Is it stupid to buy a petrol/diesel car in 2019?

V8 Interceptor · 24-02-2019 10:37pm

How about one of these?

Cilar · 01-03-2019 2:24pm

See - it's starting "Electric car sales surge by 542% while traditional market stalls" https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/electric-car-sales-surge-by-542-while-traditional-market-stalls-1.3811006 . Give it a few years, and no one will want second hand diesel/petrol.

bazz26 · 01-03-2019 2:58pm

Sheep will always need a shepherd...

Silent Running · 01-03-2019 5:16pm

Cilar wrote: »

See - it's starting "Electric car sales surge by 542% while traditional market stalls" https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/electric-car-sales-surge-by-542-while-traditional-market-stalls-1.3811006 . Give it a few years, and no one will want second hand diesel/petrol.

And chargepoint numbers increased by... oh wait... no.

Idbatterim · 01-03-2019 5:20pm

Silent Running wrote: »

And chargepoint numbers increased by... oh wait... no.

With technology improving at the current rate, even now with some of the bigger batteries. Not everyone needs public charging!

Silent Running · 01-03-2019 5:30pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

With technology improving at the current rate, even now with some of the bigger batteries. Not everyone needs public charging!

True, but I do really long drives with my little battery (28kWh) so public charging is necessary for me. There aren't that many bigger batteries available yet. The Leaf 40kWh isn't for me as the range would be the same as my current Ioniq, and the Kona 64kWh sold here is a crappy spec compared to the UK.

When a proper 64kWh or higher comes along I'll be all over it. My hopes lie with Kia's Niro or the VW Neo. Both possibly available at the start of next year.

SBPhoto · 01-03-2019 7:09pm

Cilar wrote: »

See - it's starting "Electric car sales surge by 542% while traditional market stalls" https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/electric-car-sales-surge-by-542-while-traditional-market-stalls-1.3811006 . Give it a few years, and no one will want second hand diesel/petrol.

Its easy to go up 542% from a nearly zero base

Water John · 01-03-2019 7:53pm

It's at 2.5% or 1 in 40 of new sales. Would need to be at 10% to be truly mainstream IMO.

ShadowHearth · 01-03-2019 8:55pm

SBPhoto wrote: »

Its easy to go up 542% from a nearly zero base

That's what I wanted to say too. It's clickbait title. 542% increase sounds massive, but it will sound big on any small number.

It's like if I sold 1 lobster dish at work yesterday, but today I sold 5, because it's Saturday night. 500%! Growth!!! Delete the rest of the menu and we sell only lobsters from now on!!!

trabpc · 01-03-2019 9:38pm

In relation to secondhand values does it really matter what it's worth, as after 10 years any car is pretty much worthless or certainly around 10% of it's original value at that stage whether it's Petrol Diesel or Battery.

Although I'd chance a 10 yr old Petrol or Diesel over a battery car as I doubt batteries at 10 yr old will be going very far. I see a battery car as having probably less value at that age.

Water John · 01-03-2019 10:41pm

You're possibly incorrect. Battery is usually guaranteed for 8 years but it doesn't become worthless. A few cells may need replacing or at worst a new battery. In a few years there will be plenty offering the service. The rest of the car IWT will hold up much better than an ICE. Look at all the wearing parts that are absent.

Phil.x · 03-03-2019 10:50am

Many years away, i can see the demise of most petrol stations, also public charging, people will charge at home and places of work.
Yes petrol and diesel will be here for decades still, but just like xtravision and hmv, sadly found out, times change and nothing stays the same forever.

beauf · 03-03-2019 12:08pm

I think there will be a need for ice cars for a long time yet. EV are definitely going to be replacing a lot of them over time. But not all.

Water John · 03-03-2019 12:30pm

I see an interesting article yesterday in a parallel situation. The sale of electric bicycles have overtaken the sale of ordinary bicycles in 2018 in the Netherlands.
So once the full range of options become available, people will readily switch to EVs.
Remember the electric bicycle bought in the Netherlands is not a cheap Chinese model and is about twice the price of an ordinary bicycle.

micks_address · 03-03-2019 1:22pm

Cars are one thing but what about all the oil boilers in the country heating house's?

I just think it's funny how anyone thinks their car is going to be worth a fortune in 5 years..whether it's ice or ev.. worst case you're on PCP and you loose any equity you might have thought you had above the guaranteed future value in the contract.. in that case I'd just keep the car drive it till it dies.. there's no reason if you have the right ice car for the type of driving you do it wouldn't easily last ten years.. the right driving meaning petrol for short journeys and only diesel if you do journeys where it will be regularly and full temp for most of the journey.. we have a petrol jazz that only does about 4k km every year and my wife is actively hoping a tree falls on it or something so we can justify changing it.. will the same be said for a 10 year old ev? How will the battery stand up? I'd love to swap it out for an ev but the car is costing us so little it's very hard to justify replacement.

scamalert · 03-03-2019 1:23pm

going by Ireland's pace many will buy petrols diesels for another decade at least.

Theres no goverment incentives to buy EV, if one can drop 30k+ on a new car, i doubt many will skimp to have some mid range EV, as many as is already buy bare minimum spec shells.

battery life is major factor, well cared engine could last 10-20 years, batteries dont, and second hand market for that is hard to spend 5-10k to get new one in.

as looking on donedeal on can pickup leaf with small mileage under 10k easily, and yes theres quite few of them on the roads now, but 2019, might as well be down to 2029 choice is still poor range is questionable, no proper infrastructure outside main cities and towns.

Water John · 03-03-2019 1:57pm

In 2029 probably no diesel cars on the road IWT. I would see the new diesel market really decrease by 2022.

Yes, heating older houses is a problem. They would need serious upgrade to switch to A2W. Any other options require work. May be wood gasification or wood pellets, sorry off topic.

04-03-2019 4:27pm

Early 2018 was a slow EV sales period. The 2018 Irish best selling EV Nissan LEAF 40 kWh wasn't out until about April and the stocks of the previous generation had dried by that stage. Very few IONIQ and eGolf available also. Kind of like Jan 2016 where The LEAF 30 kWh deliveries were delayed and the sales were down compared to 2015.

Ubbquittious · 04-03-2019 11:15pm

Water John wrote: »

I see an interesting article yesterday in a parallel situation. The sale of electric bicycles have overtaken the sale of ordinary bicycles in 2018 in the Netherlands.
So once the full range of options become available, people will readily switch to EVs.
Remember the electric bicycle bought in the Netherlands is not a cheap Chinese model and is about twice the price of an ordinary bicycle.

Everyone already has loads of bicycles there and they last forever. The only reason to buy a new one is if your old one got stolen

Xpro · 04-03-2019 11:58pm

Judging by some comments here, you would think EV was only invented yesterday.
EV's were out for decades, ( forklifts, electric buggies, golf cars, etc) and not so much cars, because of their poor range, complexity and cost of the product and the battery.

And very little has changed since, except the emissions control is getting tougher and tougher and manufactures have no choice but to sway into EV world, as ICE vehicle have reached their peak.

Lets be realistic here, battery life is still pretty poor, unless you shell out 100k € on 500km range Tesla and similar, the infrastructure is still not quite there yet, not to mention Ireland. ( if you don't have your own granny charger, you are snookered, or constantly out there looking for a free charging space)

Then there's commercial world out there, trucks, vans, machinery, etc. Its going to take years or decades before they are all phased out..

I reckon we are still pretty safe with our oil burners for a good foreseeable future anyways.

Twenty Grand · 05-03-2019 3:00am

Xpro wrote: »

I reckon we are still pretty safe with our oil burners for a good foreseeable future anyways.

People are creatures of habit.

Even if a well specced 40k 500km EV was released tomorrow, you'd still have people butting diesel and petrol for years to come.

Water John · 05-03-2019 9:32am

Cars are separate from trucks and machinery. You cannot use them as an excuse not to act on cars.
The solutions for trucks machinery is a bit further down the road, but prototypes of industrial loaders and tractors have been developed by Volvo and John Deere. Both run for 4 hours. The battery industrial loader performed as well as the next higher rated model of diesel.
An artificial/synthetic diesel may be the solution for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-diesel

Water John · 05-03-2019 3:37pm

Here is a new all electric telehandler.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/shock-news-faresin-shows-off-it-electric-telehandler/

I'm sure the animals will appreciate no diesel fumes and less noise in their shed.

Skylinehead · 05-03-2019 3:48pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

People are creatures of habit.

Even if a well specced 40k 500km EV was released tomorrow, you'd still have people butting diesel and petrol for years to come.

Not sure on that one, the second the tax regime was changed in 2008 hordes of people migrated to diesel. Petrol habits were dropped fairly rapidly.

duffman3833 · 05-03-2019 4:15pm

Nixonbot wrote: »

Not sure on that one, the second the tax regime was changed in 2008 hordes of people migrated to diesel. Petrol habits were dropped fairly rapidly.

there was a huge difference in tax prices like a 1.9 was 710 and then down to 280 or less depending on car
that's a big saving while today a lot of diesel cars are around the 200 mark so if EV tax was free id say there would be a bigger migration

Squidgy Black · 05-03-2019 5:06pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

People are creatures of habit.

Even if a well specced 40k 500km EV was released tomorrow, you'd still have people butting diesel and petrol for years to come.

You'd be amazed at how people think when buying a new car.

I've seen plenty of people choose cars based on paying 100 euro less tax a year than another option that may suit their needs better or be a better car overall.

The majority of the Irish population have an obsession with 'chape tax'.

Ning · 09-03-2019 1:49am

Major car brands at Geneva motor show only showed electric or plug-in hybrid models

NIMAN · 09-03-2019 1:59am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You'd be amazed at how people think when buying a new car.

I've seen plenty of people choose cars based on paying 100 euro less tax a year than another option that may suit their needs better or be a better car overall.

The majority of the Irish population have an obsession with 'chape tax'.

Only since 2008 though.

And the cheapest tax is on EVs, so why aren't they selling better?

Water John · 09-03-2019 2:28pm

The models and range are only now coming on stream. The high priced Kona shows there are plenty buyers.

bazz26 · 09-03-2019 2:39pm

Water John wrote: »

The models and range are only now coming on stream. The 0% BIK high priced Kona shows there are plenty company buyers availing of tax incentives.

Corrected your post there.

Water John · 09-03-2019 2:44pm

If one had a profitable company business, one would be daft to buy an EV privately rather than through the co. The BIK bit is a bonus but why spend after tax income on the purchase when it can be billed as a cost.

bazz26 · 09-03-2019 3:12pm

My point is though, would the same number of EV Konas be sold if there was no company car incentive on them? Anyone who owns their own company or can avail of a company owned car with O% BIK of course would be advised by their accountant to buy one for tax reasons but not simply because it's an EV.

Water John · 09-03-2019 10:00pm

Change is difficult for the majority of humans. There are still only two ways to affect change, the carrot and the stick.

Rob C · 10-03-2019 11:38am

Not possible for me. I commute 78kms a day, mostly motorway driving and I live in an apartment with no designated parking spots so no chance of having a charger installed. So it’s Diesel all the way for me and I suspect there are many more in my situation. You have to get the car that suits your driving needs imho.

Water John · 10-03-2019 12:21pm

A Kona charged once a week. Hardly an imposition.

bazz26 · 10-03-2019 12:47pm

Water John wrote: »

Change is difficult for the majority of humans. There are still only two ways to affect change, the carrot and the stick.

The only winners are those that dangle the stick and carrot with a vested interest in convincing that change is necessary. It's called consumerism and it's what drives economies - convincing the masses what's best for them and then kick off a boom for demand. It was diesels a decade ago, it's evs now, any bets on what it will be in 10 years time?

Water John wrote: »

A Kona charged once a week. Hardly an imposition.

Maybe like many people he just doesn't have 38k to spend on a Kona?

micks_address · 10-03-2019 2:09pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

Change is difficult for the majority of humans. There are still only two ways to affect change, the carrot and the stick.

The only winners are those that dangle the stick and carrot with a vested interest in convincing that change is necessary. It's called consumerism and it's what drives economies - convincing the masses what's best for them and then kick off a boom for demand. It was diesels a decade ago, it's evs now, any bets on what it will be in 10 years time?

Water John wrote: »

A Kona charged once a week. Hardly an imposition.

Maybe like many people he just doesn't have 38k to spend on a Kona?

The Kona is grand if you don't need a car for a family of four and a decent boot... Make an electric Octavia for 33k and 300 km range then I'll buy it

Water John · 10-03-2019 3:34pm

Fully accept that more models and lower price are necessary. Hopefully coming along shortly.

mikeecho · 10-03-2019 4:53pm

Stupid me.. Mrs just bought a 2019 Diesel.

EV doesn't suit our driving style.
It's not convenient, or practical.

She's boarder line petrol.. but a petrol variant isn't available , so.. diesel it is.

I'll take it for the odd spin will (,not bring it to its top speed and drive the shytout of it on the public road) to clear the dpf

Eric Cartman · 10-03-2019 5:20pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

there was a huge difference in tax prices like a 1.9 was 710 and then down to 280 or less depending on car
that's a big saving while today a lot of diesel cars are around the 200 mark so if EV tax was free id say there would be a bigger migration

The shoft in attitude that came with it too, paying 5-700 in tax in 2007 was just standard for most, now in 2019 any car over the 370 euro tax mark devalues like a stone because of how afraid people are of the tax.

Even 570 for something like an e350 mercedes and the country crys out ‘jaysus the tax on that’

wassie · 11-03-2019 12:35am

Exactly - I really wanted to import an automatic transmission Avensis a couple of years back. But they were only available with a 2.2L and road tax was €750. Gave up at that point as I new I would never be able to resell it here, when the manual was €280.

Is it stupid to buy a petrol/diesel car in 2019?

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