[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

yoshytoshy

shebop wrote: »

This reads as nothing more than cowardly to me on Eircom's part. How can Eircom customers be saved when they are being dictated as to what they can and can't do online? Let's not forget, a lot of p2p IS legal. It seems realistically much more problematic for record companies (or is it eircom who will have this onus) to fund in resources to be able to determine what files are being lawfully exchanged on p2p networks?

Code, thankfully dictates.

Copyright is an essential tool and of course a very necessary right to creators seeking to protect their work.

HOWEVER, time and time again technology companies show absolute disregard to the essence that is copyright;

e.g. Why suddenly is it ok for record companies to bully ISPs/the consumer against a technological flaw(?)/reality regarding p2p sharing, when, for example, they lay silent on the fact that 18 months ago, according to Irish copyright law, it was ILLEGAL for people to purchase a CD, rip it onto a computer and sync it with their iPod? Why were the record companies not sueing Apple or dishing out legal threats to mp3-player users then?

This boils down to the fact that record companies are bitter and sore about technology they funded to create work against lining their pockets and are using a distorted approach to copyright law to try and rectify things. Copyright and current technology (particularly code) simply open up a whole other kettle of fish that, if properly test, would inevitably work against the record companies. How Eircom nonetheless complied is something else and something their users should be aware of ....

I don't agree with any of your posts ,even though I don't agree with what eircom has done.
There won't be an exodus on eircom ,to be honest I always thought that eircom was doing this already.
This has nothing to do with fear ,piracy is piracy and it gets what it deserves every now and again. Ireland just happens to be the next steppin stone.
Good advertisement for us I say.:)

barnicles

MediaSentry etc. Are the scum of the internet. Think how much wasted bandwidth comes from their decoy files.

yoshytoshy

Fighting Irish wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Thats fighting talk alright.

Tazz T

Only Eircom.

Only in Ireland can you bribe a semi-state company to 'squeal' on its customers.

Rememberr this is the same company that did everything it could to prevent other companies selling broadband to the Irish, so it could continue ripping us off. Eircom is no better off ethically than illegal downloaders, yet the law, as ever, seems to be on its side.

barnicles

Face it, piracy on EIRCOM's network isn't going to be stopped by this.

jor el

shebop wrote: »

This reads as nothing more than cowardly to me on Eircom's part. How can Eircom customers be saved when they are being dictated as to what they can and can't do online? Let's not forget, a lot of p2p IS legal. It seems realistically much more problematic for record companies (or is it eircom who will have this onus) to fund in resources to be able to determine what files are being lawfully exchanged on p2p networks?

People using P2P networs for legal file sharing, have nothing to worry about. You are not being dictated to, as to what you can do online, but if you are involved in illegal activities, then you can expect there to be consequences.

Lets not forget, that on a previous occasion, the courts sided with IRMA, and order all the ISPs to hand over subscriber details. These subscribers were then issued with fines and threats of court proceedings. Letting eircom deal with this, in house, keeping everyone out of court, is a much better deal for everyone. I'd rather get a letter from eircom, telling me to stop sharing U2 albums, than a letter from IRMA, demanding that I pay 50,000 euro for copyright infringement.

shebop

L31mr0d, I'm just interested to know why you are happy with this decision hindering torrent file exchange (which aren't all illegal don't forget), yet are content with using streaming services? I'm assuming all you listen to/watch is being legally streamed?

And as apope has shown, there were always be alternative and new and emerging ways to obtain pirated content (though I doubt the handy tip you've given us apope would be considered 'legal'). Again, an example of technology running away with itself. It still doesn't make it acceptable for record companies to bully the consumer by way of their ISP. Let them target the computer/laptop/hardware companies and software coders (though I have immense respect for you open-source/freeware advocates) that profit from the other end of this alleged illegal conduct before coming in to people's homes (someone mentioned the beboers using limewire types - a fair victim?) and serving them with legal proceedings.

yoshytoshy

barnicles wrote: »

Face it, piracy on EIRCOM's network isn't going to be stopped by this.

Exactly . The music thats released at the moment is crap anyways ,nothing to do with the internet.

watty

All the ISPs will join this scheme as it's a gold plated method to disconnect very heavy users.

There will be no mass exodus.

eircom is NOT "squealing on their customers", they don't tell the Copyright Holders anything. You need a warrant / court order to get the customer details.

Read carefully: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58802979&postcount=139

I'm not offering an opinion as to if it's good or bad. But those are mostly facts, very little opinion.

See also the FAQ on "What Is My IP Address?"
http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/can-someone-find-me
This is why all the RIAA or similar does is give ISP (eircom in this case) the IP and date/time.

shebop

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I don't agree with any of your posts ,even though I don't agree with what eircom has done.
There won't be an exodus on eircom ,to be honest I always thought that eircom was doing this already.
This has nothing to do with fear ,piracy is piracy and it gets what it deserves every now and again. Ireland just happens to be the next steppin stone.
Good advertisement for us I say.:)

Sure, if you want to side with the corrupt and unethical akin to self-regulating bankers, and weak Irish government claiming neutrality only to offer our airports to US military.

It's about ethics and setting examples and neither the record companies nor the likes of Eircom are paving any guiding paths.

Give me consumer power and awareness anyday, even if that too is only an urban myth.

ShooterSF

Fighting Irish wrote: »

in a way stuff like this is good for ireland ,especially if we are to become more competitive in the IT area of business.

:rolleyes:

Of course it will. People will need to to educate themselves on how best to hide their I.P address, well at least make it difficult to be traced, when downloading or even move off torrents to newsgroups and such.
And anything that educates Irish people about how the internet works and how to get round things is only going to make them more I.T aware as such and better skilled to get a job in I.T

lmimmfn

Macros42 wrote: »

I agree - more bandwidth for us usenet leechers

lol, not only that, a lot of people use torrents to download legitimate patches etc. for PC games. Last week i downloaded Fear 2 demo because Gamershell and Fileplanet kept dropping the connection

The fact that p2p users flood the network is pretty irrelevant( apart from those downloading 200+GB per month which i would say represent a small proportion of net users ) simply because moving forward more and more bandwidth is required to deliver services.

There are a lot of Steam users out there downloading 6-12gigs regulary for purchased games and with iPlayer, skys player and moves like this http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11741&Itemid=1 networks are going to need more and more bandwidth.

jor el

Tazz T wrote: »

Only in Ireland can you bribe a semi-state company to 'squeal' on its customers.

eircom is not a semi state company, it is a private company. I also hope you have some way of backing up these allegations of bribery, as there has been no mention of payments or financial settlements.

barnicles

http://torrentfreak.com/isp-capitulates-to-ifpi-agrees-to-disconnect-pirates-090128/
Torrent freak articles

L31mr0d

shebop wrote: »

L31mr0d, I'm just interested to know why you are happy with this decision hindering torrent file exchange (which aren't all illegal don't forget), yet are content with using streaming services? I'm assuming all you listen to/watch is being legally streamed?

You misunderstand, I'm not against downloading, I'm against torrents which flood networks with open connections. I wasn't playing the holier than thou card, I was saying there are faster, more efficient ways to download other than p2p.

barnicles

Well, when DSL comes to my area, Eircom have lost a future customer.

shebop

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Exactly . The music thats released at the moment is crap anyways ,nothing to do with the internet.

lol it's true, still, comes in handy when you're not in the mood for the cinema and fancy seeing a film! :P

Ah piracy aside (and that is not what I am advocating here at all), my point in brief is, let the record companies sort out the technology first (i.e. the computers and ipods that assist us in our illegal downloads) before coming down on the people ...

20goto10

Will be interesting to see BTs take on this. They're well aware of illegal downloaders and their generous 100GB fair usage policy is testament to the fact they are downloader friendly. They're also a British company, where this has been deemed illegal.

thebman

Anyone thinking eircom just agreed they'd do it if they could show it was the user. I.e. they'll just claim they can't be certain so they don't have to do anything.

yoshytoshy

ShooterSF wrote: »

Of course it will. People will need to to educate themselves on how best to hide their I.P address, well at least make it difficult to be traced, when downloading or even move off torrents to newsgroups and such.
And anything that educates Irish people about how the internet works and how to get round things is only going to make them more I.T aware as such and better skilled to get a job in I.T

It's a suggestion of responsibility on us to sort out an important subject.
Its not about spotty teens with psuedo names on the internet , it's about looking back next year and saying we made a decision on something important.

barnicles

L31mr0d wrote: »

You misunderstand, I'm not against downloading, I'm against torrents which flood networks with open connections. I wasn't playing the holier than thou card, I was saying there are faster, more efficient ways to download other than p2p.

P2P works because it eliminates the need for expensive servers.

ZeRoY

Macros42 wrote: »

I agree - more bandwidth for us usenet leechers

Exactly -- and here is the real problem. Stopping P2P will only transfer any traffic used onto another scheme (Usenet/Rapidshare you name it).

Whats required is a "download tax/subscription" that the users can pay in order to download any content. Proceed then go to the Movie/Music association - even a small fee of 5€/month would probably generate more income than what they are making on music+movie combined!

But they arent that smart ...

shebop

L31mrod, gotcha, and apologies for jumping to the assumption-gun. Am rather annoyed by all of this, and I've no idea why - eircom aren't even assed to serve my area with broadband!

PaddyTheNth

apope8 wrote: »

Much easier way to download music.
1) Find a public music video on youtube
2) Download the video using realplayer or something else.
3) Use a program like total video converter to extract the audio as an mp3!

Takes about 2mins altogether!

Done, Dusted, Legal!!!

Pretty crap music quality though.

barnicles

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

Pretty crap music quality though.

+1 Extremely crap!:)

christophicus

ZeRoY wrote: »

Exactly -- and here is the real problem. Stopping P2P will only transfer any traffic used onto another scheme (Usenet/Rapidshare you name it).

My understanding of this ( and I am open to correction ) is that a rapidshare connections is MUCH more efficient then a P2P connection with hundreds of peers, so even if it does just cause people to move from P2P to rapidshare, then it will still help the network overall.

watty

ZeRoY wrote: »

Whats required is a "download tax/subscription" that the users can pay in order to download any content. Proceed then go to the Movie/Music association - even a small fee of 5€/month would probably generate more income than what they are making on music+movie combined!

What! Have 80% of users pay for the downloads of 20%? How is that fair?

No thanks. I for one will not pay an Internet Downloading Tax.

It would also destroy innovation, creativity etc. as it becomes general revenue to the labels and very little to established artists and almost none to new artists.

Edit:
It's an ongoing battle. The 3rd parties that supply the IPs to RIAA etc. will infiltrate all sharing methods. Even use trojans and root kits on your PC. It's not just about bittorrent. No where does it say that is what is getting targeted.

Basq

apope8 wrote: »

Much easier way to download music.
1) Find a public music video on youtube
2) Download the video using realplayer or something else.
3) Use a program like total video converter to extract the audio as an mp3!

Takes about 2mins altogether!

Done, Dusted, Legal!!!

Why not just hold a tape recorder up to the radio speaker?!

barnicles

basquille wrote: »

Why not just hold a tape recorder up to the radio speaker?!

Or connect the radio to the computer!

Winters

apope8 wrote: »

Much easier way to download music.
1) Find a public music video on youtube
2) Download the video using realplayer or something else.
3) Use a program like total video converter to extract the audio as an mp3!

Takes about 2mins altogether!

Done, Dusted, Legal!!!

I hope you get disconnected first for being such a knob jockey. Crappy quality music is not what most of us wish to listen to.

The actions of these 3rd party's in gaining the required information through possible dodgy/illegal methods is question for concern. However there is always hope that someone might dump a database of several months worth of emails and internal software up on torrent... isint there MediaSentury.