Completely Put Off Having Children

c.p.w.g.w · 27-05-2020 3:23pm

It's the whole risk of having a special needs child...i think too many folks are afraid to be honest about it...if you have a child who is severely disabled your life is pretty much over...If they are able to live a normal length life, you spend your last years stressing and worrying who takes care of them when i'm gone...in Iceland they seem to have refreshing honesty about this

cgcsb · 27-05-2020 3:23pm

Fourier wrote: »

It's not just that there are several things better, it's that in most studies that assess the globe from several perspectives like the HDI from the UN and several others now is better overall.

In 1990 there were similar environmental issues that suggested a poor outlook, see all the apocalyptic fiction inspired by the ozone hole. Is there anything to suggest (objectively) that the outlook was better in 1990?

As far as I can see there isn't. This isn't to say the 90s were terrible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_of_the_Atomic_Scientists

these guys do a lot of the outlook stuff. By 1990 CFGs had been banned across the world for 10 years and the ozone layer was in repair. Global warming wasn't fully understood.

kowloon · 27-05-2020 3:24pm

wildwillow wrote: »

Not all children grow up and leave to have their own lives. Some have serious medical or special needs and your entire life changes to care from them. I went through the heartache of losing a child to cancer.

****, that's awful, sorry you had to go through that.

facehugger99 · 27-05-2020 3:30pm

My kids inspire me to be the person they think I am.

Fourier · 27-05-2020 3:34pm

cgcsb wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_of_the_Atomic_Scientists

these guys do a lot of the outlook stuff. By 1990 CFGs had been banned across the world for 10 years and the ozone layer was in repair. Global warming wasn't fully understood.

Ozone levels only stabilised in the mid-90s, the relevant products had only been banned in 1989 and it wasn't known if things would stabilise.

Anyway that still doesn't show the 90s were "better" in any clear objective sense. The doomsday clock is not only widely criticised but only surveys a narrow set of issues.

Even the Wikipedia article mentions clear problems with it. Like how the clock was closer to midnight in 2007 when nothing major was going on than it was during the Cuban missile crisis when the world was on the verge of nuclear war.

I'm not saying things are perfect now, but looking at a range of studies I don't see this being some clear cut "now is worse" given things like the HDI.

joe40 · 27-05-2020 3:43pm

BrownFinger wrote: »

Not true.
I know a few that straight up say they regret it.
It's actually refreshing to hear.

The thing is as well when people have kids they usually get quite attached to them and won't say they regret it.

That doesn't mean they would not be happy without kids, if the kids never existed.

Foweva Awone · 27-05-2020 3:50pm

Actually, now that I think about it, my mental health is another very valid reason why I'll probably have no more children.

After my first child I had .... well put it this way, to call what I had "post-natal depression" would be like calling a brain hemorrhage a mild headache. It was horrific. Odds of me surviving a second bout are low.

Besides which, I'm on so much heavy-duty medication as a result that the poor child would probably come out with 3 heads.

Ahh the joys of motherhood .... :pac:

notsoyoungwan · 27-05-2020 4:04pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would hate to be old, gray and lonely without any children to call my own. The only people in this world who truly care about you are your family. Friends come and go in life.

Not at all true in my personal experience and in my observation of others.

Loveinapril · 27-05-2020 4:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You'd wonder how many people who find themselves in their 70s childless are happy they didn't have kids..

I think it would be more interesting to ask that in 20 or 30 years. I think more people nowadays feel like they can choose not to have children whereas 50+ years ago it really wasn't an option. I know a few women who had kids because it was the 'done thing', regularly telling their (now adult) children that they never wa ted them throughout their childhood. Any childfree couples I know in their 60's and above couldn't conceive or had multiple losses in pregnancy. I also feel that bringing lawful termination into Ireland will hopefully reduce people becoming parents when they don't want to be.

Sunny Disposition · 27-05-2020 4:28pm

I think its interesting that many women don't have kids until their 30s now, anyone having a first child before 25 would be seen as quite young for it. Its not necessarily a bad thing, but in many cases I've no doubt people would be glad to have their kids in their 20s when energy levels are a bit higher.
BTW I'm not saying having kids is for everyone, but it will be difficult to find something else as meaningful to do in life as raise your own.
That's not meant to be harsh, its just a tough reality.

Hector Savage · 27-05-2020 4:32pm

antgal23 wrote: »

"absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it. "

I think with this mindset you have pre - natal depression, best buy a hamster

Yes it's a shame, people don't realise that this is the best time to live historically.
The media are too doom and gloom and rely on clickbait articles of bad news that paints an unrealistic picture of the world.

OP please check out these books ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0141979097/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1J3MVVYG78ZFI&dchild=1&keywords=enlightenment+now&qid=1590593394&sprefix=enlight%2Caps%2C177&sr=8-1

My new favourite book of all time -- Bill Gates

Exhilarating, magnificent, uplifting, Economist

This is the biggest story of our time. It's about the many ways in which the world is improving, and why we don't believe it -- Fraser Nelson, Spectator

Pinker is right. Not just a bit right, but completely, utterly, incontrovertibly right ... for most people, life is better, even if they don't realise it -- Dominic Sandbrook, Daily Mail

Awesome. The confidence with which Pinker tears through the issues that cause such deep anxiety today is compelling -- William Davies, Guardian

A characteristically fluent, decisive and data-rich demonstration of why, given the chance to live at any point in human history, only a stone-cold idiot would choose any time other than the present -- Sam Leith, Spectator

A new, optimistic view of the world ... Things are not as bad as your Facebook news feed makes them seem ... a cheerful, contrarian tract for dark times -- Niall Ferguson, Sunday Times

A goldmine of startling graphs and killer facts about the way we live now. Everyone should read this book and, just for once, be enthralled by what humankind has achieved -- Iain Macwhirter, Herald

Brimming with surprising data and entertaining anecdotes ... a genuinely enlightening book -- Jan-Werner Müller, Financial Times

Today we are living healthier, wealthier lives - and it's thanks to the values of the Enlightenment ... a passionate book in praise of Enlightenment values -- David Aaronovitch, The Times
From the Back Cover
Is modernity really failing? Or have we failed to appreciate progress and the ideals that make it possible? If you follow the headlines, the world in the 21st century appears to be sinking into chaos, hatred, and irrationality. Yet Steven Pinker shows that this is an illusion - a symptom of historical amnesia and statistical fallacies. If you follow the trendlines rather than the headlines, you discover that our lives have become longer, healthier, safer, happier, more peaceful, more stimulating and more prosperous - not just in the West, but worldwide. Such progress is no accident: it's the gift of a coherent and inspiring value system that many of us embrace without even realizing it. These are the values of the Enlightenment: of reason, science, humanism and progress. The challenges we face today are formidable, including inequality, climate change, Artificial Intelligence and nuclear weapons. But the way to deal with them is not to sink into despair or try to lurch back to a mythical idyllic past; it's to treat them as problems we can solve, as we have solved other problems in the past. In making the case for an Enlightenment newly recharged for the 21st century, Pinker shows how we can use our faculties of reason and sympathy to solve the problems that inevitably come with being products of evolution in an indifferent universe. We will never have a perfect world, but - defying the chorus of fatalism and reaction - we can continue to make it a better one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0141034645/ref=sr_1_1?crid=VZAPROT11X2N&dchild=1&keywords=better+angels+of+our+nature+pinker&qid=1590593411&sprefix=better+ang%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-1

Shortlisted for the Samuel Johnson Prize 2012

Wasn't the twentieth century the most violent in history? In his extraordinary, epic book Steven Pinker shows us that this is wrong, telling the story of humanity in a completely new and unfamiliar way. From why cities make us safer to how books bring about peace, Pinker weaves together history, philosophy and science to examine why we are less likely to die at another's hand than ever before, how it happened and what it tells us about our very natures.

Hector Savage · 27-05-2020 4:38pm

I have 2 boys and I love them, it's great but can be hard at times, but one thing I will say - everyone I know that doesn't have kids has great lives!

They have lots of holidays,money and freedom, they do what they want to do when they want to do it ...

27-05-2020 4:38pm

Loveinapril wrote: »

I think it would be more interesting to ask that in 20 or 30 years. I think more people nowadays feel like they can choose not to have children whereas 50+ years ago it really wasn't an option. I know a few women who had kids because it was the 'done thing', regularly telling their (now adult) children that they never wa ted them throughout their childhood. Any childfree couples I know in their 60's and above couldn't conceive or had multiple losses in pregnancy. I also feel that bringing lawful termination into Ireland will hopefully reduce people becoming parents when they don't want to be.

Well, yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at, but in 30 years time there will be another generation of it, and it will probably just be tragic really..

A load of 70 year olds living for themselves..how grim..

mrcheez · 27-05-2020 4:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd wonder how many people who find themselves in their 70s childless are happy they didn't have kids..

Deleted User wrote: »

A load of 70 year olds living for themselves..how grim..

This seems to be a big hang-up for you isn't it?

You got laboured with kids and have no freedom, so you try to bring down those you see around you who don't and do. :rolleyes:

Fourier · 27-05-2020 4:50pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yes it's a shame, people don't realise that this is the best time to live historically.
The media are too doom and gloom and rely on clickbait articles of bad news that paints an unrealistic picture of the world.

There's also "Factfulness" by Hans & Ola Rosling and Anna Rosling Rönnlund. Very good book with a sober analysis of the data.

notsoyoungwan · 27-05-2020 4:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at, but in 30 years time there will be another generation of it, and it will probably just be tragic really..

A load of 70 year olds living for themselves..how grim..

What’s grim about living for oneself?

Far better to do that than to burden someone with being “everything I live for” and “all I have in life”, surely? That can be an awful burden to put on children and young adults.

27-05-2020 4:57pm

mrcheez wrote: »

This seems to be a big hang-up for you isn't it?

You got laboured with kids and have no freedom, so you try to bring down those you see around you who don't and do. :rolleyes:

Haha..no actually..
I am childless and as free as a locked down bird..
Loads of money..can go on holiday once a month if I want..

I'm not trying to bring anyone down.. really..
But I do think that this mentality is kind of a product of living in this whole consumer self centered culture we are living in..
I don't think it's natural or beneficial for anyone..

mrcheez · 27-05-2020 5:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But I do think that this mentality is kind of a product of living in this whole consumer self centered culture we are living in..

I think it's more a product of people not feeling they have to conform to society norms any more and they are free to do what they want.

Many people are happy to dote on their nieces/nephews or whatever, rather than feel they need to breed themselves, plus the freedom of being able to live your life how you want to is something people admire nowadays rather than scorn as they would have in the past.

27-05-2020 5:04pm

mrcheez wrote: »

I think it's more a product of people not feeling they have to conform to society norms any more and they are free to do what they want.

We'll see..It will take a couple of generations probably to become apparent..

Blaze420 · 27-05-2020 5:12pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's the whole risk of having a special needs child...i think too many folks are afraid to be honest about it...if you have a child who is severely disabled your life is pretty much over...If they are able to live a normal length life, you spend your last years stressing and worrying who takes care of them when i'm gone...in Iceland they seem to have refreshing honesty about this

I think you have a point there, no matter how unpalatable it may seem to some. I know people with kids with really severe special needs and they always seem to go overboard in making a point of how it doesn’t matter and how much they love them etc - but you know from the look on their face that deep down there is some regret or bitterness hiding behind the facade. It can’t be easy and it’s not what anybody wants when they have a kid, no matter how much sugar coating is put on it.

lozenges · 27-05-2020 5:15pm

Hi OP. I'm female, in a LTR, don't want children. I really dislike the idea of pregnancy and childbirth and would be terrified of having a serious complication of labour.

I also have spent a lot of time thinking about child rearing and while it seems like a nice idea in an abstract sense as soon as I consider the daily reality eg night feeds, changing nappies, watching children's television, school runs, wiping dirty faces etc it honestly makes me feel quite depressed.
I also am highly independent and I think I would resent the loss of independence and freedom that necessarily comes with having kids. I really enjoy my job (although I decided I didn't want kids well before I had decided on my career). Again I think I would resent being stuck at home on mat leave while my partner could go out to work. I would find it very isolating I think.

As cpwgw says of course there's also the risk of the child having a serious disability.

Not a reason but a beneficial side effect of not having kids is not contributing to overpopulation and climate change.

I don't have anything against kids but there are plenty of people who do want to have them who I think would make great parents. I think it's better to leave having kids to those that really want them rather than being ambivalent but doing it because that's just what everyone else does.

I would like to be a mentor/positive role model to my friends/siblings kids when that time comes. Just happy not to have my own.

s1ippy · 27-05-2020 5:42pm

lozenges wrote: »

Hi OP. I'm female, in a LTR, don't want children. I really dislike the idea of pregnancy and childbirth and would be terrified of having a serious complication of labour.

Excellent point. I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up, especially given the quality of the maternity services in Ireland. While it appears to me anecdotally to be slightly better than general healthcare in Ireland, I have heard so many horror stories from friends who have given birth and I would not be confident that it can be relied upon with such a life and death situation. Working in disability services and with a lot of friends who have had children, I have heard every horror story and seen the repercussions of everything from overworked midwives making mistakes to out and out refusal to respect mothers' wishes in relation to pain medication etc. I know of hundreds of cases of negligence from just my local hospitals and I would imagine that this situation is mirrored across the country. It seems to be a real gamble giving birth when you cannot rely on the health system.

rob316 · 27-05-2020 5:45pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Excellent point. I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up, especially given the quality of the maternity services in Ireland. While it appears to me anecdotally to be slightly better than general healthcare in Ireland, I have heard so many horror stories from friends who have given birth and I would not be confident that it can be relied upon with such a life and death situation. Working in disability services and with a lot of friends who have had children, I have heard every horror story and seen the repercussions of everything from overworked midwives making mistakes to out and out refusal to respect mothers' wishes in relation to pain medication etc. I know of hundreds of cases of negligence from just my local hospitals and I would imagine that this situation is mirrored across the country. It seems to be a real gamble giving birth when you cannot rely on the health system.

You really concentrate on the negatives, if you don't want children don't have them, don't expect other posters to influence your decision. The maternity services here are absolutely fine I've never heard different.

Revit Man · 27-05-2020 5:46pm

I've a child, only a few months old.

I was 100% certain I wanted children before baby arrived. To be honest, now I'm not so sure it was a good idea. I do know that a lot of that is the tiredness and stress talking (Covid-19 babies with no family or friends or any outlets at all, working from home, colicky baby...) and it will pass (it already is passing), to be replaced by other stresses I'm sure.

But so far it's 85% difficult/boring (bad combination), 15% "oh wow, this is so nice".
Ask me again in a few years.

cgcsb · 27-05-2020 5:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A load of 70 year olds living for themselves..how grim..

As opposed to living to be a burden on their children? In the future most people will probably opt to euthanise themselves at 80 or 90 or whatever the age of feebleness is then.

storker · 27-05-2020 5:52pm

Revit Man wrote: »

I've a child, only a few months old.

I was 100% certain I wanted children before baby arrived. To be honest, now I'm not so sure it was a good idea. I do know that a lot of that is the tiredness and stress talking (Covid-19 babies with no family or friends or any outlets at all, working from home, colicky baby...) and it will pass (it already is passing), to be replaced by other stresses I'm sure.

But so far it's 85% difficult/boring (bad combination), 15% "oh wow, this is so nice".
Ask me again in a few years.

It gets better. And afterwards when you look back on the difficult times, you may even realise they didn't really last that long. It just doesn't seem like that when it's happening and you're in the middle of it. That was my experience anyway.

lozenges · 27-05-2020 6:06pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Excellent point. I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up, especially given the quality of the maternity services in Ireland. While it appears to me anecdotally to be slightly better than general healthcare in Ireland, I have heard so many horror stories from friends who have given birth and I would not be confident that it can be relied upon with such a life and death situation. Working in disability services and with a lot of friends who have had children, I have heard every horror story and seen the repercussions of everything from overworked midwives making mistakes to out and out refusal to respect mothers' wishes in relation to pain medication etc. I know of hundreds of cases of negligence from just my local hospitals and I would imagine that this situation is mirrored across the country. It seems to be a real gamble giving birth when you cannot rely on the health system.

To be honest this isn't it. Maternity services in Ireland are actually excellent for the most part. It's more that I work in healthcare and see complications when they do happen. It's biased of course because I don't see all the women who are absolutely fine, but still.

Also, while some complications are avoidable, many are not.

eviltwin · 27-05-2020 6:24pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Excellent point. I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up, especially given the quality of the maternity services in Ireland. While it appears to me anecdotally to be slightly better than general healthcare in Ireland, I have heard so many horror stories from friends who have given birth and I would not be confident that it can be relied upon with such a life and death situation. Working in disability services and with a lot of friends who have had children, I have heard every horror story and seen the repercussions of everything from overworked midwives making mistakes to out and out refusal to respect mothers' wishes in relation to pain medication etc. I know of hundreds of cases of negligence from just my local hospitals and I would imagine that this situation is mirrored across the country. It seems to be a real gamble giving birth when you cannot rely on the health system.

Its no different from the rest of the health care system, take from that what you will.

Look, you clearly don't want children and there is nothing wrong with that. You asked for people to give their experience, most parents do acknowledge the hard parts of raising a person but it's well worth the payoff. Lots of things we do will be challenging, difficult and we may question our sanity for doing them but when you get through the early years it's much easier.

mrcheez · 27-05-2020 6:27pm

rob316 wrote: »

You really concentrate on the negatives, if you don't want children don't have them, don't expect other posters to influence your decision.

I think the real negatives are the "awww poor them" view some have for those that choose to remain childless as illustrated by posts like...

rob316 wrote: »

I'd find life very empty without my kid and look forward to having another.

rob316 wrote: »

Your children are your legacy, if all goes to plan its what you leave behind.

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would hate to be old, gray and lonely without any children to call my own. The only people in this world who truly care about you are your family. Friends come and go in life.

The chan chan man wrote: »

Having kids is the meaning of life. Before them, nothing really mattered. It’s tough, but definitely worth it.

Housebuying wrote: »

I think deciding not to have children is one of the most selfless acts. A child takes over your world and if you can't give that you shouldn't have one.

You can be selfless and give to the world without necessarily having to produce your own sprogs :pac:

s1ippy · 27-05-2020 6:38pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Its no different from the rest of the health care system, take from that what you will.

Look, you clearly don't want children and there is nothing wrong with that. You asked for people to give their experience, most parents do acknowledge the hard parts of raising a person but it's well worth the payoff. Lots of things we do will be challenging, difficult and we may question our sanity for doing them but when you get through the early years it's much easier.

No need for the salty response, I take your points. It's absolutely not the case that I clearly don't want children. I just thought it would be worthwhile to examine all sides, and it really has been that imo.

lozenges · 27-05-2020 6:41pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I had my first in my mid 20s . Hated it. It literally stopped me from doing the things I loved. I was always stuck inside. Minding a child if not working.

Now in my 40s I have had another. He is 5 and is my true joy in this world. I think to enjoy parenthood properly, you must have a few years under your belt and be happy to let all those trivial things you enjoyed as a younger person go.

I would hate to be old, gray and lonely without any children to call my own. The only people in this world who truly care about you are your family. Friends come and go in life.

Wouldn't agree with this at all. As sad as it is there are older people in nursing homes and hospitals whose children don't visit them. Sometimes there are reasons for that, sometimes not. But having kids is no guarantee of happiness in your old age.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-05-2020 7:01pm

Revit Man wrote: »

I've a child, only a few months old.

I was 100% certain I wanted children before baby arrived. To be honest, now I'm not so sure it was a good idea. I do know that a lot of that is the tiredness and stress talking (Covid-19 babies with no family or friends or any outlets at all, working from home, colicky baby...) and it will pass (it already is passing), to be replaced by other stresses I'm sure.

But so far it's 85% difficult/boring (bad combination), 15% "oh wow, this is so nice".
Ask me again in a few years.

My daughter was born a couple of weeks before people decided to start slamming aeroplanes into buildings

Now think what it was like holding a baby watching that unfolding and thinking what the fcuk kind of world have I brought her into

Genuine fear of what was going to happen next

But we march on

You will look back and smile

s1ippy · 27-05-2020 7:06pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

My daughter was born a couple of weeks before people decided to start slamming aeroplanes into buildings

Now think what it was like holding a baby watching that unfolding and thinking what the fcuk kind of world have I brought her into

Genuine fear of what was going to happen next

But we march on

You will look back and smile

I don't think too many people look back and smile at the world trade centre coming down.

pgj2015 · 27-05-2020 7:08pm

To the people who say they definitely don't want children. What if you found out you had a son or daughter out of the blue and when you find out they are say 25. would you be happy then? All the hard stuff of raising a child is over at that stage but you still have a son or daughter who you can get to know. obviously this is more a question for men as the women will know they had a child.

kowloon · 27-05-2020 7:12pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

women will know they had a child.

You've a lot of confidence in people.

27-05-2020 7:23pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

It's funny, on a purely logical basis it is impossible to explain to someone why having a child is great. People who don't have one just need to accept that it is great, despite no sleep, finance, leaky nappies etc. Something changes in you after your first one arrives, you operate on pure love for the baby and there is no question of not putting up with all the difficult things. I would advise anyone in a stable relationship to have children, no matter what else you're doing it almost certainly won't be as meaningful, harsh as that might sound.

It is impossible for me to explain what my life is like without children in it. The meaning I get from the simplest of things continues to amaze me. It feels as if the whole world is spread out for the taking.

I would advise anyone in a stable relationship who doesn't have children to keep it that way, because it just won't come close to the meaningful and rich life that not having them will bring.

DrPhilG · 27-05-2020 7:23pm

People who look at parents and give them the condescending "poor you, tied down for life to screaming brats, your life is not your own anymore" are assholes.

People who look at child free people and give them the condescending "poor you, having kids is the only true happiness, what an empty existence you must have" are assholes.

sabat · 27-05-2020 7:41pm

mrcheez wrote: »

I think it's more a product of people not feeling they have to conform to society norms any more and they are free to do what they want.

The urge to reproduce is not a "societal norm"; it's a biological fact and the "freedom" people think they are experiencing is a string of products and services that have been packaged up and marketed to them by the capitalist consumerist machine by manipulating those same natural urges. Put simply, having a couple piss their 20s and 30s away is a lot more profitable for the machine than them settling down quietly.

Loveinapril · 27-05-2020 7:44pm

Revit Man wrote: »

I've a child, only a few months old.

I was 100% certain I wanted children before baby arrived. To be honest, now I'm not so sure it was a good idea. I do know that a lot of that is the tiredness and stress talking (Covid-19 babies with no family or friends or any outlets at all, working from home, colicky baby...) and it will pass (it already is passing), to be replaced by other stresses I'm sure.

But so far it's 85% difficult/boring (bad combination), 15% "oh wow, this is so nice".
Ask me again in a few years.

This really resonates with me. My son was a very difficult newborn, reflux, lots of crying, not much sleeping and permanently on the boob. I cannot imagine going through all tgat during these Covid times so you really do have my sympathy. But it does get easier, just don't listen when people say it takes 6/8/12 weeks then it becomes all sunshine and rainbows. Newborns are hard and I really did wish away the days until my son grew older. He is a toddler now and that brings it's own challenges but I would take 5 toddlers over a newborn any day! My daughter is 10 months old and I could settle in with the newborn stage because I knew it would end at some point.
The difficulties will end for you but just know you are not alone and these feelings of "sh!t, what have I done?!" are normal, people just don't like to talk about it.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-05-2020 8:06pm

s1ippy wrote: »

I don't think too many people look back and smile at the world trade centre coming down.

No

What you think is the worst situation in the world passes

Roger the cabin boy · 27-05-2020 8:09pm

Having children is perhaps the biggest personal sacrifice one can make.

They can take all and offer nothing but grief and toil in return.

However, the one thing they do give you is priceless; Meaning.

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

You can reach the end of your days poor, and worn through, having toiled and grafted through your days of parentage, but I also guarantee you that you will close your eyes knowing that your life of toil and sacrifices have given your life, and those of your future generations much meaning.

Man must have a purpose. What's the point if you just spend your days eating grapes and only pretending at continuing the species?

As for the world children will be born into, anyone born in Ireland is born into paradise.
They could be born in far far worse places.

And so what if you are thrust into parenting in the bowels of hell? Who better than you and your future generations to turn that Hell into heaven?

Because if it's not you, or your family, who else is going to do it?

27-05-2020 8:18pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

You cannot guarantee that.
Money isn't everything but neither is having kids. Plenty of people can lead meaningful lives without children.

Sparkey84 · 27-05-2020 8:33pm

to the op i think you post is interesting and i admire your ambition to make an informed decision on such a complex issue

i think bias is going to keep the discussion closed minded though. both paths are mutually exclusive and very few people are going to have a great view on both. maybe someone who had kids late in life so had a good few years of the child free times.

both sides will know more intimately the benefits of their choices in life.

it seems like you have your head screwed on and would have I'm sure lots to offer a child. best of luck on either path

mrcheez · 27-05-2020 8:47pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

This is the same sort of crap I get from religious types when they find out I'm atheist.

Seems I'm doubly damned for a souless pointless existence.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-05-2020 8:50pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Having children is perhaps the biggest personal sacrifice one can make.

They can take all and offer nothing but grief and toil in return.

However, the one thing they do give you is priceless; Meaning.

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

You can reach the end of your days poor, and worn through, having toiled and grafted through your days of parentage, but I also guarantee you that you will close your eyes knowing that your life of toil and sacrifices have given your life, and those of your future generations much meaning.

Man must have a purpose. What's the point if you just spend your days eating grapes and only pretending at continuing the species?

As for the world children will be born into, anyone born in Ireland is born into paradise.
They could be born in far far worse places.

And so what if you are thrust into parenting in the bowels of hell? Who better than you and your future generations to turn that Hell into heaven?

Because if it's not you, or your family, who else is going to do it?

That is very well-written

Roger the cabin boy · 27-05-2020 8:52pm

bubblypop wrote: »

You cannot guarantee that.
Money isn't everything but neither is having kids. Plenty of people can lead meaningful lives without children.

Well, there are those who unfortunately, can't have children and perhaps they tried at least and they will have that as comfort.

But if not children, then pick your sacrifices carefully.

joe40 · 27-05-2020 8:54pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

People who look at parents and give them the condescending "poor you, tied down for life to screaming brats, your life is not your own anymore" are assholes.

People who look at child free people and give them the condescending "poor you, having kids is the only true happiness, what an empty existence you must have" are assholes.

Well said, the correct choice, is whatever the correct choice is for you.
No right or wrong. I have two kids and they mean the world to me.

However I would never dare imply someone's life is meaningless if they don't have kids. That is arrogant nonsense.

eviltwin · 27-05-2020 8:59pm

If your children are your whole life the rest of it must be pretty empty.

Roger the cabin boy · 27-05-2020 9:01pm

joe40 wrote: »

Well said, the correct choice, is whatever the correct choice is for you.
No right or wrong. I have two kids and they mean the world to me.

However I would never dare imply someone's life is meaningless if they don't have kids. That is arrogant nonsense.

I agree.

Ultrflat · 27-05-2020 9:04pm

Honestly I'm cool either way, it would depend on what any potential other half wants.

Completely Put Off Having Children

Comments