Compulsory retirement and the rise in the State pension age.

The Tetrarch

And I was lucky.
I got a company pension.
The pension scheme was about 10% funded and those who remained got shafted.

The Tetrarch

noodler wrote: »

Not true.

Vast majority of PS workers working now can't get their pension until 65+ even if they have clicked 40 years before.

They are immune to not having a job, pressurised by management who want to downsize, cut costs, reduce numbers.
I had about 20 years service so my pension was 20/60, and there is no annual increase for inflation.

Tony EH

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The problem for private sector workers is not that they will have to work until they are 68.
I worked in a private sector company with 1,500 employees. The oldest employee in that company was 61 years old.
In the private sector older workers are forced out, or allowed retire early on short-service pensions.
I took early retirement at age 56, and obviously could not find work in the ten years before I received the state pension at 66.

This seems to be something that a lot of people are completely unaware of and it's going to be something that nearly everyone will have to deal with.

I've said it many times on these boards over the last decade or so. Take a look around your current workplace and count the number of people who are in their mid 50's. You probably won't see too many. You'll see even less people in their 60's.

Companies just don't hire people of that age in general, regardless of experience or qualification. They'd much rather hire a 20 or 30 something so they can pay them less and treat like shit, while claiming that it's normal.

Christ, I know professionals in their 40's, with 20+ years of work behind them, that find it hard to get work.

Ireland's workplaces are absolutely rife with ageism and that needs to be tackled in a very serious way, because there is a real fat disaster in the near future if it isn't, especially when all of those people who bought overpriced houses find out they can't get a job to pay the mortgage, or they find out that the dole they have to sign onto won't cover the rent, which will be far in excess of what we have now if things continue going the way they are.

Mr. teddywinkles

Touchee wrote: »

There should definitely be a protest or even a number of protests about pushing the retirement age. There is no way people can keep working until 68: just picture having to commute 1 hour each way at the age of 68, waking up at 6-7 am, keeping up with new technology and competing with 25 - 40 year old colleagues.

There are a lot of companies who take pride that they have a young workforce, which is also being advertised to potential recruits. You never hear about companies advertising to recruits as having an old, pensionable workforce.

I would organise a protest myself, but wouldn’t even know where to start

An hour commute by then with the way infrastructure is going here. Your having a laugh.

Touchee

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

An hour commute by then with the way infrastructure is going here. Your having a laugh.

I was trying to be positive

mariaalice

Before paranoia sets in my husband in his 60s is working in private industry and is working with similarly aged colleagues and colleagues of all ages. He got this job when he was 59 although he had worked for the company before.

AulWan

The Tetrarch wrote: »

They are immune to not having a job, pressurised by management who want to downsize, cut costs, reduce numbers.
I had about 20 years service so my pension was 20/60, and there is no annual increase for inflation.

I'm sorry, but did you totally ignore the last recession?

When the public sector was drained - the number of retirements of staff that left but were never replaced, the recruitment freeze, the wage cuts that still haven't been restored?

Far from immune to it, the pressure on PS workers was immense.

The Tetrarch

AulWan wrote: »

I'm sorry, but did you totally ignore the last recession?

When the public sector was drained - the number of retirements of staff that left but were never replaced, the recruitment freeze, the wage cuts that still haven't been restored?

Far from immune to it, the pressure on PS workers was immense.

In the private sector the equivalent is business closure, not retirement.
In the private sector "recruitment freeze" meant jobs not available for the unemployed.

AulWan

The Tetrarch wrote: »

In the private sector the equivalent is business closure, not retirement.
In the private sector "recruitment freeze" meant jobs not available for the unemployed.

That does not mean that public sector workers were immune to pressures like downsizing or cost cutting.

Your dismissive attitude towards those working in the public sector is misplaced and unwarranted.

AndrewJRenko

Tony EH wrote: »

This seems to be something that a lot of people are completely unaware of and it's going to be something that nearly everyone will have to deal with.

I've said it many times on these boards over the last decade or so. Take a look around your current workplace and count the number of people who are in their mid 50's. You probably won't see too many. You'll see even less people in their 60's.

Companies just don't hire people of that age in general, regardless of experience or qualification. They'd much rather hire a 20 or 30 something so they can pay them less and treat like shit, while claiming that it's normal.

Christ, I know professionals in their 40's, with 20+ years of work behind them, that find it hard to get work.

Ireland's workplaces are absolutely rife with ageism and that needs to be tackled in a very serious way, because there is a real fat disaster in the near future if it isn't, especially when all of those people who bought overpriced houses find out they can't get a job to pay the mortgage, or they find out that the dole they have to sign onto won't cover the rent, which will be far in excess of what we have now if things continue going the way they are.

Public sector employers are pretty good for not being ageist or ableist or racist or sexist or whatever. So older people and others who are having difficulties finding employment will get a fair whack in most public sector employers.

AulWan wrote: »

That does not mean that public sector workers were immune to pressures like downsizing or cost cutting.

Your dismissive attitude towards those working in the public sector is misplaced and unwarranted.

Not to mention the increased demand for services like social welfare and health and other areas that were services with reduced staff levels.

anewme

Do public service workers get the equivalent of DB or DC pensions?

AndrewJRenko

anewme wrote: »

Do public service workers get the equivalent of DB or DC pensions?

All public sector (civil service, local authorites, statutory agencies) are on DB schemes. All staff recruited from 2013 onwards are on the fairly spartan Single Pension Scheme.



Some commercial bodies (ESB, Bord Gais) have their own pension schemes, mostly still DB afaik.


Pension schemes are funded from current expenditure, so there is NO actual pension fund.

Tony EH

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Public sector employers are pretty good for not being ageist or ableist or racist or sexist or whatever. So older people and others who are having difficulties finding employment will get a fair whack in most public sector employers.

It's the private sector I am talking about. The sector where most people have to find employment.

AndrewJRenko

Tony EH wrote: »

It's the private sector I am talking about. The sector where most people have to find employment.

Yep, I'm aware of that - just pointing out a current alternative for those who want to consider it.

anewme

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

All public sector (civil service, local authorites, statutory agencies) are on DB schemes. All staff recruited from 2013 onwards are on the fairly spartan Single Pension Scheme.



Some commercial bodies (ESB, Bord Gais) have their own pension schemes, mostly still DB afaik.


Pension schemes are funded from current expenditure, so there is NO actual pension fund.

Anyone left on a DB scheme has a huge benefit.

AndrewJRenko

anewme wrote: »

Anyone left on a DB scheme has a huge benefit.

It's not that simple. It depends first on the level of benefit available.

In the public sector, it also depends on the willingness of future governments to live up to their commitments.

anewme

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not that simple. It depends first on the level of benefit available.

In the public sector, it also depends on the willingness of future governments to live up to their commitments.

A DB is a massive benefit though, and the Govt. wont get away with shafting people, the way many in Private Sector were shafted.

Nor should they.

A friend of mine lost DB about 10 years ago, and only now when retirement looms, is it clear how much was lost.

noodler

The Tetrarch wrote: »

They are immune to not having a job, pressurised by management who want to downsize, cut costs, reduce numbers.
I had about 20 years service so my pension was 20/60, and there is no annual increase for inflation.

Oh there's an annual increase for PS pensioners.

The pension is linked to the grade. And it goes up by quite a bit more than inflation.

Varta

There is probably no need to increase the pension age at all. The growing levels of obesity will likely reverse the longer life expectancy that we have been witnessing.

punisher5112

When the ESB done a big cull the staff that retired early even got free public transport.

They were given special ESB/cie passes so could/can travel anywhere in Ireland for free.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

punisher5112 wrote: »

When the ESB done a big cull the staff that retired early even got free public transport.

They were given special ESB/cie passes so could/can travel anywhere in Ireland for free.

That I know for certain is complete nonsense.

punisher5112

Edison Lazy Pavilion wrote: »

That I know for certain is complete nonsense.

It actually isn't as I was shown them on many occasions. We were even shown them in training.

This is the same bull I hear that drug addicts don't get free travel as they do....

political analyst

A desk-job in the public sector isn't physically draining (though I acknowledge it's still very stressful for many employees). So why are they subject to manual retirement at 65? They could work into their 70s if they were allowed to.

anewme

political analyst wrote: »

A desk-job in the public sector isn't physically draining (though I acknowledge it's still very stressful for many employees). So why are they subject to manual retirement at 65? They could work into their 70s if they were allowed to.

Are all public sector not allowed stay till 70 now?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

punisher5112 wrote: »

It actually isn't as I was shown them on many occasions. We were even shown them in training.

This is the same bull I hear that drug addicts don't get free travel as they do....

I have somebody here with me right now who took early retirement from the ESB, after 34 years there, in 2011. He got no such free travel and has to get his pass at 66 like everybody else. He says he regularly meets other retirees (so of whom went on earlier deals ) and there has been discussion when some of them finally get their travel passes. So, not bull: Fact.

punisher5112

Edison Lazy Pavilion wrote: »

I have somebody here with me right now who took early retirement from the ESB, after 34 years there, in 2011. He got no such free travel and has to get his pass at 66 like everybody else. He says he regularly meets other retirees (so of whom went on earlier deals ) and there has been discussion when some of them finally get their travel passes. So, not bull: Fact.

It may well be higher ups but I can tell you for a fact as a db employee we were told to accept them as they were free travel passes.

They had ESB and CIE on them.

I'd love if I could find a photo but it has been a while since seen any.

Look I could not give a rat's tail if you don't believe me, I have no reason to make it up and I'm just telling you what we were shown and told to accept.

AulWan

political analyst wrote: »

A desk-job in the public sector isn't physically draining (though I acknowledge it's still very stressful for many employees). So why are they subject to manual retirement at 65? They could work into their 70s if they were allowed to.

I worked with two people personally who made requests to stay after age 65, both were refused, even though they were fit and well able to remain.

One of them did find another job, but part time only. The other became a full time childminder for her grandchildren.

anewme

AulWan wrote: »

I worked with two people personally who made requests to stay after age 65, both were refused, even though they were fit and well able to remain.

One of them did find another job, but part time only. The other became a full time childminder for her grandchildren.

Is thr compulsory age not 70 now?

AulWan

noodler wrote: »

Oh there's an annual increase for PS pensioners.

The pension is linked to the grade. And it goes up by quite a bit more than inflation.

Pension increases are linked to the grade at retirement, but they are not annual.

noodler

anewme wrote: »

Are all public sector not allowed stay till 70 now?

Been stated a few times in the thread but nobody is paying any heed.