would then allow me to safely overtake Car A and truck and so on down the procession!! Part of the problem on Irish roads is that there are far too many 'Car As' and not nearly enough 'Car Bs' ...


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    #17
    SnakePlissken
    Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭SnakePlissken


    OP was driving Car B... Car B is totally at fault so ;)


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    #18
    fancy pigeon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭fancy pigeon


    Is car A an Audi and car B a BMW?

    :D


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    #19
    Kevin Finnerty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    I was Car B once. ****er forced me onto the opposite verge while I was braking, took off when hit the verge through a block wall.
    He drove off, never got his number plate and ended up with 2 bills, my car and someone else's wall.

    Unlucky OP. Stupid drivers are the biggest danger out there.


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    #20
    PeaQueue
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭PeaQueue


    This sort of thing is why cars should come with dash cams built into the rear view mirror as standard these days.


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    #21
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,421 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Car A in the fault completely.
    I don’t know how many times I’ve been Car B and watched as Car A took nearly a whole stretch of road to overtake and then I was stuck behind the truck for ages.
    Now I just overtake the 2 and to hell with them.. and if I even see car A attempting to overtake I blow the hell out of them.


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    #22
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,764 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Kevin Finnerty wrote: »
    I was Car B once. ****er forced me onto the opposite verge while I was braking, took off when hit the verge through a block wall.
    He drove off, never got his number plate and ended up with 2 bills, my car and someone else's wall.

    Unlucky OP. Stupid drivers are the biggest danger out there.
    Well you hit the wall with your car car a was not liable for the bills.


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    #23
    Kevin Finnerty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    Well you hit the wall with your car car a was not liable for the bills.

    True. And if the Gardai had have been called I would've been told the same.
    If only I had a dash cam back then.


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    #24
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    CeilingFly wrote: »

    Car B should give car A the opportunity to overtake first as common courtesy.

    If car B basically wanted to act the bollox and commence overtaking at first opportunity as some dicks do, then car B is totally at fault.
    Total nonsense.
    I never heard of a requirement for such common courtesy.
    If however Car B allowed an opportunity for car A to overtake first and car A did not do so in a timely manner and only did so as Car B commenced the manoeuvre, then car A is at fault.


    So unless there was video of it, a definitive answer is not possible.
    Fault is not judged on some self-invented rules.

    Car A had an legal obligation to check if he wasn't being overtaken before he committed to go ahead with his overtaking manouver, that's why he is at fault.


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    #25
    Graham_B18C
    Registered Users Posts: 8,620 ✭✭✭Graham_B18C


    Benildus wrote: »

    (truck driver seem nonplussed)

    Was it oul Tony McGregor driving the truck?! :D

    Tony-McGregor-July.png?mtime=20180724102422


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    #26
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Clearly a lot of drivers should stay in the back seat and let responsible people drive..its not which car is wrong to pass it's the p***ks behind the wheel. Who should have left their starting point to safely reach their chosen destination 10 minutes earlier.


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    #27
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Its completely A's fault. the sad thing is in this day and age, had there been an accident any investigations starting point would have been that you speeding caused the crash and you would be forced to debunk that and begin from there.


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    #28
    Kevin Finnerty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    Clearly a lot of drivers should stay in the back seat and let responsible people drive..its not which car is wrong to pass it's the p***ks behind the wheel. Who should have left their starting point to safely reach their chosen destination 10 minutes earlier.

    Who are you saying is the priçk here? A or B? Or both?


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    #29
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    Car A is at fault.

    I drive country roads where there are only a couple of overtaking places. I know the roads and where is safe to overtake.

    What can happen to muddy the waters is me in car B driving along, come up behind a tractor and Car A doing 50kph. Approaching my usual overtaking spot, I slow to leave some distance to build speed on my side of the road for a quick and safe overtake.

    Come around a corner to the straight, me building speed. Car A hasn't build up as much speed, and only do so when they see the clear straight.

    I really can't be surprised when they don't see me in the mirror as we've just come around a bend. Given that I know the road ahead, I should expect that it may happen, and only overtake when I'm sure they see me.

    Can do this by a quick flash of the lights, followed by indicating well in advance. Moving onto the opposite side of the road a little early and staying there for a moment to give Car A amply time to see in the mirror.

    I've been car B on a few occasions, and while I don't have to do the above, it makes a big difference in my experience.

    For reference, this is a common place I wait to overtake as the road is full sighted for around 1km. Around the righthand bend, with enough speed to overtaking, and Car A wont see you even if they look just beforehand, so you have to account for that.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4557242,-8.1165858,3a,75y,283.92h,93.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCvVRxKxU9nolZ08kONjig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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    #30
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Hi Kevin flannery..I think it's quite clear by many other posters here that a lot of the issues are caused by impatience..lack of respect and a very small bit of common courtesy.. for the last time whichever driver initiates a maneuver first should be observed by all other drivers and allowed to pass the slower truck..max 90kph. However in many scenarios both car drivers can get frustrated and make BAD decisions which cannot be reversed at that point.. front car driver might have been behind truck waiting to pass when safe and as soon as car b got a glimpse of free road possibly floored it with no pre checks or use of indicator to inform others.. this makes driver b. A P**ck.. other scenario. Driver a wasn't fast enough to check clear road to safety overtake and simply got angry cos driver b was more proactive in getting safely past the truck..then a is clearly wrong..
    Anyway there's no camera footage of this maneuver of both cars as is correctly pointed out by a previous poster.. then there's 3 sides to every story... car driver a's story.. then there's car driver b's story and then there's the actual truth... oh. And don't worry at all about me cos I'm up front in the truck getting a good view of the p***ks trying to pass a very long vehicle on continuous white lines.. on a narrow single lane each way road and I'm on the speed limiter can't do any more..
    Thanks Kevin


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    #31
    Kevin Finnerty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    @ Kevin Irving

    Just because you flashed the lights doesn't give you right of way. If I was Car A if I have my mind made up to go regardless of whether you flashed me or not, I'm going.
    Unless you're in your overtaking manoeuvre coming up past me.


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