Air Accident / Incident thread

Buffman · 05-10-2016 11:28am

Other than the Donegal runway excursion mentioned above there's been a few other incidents in the last month with an Irish connection. Credit to the AVHearld.

ASL B734 at Belfast on Oct 4th 2016, burst main tyres on landing

An ASL Airlines Boeing 737-400 freighter in TNT Express Colours, registration OE-IAG performing flight 3V-834V from East Midlands,EN to Belfast International,NI (UK) with 2 crew, landed on Belfast's runway 25 at 05:55L (04:55Z) but burst a number of tyres. The aircraft came to a stop on the intersections of runway 07/25 and 17/35 about 2150 meters/7070 feet down runway 25 effectively closing both runways.

Lingus B752 near Boston on Oct 2nd 2016, engine problem

An Aer Lingus Boeing 757-200, registration EI-CJX performing flight EI-110 from New York JFK,NY (USA) to Shannon (Ireland) with 115 people on board, was climbing out of New York about 80nm south of Boston,MA (USA) when the crew requested to level off at FL260 reporting they had some minor technical issue, they might need to divert to Boston though. A few minutes later the crew decided to divert to Boston advising they didn't need any assistance, they had an issue with the left hand engine (RB211), the engine was running okay but the crew didn't want to cross the Ocean with it. The aircraft diverted to Boston for a safe landing about 35 minutes after levelling off at FL260.

Ryanair B738 near Glasgow on Sep 28th 2016, icing causes problems on both engines

A Ryanair Boeing 737-800, registration EI-EPC performing flight FR-817 from Edinburgh,SC (UK) to Dublin (Ireland) with 145 passengers and 6 crew, was enroute at FL260 about 35nm southsouthwest of Glasgow,SC (UK) when the crew detected icing at their flight level and requested an early descent. After being cleared for the descent, during the initial descent, the crew noticed light vibrations and increasing oil temperatures on both engines prompting the crew to declare PAN. The aircraft continued to Dublin for a safe landing on runway 28 about 35 minutes later

Stobart AT72 at Dublin on Sep 2nd 2016, descended below assigned altitude and minimum safe altitude

A Stobart Air Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A, registration EI-FAW performing flight RE-3257/EI-3257 from Edinburgh,SC (UK) to Dublin (Ireland), was on approach to Dublin's runway 28 and had been cleared to descend to 2000 feet and for the ILS approach runway 28, report established on localizer. The aircraft descended through 2000 feet MSL, at 1100 feet MSL the controller's Minimum Safe Altitude Warning activated and the controller queried the crew, who advised they would go around. The aircraft climbed to 3000 feet, joined a right downwind, positioned for another ILS approach to runway 28 and landed safely on its second approach about 15 minutes after the go-around.

maximum12 · 05-10-2016 11:39am

That Stobart one sounds a bit concerning.

JCX BXC · 05-10-2016 9:58pm

Good God! http://avherald.com/h?article=49ec203d&opt=1024

Accident: TAAG B773 at Porto and Lisbon on Oct 1st 2016, departed with ground worker trapped in cargo hold

A TAAG Angola Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration D2-TEI performing flight DT-655 from Porto (Portugal) to Luanda (Angola), was enroute at FL350 about 60nm southeast of Lisbon (Portugal) when the crew was informed that a ground worker has gone missing in Porto, the ground worker had last taken care of cargo loading and was presumed locked into the cargo hold of DT-655. The crew turned around and diverted to Lisbon making a rapid descent and landing on Lisbon's runway 03 18 minutes later. The ground worker was found in the cargo hold suffering from Hypothermia and was taken to a hospital.

billie1b · 05-10-2016 10:10pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Good God! http://avherald.com/h?article=49ec203d&opt=1024

Accident: TAAG B773 at Porto and Lisbon on Oct 1st 2016, departed with ground worker trapped in cargo hold

Happened a lad on an EI flight ages ago, they had started taxi-ing to the runway when the pax heards bangs and thumps coming from the back of the plane and informed the crew, the crew in turn informed the flight deck who turned back to stand. It was a T/A flight too, he would have been well and truely fubared

Shannon757 · 05-10-2016 10:12pm

Oh wow, stuck in the cargo hold? Didn't think it was cold in there.

Stovepipe · 06-10-2016 2:18pm

cargo holds have only the most basic of heating, ie, they get the air that has already passed thru other compartments first, only the aircraft is specifically equipped with cargo heating..

billy few mates · 06-10-2016 3:47pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

cargo holds have only the most basic of heating, ie, they get the air that has already passed thru other compartments first, only the aircraft is specifically equipped with cargo heating..

Not necessarily, many A/C have normal pressurised and air conditioned cargo holds and carry everything from dogs to day old chicks and anything else that fits in there. Some use Avionic equipment cooling air to heat them but there's very little difference between the quality of air on the main deck and in the lower cargo compartment, it all comes from the same source it all passes through the same distribution and recycling processes.
Might be a little darker and stuffier there but it's definitely survivable.

Long Time Lurker · 06-10-2016 9:33pm

Is there a fire on an aircraft at Dublin?

Bussywussy · 06-10-2016 9:40pm

billie1b wrote: »

Happened a lad on an EI flight ages ago, they had started taxi-ing to the runway when the pax heards bangs and thumps coming from the back of the plane and informed the crew, the crew in turn informed the flight deck who turned back to stand. It was a T/A flight too, he would have been well and truely fubared

Happened Again yesterday in dub on an American carrier,some lad fell asleep in the fwd cargo and AC returned to stand,that'll be a p45 judging by the way that handling agent treat their staff.

MoeJay · 06-10-2016 9:56pm

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Is there a fire on an aircraft at Dublin?

There is an exercise for the emergency services going on tonight.

donkey balls · 06-10-2016 10:02pm

What procedure do the Airlines and handling agents at Dublin got in place to stop staff from getting locked in to the fwd & aft holds at present ?

Stovepipe · 07-10-2016 12:08am

@bfm, like I said, the heated air passes thru several compartments and is often distributed last to the cargo areas. It's surviveable but not a fun place to be. The priority is human comfort and surviveability in the cabin......@donkeyballs, the engineer or handlers doing the push should be checking that all doors are closed prior to push. It's up to them to do a headcount as the loaders get clear. Depending on the aircraft type, a loader might have to get quite deep inside the holds to deal with bags and might be accidentally closed in. The way things are now, a loader might close a door and then rush off to another stand without having made his departure known to the tug crew or the load supervisor, so it can get very confused around the aircraft, as to who is where and doing what. Also, if you don't know the loaders/handlers/engrs/load supervisors personally, then you might not be aware that anyone is missing. A morning departure scene on the ramp is highly educational.

donkey balls · 07-10-2016 1:23am

Oh I know about morning and evening departures and the organised chaos behind it believe me did it all in a former life, But surely there has to be some form of a head count for lads getting into holds for loading.
Just take a 737 on a hot morning at Dub and the lad loading passes out due to the temperature in the hold,Surely the load supervisor should have a list of who is asigned to that flight.
I know ground crew get flung from one flight to another in the chaos of it all,But a simple head count just like what the fire services do be a lot better.

Dardania · 07-10-2016 6:57am

In other industries there are lock out tag out procedures - say in electrical, the circuit breaker feeding a panel has a series of locks on it, that everyone working on the panel puts their personal lock on. And th eonly way to energise the cirucit is if everyone takes their lock off.
Something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout-tagout

Wonder why it can't be adapted for situations like this?

Mebuntu · 07-10-2016 11:40am

maximum12 wrote: »

That Stobart one sounds a bit concerning.

More like shocking. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of this incident here. I can't wait to see the report on this one.

maximum12 · 07-10-2016 12:03pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

More like shocking. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of this incident here. I can't wait to see the report on this one.

Any pilots know if they would get a warning if they were below the glide scope ?

Buffman · 07-10-2016 2:20pm

Here's few more incidents from the AVHearld:

THY A319 at Sochi on Sep 28th 2016, ATC prevented controlled flight into terrain

A THY Turkish Airlines Airbus A319-100, registration TC-JLP performing flight TK-295 (dep Sep 27th) from Istanbul (Turkey) to Sochi (Russia), was on final approach to Sochi's runway 02 at about 00:54L (21:54Z Sep 27th) in low visbility when the crew went around from low height (below 400 feet MSL) due to windshear. The aircraft turned left in conflict with the missed approach procedure requiring a turn to the right and was climbing towards terrain when ATC intervened instructing the aircraft to immediately climb to FL060 which was read back and complied with by the crew, then tower instructed to immediately turn right, the crew read back that instructions but continued to climb straight ahead towards terrain. ATC therefore instructed the aircraft to climb to FL150, which took the aircraft above terrain and into safety. Mountain tops around Sochi rise up to 2520 meters/8260 feet

Atlasjet A321 over Bulgaria on Sep 8th 2016, climb instead of descent results in near collision

An Atlasjet Airbus A321-200, registration TC-ATF performing flight KK-6112 from Zurich (Switzerland) to Istanbul (Turkey), was enroute at FL350 about 140nm southeast of Sofia (Bulgaria) and about 130nm northwest of Istanbul when Sofia Center cleared the flight to descend to FL310. The aircraft however initiated a climb instead of the descent.

A THY Turkish Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-JVS performing flight TK-1966 from London Gatwick,EN (UK) to Istanbul (Turkey), was enroute at FL370 about 140nm southeast of Sofia and about 130nm northwest of Istanbul at the same time, when Sofia Center cleared the flight to descend to FL330.

Bulgaria's AAIU reported that as result the separation between the aircraft eroded to 0 feet vertical and 1.2nm horizontal at FL363, Sofia Center issued vectors to both aircraft turning the A321 left and the B738 right thus establishing diverging flight trajectories and resolving the conflict.

Jet Airways B773 at London on Aug 30th 2016, unsafe departure

A Jet Airways Boeing 777-300, registration VT-JEK performing flight 9W-117 from London Heathrow,EN (UK) to Mumbai (India), lined up Heathrow's runway 27L at taxiway S4E, about 1200 meters/4000 feet down the runway (total runway length 3660 meters/12000 feet leaving about 2400 meters/8000 feet remaining for that takeoff).

.................

The airline reported there had been no injuries and no damage, the airline however investigates the occurrence as part of their active safety management, too. The aircraft performed an intersection departure, thus not using the full runway length, however, did not climb to required height in time and crossed the airport perimeter wall and traffic on the road just past the wall at very low height.

And on a slightly less serious story, anyone ever heard of automated Mayday calls and automated diversion requests?

Aeromexico B788 over Atlantic on Sep 22nd 2016, automated declaration of Emergency reporting engine failure

An Aeromexico Boeing 787-800, registration N783AM performing flight AM-3 from Mexico City (Mexico) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was enroute at FL410 over the Atlantic Ocean at about position N47.69 W34.6 about 740nm east of St. John's,NL (Canada) and about 1460nm west of Paris, when the aircraft transmitted an automated Mayday message to Gander Oceanic Centre reporting an engine (GEnx) failure and requesting a diversion to Gander,NL (Canada). Gander Oceanic Centre cleared the flight for the diversion and transmitted the clearance, but then received a number of automated reports indicating that operations were normal and the flight was continuing to destination. The aircraft continued to Paris for a safe landing about 3 hours later.

The Canadian TSB reported that soon after the automated reports indicating normal operations despite the earlier automated emergency declaration Gander Oceanic Centre received a message stating, that the emergency message had been sent with no apparent reason.

sjb25 · 07-10-2016 4:26pm

What's the story with this how "close" really would she have been

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/airport-ambulance-driver-launching-suit-after-ryanair-plane-almost-struck-her-after-she-was-cleared-to-cross-runway-35112476.html

ectoraige · 07-10-2016 4:36pm

sjb25 wrote: »

What's the story with this how "close" really would she have been

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/airport-ambulance-driver-launching-suit-after-ryanair-plane-almost-struck-her-after-she-was-cleared-to-cross-runway-35112476.html

Case still ongoing? Article says she was 86 metres away from airplane traveling at 200kph, or 55 metres per second.

Buffman · 16-10-2016 10:10pm

One from last month in Indonesia.

Accident: Trigana B733 at Wamena on Sep 13th 2016, hard landing results in main gear collapse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEiKpp8lH60

JCX BXC · 16-10-2016 11:20pm

Buffman wrote: »

One from last month in Indonesia.

Accident: Trigana B733 at Wamena on Sep 13th 2016, hard landing results in main gear collapse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEiKpp8lH60

Is it me or is the aircraft at the start of the video in the grass?

Buffman · 16-10-2016 11:38pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Is it me or is the aircraft at the start of the video in the grass?

Ye, that was my first thought also, but the 732 is on a taxiway waiting at a holding point according to the YT description.

Buffman · 22-10-2016 1:11pm

Luckily this happend during backtracking and not after V1 on the takeoff roll or in the air.

Calm AT72 at Thompson on Oct 17th 2016, both engines shut down uncommandedly

A Calm Air Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-200, registration C-GPBR performing flight MO-503 from Thompson,MB to Gillam,MB (Canada) with 31 people on board, was backtracking runway 06 for departure. While working the takeoff checklist the crew selected engine de-ice on, however, within 5 seconds both engines (PW124) flamed out and shut down emitting smoke. The crew stopped the aircraft on the runway, completed the engine shut down and declared emergency. The passengers disembarked onto the runway...............The Canadian TSB reported that prior to departure the aircraft had been parked in blowing snow conditions for about 3 hours without the engine inlets being covered.

Shows the importance of covering the air intakes from snow.

A similar situation lead to a Belfast bound Loganair Shorts 360 Royal Mail flight ditching in the Firth of Forth in 2001, killing both crew.

vicwatson · 24-10-2016 8:40am

Plane down leaving Malta killing 5

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/five-eu-officials-dead-after-plane-crashes-in-malta-35155939.html

Edited not eu staff but nonetheless RIP the victims

martinsvi · 24-10-2016 10:57am

maximum12 wrote: »

Any pilots know if they would get a warning if they were below the glide scope ?

all commercial aircraft carrying more than 9 seats are required to be equipped with some form of Terrain avoidance system, ATRs would have EGPWS and as part of that, there is a mode for glideslope warnings

A typical Honeywell EGPWS would give a "soft warning" if aircraft is below 1000ft radio altitude and 1.3 points below the glide slope beam. Below 300ft and below 2 points of glideslope would result in EGPWS shouting "glide slope" at you every 3 seconds

ElNino · 24-10-2016 11:14am

Incident: Cityjet RJ85 near Dublin on Oct 23rd 2016, cracked windshield

By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Oct 23rd 2016 21:53Z, last updated Sunday, Oct 23rd 2016 21:53Z
A Cityjet Avro RJ-85 on behalf of Air France, registration EI-RJE performing flight AF-1617 from Dublin (Ireland) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was climbing out of Dublin when the crew requested to stop the climb at FL150 subsequently advising they had a cracked windshield and needed to return to Dublin. The aircraft landed safely back about 35 minutes after departure.

A replacement RJ-85 registration EI-RJO reached Paris with a delay of 3.5 hours.

Growler!!! · 24-10-2016 11:45am

martinsvi wrote: »

maximum12 wrote: »

Any pilots know if they would get a warning if they were below the glide scope ?

all commercial aircraft carrying more than 9 seats are required to be equipped with some form of Terrain avoidance system, ATRs would have EGPWS and as part of that, there is a mode for glideslope warnings

A typical Honeywell EGPWS would give a "soft warning" if aircraft is below 1000ft radio altitude and 1.3 points below the glide slope beam. Below 300ft and below 2 points of glideslope would result in EGPWS shouting "glide slope" at you every 3 seconds

Once a valid signal is received from the captains glideslope receiver. If the ILS wasn't tuned then no EGPWS warning. Possibly what happened here. Unless the aural alarm was ignored!

martinsvi · 24-10-2016 11:53am

Growler!!! wrote: »

Once a valid signal is received from the captains glideslope receiver. If the ILS wasn't tuned then no EGPWS warning. Possibly what happened here. Unless the aural alarm was ignored!

I think the key here is that the deviation wasn't that bad for the warning to activate in the first place. From the report it says that aircraft descended to 1100ft MSL - if MSL is somewhat equal to rad altitude (which it probably isn't but hopefully it's somewhere close) then chances are the warning wouldn't have activated as the deviation threshold havent been reached yet