Cultural Impact of Gaelscoils

Gaelgangnuis · 09-02-2015 7:22pm

recedite wrote: »

Everybody is banging on about gay rights these days, but who will stick up for the traditional sport of gay-bashing?

Colaiste Eoin cancelled an anti-homophobic bullying talk because it wanted both points of view to be represented.
Then, following adverse publicity and a mini student revolt, decided that the talk was merely postponed, not cancelled.

One of the most worrying aspects of this is that a lot of the parents are actually teachers in other schools. If they are behind the "regressive" school policy of this school, what "cultural impact" are they having as staff members in other more forward looking and tolerant schools?

The saving grace is the pupils themselves, and how they have refused to accept the bigotry being passed down to them by the previous generation.

The story turns out to be quite different than was first reported in the English Language Media.

The issue seems to be that a mistake resulted in some parents being informed of the workshop only a few days beforehand (as opposed to two weeks which is the normal school practice). Some parents raised concerns and the school decided to postpone the workshop so that these could be discussed with the parents (hearing both sides) rather than ignoring the parents and going ahead with the workshop regardless.

There was no revolt by students and when the wearing of an LGBT symbol to school was reported as being an intended 'revolt' by an over eager media, the students decided not to go ahead with it, as that was not their intent. Indeed the principle later got a standing ovation from his students for his handling of the situation in the face of all the pressure heaped on him.

The school and its management have a good track record in the promotion of anti-bulling and equality and the group in question had run other workshops in the school previously. This is an issue of a school deciding not to ignore the concerns of some parents, which was blown out of any kind of reasonable proportion by a media that seems to have been too ready to believe the worst of a long established Irish medium school.

So, no gay bashing, no student revolt, no regressive school policy.

catbear · 09-02-2015 7:27pm

If he replied to the media in Irish there'd be no story!

Gaelgangnuis · 09-02-2015 7:31pm

catbear wrote: »

If he replied to the media in Irish there'd be no story!

He did, full article on tuairisc.ie
'Príomhoide Choláiste Eoin ‘an-churtha amach’ ag tuairisc mhíchruinn faoin scoil.'

katydid · 09-02-2015 9:40pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

He did, full article on tuairisc.ie
'Príomhoide Choláiste Eoin ‘an-churtha amach’ ag tuairisc mhíchruinn faoin scoil.'

Didn't exactly make "It Says In The Papers"...

recedite · 09-02-2015 10:51pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

There was no revolt by students and when the wearing of an LGBT symbol to school was reported as being an intended 'revolt' by an over eager media, the students decided not to go ahead with it

It was referred to as a "protest" in the media linked to on this thread. Which would be a fair description, if they were wearing LGBT badges and colours that are not part of the official school uniform.
I'll take your word for it that the protest was called off. I've checked your link, but sadly Google translate leaves me none the wiser....

He said that some of the parents stated that the workshop was concerned about "Catholic ethos" of the school...
...Media stories yesterday also organize Johns College students protest today with the news of the workshop, but now it is reported that this occurred.

:pac:

Ah well, at least I learned a new word that wasn't taught back when I was at school; homafóbach.

dubhthach · 10-02-2015 10:32am

katydid wrote: »

Didn't exactly make "It Says In The Papers"...

Depends on what radio station you listen to at 8am in the morning

katydid · 10-02-2015 10:33am

dubhthach wrote: »

Depends on what radio station you listen to at 8am in the morning

Well, not too many listen to RnG, let's face it...

dubhthach · 10-02-2015 10:48am

katydid wrote: »

Well, not too many listen to RnG, let's face it...

And if a tree falls in a forest and Katy didn't see it fall, did it really fall?

But sure given that it's a "local radio station" for the Gaeltacht (the hint is in the name it isn't "Raidió na Gaeilge" after all), are we surprised that it isn't up there competing with Bearloirí stations such as Newtalk? Of course it makes a change having a public service station that doesn't demean itself with commercials alá the rest of RTÉ.

katydid · 10-02-2015 10:58am

dubhthach wrote: »

And if a tree falls in a forest and Katy didn't see it fall, did it really fall?

But sure given that it's a "local radio station" for the Gaeltacht (the hint is in the name it isn't "Raidió na Gaeilge" after all), are we surprised that it isn't up there competing with Bearloirí stations such as Newtalk? Of course it makes a change having a public service station that doesn't demean itself with commercials alá the rest of RTÉ.

It only fell for the handful of people who saw it fall

I'm not surprised that few people listen to it. Just pointing out that it's got a limited listenership. (Mind you, if the government were really concerned about getting people to use Irish, it would be an Irish language service for everyone, not just those living in the Gaeltacht...)

dubhthach · 10-02-2015 11:06am

katydid wrote: »

It only fell for the handful of people who saw it fall

I'm not surprised that few people listen to it. Just pointing out that it's got a limited listenership. (Mind you, if the government were really concerned about getting people to use Irish, it would be an Irish language service for everyone, not just those living in the Gaeltacht...)

Given that it was created out of result of the Gaeltacht civil rights movement and in response to pirate radio stations setup in the Gaeltacht they had their hands forced on the issue. As a result it was the first local radio station setup in this state. It's remit doesn't include reaching out to Bearloirí in the Galltacht.

Of course there are alternatives such as Radió na Life if you live in Dublin which is a fully independent radio station.

MayoAreMagic · 10-02-2015 11:42am

Maybe Im in the minority, but I'd be far more concerned with my children spending time with maths than learning irish, because maths is a universal language. If learning a second language is good for a child, then get them learning German, Spanish or French. The bottom line is this, those skills will set them up for life in a huge range of areas, far more-so than someone who spends that time learning irish. Give them a background in irish, but don't sacrifice those career building blocks for the sake of it.

At the end of the day, the only position created from having irish, is teaching other people irish, and those people will be, in the main other irish people. There will never be fortunes made in that, there will never be new inventions to be engineered or diseases cured. There will be little use for creativity or ingenuity using irish alone.

I have worked with people who grew up in irish speaking areas. The three things they had in common were this, they all spoke good irish, none of them used it except the odd weekend they went home, and they all said they wished they had spent more time with things they could actually use instead.

katydid · 10-02-2015 12:04pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Given that it was created out of result of the Gaeltacht civil rights movement and in response to pirate radio stations setup in the Gaeltacht they had their hands forced on the issue. As a result it was the first local radio station setup in this state. It's remit doesn't include reaching out to Bearloirí in the Galltacht.

Of course there are alternatives such as Radió na Life if you live in Dublin which is a fully independent radio station.

My point is that maybe it SHOULD reach out beyond the Gaeltacht. There is no national Irish language radio station, with discussion of issues of concern to all.

No everyone outside the Gaeltacht lives in Dublin.

MRnotlob606 · 10-02-2015 12:12pm

There are many economic benefits of bilingualism.

katydid · 10-02-2015 12:15pm

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

There are many economic benefits of bilingualism.

There are indeed. But there is something to be said for developing bilingualism in a language that is of practical use in the world.

Having said that, no reason why someone can't learn more than two languages...

catbear · 10-02-2015 12:34pm

The teaching of Irish is not education, it has since the foundation of the state been a political project.
It took mass immigration for the recent growth of Irish schools.
This mass movent is at its peak as parents now prioritise educational opportunities that maximise their children's employment prospects.
Plenty of graduates have recently emigrated with perfect Irish but its not their Irish that pays their way.

Gaelgangnuis · 10-02-2015 6:31pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Maybe Im in the minority, but I'd be far more concerned with my children spending time with maths than learning irish, because maths is a universal language. If learning a second language is good for a child, then get them learning German, Spanish or French. The bottom line is this, those skills will set them up for life in a huge range of areas, far more-so than someone who spends that time learning irish. Give them a background in irish, but don't sacrifice those career building blocks for the sake of it.

At the end of the day, the only position created from having irish, is teaching other people irish, and those people will be, in the main other irish people. There will never be fortunes made in that, there will never be new inventions to be engineered or diseases cured. There will be little use for creativity or ingenuity using irish alone.

I have worked with people who grew up in irish speaking areas. The three things they had in common were this, they all spoke good irish, none of them used it except the odd weekend they went home, and they all said they wished they had spent more time with things they could actually use instead.

I'm not aware of Maths etc being 'sacrificed' in Gaelscoils, in fact what evidence there is points to Irish medium schools doing as well if not better in these areas than English medium schools.

There are plenty of jobs in which Irish is used besides teaching the language, there is a vibrant tele-visual industry in Irish both here and in NI these days for example.

As for 'there will never be new inventions to be engineered or diseases cured. There will be little use for creativity or ingenuity using irish', you should have seen some of the wonderful projects entered in the BT Young Scientist by Gaeltacht and Irish Medium schools, done through Irish.

Gaelgangnuis · 10-02-2015 6:53pm

As for the question of the thread itself, its hard to tell yet, the movement is still in its infancy.

Pupils who started out in Gaelscoileanna this year are a significantly bigger group than the cohort who have come out the other side of Irish medium education this year. When those who left this year started in Irish medium education entered the system, the number of pupils in Gaelscoileanna was only just over half what it has since grown to. The cohort who were leaving back when they were starting was a much smaller group again.

While the Gaelscoil movement has grown to represent a not insignificant sector of education, it has not yet had time to filter up in the age profile to any significant degree.
Around 6% of school goers are now Gaelscoil students, but the percentage gets smaller as you go up in each age bracket, those now in their twenties now have a smaller percentage of former Gaelscoil students in their ranks, those in their forties now would include less than 1 percent of former Gaelscoil pupils.

The vast majority of Gaelscoil entrants are still first generation, former Gaelscoil pupils sending their own children to a Gaelscoil is only starting to become a thing.
That said, while small, the impact can be seen, the younger generations, the generations that include more Gaelscoil pupils/former pupils tend to be more favorable and competent in the Irish language.
Universities are starting to see a sizable former Gaelscoil population moving onto third level and at the same time Irish Language societies in universities have undergone an explosion over the last few years, fueled largely by an influx of fluent Irish speaking former Gaelscoil pupils.

Earlier in the thread there was criticism based on the fact that many current and former gaelscoil pupils don't use Irish outside of/after leaving school, this is undeniably true. But it is also true that Gaelscoil pupils/former pupils ability in Irish is much higher higher than the general population and their likely hood to speak Irish beyond school is also much higher than the general population.

As this cohort of the population continues to grow over coming years, it can only mean greater competence in and use of the Irish language in the population as a whole.

katydid · 10-02-2015 6:56pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

A
As this cohort of the population continues to grow over coming years, it can only mean greater competence in and use of the Irish language in the population as a whole.

Not necessarily. Unless it is used in daily life, there is no guarantee of a correlation between the two. It MAY be that increased competence amongst an increase number of people, but given that business and social intercourse in Ireland is carried on outside the Gaeltacht 99% in English, there's a long way to go

Gaelgangnuis · 10-02-2015 7:00pm

katydid wrote: »

Not necessarily. Unless it is used in daily life, there is no guarantee of a correlation between the two. It MAY be that increased competence amongst an increase number of people, but given that business and social intercourse in Ireland is carried on outside the Gaeltacht 99% in English, there's a long way to go

Sorry, but made up % figures prove nothing.

You can choose to believe that former Gaelscoil pupils on average are no more likely to use Irish in daily life than the population as a whole, personally I know that they do, not in all individual cases of course, but on average its clear that they do.

katydid · 10-02-2015 7:06pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

Sorry, but made up % figures prove nothing.

You can choose to believe that former Gaelscoil pupils on average are no more likely to use Irish in daily life than the population as a whole, personally I know that they do, not in all individual cases of course, but on average its clear that they do.

It's not made up figures. I was going to say 100%, but I thought I'd be fair. There are the cupla focail at the beginning of the odd speeches. Other than that, where is Irish used in our everyday lives in Ireland outside of the Gaeltacht?

I didn't say that former Gaelscoil pupils are no more likely to use Irish in daily life - I'm sure they would be happy to, were there occasions. But there are not.

Gaelgangnuis · 10-02-2015 7:12pm

katydid wrote: »

It's not made up figures. I was going to say 100%, but I thought I'd be fair. There are the cupla focail at the beginning of the odd speeches. Other than that, where is Irish used in our everyday lives in Ireland outside of the Gaeltacht?

I didn't say that former Gaelscoil pupils are no more likely to use Irish in daily life - I'm sure they would be happy to, were there occasions. But there are not.

Sorry, but you have your head in the sand at this point. You can refuse to recognize that there is an Irish speaking community in Ireland, but that does not mean they don't exist and to those of us who speak Irish as part of their every day lives, the above looks like nothing more than ignorant (in the uninformed sense of the word) nonsense.

eire4 · 10-02-2015 7:21pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Maybe Im in the minority, but I'd be far more concerned with my children spending time with maths than learning irish, because maths is a universal language. If learning a second language is good for a child, then get them learning German, Spanish or French. The bottom line is this, those skills will set them up for life in a huge range of areas, far more-so than someone who spends that time learning irish. Give them a background in irish, but don't sacrifice those career building blocks for the sake of it.

At the end of the day, the only position created from having irish, is teaching other people irish, and those people will be, in the main other irish people. There will never be fortunes made in that, there will never be new inventions to be engineered or diseases cured. There will be little use for creativity or ingenuity using irish alone.

I have worked with people who grew up in irish speaking areas. The three things they had in common were this, they all spoke good irish, none of them used it except the odd weekend they went home, and they all said they wished they had spent more time with things they could actually use instead.

A legitimate point you make if you have any facts rather then conjecture to back up the suggestion your making that taking time to learn Irish hurts students in Gaelscoil and their ability to do well in subjetcs Maths or other EU languages.

katydid · 10-02-2015 8:33pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

Sorry, but you have your head in the sand at this point. You can refuse to recognize that there is an Irish speaking community in Ireland, but that does not mean they don't exist and to those of us who speak Irish as part of their every day lives, the above looks like nothing more than ignorant (in the uninformed sense of the word) nonsense.

Let's keep it real, the Irish speaking community outside the Gaeltacht could hold their AGM in a phone box.

eire4 · 10-02-2015 8:43pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

As for the question of the thread itself, its hard to tell yet, the movement is still in its infancy.

Pupils who started out in Gaelscoileanna this year are a significantly bigger group than the cohort who have come out the other side of Irish medium education this year. When those who left this year started in Irish medium education entered the system, the number of pupils in Gaelscoileanna was only just over half what it has since grown to. The cohort who were leaving back when they were starting was a much smaller group again.

While the Gaelscoil movement has grown to represent a not insignificant sector of education, it has not yet had time to filter up in the age profile to any significant degree.
Around 6% of school goers are now Gaelscoil students, but the percentage gets smaller as you go up in each age bracket, those now in their twenties now have a smaller percentage of former Gaelscoil students in their ranks, those in their forties now would include less than 1 percent of former Gaelscoil pupils.

The vast majority of Gaelscoil entrants are still first generation, former Gaelscoil pupils sending their own children to a Gaelscoil is only starting to become a thing.
That said, while small, the impact can be seen, the younger generations, the generations that include more Gaelscoil pupils/former pupils tend to be more favorable and competent in the Irish language.
Universities are starting to see a sizable former Gaelscoil population moving onto third level and at the same time Irish Language societies in universities have undergone an explosion over the last few years, fueled largely by an influx of fluent Irish speaking former Gaelscoil pupils.

Earlier in the thread there was criticism based on the fact that many current and former gaelscoil pupils don't use Irish outside of/after leaving school, this is undeniably true. But it is also true that Gaelscoil pupils/former pupils ability in Irish is much higher higher than the general population and their likely hood to speak Irish beyond school is also much higher than the general population.

As this cohort of the population continues to grow over coming years, it can only mean greater competence in and use of the Irish language in the population as a whole.

I would tend to agree with you and see the growing popularity of Gaelscoil as a positive. Certainly it will take time and a few generations of kids who grew up with it having kids themselves but I think it is great to see steps in that direction happening.

Grudaire · 10-02-2015 10:24pm

katydid wrote: »

Let's keep it real, the Irish speaking community outside the Gaeltacht could hold their AGM in a phone box.

If anything this thread should discuss the societal and cultural impact of the anti Irish language cohort who appear with made up facts to fight Irish speakers in every battlefield! :PAC:

But seriously, this topic has potential. Perhaps gaelscoileanna increase the level of Irish spoken and culture in an area.. Perhaps not. Instead it's been bogged down with spurious Arguments against the language, and no comparison to other schools (English speaking)..

katydid · 10-02-2015 10:51pm

Grudaire wrote: »

If anything this thread should discuss the societal and cultural impact of the anti Irish language cohort who appear with made up facts to fight Irish speakers in every battlefield! :PAC:

But seriously, this topic has potential. Perhaps gaelscoileanna increase the level of Irish spoken and culture in an area.. Perhaps not. Instead it's been bogged down with spurious Arguments against the language, and no comparison to other schools (English speaking)..

Er, there's a discussion on literalism in one of the religion forums...

eire4 · 10-02-2015 11:08pm

Grudaire wrote: »

If anything this thread should discuss the societal and cultural impact of the anti Irish language cohort who appear with made up facts to fight Irish speakers in every battlefield! :PAC:

But seriously, this topic has potential. Perhaps gaelscoileanna increase the level of Irish spoken and culture in an area.. Perhaps not. Instead it's been bogged down with spurious Arguments against the language, and no comparison to other schools (English speaking)..

I do have to say it is interesting that some seem very hostile toward the Irish language.

Its as if well if Irish cannot become a major language that is dominant in all aspects of life then we should forget it completely.

Personally our language is something I treasure from a cultural standpoint at the very least and if the current growth in Gaelscoil ever developed to the point where most Irish people were at least bilingual I think that would be great. Will that every happen I have no idea. Certainly it would take a long time to develop to anything like that level.

katydid · 10-02-2015 11:54pm

eire4 wrote: »

Its as if well if Irish cannot become a major language that is dominant in all aspects of life then we should forget it completely.

.

No, it means that we should be realistic and stop pretending that the Gaelscoileanna will turn Irish into a language of everyday usage in Ireland.

Grudaire · 11-02-2015 7:47am

katydid wrote: »

No, it means that we should be realistic and stop pretending that the Gaelscoileanna will turn Irish into a language of everyday usage in Ireland.

I think in my experience (as a former Gaelscoiler) that Gaelscoileanna leave students with increased fluency and interest in the language, and that levels of usage are higher as a result.

It already is a language of everyday usage for a minority in Ireland, I don't see anyone making an argument that it will become the major language here. I'm not quite sure what point you're arguing against?

katydid · 11-02-2015 9:54am

Grudaire wrote: »

I think in my experience (as a former Gaelscoiler) that Gaelscoileanna leave students with increased fluency and interest in the language, and that levels of usage are higher as a result.

It already is a language of everyday usage for a minority in Ireland, I don't see anyone making an argument that it will become the major language here. I'm not quite sure what point you're arguing against?

That it's not going to become a language of everyday use by a substantial group of people outside the Gaeltacht, which is the suggestion here.

Students will of course leave school with fluency in the language they were schooled in, but if it's not used on a daily basis that proficiency will soon fade.

Gaelgangnuis · 11-02-2015 12:15pm

katydid wrote: »

No, it means that we should be realistic and stop pretending that the Gaelscoileanna will turn Irish into a language of everyday usage in Ireland.

Irish is already a language of everyday usage in Ireland. I use it every day, so does my girlfriend, most of my friends do to.
That you are unaware of this, or choose not to accept it make not the slightest bit of difference to this.

eire4 · 11-02-2015 6:34pm

katydid wrote: »

No, it means that we should be realistic and stop pretending that the Gaelscoileanna will turn Irish into a language of everyday usage in Ireland.

Irish is a language of everday use for a minority in Ireland right now today. If the current growth of Gaelscoileanna can continue and increase the everyday use of Irish I think that is great boon for us as a society and even if it doesn't make a significant difference in terms of everyday use I still think its great to see a higher number of people grow up into adulthood with a firm grasp of our language.

Are you suggesting that because Irish is an everyday language used only by a minority in Ireland that we should shut down Gaelscoileanna and stop teaching Irish in our schools?

ezra_pound · 11-02-2015 6:58pm

katydid wrote: »

Let's keep it real, the Irish speaking community outside the Gaeltacht could hold their AGM in a phone box.

That's more rhetoric than reality in fairness.

eire4 · 11-02-2015 7:04pm

katydid wrote: »

Let's keep it real, the Irish speaking community outside the Gaeltacht could hold their AGM in a phone box.

What strikes me as real about that comment is the mocking tone of the post which shows your attitude to Irish loud and clear.

Dr Strange · 11-02-2015 8:15pm

OK guys, let's tone it down a bit and come back to the topic, please.

Crann na Beatha · 11-02-2015 8:25pm

This post has been deleted.

dubhthach · 11-02-2015 8:32pm

Phoenix wrote: »

It worries me that the unintended consequence of how Irish is taught with gaelscoileanna is that it may be soley seen as an upper middle class language rather than a language for everyone

Let half the Gaelscoileanna are in what would be traditionally regarded as "working class areas" for example Cabra, Crumlin, Ballymun, Coolock and Clondalkin all have Gaelscoileanna.

It's kinda ironic people going on with the "snobby" argument given that for years people told us that it was a peasant language. I recall reading a blog post from an american learner who while in Dingle got into conversation with a local, the local who could speak Irish basically said "why would I speak a fisherman's/peasants language?" (this is in the last 5 years by the way)

Crann na Beatha · 11-02-2015 8:35pm

This post has been deleted.

katydid · 11-02-2015 8:43pm

Gaelgangnuis wrote: »

Irish is already a language of everyday usage in Ireland. I use it every day, so does my girlfriend, most of my friends do to.
That you are unaware of this, or choose not to accept it make not the slightest bit of difference to this.

Being used every day doesn't make it a language of national use. I suspect more people use Polish every day in Ireland than use Irish. Fair play to those who use Irish, I'm delighted for them. But they are fooling themselves if they think it means anything more than that it is a limited interest in it.

hoodwinked · 11-02-2015 9:01pm

katydid wrote: »

That it's not going to become a language of everyday use by a substantial group of people outside the Gaeltacht, which is the suggestion here.

Students will of course leave school with fluency in the language they were schooled in, but if it's not used on a daily basis that proficiency will soon fade.

after i left school (Gaelscoil/Gaelcholáiste) i used the language at every oppertunity, when i had my child, i raised her bilingually and my husband (english language primary and secondary) also speaks it.

nether one of our families have a history of speaking irish, my mother chose to send me to a Gaelscoil simply because she had a choice of two schools and the teachers who taught her were still teaching in one of those choices and she felt my schooling would be negatively impacted because of this. She learned irish as i did and can speak it to this day,

my child has just started in junior infants in my former Gaelscoil and any other children we have will go there, one group of irish speakers who speak it on a daily basis, all stemming from me alone being sent to a Gaelscoil.

katydid · 11-02-2015 9:02pm

hoodwinked wrote: »

after i left school (Gaelscoil/Gaelcholáiste) i used the language at every oppertunity, when i had my child, i raised her bilingually and my husband (english language primary and secondary) also speaks it.

nether one of our families have a history of speaking irish, my mother chose to send me to a Gaelscoil simply because she had a choice of two schools and the teachers who taught her were still teaching in one of those choices and she felt my schooling would be negatively impacted because of this. She learned irish as i did and can speak it to this day,

my child has just started in junior infants in my former Gaelscoil and any other children we have will go there, one group of irish speakers who speak it on a daily basis, all stemming from me alone being sent to a Gaelscoil.

They will speak it at home and in school.

byhookorbycrook · 11-02-2015 9:10pm

ezra_pound wrote: »

I would be very surprised if there is any gael Scoil that does not favour people who have Irish in the home.

We don't, and I certainly don't agree with that idea, it excludes many people who would be interested in having their children learn the language. We have children from all kinds of backgrounds, all religions and none. The nonsense of snobbery encouraging parents to choose Gaelscoileanna, perpetuated by David McWilliams, drives me bananas.

byhookorbycrook · 11-02-2015 9:18pm

katydid wrote: »

Sure, the denominations own the buildings, but all the Dept. has to do is to add up the cost of what it has spent on extensions, building maintenance, caretaking and so on over the years, and offer to accept the deeds of the building in lieu....

Our school is not owned by the Catholic church. It is DES owned.

katydid · 11-02-2015 11:43pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our school is not owned by the Catholic church. It is DES owned.

All the more reason

Gaelgangnuis · 12-02-2015 3:39pm

katydid wrote: »

All the more reason

For what?

eire4 · 12-02-2015 8:43pm

katydid wrote: »

Being used every day doesn't make it a language of national use. I suspect more people use Polish every day in Ireland than use Irish. Fair play to those who use Irish, I'm delighted for them. But they are fooling themselves if they think it means anything more than that it is a limited interest in it.

To be fair to gaelgangnuis he said a language of everyday use he did not say language of nation use. He is correct that there are some who use Irish as part of their normal everyday life.
In terms of the Polish dig it is unfortunate that you continue to mock the Irish language. If its not your thing fair enough but it is an important part of our culture and our heritage.

katydid · 12-02-2015 9:11pm

eire4 wrote: »

To be fair to gaelgangnuis he said a language of everyday use he did not say language of nation use. He is correct that there are some who use Irish as part of their normal everyday life.
In terms of the Polish dig it is unfortunate that you continue to mock the Irish language. If its not your thing fair enough but it is an important part of our culture and our heritage.

Fair enough, he said everyday use. Pointing out that there is probably more Polish spoken as an everyday language in Ireland than Irish outside of the Gaeltacht is simply a fact. How on earth could it be mocking Irish?

I love Irish, it just doesn't feature anywhere in my life.

eire4 · 12-02-2015 10:29pm

katydid wrote: »

Fair enough, he said everyday use. Pointing out that there is probably more Polish spoken as an everyday language in Ireland than Irish outside of the Gaeltacht is simply a fact. How on earth could it be mocking Irish?

I love Irish, it just doesn't feature anywhere in my life.

There may or may not be more Polish spoken in Ireland. I do not profess to know if that is or is not the case. You however provide no evidence for your claim that you have now presented as "fact" moving from what you said you "suspect" previously.

For someone who claims to love Irish you sure like to mock it.

"Let's keep it real, the Irish speaking community outside the Gaeltacht could hold their AGM in a phone box. "

I will ask again a question I asked earlier that you chose to ignore:

Are you suggesting that because Irish is an everyday language used only by a minority in Ireland that we should shut down Gaelscoileanna and stop teaching Irish in our schools?

recedite · 12-02-2015 10:51pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our school is not owned by the Catholic church. It is DES owned.

The context of the conversation was whether a publicly funded school should promote a particular religious ethos.
So your school is publicly owned as well as publicly funded. What is its ethos listed as?

ezra_pound · 12-02-2015 10:58pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

We don't, and I certainly don't agree with that idea, it excludes many people who would be interested in having their children learn the language. We have children from all kinds of backgrounds, all religions and none. The nonsense of snobbery encouraging parents to choose Gaelscoileanna, perpetuated by David McWilliams, drives me bananas.

Alright alright calm down.

Of course gaelscoileanna favour people who speak Irish in the home. What's more they explicitly express this favour in their admissions policies.

There's nothing wrong with not speaking Irish in the home but your chances of being admitted are greater if you do because it is favoured.

What I said is:
Quote: ezra_pound
I would be very surprised if there is any gael Scoil that does not favour people who have Irish in the home.

Cultural Impact of Gaelscoils

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