[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 9:53pm #1

Hi Guys,

This case has been resolved after 8 DAYS. WOW, this one slipped under the radar:

RTÉ Business: Internet: Eircom settles with music firms

Eircom settles with music firms

"High Court proceedings between Eircom and four music companies - EMI, Sony, Universal and Warners - have been settled on an amicable basis. The proceedings had been in court for eight days.

Under the settlement, the record companies will supply Eircom with the internet provider addresses of all persons who they detect illegally uploading or downloading copywrite works on a peer to peer basis.

Eircom has agreed that it would disconnect any broadband subscriber who failed to comply, following a warning they were acting illegally."

HERES A MORE EXTENSIVE ARTICLE:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0128/breaking81.htm

Downloaders face disconnection following Eircom settlement

So Clean up your act guys - Big Bro may come a knockin ... Ah Yes - is this the beginning of the "GREAT FIREWALL OF EIRE"?

Aidan

tuxy · 28-01-2009 9:55pm

It's great that they are going after peer to peer only, torrent's destroy networks by flooding it with connections. Newsgroups are defiantly the way to go.

Random · 28-01-2009 9:55pm

Isn't it like the old Masterbation thing? Just download until you get caught / go blind.

L.R. Weizel · 28-01-2009 9:57pm

Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too. Personally I don't give a **** if record companies go out of business.

Cabaal · 28-01-2009 9:57pm

This was bound to happen and to be honest its not really news given the likely hood of it happening, RTE refer to it as a ground breaking and a first yet it already happens in other countrys...go figure

In what has been billed as a world first, four music companies and internet server provider Eircom have agreed to work together to end illegal music downloading.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download.html

Poor reporting imho

Cabaal · 28-01-2009 10:00pm

L.R. Weizel wrote: »

Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too. Personally I don't give a **** if record companies go out of business.

How is it, if people are breaking the law record companys are entitled to try stop them are they not?

Funny thing about downloading music from the internet is I actually buy more music now then I did 4 years ago

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:05pm

The articles didn't mention what the record companies will do.
How will the record companies detect you downloading music?
Will they take legal action against those they detect downloading music?
How will they know that the torrents contain music and not other data (especially if you use encryption)?
Don't eircom use dynamic IPs, meaning that false positives will be likely? Will you be able to challenge the record companies' claims?

There are far too many unanswered questions here.

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:07pm

Cabaal wrote: »

yet it already happens in other countrys...go figure

I don't think it does. France tried to bring a similar law in but it failed. Britain and the US recently abandoned plans to introduce this type of law too.

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:08pm

mobius42 wrote: »

The articles didn't mention what the record companies will do.
How will the record companies detect you downloading music?
Will they take legal action against those they detect downloading music?
How will they know that the torrents contain music and not other data (especially if you use encryption)?
Don't eircom use dynamic IPs, meaning that false positives will be likely? Will you be able to challenge the record companies' claims?

There are far too many unanswered questions here.

Some answers maybe:

"Both parties have agreed to work closely together and on a joint approach aimed at ending “the absue of the internet by P2P (peer to peer) copyright infringers”, they said in a statement afterwards."

P2P is only part of the problem. Without naming any, File storage sites are littered with zipped downloadable movies and music files. I would say they can only detect the P2P traffic as it is explicit - from one users PC to another users PC direct using such applications as Limewire and Torrent apps.

Another interesting bit: "As part of the settlement, the record companies will supply Eircom with the IP addresses of all persons who they detect illegally uploading or downloading copyright works"

The RECORD COMPANIES will SUPPLY Eircom with the IP Addresses, not the other way around, hence these companies have ways of tracking Peer to Peer traffic? Maybe this - http://www.baytsp.com/solutions/index.html

Aidan

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:13pm

aidanodr wrote: »

The RECORD COMPANIES will SUPPLY Eircom with the IP Addresses, not the other way around, hence these companies have ways of tracking Peer to Peer traffic? Maybe this - http://www.baytsp.com/solutions/index.html

Aidan

I picked up on that from the article and that's what worries me. These companies have been shown to use inaccurate methods and supply false information. Just google Mediasentry and you'll see what I mean. They're the company responsible for that lawsuit against the elderly couple who couldn't use a computer amongst others.

yoshytoshy · 28-01-2009 10:15pm

in a way stuff like this is good for ireland ,especially if we are to become more competitive in the IT area of business.

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:16pm

Considering how many people use bittorrent, I wonder how happy Eircom will be to cut off thousands of customers and lose all that revenue.

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:18pm

yoshytoshy wrote: »

in a way stuff like this is good for ireland ,especially if we are to become more competitive in the IT area of business.

BUT you know, things like this start here with such a ruling ( now we have a court precident ) and then have the potential to expand into other non illegal area's - being used as a censorship tool which could in the long run cripple internet use in Ireland in some ways? As I said previously - THE GREAT FIREWALL OF EIRE begins? Just throwing the argument out there for debate ..

Aidan

Hank Scorpio · 28-01-2009 10:20pm

funny im downloading 3 discographys atm

this has all come about because eircom lost a legal lawsuit against these companies i presume ( i seen they were in court ) defending music downloads " less cocaine for rockstars " or something alone these likes

Also eircom wont moniter ****, how do these companies have ANY access to what irish people are downloading, eircom will turn a blind eye and not do anything

also , if BT, PERLICO etc customers are downloading music does this come into the legal agreement?

tbh lads is a pile of piss and i wouldnt take it serious, look at the uk and what happened

niceirishfella · 28-01-2009 10:20pm

What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
Will they be safe?

corkonian0110 · 28-01-2009 10:21pm

good for Ireland, thats rubbish - as mentioned earlier, the monitoring of ip addresses and record company's reporting it to Eircom - = embarrasing for Ireland.
i will be continuing to download torrents.....ahem ....on my neighbours wifi

bangersandmash · 28-01-2009 10:21pm

mobius42 wrote: »

I don't think it does. France tried to bring a similar law in but it failed. Britain and the US recently abandoned plans to introduce this type of law too.

It's not a law. Instead of going the legal route with individuals, they're liaising directly with the ISP.

"What happens at the moment is that music labels need to go to court to get an order asking us to shut off a subscriber's connection. Under the compromise, they will come to us, using the same standard of proof they would have given the court. We need to be convinced that our subscriber is file-sharing illegally."

http://www.yourtechstuff.com/techwire/2009/01/eircom-settles-with-big-music-will-cut-off-filesharers.html

Rumours are that the same strategy will be used in the US, but ISPs are reluctant to admit it. Maybe it is a first for Eircom.

AT&T won't either confirm or deny its involvement but maintains that it believes "consumer education" is the solution to thwarting music piracy and that it wouldn't automatically cut off access to its customers.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/01/28/att.and.comcast.help.riaa/

97i9y3941 · 28-01-2009 10:23pm

i was watching news about that,i think the other providers are expected to follow suit,basically saying we sue you if you dont do the same

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:23pm

niceirishfella wrote: »

What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
Will they be safe?

The article says that the record companies are looking at making deals with the other ISPs, so I'd say this applies to Eircom only. However, considering that Eircom actually controls all the infrastructure that the other ISPs use (except Magnet and UPC), who knows?

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:24pm

niceirishfella wrote: »

What if these illegal downloaders don't use eircom as their BB service prvider, like they could use magnet or digiweb?
Will they be safe?

READ the times article above:

"The record companies have also agreed they will take all necessary steps to put similar agreements in place with all other internet service providers in Ireland."

I would say the other companies will now follow suit. As I said - a court precident has now occurred IN THIS Jurisdiction. This precident can now be used against the other ISPs I reckon.

Aidan

niceirishfella · 28-01-2009 10:29pm

more nanny state sh1te

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:30pm

aidanodr wrote: »

I would say the other companies will now follow suit. As I said - a court precident has now occurred IN THIS Jurisdiction. This precident can now be used against the other ISPs I reckon.

Aidan

Not necessarily. If it was an out of court settlement, and I think it was, then no legal precedent has been established.

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:31pm

OK Guys,

Heres the skinny:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/12181/new-media/big-four-music-labels-and-eircom-in-landmark-piracy-settlement

"Eircom has agreed to implement a “three strikes and you’re out” policy against illegal peer-to-peer (P2P) downloaders while also agreeing work with data provided by the big four labels to help them pinpoint and pursue illegal downloaders and uploaders."

AS I SAID: "The ruling means a precedent has been set and all other ISPs in the Irish market will now have to cooperate with the music industry."

"The move will have global ramifications as other labels in other jurisdictions will be able to follow a similar route to punish illegal downloaders."

"The labels wanted Eircom to install filtering software such as Audible Magic to help prevent the rise of music piracy which coincided with and they believe is responsible for falling music sales."

"The record companies will use a service called DetecNet which poses as a P2P file sharer to target the offending downloaders and supply Eircom with the IP addresses of suspected copyright thieves."

"A spokesman for Eircom explained to siliconrepublic.com that the collaboration with the labels will not involve any network intervention. “Effectively a third party will be hired by the labels to find out who are the largest illegal P2P downloaders. They will then come to us with the IP addresses of the suspected parties.

“We won’t reveal the identities of the users but we will contact them and if they fail to comply we will follow the process agreed with the music industry. Currently the industry pursues these individuals in the court. We will now begin a three step process that will begin with the issuing of a warning."

SO THEIR NOW ...
Aidan

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:32pm

mobius42 wrote: »

Not necessarily. If it was an out of court settlement, and I think it was, then no legal precedent has been established.

READ above Mobius

niceirishfella · 28-01-2009 10:36pm

Aidan , calm down....breath in and out

L.R. Weizel · 28-01-2009 10:38pm

Cabaal wrote: »

How is it, if people are breaking the law record companys are entitled to try stop them are they not? Funny thing about downloading music from the internet is I actually buy more music now then I did 4 years ago

Too many people equate law with ethics. It's pretty scary. There's also kind of the smug view that people who disagree are just lazy criminals. I just don't support the music industry and the way it does things, at all. If there's some record company that does things differently maybe I'll be more inclined to purchase, but there are still too many fat cats. Music shouldn't be about that. For that reason, I wouldn't care if someone pirated like a madman. Personally I support things like creative commons and the demoscene. I do think musicians should be paid as they can be very hardworking individuals, but the way things are is just wrong.

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:39pm

niceirishfella wrote: »

Aidan , calm down....breath in and out

Aaaaahhhhhhhhh, that felling of Zen calm is now upon me

Aidan

PS - niceirishfella, I am interested in this area. Anoraky as it may sound, Internet security and the like is what I do for a crust, but however, censorship and IRL being used as a guinnee pig I would have arguments about!

yoshytoshy · 28-01-2009 10:40pm

Shooting simon cowell and his cronies will improve music sales.

aidanodr · 28-01-2009 10:41pm

AND to keep the pace going while in a ZEN State -

http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=3639170

This is where it all came from. I reckon Ireland is being used as a test jurisdiction? Have a read ... long article but explains alot

Aidan

Smcgie · 28-01-2009 10:49pm

Surely the music industry must realise that passing a mp3 file via Bluetooth is the same as downloading.... What are they going to do next sue phone companies to remove bluetooth from all phones :P

Stky10 · 28-01-2009 10:50pm

L.R. Weizel wrote: »

Ridiculous. To do this right before a recession too.

Ahem... we're already in a recession.. verging on a depression.

Personally I think its all bluster. The burden of proof is on them to prove that you're downloading music rather than data of another sort. There are multiple ways around this. Even still, knowing Eircom it will be implemented in a half arsed way, they'll make an example of a few to make it look like they're doing something, and after that they'll pretty much ignore whats going on. They'd be mad not to. Broadband is too much of a cash cow for them to cut off their own nose.

Hank Scorpio · 28-01-2009 10:54pm

prob is piracy has totally fecked the music industry, games industry, dvd/movie industry

that said, i dont really care.. 25 euro for a cd that cost less than 50 cents to make, ye fo

also if eircom warn me ill post there T&C that they provided me when i first signed up and show them theres nothing about p2p downloads( altho it might be liable to change, there changing the download policy which i dont beleive in covered in that T&C) Ok im not a lawyer but u get my drift

Lads i wouldnt worry tbh, theres at least 5 more stable ways of downloading music or whatever you may be into, its the internet ! How can they stop a world wide neighbourhood

I`ll continuing using torrents unless i get a big scary warning from the cheating money hungry known as eircom

In fairness they thought this but the 8 days intensivness kinda screwed them!

mobius42 · 28-01-2009 10:57pm

Judging from how they're going to be detecting file sharers (as explained in Aidan's post above), it would seem that installing peerguardian should be enough to escape detection.

Maximus_Laggus · 28-01-2009 11:02pm

It's only Eircom thats rolled over. They have not lost the court case, they settled out of court. Other ISP's will no doubt be targeted now that Eircom has given in. There are really grim prospects for ISP's if big brother can monitor which sites and what content you choose to download!

Whats more, the news article on Eircoms homepage states that its the record Co's which will provide Eircom with the IP addresses of what it percieves to be illegal downloaders for Eircom to pursue. How is this information available to the record Companies?

I've no doubt someone will challange the legality of this whole farce eventually. Big chunk of our freedom is on the line here. Whats next!!

yoshytoshy · 28-01-2009 11:02pm

sony has the ps3 with media sharing to know whats on someones network

97i9y3941 · 28-01-2009 11:08pm

mobius42 wrote: »

Judging from how they're going to be detecting file sharers (as explained in Aidan's post above), it would seem that installing peerguardian should be enough to escape detection.

not really foolproof either i heard,heard that a court could simply order peer to reveal its i.p's addys

pwd · 28-01-2009 11:22pm

the thing they are missing with this is the big hole in the security of eircom's wireless modems. There will be a lot of people getting warnings who don't even know what p2p is.

wheresmybeaver · 28-01-2009 11:26pm

Ah sure it's like the tv licence. You get away with it for a while, then you get a warning, so you buy the licence. IMO, if this thing actually gets implemented, then unless you're downloading like a mad ejit you're probably not even going to get noticed. And even if you are then there's a simple solution to that: start copying CDs again like its 1995! Very retro indeed.

People will always share music, on the internet or otherwise.

Maximus_Laggus · 28-01-2009 11:27pm

Also, how do they police wifi hotspots or unsecured wifi in private homes. My mother had unsecured wifi until I found out recently and secured it. No doubt her neighbours kids were downloading porn and music on a free gravy train for a while there! My mother could have been banned from Eircoms ISP service.

97i9y3941 · 28-01-2009 11:35pm

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Ah sure it's like the tv licence. You get away with it for a while, then you get a warning, so you buy the licence. IMO, if this thing actually gets implemented, then unless you're downloading like a mad ejit you're probably not even going to get noticed. And even if you are then there's a simple solution to that: start copying CDs again like its 1995! Very retro indeed.

People will always share music, on the internet or otherwise.

thats what caused it in the first place,people where doing that,admitting it and all in forums/chats

97i9y3941 · 28-01-2009 11:36pm

pwd wrote: »

the thing they are missing with this is the big hole in the secuirty f eircom's wireless modems. There will be a lot of people getting warnings who don't even know what p2p is.

be alot of people who probably didnt know or understand the statement about eircoms settlement and continue doing it!

Hank Scorpio · 28-01-2009 11:38pm

Maximus_Laggus wrote: »

Also, how do they police wifi hotspots or unsecured wifi in private homes. My mother had unsecured wifi until I found out recently and secured it. No doubt her neighbours kids were downloading porn and music on a free gravy train for a while there! My mother could have been banned from Eircoms ISP service.

your mom is going to jail!!

Nah im joking, Eircoms default WEP keys are easily cracked, i wouldnt blame anyone for that except eircom

( key is rerived from the router serial code

plently of generators out already for them. )

barnicles · 28-01-2009 11:48pm

I read about the case on torrentfreak. Didn't think they were going to lose.
Simple way to avoid this though.

galwaytt · 28-01-2009 11:59pm

...what I want to know is, if you're an Eircom customer, how do the music co's get your i.p. address ? And under Data Protection legislation, what gives Eircom the right to give out your info, without your express permission ? Time for that Quango to get up off their butt, methinks......

If by 'posing' as a P2P the music co's set about entrapping people, then surely they are guilty of encouraging the behaviour they are giving out about.....

And, of course, it won't be long before some bright spark will come up with a way to defeat it anyhoo. Anyone want to set up a proxy service outside the jurisdiction ??....exactly..........

mumhaabu · 29-01-2009 12:13am

If history has showed one thing thing then this will be no more than a load of smoke and mirrors, pirates will always be ahead and nomatter what new fangled system they come up with then it will be cracked and the same ethos will continue. DVD's got cracked, then they scrapped DVD-HD because it was cracked and weeks later bluray was cracked, the majority of all music, films are protected software can be found somewhere on the net cracked and open.

These guys are fighting a losing battle which they could win, I firmly belive there should be mass licensing and a type of massive pirate bay of software, music and movies which the public could pay a fee of say €100 or €200/year and allow all you can eat. People already pay premium for special torrents and Rapidshare once the service is fast and the quality good who cares as it is worth it. Centralised data server farms of fibre cores are far more effecient than P2P.

Legalise and profit not prosecute. People will only pay so much & €25 for a 45min cd is just simply taking the p1ss, if information and data became available at a more social cost then the entire world would change and new artists would emerge and new more powerful and better built softwares would emerge with access to the source code, just look at how solid the wikipedia, linux and freeware community is and what it has achieved.

Final Word: Eircom are idiots btw!!!

diaduit73 · 29-01-2009 12:18am

If you use youtube and a website that rips the audio from youtube videos and turns them into mp3's, can you get caught by sony etc doing it that way? and If you use a program that gives you an American IP address on illegal downloading sites can they trace something somehow back to Eircom?

barnicles · 29-01-2009 12:21am

There is a simple way to hide your IP. It's also free.

Scram · 29-01-2009 12:26am

Dam this a bit of a shock, ive read all the post here so far. So this was tried in the US and UK and abandoned?

the_syco · 29-01-2009 12:27am

mobius42 wrote: »

How will the record companies detect you downloading music?

How the **** do you think. They'll join the torrent. They OWN the music, so they're legally allowed to join the torrent. And when they do, BING, they see everyone IP address, with a little flag of their country next to each one. They'll give said IP to eircom, who'll have your IP linked to your home address, as, unlike the RIAA, Eircom will have most likely have your phone number tied to your IP address, and thus know who you are through that.

Scram wrote: »

Dam this a bit of a shock, ive read all the post here so far. So this was tried in the US and UK and abandoned?

No. They tried to make it a law in the UK and USA, and the law failed. Here, they do it by getting the co-operation of the ISP, and thus no law is needed).

jor el · 29-01-2009 12:30am

nuxxx wrote: »

your mom is going to jail!!

Nah im joking, Eircoms default WEP keys are easily cracked, i wouldnt blame anyone for that except eircom ( key is rerived from the router serial code plently of generators out already for them. )

True, that eircom's routers are effectively wide open, but it is the customers responsibility to ensure the security of their broadband connection, and they are responsible for anything that someone else might do with it. It would probably take another case in the courts to shift the blame to eircom for not informing customers properly, and for not making sure the routers were adequately secured in the first place.

I doubt that "my neighbour did it" will get anyone off the hook, even if it was the neighbour.

galwaytt wrote: »

...what I want to know is, if you're an Eircom customer, how do the music co's get your i.p. address ? And under Data Protection legislation, what gives Eircom the right to give out your info, without your express permission ?

eircom won't be giving any details out. The music companies will have a list of IP addresses, that they can match to eircom (or other ISPs), that were found to be sharing music files. They'll then provide the IP addresses to eircom, so that eircom can contact the people who were using that address. The music companies don't get anything, and nobody gets sued. If you ignore three warnings from eircom, they'll disconnect you.

galwaytt wrote: »

If by 'posing' as a P2P the music co's set about entrapping people, then surely they are guilty of encouraging the behaviour they are giving out about.....

Probably entrapment, but since there is no criminal or civil investigation/prosecutions being done, and we don't have anti-entrapment laws in Ireland, it's not an issue. Private companies, and the companies they hire, can do what they like with their own products too.

galwaytt wrote: »

And, of course, it won't be long before some bright spark will come up with a way to defeat it anyhoo. Anyone want to set up a proxy service outside the jurisdiction ??....exactly..........

Yes, as soon as you come up with a better security feature, someone will find a way around it.

In the mean time, the easy way to avoid warnings and disconnections, is stop sharing music that you're not allowed to share.

jor el · 29-01-2009 12:32am

diaduit73 wrote: »

If you use youtube and a website that rips the audio from youtube videos and turns them into mp3's, can you get caught by sony etc doing it that way? and If you use a program that gives you an American IP address on illegal downloading sites can they trace something somehow back to Eircom?

Yes, and under this new law, they can execute you for doing it.

[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

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