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corkie · 26-11-2020, 08:02

Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III'

Just for a recap, here are links to memory-alpha breakdown of TNG episodes.

Unification I (episode)
Unification II (episode)

[TrekMovie] Before “Unification III” On ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ – A Look Back At Romulans, Vulcans And “Unification”

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sad Professor

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.
Please still spoiler tag information/leaks/theories on future episodes.

------------------ { ** Spoilers Below ** } ---------------

ilovesmybrick · 26-11-2020, 09:00

So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way.

Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that
Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.
How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member
No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting
After ten minutes with Burnham the Romulans nearly split from the Vulcans, until Burnham takes away her request for information and now all is well again?
Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument
Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone
I have never sighed as much and said f**k sake as much during an episode of Discovery
Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date?

Hopefully this is just a necessary connector to the second half that works better when watched in one run, but I did not enjoy this at all. There were some nice callbacks to TNG and PIC, and I liked the Nimoy footage, but I can't help feel that the writer was going for a Drumhead/Measure of a Man type episode, and it's just not up to that quality.

liamtech · 26-11-2020, 10:27

Yet again i find that this could have been one of the best. It could have covered so much ground, answered questions, and given insight to things that matter to fans

How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova
How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet
Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified
The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology
If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough

Instead we got the usual

Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend
Michael is the only one who can get things done
Michaels mother is involved
The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that
Tilly, barely an ensign, is now first officer

I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

corkie · 26-11-2020, 10:54

^^^ https://youtu.be/cof4oP8uoxw?t=31 ^^^

Shows up 'Mikey Spock' lack of Vulcan education that she needs 'Silly' to explain to her.

'Dr. Gabrielle Burnham' making an appearance kind of rules out the theories of her or her suit causing the burn?

PirateShampoo · 26-11-2020, 12:05

Jesus christ this show.

My new theory is that they didn't actually go to the future.

Burnham is actually a Q who had created a Universe with herself at the center. It's called the Burnham Verse.

This show isn't Star Trek, sure it gives fans a bit of Lip service but it's not Star Trek.

**Goodshape** · 26-11-2020, 13:23

Only Michael can save the day! LOL. Well, of course.

Tilly as first officer. Oh for ****s sake. ROFL.

Otherwise really enjoyed the episode

Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

And I just enjoyed the courtroom-drama Vulcan ceremony schtick.

Good to get the mother-Burnham search out of the way relatively swiftly. Was worried that would drag until some last minute special effect, but it was a relatively subtle reveal and mum's role in the episode was actually worthwhile.

Saru is a decent captain. A bit too soft though. Loses too much credibility when getting pushed around by Burnham. And appointing the ensign as first officer? Christ.

But, I guess things are just a little easier going on a small science vessel, compared to what we're used to in other shows. We're getting more and more time with the crew anyway and that's been great. Whatever about Tilly as No.1, getting Burnham out of that role is a good thing. She can be a little more rogue now without it seeming ridiculous.

Anyway, proper Star Trek

. Very good episode.

corkie · 26-11-2020, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodshape

Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

Ni'Var

Quote:

it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole"

Like we don't usually refer to The Vulcans as Vulcanians, I doubt they/we will refer to them as Ni'Varians?

Ni'Var (starship)
^^^ " The Ni'Var was a Vulcan Suurok-class combat cruiser that was in service with the Vulcan High Command in the mid-22nd century. The vessel was commanded by Sopek. "

Edit: - The wiki is going through some changes.

Vulcan (planet) or Ni'Var (planet)

Drip feeding of clues to the burn continue.

^^^ https://youtu.be/1Suy8Ul3JMA?t=96

**FutureGuy** · 26-11-2020, 15:02

Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

"You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

silverharp · 26-11-2020, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureGuy

Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

"You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

it reeks of fan fiction and a bunch of writers that never made it out of the valley.

**Spear** · 26-11-2020, 15:44

That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

Tilly as XO is just so stupid a concept it's offensive to the viewer. I know it's a small enough crew, but there's no way there aren't other officers such as Bryce or Rhys or even Nilsson, who are way more experienced. And surely they'd want someone from the 32nd century Starfleet, who'd be familiar with the state of affairs in the galaxy, as well as Admiral Vance who'd want experienced officers in place on his secret weapon. No-one thought this through all.

And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors? Where's the rogue AI in the ships computer gone?

And the mother is suddenly Koat Milat? What?

**Goodshape** · 26-11-2020, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear

And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors?

I think that was intended to show that the whole crew are a little shook, rather than Detmer going mad on her own all season. And I don't really want to start defending Tilly as XO, but I'd see that as a continuation of the story thread with Detmer. She's the XO because the crew have been through enough ****, they don't need a hard-nosed 32nd century security officer suddenly in charge and barking orders at them.

And maybe I'm alone on this one but give me court-room Trek all day long

. Last week's shooty-blast-fest was dull as dishwater for me.

PirateShampoo · 26-11-2020, 16:36

Tilly the Ensign is now No1, even TNG followed rank when Troy ended up Captain. How pissed would you be after years of training and hard work your captain promotes the girl he likes to gossip with ahead of you.

Mummy somehow made it to Vulcan and become a Ninja.

Burnham with one speech somehow managed to nearly start a civil war and then united a planet. Must of been her Q powers, tears and whispering.

The cats not a cat...

Stamits has a really smug face.

So Burnham wants to stay now. Basically she got the feeling we all got on our first day of work when we come back from our holidays.

**FutureGuy** · 26-11-2020, 16:49

Burnham's overreaction to any new morsel of information about the future is wearing very thin by the way.

silverharp · 26-11-2020, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear

That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

Is that because they blew the budget on planet Iceland?

Varik · 26-11-2020, 20:17

It's not like it's Voyager where they're stranded with no link to starfleet and 2 mismatched crews, they've met up with starfleet and Saru got an actual promotion to captain. You'd think Starfleet might have an issue with the probably the most important ship they now got having tilly as fist officer and could have suggested a alternative.

26-11-2020, 09:00	#2
ilovesmybrick Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 607 Adverts \| Friends	So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way. Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada. How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting After ten minutes with Burnham the Romulans nearly split from the Vulcans, until Burnham takes away her request for information and now all is well again? Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone I have never sighed as much and said f**k sake as much during an episode of Discovery Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date? Hopefully this is just a necessary connector to the second half that works better when watched in one run, but I did not enjoy this at all. There were some nice callbacks to TNG and PIC, and I liked the Nimoy footage, but I can't help feel that the writer was going for a Drumhead/Measure of a Man type episode, and it's just not up to that quality.

26-11-2020, 10:27	#3
liamtech Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,323 Adverts \| Friends	Yet again i find that this could have been one of the best. It could have covered so much ground, answered questions, and given insight to things that matter to fans How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough Instead we got the usual Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend Michael is the only one who can get things done Michaels mother is involved The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that Tilly, barely an ensign, is now first officer I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

26-11-2020, 13:23	#6
Goodshape Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 8,172 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, ZTest	Only Michael can save the day! LOL. Well, of course. Tilly as first officer. Oh for ***s sake. ROFL. Otherwise really enjoyed the episode Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front. And I just enjoyed the courtroom-drama Vulcan ceremony schtick. Good to get the mother-Burnham search out of the way relatively swiftly. Was worried that would drag until some last minute special effect, but it was a relatively subtle reveal and mum's role in the episode was actually worthwhile. Saru is a decent captain. A bit too* soft though. Loses too much credibility when getting pushed around by Burnham. And appointing the ensign as first officer? Christ. But, I guess things are just a little easier going on a small science vessel, compared to what we're used to in other shows. We're getting more and more time with the crew anyway and that's been great. Whatever about Tilly as No.1, getting Burnham out of that role is a good thing. She can be a little more rogue now without it seeming ridiculous. Anyway, proper Star Trek . Very good episode. Last edited by Goodshape; 26-11-2020 at 15:28. Reason: spelling

26-11-2020, 15:02	#8
FutureGuy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 14,473 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Fantasy Sports Arena, Xbox, ZTest	Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not. "You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing. Can you imagine some incompetent ***ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works? Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it. EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave. Last edited by FutureGuy; 26-11-2020 at 15:06.*

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26-11-2020, 10:54	#4
corkie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,103 Adverts \| Friends	^^^ https://youtu.be/cof4oP8uoxw?t=31 ^^^ Shows up 'Mikey Spock' lack of Vulcan education that she needs 'Silly' to explain to her. 'Dr. Gabrielle Burnham' making an appearance kind of rules out the theories of her or her suit causing the burn?

26-11-2020, 12:05	#5
PirateShampoo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,173 Adverts \| Friends	Jesus christ this show. My new theory is that they didn't actually go to the future. Burnham is actually a Q who had created a Universe with herself at the center. It's called the Burnham Verse. This show isn't Star Trek, sure it gives fans a bit of Lip service but it's not Star Trek.

26-11-2020, 15:44	#10
Spear Moderator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 18,889 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Newbie & FAQ / Helpdesk Mods, Battlefield, Help Desk, Nets & Comms, Newbies & FAQ, ZTest	That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama. Tilly as XO is just so stupid a concept it's offensive to the viewer. I know it's a small enough crew, but there's no way there aren't other officers such as Bryce or Rhys or even Nilsson, who are way more experienced. And surely they'd want someone from the 32nd century Starfleet, who'd be familiar with the state of affairs in the galaxy, as well as Admiral Vance who'd want experienced officers in place on his secret weapon. No-one thought this through all. And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors? Where's the rogue AI in the ships computer gone? And the mother is suddenly Koat Milat? What?

26-11-2020, 16:36	#12
PirateShampoo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,173 Adverts \| Friends	Tilly the Ensign is now No1, even TNG followed rank when Troy ended up Captain. How pissed would you be after years of training and hard work your captain promotes the girl he likes to gossip with ahead of you. Mummy somehow made it to Vulcan and become a Ninja. Burnham with one speech somehow managed to nearly start a civil war and then united a planet. Must of been her Q powers, tears and whispering. The cats not a cat... Stamits has a really smug face. So Burnham wants to stay now. Basically she got the feeling we all got on our first day of work when we come back from our holidays.

26-11-2020, 16:49	#13
FutureGuy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 14,473 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Fantasy Sports Arena, Xbox, ZTest	Burnham's overreaction to any new morsel of information about the future is wearing very thin by the way.

26-11-2020, 20:17	#15
Varik Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,961 Adverts \| Friends	It's not like it's Voyager where they're stranded with no link to starfleet and 2 mismatched crews, they've met up with starfleet and Saru got an actual promotion to captain. You'd think Starfleet might have an issue with the probably the most important ship they now got having tilly as fist officer and could have suggested a alternative.