Compulsory retirement and the rise in the State pension age.

noodler wrote: »

Been stated a few times in the thread but nobody is paying any heed.

But is it true?

anewme wrote: »

But is it true?

Are you mental?

noodler wrote: »

Are you mental?

I don't work in public service so I dont know what they get. I'm not into begrudging one set of workers just because I'm nor getting it. Its fruitless and they are only paye workers at the end of the day.

Blame the puppet master, not the puppets.

august12 wrote: »

I know quite a few public sector pensioners who hadn't received a pension increase in over 7 years due to public sector pay freeze.

Lies tbh.

There's been PS pay increases every year since 2015.

By definition, an existing PS pensioner would have gotten an increase in their pension in each of the last five years as their salary is linked to the grade they retired on.

Bear in mind that increase would have been well, well in advance of inflation as measure by the headline CPI.

hapime wrote: »

How do you think the Government is going to pay for the thousands of refugees that it wants to bring to Ireland?
There is no extra money, so cuts must be made elsewhere, So suck it up people as you continue to vote for the same politicians year in year out, you only have yourself to blame.

It's amazing, even in Ireland, where the number of refugees in is absolutely tiny by any international comparison (and the relative cost compared to any other pending crisis area like pensions etc) you still have the odd headcase like this who attribute refugees as some sort of reason we have a pensions timebomb.

anewme wrote: »

Sorry, probably was not clear.

In fairness, that option is an extra safety net that most private sector employees do not have. Plus if you've a DB pension, it's a massive plus if you end up signing on the dole as an oap.

I've a friend coming up to 65 in private sector and she was told she cant stay but needs to as her mortgage runs to 70. Shes frantic.

I want to be gone at that stage but you never know.

As a private sector worker in my mid-40s with no property or inheritance to fall back on, and renting because I stupidly DIDN'T take the "free money" in the Tiger years but ended up paying for the mistakes of others anyway, there's a very real risk I'll end up with real problems by the time I'm forced to retire.

The current plan is to save enough money to be able to buy somewhere for cash when commuting considerations aren't a concern, but failing that I'll probably look to emigrate.

Whatever happens, no way I'll be living in poverty in a bedsit somewhere or as a burden on my son or something. Besides, I've seen the way many old people who don't have substantial means are treated in this country, or are pushed into old folks homes while the State takes their life savings.

No way will I live like that. Quality, not as quantity is what matters at that point.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So it's definitely nothing to do with the €8 billion or so that we spend on pensions then?

No - apparently it's all down to refugees.

Even when it was increased life expectancy coupled with a lower birth rate leading to a big change in the ratio of workers to retirees, I kinda knew it was the fault of the bloody refugees.

beggars_bush wrote: »

Tax the corporations who pay a very low rate

The very ones they gave generous and deluded tax breaks to ...

Vullcher funds etc set up, buy all our housing stocks, rent out at extortionate prices, pay as little as €250 tax for the whole tax year..... Yes they get to keep the complete price of the rent....

What an absolute dumb arse moron brought that clause in.... The government will absolutely destroy Ireland and honestly they've got a good head start already.

noodler wrote: »

They were subject to a separate cut which has been broadly reversed since AND have benefited from the link to PS workers increases in 2015-2019 outlined above.

I don't think its that simple

PS pensions which were cut in the crash have had a period of restoration but I don't believe that they have also had further increases based on restoration of workers pay

there are also many pensions that were not cut as the pension was under the threshold and so have not received any increase since the crash

The average pension was around 20,000 in 2018

anewme wrote: »

A pension of 20,000 is very good.

Just to point out that it's not in addition to the State Pension.

So after 40 years work it's just the difference between State Pension and 20k.

Not exactly a bonanza for low paid State employees.

noodler wrote: »

So you concede pensioners have gotten increases in their PS pensions in 2015, 2016,2017, 2018 and 2019 but you don't consider them increases?

You are very muddled.

There have been no increases in PS pensions or scales for some time, more than 15 years iirc. There has been some restoration of some cuts.

noodler wrote: »

1. All grades but the highest have restoration on their gross (PRD in some form or another is never going away and rightfully so).

Except that they don't have restoration of their pay thanks to the PRD, the additional pension deduction that doesn't go into a pension fund, has no link to your actual pension, and is deducted from low-wage staff who get no benefit for it beyond the standard state pension anyway.

noodler wrote: »

2. PS pensioners, although they get increases when PS workers do, did not get cuts during the crisis when PS workers did. They were subject to a separate cut which has been broadly reversed since AND have benefited from the link to PS workers increases in 2015-2019 outlined above.

I'm 90% sure that this is incorrect. Do you have any source to support your claims that;


- pensions did NOT get cuts
- pensioners got restorations of cuts that they never suffered

noodler wrote: »

For a start PRD isn't taken off anyone below 32k.

Isn't it €28,750 is the threshold? From http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/faq5.pdf

noodler wrote: »

Pensions did not get cuts? They did yeah, look up PSPR.

Thanks for this clarification - very helpful. I stand corrected.

noodler wrote: »

But the three PS pay cuts (incl. PRD) didn't impact on pensioners.

Not only has PSPR been broadly restored, but PS pensioners have gotten increases in each of the last four years (and will again in 2020) as their pensions are linked to the relevant service grade (which had always been the case).

I'm still confused about this. If the cuts didn't impact them, then how come the restoration of those cuts impacted them.

There have been in increases in grades in the last four years - just restoration of previous cuts. The grades haven't changed, so how can pensions linked to the grades have changed?

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I think PRD was replaced by ASC and the entry threshold for it was raised on 01/01/2020.

And previously on 01/2019.

The document the poster linked to has a date of mid 2018 which strengthens my belief he/she is pretty uninformed on the issues being discussed.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The only sure way to insulate oneself from not getting the benefit of decades of payment towards the state pension is be careful not to contribute to any private pension.

There is no point paying into a private scheme, accumulating say 300k on the idea that you will double your state pension and have a decent retirement, if you are just going to make oneself ineligible for the state one, and end up living on the same as someone who saved nothing.

Private pensions are dead for all but the superwealthy for whom the state pension is neither here nor there.

This is the grift the govt is setting up - get suckers to pay for two pensions while they are working, but only give them the benefits of one of them, when the day comes. You may as well spend and enjoy now rather than saving for someone else's pension.

Surely most private pensions would be giving more than a thousand a month? I would not want to live my old age on the state pension and will carry on putting money away for my retirement.
Fck living in poverty on a state pension.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They dont.The average is less than €500 a month.

To equal the state pension would require having a fund of over 300k at retirement.
And if you have that, then, the state may well say "you're OK, you have your 1k a month so no need to give you a state pension as well, sorry we cant afford it, we need it to give something to all those who have no private pension at all and will starve if we dont give them a 1000 a month".
Making people work to 68 is just another way of reducing when they would have to start paying.

Of course it is?

Was there ever another reason?

4 workers supporting each pensioner now, will be 2 in the next 30 years.

It costs about 230m a year for the State Pension at a static rate with the additional numbers of retired coming onboard.

It's already a difficult to sustain at current PSRI rates

What's really making it unsustainable is adding a further 200m a year cost onto that every time they decide to increase it universally by a fiver regardless of whether your a person with three pension schemes alongside your State one or if you are living one with it as your sole means of income.


I don't believe it'll ever be the case someone wouldn't be eligible at all (he'll, even now someone without the required stamps gets a huge chunk of the 250 p.m) but what they could do as money gets tight is means-test any future increase.

noodler wrote: »

The link between PS pay and existing PS pensioners is one way - upwards.

The scales for the grades increased.

With the LRA agreement (2015-2017) and the the PSSA agreement (2017-2020). Annual increases across the board.

There were no increases - only restoration of previous cuts.

_Brian wrote: »

My dad looked forward to his pension and retirement, brought us out for dinner when he got it. Then died suddenly 6 months later.

"past performance is not an indicator of future performance"

elperello wrote: »

Worth noting that TD's and Senators can happily work away over 65.

If they did some fecking work before they turned 65 we'd be in a better place now.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Facts directly relevant to the question of pension cuts/restoration.

By definition, it's an increase.

2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and again in 2020.

(Ignoring increments of course).


There's alot you don't seem to know but again, even the cuts have been paid back in full and then some for all but the highest paid.