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[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

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    #32
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    prob is piracy has totally fecked the music industry, games industry, dvd/movie industry

    that said, i dont really care.. 25 euro for a cd that cost less than 50 cents to make, ye fo

    also if eircom warn me ill post there T&C that they provided me when i first signed up and show them theres nothing about p2p downloads( altho it might be liable to change, there changing the download policy which i dont beleive in covered in that T&C) Ok im not a lawyer but u get my drift :D

    Lads i wouldnt worry tbh, theres at least 5 more stable ways of downloading music or whatever you may be into, its the internet ! How can they stop a world wide neighbourhood :)

    I`ll continuing using torrents unless i get a big scary warning from the cheating money hungry known as eircom

    In fairness they thought this but the 8 days intensivness kinda screwed them!


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    #33
    mobius42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    Judging from how they're going to be detecting file sharers (as explained in Aidan's post above), it would seem that installing peerguardian should be enough to escape detection.


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    #34
    Maximus_Laggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Maximus_Laggus


    It's only Eircom thats rolled over. They have not lost the court case, they settled out of court. Other ISP's will no doubt be targeted now that Eircom has given in. There are really grim prospects for ISP's if big brother can monitor which sites and what content you choose to download!

    Whats more, the news article on Eircoms homepage states that its the record Co's which will provide Eircom with the IP addresses of what it percieves to be illegal downloaders for Eircom to pursue. How is this information available to the record Companies?

    I've no doubt someone will challange the legality of this whole farce eventually. Big chunk of our freedom is on the line here. Whats next!!


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    #35
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    sony has the ps3 with media sharing to know whats on someones network


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    #36
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    mobius42 wrote: »
    Judging from how they're going to be detecting file sharers (as explained in Aidan's post above), it would seem that installing peerguardian should be enough to escape detection.

    not really foolproof either i heard,heard that a court could simply order peer to reveal its i.p's addys


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    #37
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    the thing they are missing with this is the big hole in the security of eircom's wireless modems. There will be a lot of people getting warnings who don't even know what p2p is.


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    #38
    wheresmybeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭wheresmybeaver


    Ah sure it's like the tv licence. You get away with it for a while, then you get a warning, so you buy the licence. IMO, if this thing actually gets implemented, then unless you're downloading like a mad ejit you're probably not even going to get noticed. And even if you are then there's a simple solution to that: start copying CDs again like its 1995! Very retro indeed.

    People will always share music, on the internet or otherwise.


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    #39
    Maximus_Laggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Maximus_Laggus


    Also, how do they police wifi hotspots or unsecured wifi in private homes. My mother had unsecured wifi until I found out recently and secured it. No doubt her neighbours kids were downloading porn and music on a free gravy train for a while there! My mother could have been banned from Eircoms ISP service.


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    #40
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    wheresmybeaver wrote: »
    Ah sure it's like the tv licence. You get away with it for a while, then you get a warning, so you buy the licence. IMO, if this thing actually gets implemented, then unless you're downloading like a mad ejit you're probably not even going to get noticed. And even if you are then there's a simple solution to that: start copying CDs again like its 1995! Very retro indeed.

    People will always share music, on the internet or otherwise.

    thats what caused it in the first place,people where doing that,admitting it and all in forums/chats


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    #41
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    pwd wrote: »
    the thing they are missing with this is the big hole in the secuirty f eircom's wireless modems. There will be a lot of people getting warnings who don't even know what p2p is.

    be alot of people who probably didnt know or understand the statement about eircoms settlement and continue doing it!


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    #42
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Maximus_Laggus wrote: »
    Also, how do they police wifi hotspots or unsecured wifi in private homes. My mother had unsecured wifi until I found out recently and secured it. No doubt her neighbours kids were downloading porn and music on a free gravy train for a while there! My mother could have been banned from Eircoms ISP service.

    your mom is going to jail!!

    Nah im joking, Eircoms default WEP keys are easily cracked, i wouldnt blame anyone for that except eircom :) ( key is rerived from the router serial code :) plently of generators out already for them. )


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    #43
    barnicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭barnicles


    I read about the case on torrentfreak. Didn't think they were going to lose.
    Simple way to avoid this though.


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    #44
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ...what I want to know is, if you're an Eircom customer, how do the music co's get your i.p. address ? And under Data Protection legislation, what gives Eircom the right to give out your info, without your express permission ? Time for that Quango to get up off their butt, methinks......

    If by 'posing' as a P2P the music co's set about entrapping people, then surely they are guilty of encouraging the behaviour they are giving out about.....

    And, of course, it won't be long before some bright spark will come up with a way to defeat it anyhoo. Anyone want to set up a proxy service outside the jurisdiction ??....exactly..........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #45
    mumhaabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭mumhaabu


    If history has showed one thing thing then this will be no more than a load of smoke and mirrors, pirates will always be ahead and nomatter what new fangled system they come up with then it will be cracked and the same ethos will continue. DVD's got cracked, then they scrapped DVD-HD because it was cracked and weeks later bluray was cracked, the majority of all music, films are protected software can be found somewhere on the net cracked and open.

    These guys are fighting a losing battle which they could win, I firmly belive there should be mass licensing and a type of massive pirate bay of software, music and movies which the public could pay a fee of say €100 or €200/year and allow all you can eat. People already pay premium for special torrents and Rapidshare once the service is fast and the quality good who cares as it is worth it. Centralised data server farms of fibre cores are far more effecient than P2P.

    Legalise and profit not prosecute. People will only pay so much & €25 for a 45min cd is just simply taking the p1ss, if information and data became available at a more social cost then the entire world would change and new artists would emerge and new more powerful and better built softwares would emerge with access to the source code, just look at how solid the wikipedia, linux and freeware community is and what it has achieved.

    Final Word: Eircom are idiots btw!!!


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    #46
    diaduit73
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭diaduit73


    If you use youtube and a website that rips the audio from youtube videos and turns them into mp3's, can you get caught by sony etc doing it that way? and If you use a program that gives you an American IP address on illegal downloading sites can they trace something somehow back to Eircom?


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    #47
    barnicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭barnicles


    There is a simple way to hide your IP. It's also free.


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    #48
    Scram
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    Dam this a bit of a shock, ive read all the post here so far. So this was tried in the US and UK and abandoned?


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    #49
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    mobius42 wrote: »
    How will the record companies detect you downloading music?
    How the **** do you think. They'll join the torrent. They OWN the music, so they're legally allowed to join the torrent. And when they do, BING, they see everyone IP address, with a little flag of their country next to each one. They'll give said IP to eircom, who'll have your IP linked to your home address, as, unlike the RIAA, Eircom will have most likely have your phone number tied to your IP address, and thus know who you are through that.
    Scram wrote: »
    Dam this a bit of a shock, ive read all the post here so far. So this was tried in the US and UK and abandoned?
    No. They tried to make it a law in the UK and USA, and the law failed. Here, they do it by getting the co-operation of the ISP, and thus no law is needed).


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    #50
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    nuxxx wrote: »
    your mom is going to jail!!

    Nah im joking, Eircoms default WEP keys are easily cracked, i wouldnt blame anyone for that except eircom :) ( key is rerived from the router serial code :) plently of generators out already for them. )

    True, that eircom's routers are effectively wide open, but it is the customers responsibility to ensure the security of their broadband connection, and they are responsible for anything that someone else might do with it. It would probably take another case in the courts to shift the blame to eircom for not informing customers properly, and for not making sure the routers were adequately secured in the first place.

    I doubt that "my neighbour did it" will get anyone off the hook, even if it was the neighbour.
    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...what I want to know is, if you're an Eircom customer, how do the music co's get your i.p. address ? And under Data Protection legislation, what gives Eircom the right to give out your info, without your express permission ?

    eircom won't be giving any details out. The music companies will have a list of IP addresses, that they can match to eircom (or other ISPs), that were found to be sharing music files. They'll then provide the IP addresses to eircom, so that eircom can contact the people who were using that address. The music companies don't get anything, and nobody gets sued. If you ignore three warnings from eircom, they'll disconnect you.
    galwaytt wrote: »
    If by 'posing' as a P2P the music co's set about entrapping people, then surely they are guilty of encouraging the behaviour they are giving out about.....

    Probably entrapment, but since there is no criminal or civil investigation/prosecutions being done, and we don't have anti-entrapment laws in Ireland, it's not an issue. Private companies, and the companies they hire, can do what they like with their own products too.
    galwaytt wrote: »
    And, of course, it won't be long before some bright spark will come up with a way to defeat it anyhoo. Anyone want to set up a proxy service outside the jurisdiction ??....exactly..........

    Yes, as soon as you come up with a better security feature, someone will find a way around it.

    In the mean time, the easy way to avoid warnings and disconnections, is stop sharing music that you're not allowed to share.


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    #51
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    diaduit73 wrote: »
    If you use youtube and a website that rips the audio from youtube videos and turns them into mp3's, can you get caught by sony etc doing it that way? and If you use a program that gives you an American IP address on illegal downloading sites can they trace something somehow back to Eircom?

    Yes, and under this new law, they can execute you for doing it.


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    #52
    Scram
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    jor el wrote: »
    Yes, and under this new law, they can execute you for doing it.

    Right so if you download a video from youtube, Rip the audio out into an mp3 on your own PC for yourself youll get done?


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    #53
    Westwood
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Westwood


    Tbh this is a disgrace, 4 record companies that release crap now wnat people to buy it? most like me download and peep. if the album is fantastic (once in a blue moon) ill go out and cop that the next day, if it sucks donkies balls and has 1 good track (like usual) You aint getting my money. it has been a sign of the times in the 00s. the music has declined and people dont want to listen to popcorn crap anymore, start making better music and people will suport you!! oh and ear come can eat a fat one (they'll never take me alive)


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    #54
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Microsoft wrote a brilliant paper on this back in 2002:
    http://msl1.mit.edu/ESD10/docs/darknet5.pdf

    The paper basically points out that you will never be able to defeat file sharing and that people will always naturally create Darknets either online or offline.

    They point out that the most effect way of file sharing is something they call the sneakernet, basically people sharing massive hard drives full of mp3's etc. in the school, university, work, etc. and copying the files to their own pc.

    Just think of all those cheap 500GB external hard disk drives floating around the place. And there is absolutely no way for the music industry to find this out or stop it.

    This is a pointless exercise, it won't have hardly any effect. The music industry would be much better off putting it's effort into developing, all you can eat, flat fee, file sharing services.

    BTW Personally I don't know why anyone would even bother to download music any more, what with all the excellent music streaming services like Pandora, last.fm and many internet radio streams, it just seems pointless.


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    #55
    nero1916
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭nero1916


    I'm curious as to how eircom ended up coming to the decision to settle out of court. Why would eircom accept such a deal? What is in it for them? Whether or not the ruling sets a precedent, I feel uneasy that Ireland has become the first country to implement such a device to catch/deter illegal downloading. Why us? Were we an easy target? Are our laws (which has come up time and again in debates in many areas such as gambling, paedophilia and human rights) so old and out-dated that we as a nation can be picked off by the big boys?

    From relying on top of the pops to feed the musical tastes of the masses (and stunting it in my opinion), listeners are now being introduced to a broad range of music styles through the internet. From listening to alot of a little, we now listen to a little of alot. And that can only be a good thing. Having centralised control of music output in my opinion is just wrong. Perhaps I'm being idealistic and foolish to think that the music industry would not protect its massive profits but industries change and I for one will not feel the least bit sorry for them when they're gone.

    The question of how musicians should be paid is a pertinent one. But with more bands then ever before reaching the public, it only bodes well for these acts who may never have had the opportunity if the labels still had the industry sown up. And they can make good money from live gigs and sales from there own sites. Labels are now jostling to sign bands who have already garnered a public and who want to take full advantage to squeeze as much money out of them before dropping them. Its a dog eat dog world and I hope we the public have the labels for breakfast, dinner and tea.

    Before I fall off the topic cliff, I hope we as a nation have further discussions on this topic, and with IP privacy in general. In a democracy I must accept that certain decisions will be made that I will not agree with but I hope EVERYONE is well informed and that this is not swept under the carpet.

    Discuss :)


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    #56
    Ernie Ball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Ernie Ball


    the_syco wrote: »
    How the **** do you think. They'll join the torrent. They OWN the music, so they're legally allowed to join the torrent. And when they do, BING, they see everyone IP address, with a little flag of their country next to each one. They'll give said IP to eircom, who'll have your IP linked to your home address, as, unlike the RIAA, Eircom will have most likely have your phone number tied to your IP address, and thus know who you are through that.

    Three letter response: V P N


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    #57
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    I don't see any change in this, it certainly won't stop me dl'in.

    By this Eircom have just fobbed them off with the "We'll have a word with them"..............."We've a 3 strikes and they're out policy"....................... like all other ISP's do. In reality its dynamic ip, here is no tracability for the music industry, all they'll know is its an Eircom ip address.

    Smart move Eircom, gets them off Your back and saves money on legal costs.


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    #58
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    By this Eircom have just fobbed them off with the "We'll have a word with them"..............."We've a 3 strikes and they're out policy"....................... like all other ISP's do. In reality its dynamic ip, here is no tracability for the music industry, all they'll know is its an Eircom ip address.

    Well afaik all you will need is a date and time to check eircom's log of IP licences and see who was using it at the time?

    Anyways won't really affect me as 1. I'm not on eircom, 2. I rarely use p2p and 3. if I do, I'm not downloading stuff that those 4 companies would be targeting


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    #59
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Scram wrote: »
    Right so if you download a video from youtube, Rip the audio out into an mp3 on your own PC for yourself youll get done?

    Uh. I said that because that poster obviously hadn't read a single word of this thread, or if they did, they didn't understand any of it. This has absolutely nothing to do with Youtube.
    Jev/N wrote: »
    Well afaik all you will need is a date and time to check eircom's log of IP licences and see who was using it at the time?

    eircom will know who's doing what, but they will not be passing this information, or any subscriber details, on to the record companies. The record companies may be able to see the same IP coming up time and again, but because of eircom's DHCP servers, the IPs won't necessarily be from the same person each time. There is no visibility to who is actually sharing the music, from the record companies point of view.


    People need to read, and understand, what's actually happening here, and stop jumping to wild and inaccurate conclusions.


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    #60
    Simi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭Simi


    Am just use peerguardian?


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    #61
    Scram
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    Simi wrote: »
    Am just use peerguardian?

    I used to always use that on XP but i cant it to work on Vista 64:(


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