What have we come to

billyhead · 09-02-2020 12:54pm #1

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

rtron · 09-02-2020 12:57pm

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:03pm

What's the alternative? Vote in the EU / corporatist lapdogs who despite being supposedly right wing want to tax you more and more for living in your own house that they had nothing to do with the building of in the form of property tax and broadcasting charges, mandatory private bin collection service. Who knows what other annual charges into the 100s of euros for simply existing FFG had planned to reveal to us once they obtained a fresh 5 year mandate to tear into

Wesser · 09-02-2020 1:05pm

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

chrissb8 · 09-02-2020 1:05pm

FF & FG have done this to themselves. Did they think people were going to take their s***e forever.

Earthhorse · 09-02-2020 1:06pm

It's a very naïve vote. Sinn Féin are basically FF lite. No real political convictions. What way is the wind blowing? Grand we'll go with that. If they do get into power it won't be the disaster some are expecting but it won't be the change others think they've voted for.

El Tarangu · 09-02-2020 1:08pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What's the alternative? Vote in the EU / corporatist lapdogs who despite being supposedly right wing want to tax you more and more for living in your own house that they had nothing to do with the building of in the form of property tax and broadcasting charges, mandatory private bin collection service. Who knows what other annual charges into the 100s of euros for simply existing FFG had planned to reveal to us once they obtained a fresh 5 year mandate to tear into

There are plenty of other parties that espouse very similar leftish-populist policies to Sinn Féin, but who haven't been complicit in murdering Gardaí, members of the Defence Forces, members of the Oireachtas, children, census-takers, the Collie Club... I could go on.

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:08pm

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's a very naïve vote. Sinn Féin are basically FF lite. No real political convictions. What way is the wind blowing? Grand we'll go with that. If they do get into power it won't be the disaster some are expecting but it won't be the change others think they've voted for.

They're the only decent size party that havn't screwed us massively before. Give them a chance

Earthhorse · 09-02-2020 1:11pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

They're the only decent size party that havn't screwed us massively before. Give them a chance

To screw us over massively?

Careful what you wish for.

tototoe · 09-02-2020 1:11pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

They are the most popular party with under 65s. Thats not just "the young people"
Tells you a lot about how people feel about ff and fg though

Agricola · 09-02-2020 1:14pm

Its been coming a long time. When you have younger people who can't rent a place to live, never mind buy a house and who also have no real memory of pre GFA Sinn Fein, what other outcome would there be. FF have recovered as you'd expect after a decade in the wilderness and a lot of people are generally sick of FG.

We see ourselves as an educated responsible electorate that wouldn't be dupped like the Yanks and the Brits, but we had to get our own little taste of populism, couldnt escape it.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:16pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

Short memories + shorter consciences

Donald Trump · 09-02-2020 1:16pm

Perhaps the ensuing chaos will eventually force people to educate themselves on things political.

There might be a generation lost, but eventually you would hope that people will learn.

And then inevitably forget and the cycle can continue again

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:18pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Perhaps the ensuing chaos will eventually force people to educate themselves on things political.

There might be a generation lost, but eventually you would hope that people will learn.

And then inevitably forget and the cycle can continue again

Is that what you said when you got elected yourself?

Shaunoc · 09-02-2020 1:18pm

All hail our new overlords

Breakerz · 09-02-2020 1:21pm

You're looking down on others for not voting for the status quo. The troubles are over. In a generation or two there won't be a FG or FF. Voting for the same parties over and over again and expecting change is incredibly stupid. People are starting to wake up.

rob316 · 09-02-2020 1:21pm

Telling people to go vote and having only really the choice between 2 parties that spent the last 4 years in a glorified coalition isn't a democracy. The electorate aren't stupid and this generation don't have family loyalties to parties like old.
The FF and FG "confidence and supply" I thought at the time would change Irish politics and it has. They confirmed to the electorate "we are the same".

biko · 09-02-2020 1:23pm

It's pretty clear that to keep voting FF/FG isn't going to work - hence people are now thinking outside the box.
SF are socialists, but at least they appear to be the least deranged on the left side.
I also think they may be less interested in lining their own pockets and actually doing something for the citizens of this country.

NIMAN · 09-02-2020 1:25pm

endacl wrote: »

Short memories + shorter consciences

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:26pm

biko wrote: »

It's pretty clear that to keep voting FF/FG isn't going to work.
SF are socialists, but at least they appear to be the least deranged on the left side.

Be some craic when they meet a civil service who’ll have the job of pointing out the realities.

jam_mac_jam · 09-02-2020 1:28pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

When they start taking up the side of the people beaten to death in barns rather then those doing the beating.

FixitFelix · 09-02-2020 1:30pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

No they're just living through the one of no houses, lying on hospital trolleys and extortionate rents.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:33pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

Honestly, for me? Not for a while yet. SF is still substantially populated by individuals who refused to condemn and indeed often sought to justify atrocity after atrocity. Good to see Martin Ferris not standing again and Adams gone, but there’s another generation to go before I could stomach them.

Montage of Feck · 09-02-2020 1:33pm

If Leo stood by his principles, instead of having to apologise for standing up for those who get out of bed in the morning, things could have been different.

coastwatch · 09-02-2020 1:36pm

“Democracy is too important to leave up to the votes of the people.”
— Henry Kissinger

Gynoid · 09-02-2020 1:37pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

Don't know how long, but not long enough yet. In northerly parts republicans still have an illegitimate sway on the workings of communities, with threats thrown out on a grape vine that can send people into hiding, vigilante enforcement re drugs etc, subtle respect among certain people towards guerrila tactics. They have most definitely not gone away. I find it weird that a woman who panted after the founder of the Unknowns will be a senior politician in our country now. Gerry Adams as late as 2018 said violent tactics can be justified in certain cases. Sinn Fein protected rapists and punishment vigilantes long after the ending of the troubles. Still does, frankly.
But have at it. Be ruled by Sinn Fein. Elevate them on a podium. Better to rip the veils from the eyes sooner than later.

Idbatterim · 09-02-2020 1:42pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If Leo stood by his principles, instead of having to apologise for standing up for those who get out of bed in the morning, things could have been different.

Yeah, bang on. But he is spineless! Worried that rte etc would brand him “ lacking in compass” rte lambasted sf, all it did was solidify their support. Varadkar has been ill advised by his spin doctors. Represent those who put you there and own it ! I didn’t vote fg last time for the Taoiseach to been groveling about “ de vulneable” on the worlds most generous welfare state , paid by the working poor , themselves hit with a fifty percent marginal rate !

Thelonious Monk · 09-02-2020 1:44pm

I think it's great that people are voting for something different, finally. As if they'd do anything very differently anyway if they were in power. This is some protest vote, big change coming in what looks to be a FF/FG coalition.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think it's great that people are voting for something different, finally. As if they'd do anything very differently anyway if they were in power. This is some protest vote, big change coming in what looks to be a FF/FG coalition.

If that pair would finally admit they’re the same thing and actually coalesce into a single entity, party politics could actually move on here. That’s the sea change that’s needed.

Cody montana · 09-02-2020 1:48pm

Welcome to democracy.

If you don’t agree with it, leave.

CBear1993 · 09-02-2020 1:49pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

And why should they? fF and FG started out as violent parties. Easy pointing the finger from down here where you’re nice and cosy.
Unrelated. Let them get on with it.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:50pm

Cody montana wrote: »

Welcome to democracy.

If you don’t agree with, leave.

I wouldn’t know where to begin to point out everything daft in that statement. And I’m not sure somebody who made it would understand the explanation...

omega man · 09-02-2020 1:52pm

SF must go into government now. No more hurling from the ditch of the opposition benches.
The bubble will burst once people don’t see the changes promised.

BanditLuke · 09-02-2020 1:54pm

No surprise for me or SF hysteria nonsense. FFG have ruled the roost for nearly the history of the state and people don't really care about what happened during the troubles anymore. It's history and the voters have spoken and like the policies SF are putting forward.

Interesting times.

Paulzx · 09-02-2020 1:56pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If Leo stood by his principles, instead of having to apologise for standing up for those who get out of bed in the morning, things could have been different.

I agree. I'm not really fond of Leo but our supposed "right wing" parties need to start targeting their base properly instead of worrying about being all things to all men.

The shinners and the looney lefties have the so called "poor" wrapped up with promises of free everything. FF and FG fall over themselves trying to match this despite this cohort having no interest in voting for them.

FF and FG need to move overtly to supporting the people who are expected to pay for all the freebies i.e the man/women who gets up early every morning.

We've had a race to the bottom with political correctness

pgj2015 · 09-02-2020 1:58pm

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 2:00pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Better than fecking commemorating the black and tans and all the 'good work' they did

Donald Trump · 09-02-2020 2:01pm

Cody montana wrote: »

Welcome to democracy.

If you don’t agree with it, leave.

Does SF believe in democracy now?

Did they drop their objection to "Free State" government and Gardai/army being illegitimate in contrast to the actual true government of the IRA Central Council?

If they did drop that position, they did it within living memory. i.e. it was probably there when most of their candidates joined the party

CBear1993 · 09-02-2020 2:01pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Would argue that it’s a growing population of informed and educated young people who are confident enough to make their own decisions. For too long irish people never challenged difficult topics. They listened to what “mammy and daddy” says and voted for.
They’ve now changed laws on abortion, same sex marriage, and now will topple the old dinosaurs of FF and FG over 60 voters once they die off.

A great weekend again for the new wave of Irish people. Someone sounds rattled there, is your comfortable life under threat?? Aww

NIMAN · 09-02-2020 2:01pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

To be fair, that singing was a bit cringe.

Micky 32 · 09-02-2020 2:02pm

To me it seems to be FG in poll position by the end of the count, i can see Leo being taoseach again and Micheal propping them up, nothing to see here or am i missing something? Richard Bruton came on saying they are confident of beating FF.

Littlehorny · 09-02-2020 2:04pm

It's right to condemn SF when they have justified criminality to suit their cause and if they get into power they simply must follow the law of the land and condemn all criminal acts.
But to sling mud at SF for this and on the other hand not acknowledge that their should be dozens of white collar criminals serving time to this day in prison is hypocritical. The damage done to the country by pure corruption is immense and FF have been at the head of it for decades and the Irish public are really starting to remember this when a ballot paper is in front of them.

Strumms · 09-02-2020 2:07pm

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

The problem as I see it... what kind of damage might befall this country and it’s people in the time between now and the next election... both domestically and internationally... there might just be a hell of a cleanup required unfortunately ...’fûcking up the country’ will have serious implications for the good people in it..for working people..

Idbatterim · 09-02-2020 2:07pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Yeah. Who gives Margaret cash the free house, masses of cash. There’s 300,000,000 a year on th welfare bonus. Pays e1800 a month to rent the new luxury apartments in Dundrum and charges tenants fifty euro a week to rent them ... the answer is Fg

Oranage2 · 09-02-2020 2:09pm

FF ducked up the country for the foreseeable future, FG has barely done anything in the past 8? Years. Time for somebody else to try, if I could vote id vote sinn fein

Montage of Feck · 09-02-2020 2:09pm

Seeing SF supporters belting out "come out ye black and tans" is very cringe. Goes to show how wrong FG judged the feelings of Joe Soap, SF has looking at a collapse in there vote before Christmas.

Thelonious Monk · 09-02-2020 2:12pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah. Who gives Margaret cash the free house, masses of cash. There’s 300,000,000 a year on th welfare bonus. Pays e1800 a month to rent the new luxury apartments in Dundrum and charges tenants fifty euro a week to rent them ... the answer is Fg

I gave SF my 2nd preference, but in fairness wouldn't SF want even more luxury apartments given to people like Mags? I thought that was how they roll, and why they always got lots of votes from the rough areas of Dublin.

09-02-2020 2:13pm

The problem with SF is that they've never really given up their links to the IRA and other similar ideologies. The South moved away from the troubles, but SF will seek to involve us in that swamp of hatred all over again.

God I seriously hope the Irish people are not foolish enough to unify the Island, since a SF government will be pushing that line for the next four years (with the UK happy to see them go). Why is it that every time the Republic starts to do well, Irish people go find ways to screw themselves?

09-02-2020 2:17pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

It's right to condemn SF when they have justified criminality to suit their cause and if they get into power they simply must follow the law of the land and condemn all criminal acts.
But to sling mud at SF for this and on the other hand not acknowledge that their should be dozens of white collar criminals serving time to this day in prison is hypocritical. The damage done to the country by pure corruption is immense and FF have been at the head of it for decades and the Irish public are really starting to remember this when a ballot paper is in front of them.

So... every time that someone criticises SF, they need to also post up that they consider FF to be crooks too? It can't just be assumed that we think that way?

Boards is full of threads/posts condemning the behavior of the other two major parties.

Ash.J.Williams · 09-02-2020 2:17pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

There are plenty of other parties that espouse very similar leftish-populist policies to Sinn Féin, but who haven't been complicit in murdering Gardaí, members of the Defence Forces, members of the Oireachtas, children, census-takers, the Collie Club... I could go on.

Sin fein got a strong vote from the defence forces this time.

CBear1993 · 09-02-2020 2:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The problem with SF is that they've never really given up their links to the IRA and other similar ideologies. The South moved away from the troubles, but SF will seek to involve us in that swamp of hatred all over again.

God I seriously hope the Irish people are not foolish enough to unify the Island, since a SF government will be pushing that line for the next four years (with the UK happy to see them go). Why is it that every time the Republic starts to do well, Irish people go find ways to screw themselves?

*** “The South” is that a large majority bar border ulster counties had no moving away from the troubles to do.

What have we come to

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