Should ownership of cats be banned?

zerosugarbuzz · 28-12-2020 6:04pm

badaj0z wrote: »

The Biggest Bird Killers
I found the figures below with simple Google searches. They are both from the UK and from publications that support the lead ban in shooting. Look closely. You will soon note that the figures show that cats kill 270 times as many birds than are killed by lead shot. It is time to look at banning cats.

https://www.birdguides.com/news/uk-s...public%20alike.

The decision comes despite the well-known negative impacts of lead poisoning in both humans and wildlife. More than 6,000 tonnes of lead ammunition are fired over the UK countryside every year in areas where birds feed, and are left behind strewn on the ground. Birds often mistake tiny shot pellets for grit or seeds, and ingest them. Up to 100,000 waterbirds in the UK die every year through ingesting poisonous lead shot. Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and 'invisible' to shooters and the wider public alike.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wi...0been%20caught.

The most recent figures of how many creatures are killed by cats are from the Mammal Society. They estimate that cats in the UK catch up to 100 million prey items over spring and summer, of which 27 million are birds.
This is the number of prey items which were known to have been caught. We don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably:
• house sparrows
• blue tits
• blackbirds
• starlings
badaj0z is offline Report Post

Birds kill other birds too. Wasn’t there a picture of a sparrow halk killing a starling posted here to other day to much applause? I was thinking at the time it would be a different reaction for a cat. Anyway No, banning cats is a stupid suggestion.

zerosugarbuzz · 28-12-2020 6:05pm

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true, not even a little bit.

I think it definitely is true, true even with cats.

whisky_galore · 28-12-2020 6:07pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The keeping of cats should be banned unless they are declawed.

They have teeth too. Should those be pulled out?

magicbastarder · 28-12-2020 6:56pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Birds kill other birds too. Wasn’t there a picture of a sparrow halk killing a starling posted here to other day to much applause? I was thinking at the time it would be a different reaction for a cat.

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

beauf · 28-12-2020 7:56pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

I'm not sure why this is important.

magicbastarder · 28-12-2020 8:01pm

Because the only thing that should be looking wildlife like that is other wildlife.
And because a pet is fed by humans and doesn't need it for food so the death of a bird is in vain in that context.

ampleforth · 28-12-2020 8:04pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

I bet the spider society is flabbergasted by your lighthearted comment

beauf · 28-12-2020 9:16pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

Because the only thing that should be looking wildlife like that is other wildlife.
And because a pet is fed by humans and doesn't need it for food so the death of a bird is in vain in that context.

Nature seems to disagree with you.

Cat is hardwired to hunt. It's their natural instinct. If returned to the wild they will revert to that.

Of course birds have wings they have no reason to come into the urban environment with in range of a pet cat unless they are baited down with people feeding them and baiting their gardens.

Natural selection at work.

zerosugarbuzz · 28-12-2020 9:34pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

argh. again, are you serious? I am confusing nothing, I don't think you understand nature, birds kill native insects if you want to bring it to that level. Anyway its a ridiculous argument, cats are here to stay and the birds are thriving so no problem.

magicbastarder · 28-12-2020 9:44pm

beauf wrote: »

Nature seems to disagree with you.

Cat is hardwired to hunt. It's their natural instinct. If returned to the wild they will revert to that.

so, if lions escaped in the phoenix park, we should leave them be as them eating all the deer would only be natural?
should we forget about the issues of non-native, and pet animals because 'it's only nature'?

if i shouldn't care about a cat killing sparrows for *no* benefit in my back garden, should i be allowed start killing them too?

magicbastarder · 28-12-2020 9:45pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

argh. again, are you serious?

yes, i am. nothing you have said addresses my points, or else you misunderstand them.

Stihl waters · 28-12-2020 9:45pm

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true, not even a little bit.

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses which most people wouldn't be very comfortable with, the cats are a deterrent to this, while they may not have any great effect on rat populations they certainly keep unwanted vermin away

badaj0z · 28-12-2020 10:12pm

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

banning cats is a stupid suggestion.

Please explain why?

OpenYourEyes · 28-12-2020 10:18pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses which most people wouldn't be very comfortable with, the cats are a deterrent to this, while they may not have any great effect on rat populations they certainly keep unwanted vermin away

You'll be surprised to hear that there are houses and neighborhoods that don't have any free roaming cats, and yet those same areas are not inundated with rats as a result...

Scotty # · 28-12-2020 10:41pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses...

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

beauf · 28-12-2020 11:10pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

so, if lions escaped in the phoenix park, we should leave them be as them eating all the deer would only be natural?
should we forget about the issues of non-native, and pet animals because 'it's only nature'?

if i shouldn't care about a cat killing sparrows for *no* benefit in my back garden, should i be allowed start killing them too?

It's of benefit to the cat.

We've already got rules for Lions and Cats.

We could always stop birds in urban areas. That would solve the conflict for people struggling with nature.

beauf · 28-12-2020 11:11pm

Scotty # wrote: »

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

Maybe there's not enough cats...

Stihl waters · 28-12-2020 11:11pm

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

You'll be surprised to hear that there are houses and neighborhoods that don't have any free roaming cats, and yet those same areas are not inundated with rats as a result...

And luckily for them, the area I'm living in is crawling with rats, I had an infestation of them every winter where I was sick of trying to get rid of them every year, (poisoning, live trap, sonar and dead traps) got 2 cats and problem solved nearly instantly, no rats in the shed or sitting on the washing machine when I went in to the shed and plenty dead rats left at the door, i haven't seen a rat in nearly 3 years around my house, all down to my cats. I'd imagine rats aren't everywhere but different things will attract them to move into an area that can maintain their population, maybe you don't see cats in some neighbourhood's as people don't need to have them as there's no major rat problem.

Stihl waters · 28-12-2020 11:15pm

Scotty # wrote: »

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

I'd have a rat problem and had until I got my cats, problem solved, you're telling me cats dropping dead rats at the door isn't curing the problem, maybe not but they act as a deterrent, which is good enough for me

Valresnick · 28-12-2020 11:20pm

Dogs always off the leads in the biosphere nature reserve on Dollymount beach. Idiot owners walking through the dunes like they’re the lord of the manor. Don’t ban anything, just tax or fine irresponsible owners.

beauf · 28-12-2020 11:38pm

https://youtu.be/eWuQRSOK0bw

kildare lad · 29-12-2020 10:08pm

Valresnick wrote: »

Dogs always off the leads in the biosphere nature reserve on Dollymount beach. Idiot owners walking through the dunes like they’re the lord of the manor. Don’t ban anything, just tax or fine irresponsible owners.

A lot of pet owners in general don't really care about anything other than themselves . There's signs in my local park about dogs to be kept on leashes and yet very few do . There was uproar last year when a dog killed a cygnet in the park lake . It's the same with bags of dog pooh thrown into the bushes instead of carrying it to the nearest bin .

Johnner2 · 29-12-2020 10:36pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

are they permanently locked indoors

magicbastarder · 29-12-2020 10:49pm

yep. IIRC it was originally a strict condition of the cat rescue organisation we got them from, but now they advise it. especially if you live near a busy road.

magicbastarder · 29-12-2020 10:50pm

kildare lad wrote: »

It's the same with bags of dog pooh thrown into the bushes instead of carrying it to the nearest bin .

saw this twice on a recent walk in some woods. dog **** bags hanging from trees. i mean, why even bother going to the effort of bagging it if that's what you're going to do? just kick it into the undergrowth.

beauf · 29-12-2020 11:26pm

kildare lad wrote: »

A lot of pet owners in general don't really care about anything other than themselves . ....

Isn't that true of this thread aswell. Choosing birds over everything else.

That said farming and humans arguably have a much larger effect. We are destroying biodiversity in nature. It was noticeable in the first lockdown how much nature seemed to come back.

kildare lad · 29-12-2020 11:55pm

beauf wrote: »

Isn't that true of this thread aswell. Choosing birds over everything else.

That said farming and humans arguably have a much larger effect. We are destroying biodiversity in nature. It was noticeable in the first lockdown how much nature seemed to come back.

Choosing birds over cats ?? Well it is a wildlife page and cats have no place in the wild , I'm sure it would be a different opinion on a pet /cat lovers page . You're right about farming and biodiversity though . But due to growing population people need to be fed.

beauf · 30-12-2020 12:22am

Out of curiosity I looked up the numbers.

I'm open to correction but. They reckon there are 325k cats in Ireland. Maybe 200k are feral apparently. There are a number of organisations trying to control their population.

The focus on this thread is solely on domestic cats (ownership being banned) and not feral cats at all.

tabby aspreme · 30-12-2020 12:48am

beauf wrote: »

Out of curiosity I looked up the numbers.

I'm open to correction but. They reckon there are 325k cats in Ireland. Maybe 200k are feral apparently. There are a number of organisations trying to control their population.

The focus on this thread is solely on domestic cats (ownership being banned) and not feral cats at all.

Very rare to see feral cats nowadays, they were very plentiful when I was a child, as were household cats, as none were neutered.
How much of the decline in small bird population is attributed to the decline in the insect numbers, when I
started driving, the car windscreen would be covered in dead insects during the summer, same mowing meadows for silage or hay, insects crawling all over the machinery, you see neither nowadays. The cats here might catch a bird outside, once a year, but catch mice all the time, particularly in the autumn, they could get 4 or 5 a day, and probably more at night.

whisky_galore · 30-12-2020 1:00am

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very rare to see feral cats nowadays, they were very plentiful when I was a child, as were household cats, as none were neutered.
How much of the decline in small bird population is attributed to the decline in the insect numbers, when I
started driving, the car windscreen would be covered in dead insects during the summer, same mowing meadows for silage or hay, insects crawling all over the machinery, you see neither nowadays. The cats here might catch a bird outside, once a year, but catch mice all the time, particularly in the autumn, they could get 4 or 5 a day, and probably more at night.

It's a monoculture now, every field for fodder or grazing is a small number of grass varieties, no meadows of wildflowers.

kildare lad · 30-12-2020 1:06am

beauf wrote: »

Out of curiosity I looked up the numbers.

I'm open to correction but. They reckon there are 325k cats in Ireland. Maybe 200k are feral apparently. There are a number of organisations trying to control their population.

The focus on this thread is solely on domestic cats (ownership being banned) and not feral cats at all.

Most people don't have a problem with cats even people who don't like them like me . It's the owners that are the problem . If you've a cat, desexed and chipped and keep it indoors or have your property in such a way that the cat stays in there I've no problem with it .

But it's the people that have cats , head off to work and let the cats out all day. Pissing and ****ting in neighbours gardens , stalking bird feeders , scratching cars etc is the problem . While feral cats do no favours to wildlife here , they're causing extinctions in australia , New Zealand and other delicate island eco systems . In australia they've to build feral cat proof sanctuaries because of the predation on the small mammals due to feral cats. The funny thing is whenever wildlife groups try and do something to get rid of the ferals , to protect native wildlife , the crazy cat lobby oppose it . Theyd rather an native animals go extinct that something happen to a cat. Heres a good youtube video about the damage feral cats do when left unchecked and the people trying to save mammals from extinction in australia

https://youtu.be/5Op-eTY1Fbw

beauf · 30-12-2020 2:09am

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very rare to see feral cats nowadays, they were very plentiful when I was a child, as were household cats, as none were neutered.
How much of the decline in small bird population is attributed to the decline in the insect numbers, when I
started driving, the car windscreen would be covered in dead insects during the summer, same mowing meadows for silage or hay, insects crawling all over the machinery, you see neither nowadays. The cats here might catch a bird outside, once a year, but catch mice all the time, particularly in the autumn, they could get 4 or 5 a day, and probably more at night.

I did notice the insects. But I mostly drive in the city. They used to be hard to clean off the car.

I was curious about the feral population. Seems to be the bigger issue. I was surprised.

AutoTuning · 30-12-2020 2:13am

I’d be much more concerned about the loss of insects and habitat. There’s been a severe decline in insect populations.

Domestic cats have been around for tens of thousand of years, without vast impact and cats were neither neutered nor particularly coddled in the past, so probably hunted a lot more than your average suburban cat in 2020, so something else is going on.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2019/02/why-insect-populations-are-plummeting-and-why-it-matters/

It would seem to me that we need to solve the insect issue very urgently or it will be entire ecosystems collapsing, including the ones that produce our food.

The decline figures are very dramatic and people are noticing it anecdotally too. You definitely don’t see as many flies and insects on windscreens or around in general as you once did. So what’s changed? Widespread use of new insecticides? Change to farming?

touts · 30-12-2020 2:16am

There is a neighbours cat who keeps ****ting in my veg garden. I've seen it do it and chased it off. I've said it to the neighbour who doesn't give a damn. Have tried netting, scent, ultrasonic etc. Bastard cat ignores it all. Every time I dig in the garden it's full of cat **** so I am very worried about the parasites in the vegetables. Very close to setting a few rat traps around my veg patch and letting it go back to the neighbour with a leg missing. I know that sounds awful but it's at the point where I see the neighbour not caring about the parasites my children could be picking up from his cat. Children vs cat. Well sorry but the cat loses that debate every time.

AutoTuning · 30-12-2020 2:18am

I’d suggest discussing whether the cat’s wormed with your neighbour before resorting to violence and animal cruelty.

We get foxes, cats, hedgehogs etc and they all poo in the garden. That’s just the reality of outdoors.

beauf · 30-12-2020 2:20am

kildare lad wrote: »

Most people don't have a problem with cats even people who don't like them like me . It's the owners that are the problem . If you've a cat, desexed and chipped and keep it indoors or have your property in such a way that the cat stays in there I've no problem with it .

But it's the people that have cats , head off to work and let the cats out all day. Pissing and ****ting in neighbours gardens , stalking bird feeders , scratching cars etc is the problem . While feral cats do no favours to wildlife here , they're causing extinctions in australia , New Zealand and other delicate island eco systems . In australia they've to build feral cat proof sanctuaries because of the predation on the small mammals due to feral cats. The funny thing is whenever wildlife groups try and do something to get rid of the ferals , to protect native wildlife , the crazy cat lobby oppose it . Theyd rather an native animals go extinct that something happen to a cat. Heres a good youtube video about the damage feral cats do when left unchecked and the people trying to save mammals from extinction in australia

Kinda of agreeing there, that its still feral cats causing the issue with wildlife.

Can't really complain about domestic cats damaging cars and gardens if you're encouraging birds to do the same by baiting birds into the garden with bird feeders, which then baits the cats with birds. Kinda instigating a chain of events, thats causing the very issue you're complaining about.

beauf · 30-12-2020 2:24am

AutoTuning wrote: »

I’d be much more concerned about the loss of insects and habitat. There’s been a severe decline in insect populations.

Domestic cats have been around for tens of thousand of years, without vast impact and cats were neither neutered nor particularly coddled in the past, so probably hunted a lot more than your average suburban cat in 2020, so something else is going on.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2019/02/why-insect-populations-are-plummeting-and-why-it-matters/

It would seem to me that we need to solve the insect issue very urgently or it will be entire ecosystems collapsing, including the ones that produce our food.

The decline figures are very dramatic and people are noticing it anecdotally too. You definitely don’t see as many flies and insects on windscreens or around in general as you once did. So what’s changed? Widespread use of new insecticides? Change to farming?

Lack of diversity in the rural ecology. Farming gets more efficient as it gets less profitable. There's also issues around forestry and such.

touts · 30-12-2020 2:24am

AutoTuning wrote: »

I’d suggest discussing whether the cat’s wormed with your neighbour before resorting to violence and animal cruelty.

Done that. He says he can't control the cat. I haven't decided what I will do but I'm at the end of my tether. I've given him fair warning. I don't see it as violence or animal cruelty. It is defending my children. I may have no choice come the spring when I set the next batch of vegetables that my family will eat. I'll tell him about the traps and it is up to him to keep his cat safe by keeping it under control and away from my property.

beauf · 30-12-2020 2:34am

I expect growing vegetables is more a hobby than a survival issue feeding kids.

But regardless, no one wants cats (or birds) constantly dumping over your garden, and belongings.

I've heard said fresh citrus, and water scarecrows might work. Most of the other remedies I've never seen work.

AutoTuning · 30-12-2020 2:45am

I think to be quite honest we are getting a bit ridiculous on the cat thing. The problem is humans. Cats are just companion animals that are found as part of human settlements for millennia.

We have completely altered the landscape. Ireland basically has no wildernesses at all. It’s one big network of farms. It’s fairly clear that we are also having a profound impact on insect populations, destroy habitats, create huge amounts of noise and pollution.

Even our gardening activities are often aimed at making something look visually pleasing by cleaning it up, cutting grasses and hedges and leaving nothing wild.

I’ve deliberately left areas of leaf heavy leaf litter every winter and part of my garden is now more like natural woodland and has brought loads of insects, butterflies and birds. We’re also seeing red squirrels and hedgehogs.

The local cats don’t seem to be doing much more than lazing around the place and the birds, in trees, are well able to avoid them.

I would strongly caution against bird tables. You’re encouraging birds into low down exposed areas that that don’t usually hang about in. If you are feeding birds do it with well positioned tree hung feeders. There are cats, foxes and even the odd pine marten that will see that bird table as a snacking ground. You’re just baiting a natural trap.

The biggest issue I have in the garden with dumping on things are wood pigeons. They seem to take aim at cars or sit on the roof edge pooing over the side causing huge amounts of poop.

kildare lad · 30-12-2020 11:16am

beauf wrote: »

I expect growing vegetables is more a hobby than a survival issue feeding kids.

But regardless, no one wants cats (or birds) constantly dumping over your garden, and belongings.

I've heard said fresh citrus, and water scarecrows might work. Most of the other remedies I've never seen work.

So what if it's a hobby , I'm sure if he wanted a cat shxtting and pissing in his garden he'd buy one . It just goes to show you the mentality of pet owners. It's shows a lack of respect if you to your neighbours if you refuse to keep your pets on your property .My aunt had the same attitude letting her cat wonder off all day . It used to piss off 2 of her neighbours . Guess what, the cat disappeared . My uncle said she was devastated but said it was her own fault .

kildare lad · 30-12-2020 11:23am

touts wrote: »

Done that. He says he can't control the cat. I haven't decided what I will do but I'm at the end of my tether. I've given him fair warning. I don't see it as violence or animal cruelty. It is defending my children. I may have no choice come the spring when I set the next batch of vegetables that my family will eat. I'll tell him about the traps and it is up to him to keep his cat safe by keeping it under control and away from my property.

I heard if you put down strong chilli powder on the route the cat takes . It's meant to irritate them when it gets into their paws and they rub it on themselves. Google it, there's plenty of info on it. I wouldn't bother saying anything else to him , if you're gonna do something about the cat. Cats go missing all the time ,more so if people let roam around all day

beauf · 30-12-2020 11:28am

kildare lad wrote: »

So what if it's a hobby , I'm sure if he wanted a cat shxtting and pissing in his garden he'd buy one .

Ironically getting a cat is one of the best ways of keeping other cats out.

kildare lad wrote: »

It just goes to show you the mentality of pet owners. It's shows a lack of respect if you to your neighbours if you refuse to keep your pets on your property ..

The only way to keep cats in once place is to lock them up.

Encouraging birds especially large birds with bird feeders is doing the same thing.

I know one person a neighbor who has both cats and bird feeders and a nature lover. Refused to listen to all reason. All the neighbours cut down their trees, solved the bird dropping problem for them. The nature lover was horrified, but can't see they caused it. They fell out with lots of people over the cats and birds. But think its everyone else at fault.

beauf · 30-12-2020 11:29am

kildare lad wrote: »

...Cats go missing all the time ,more so if people let roam around all day

Same with birds...

kildare lad · 30-12-2020 11:30am

beauf wrote: »

Kinda of agreeing there, that its still feral cats causing the issue with wildlife.

Can't really complain about domestic cats damaging cars and gardens if you're encouraging birds to do the same by baiting birds into the garden with bird feeders, which then baits the cats with birds. Kinda instigating a chain of events, thats causing the very issue you're complaining about.

It's not just feral cats doing that to wildlife , domestic cats do it too. Do you not understand that if it's YOUR cat in should be on your property ??? Even if you don't have feeders they still come in . So if I enjoy feeding birds in my garden I shouldn't complain if a neighbours cats kills a few of them . I'm sorry but that kind of attitude stinks . What ever happened to having a bit of responsibility and respect for people.

beauf · 30-12-2020 11:37am

kildare lad wrote: »

It's not just feral cats doing that to wildlife , domestic cats do it too. Do you not understand that if it's YOUR cat in should be on your property ??? Even if you don't have feeders they still come in . So if I enjoy feeding birds in my garden I shouldn't complain if a neighbours cats kills a few of them . I'm sorry but that kind of attitude stinks . What ever happened to having a bit of responsibility and respect for people.

Its mostly feral cats. As they need it for food and birds are more common in rural area. Since thats where their food is.

"the total number of bird species declines once an area is urbanized"

Don't have a cat, but I do know you can't control them other than locking them up. Do you not know that ???

You don't seem to have a problem with cats disappearing, but do with birds. You want tolerance and respect for bird lovers, but not for cat lovers. Seems more than a little hypocritical.

magicbastarder · 30-12-2020 11:55am

beauf wrote: »

You want tolerance and respect for bird lovers, but not for cat lovers.

are people not explaining this well enough, or are you just ignoring the point?
is wanting the grey squirrel to disappear so the reds can return somehow hypocritical too?

this is the nature and birdwatching forum. many posters here love native wildlife, and i would hazard a guess would place the life of someone else's pet cat on around the same level as a treecreeper that cat has just killed, say. so why wouldn't they call for the control of cats?
as has been said, if it was your neighbour's dog coming into your garden, killing animals, you'd have an absolute expectation that the owner should be able to take control of the dog and prevent this from happening. it's quite legal to shoot dogs in certain contexts if they enter your property (albeit not in an urban context)

i don't want my neighbour's cats coming into my garden killing birds (as i have seen on occasion). they're pets, and have plenty of food.
we don't allow our own cats out. they're happy as clams.

kildare lad · 30-12-2020 12:07pm

beauf wrote: »

Its mostly feral cats. As they need it for food and birds are more common in rural area. Since thats where their food is.

Don't have a cat, but I do know you can't control them other than locking them up. Do you not know that ???

You don't seem to have a problem with cats disappearing, but do with birds. You want tolerance and respect for bird lovers, but not for cat lovers. Seems more than a little hypocritical.

You're wrong, You can cat proof your garden if it's not too big. Your cat can play outside then without him going into people gardens or getting run over. Many Cats live their whole lives inside with no problems so I don't know where you're going about not being able to control them . Cats are pets they'll never disappear . Do you realise that you are on a nature and birdwatching page ??? You sound a bit like me going onto the rugby thread telling everyone that rugby is crap

beauf · 30-12-2020 12:13pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

are people not explaining this well enough, or are you just ignoring the point?
is wanting the grey squirrel to disappear so the reds can return somehow hypocritical too?

this is the nature and birdwatching forum. many posters here love native wildlife, and i would hazard a guess would place the life of a garden bird on around the same level as a treecreeper, say. so why wouldn't they call for the control of cats?
as has been said, if it was your neighbour's dog coming into your garden, killing animals, you'd have an absolute expectation that the owner should be able to take control of the dog and prevent this from happening. it's quite legal to shoot dogs in certain contexts if they enter your property (albeit not in an urban context)

i don't want my neighbour's cats coming into my garden killing birds (as i have seen on occasion). they're pets, and have plenty of food.
we don't allow our own cats out. they're happy as clams.

I could make the same argument about encouraging large birds into gardens to displace small birds. You can shoot birds in certain context. Bird feeders are as anti social as letting cats roam. Interestingly Bird feeders can also spread disease between species and between grey and red squirrels. Likewise bird feeders bringing cats and people into conflict.

I have no love for birds or cats, or dogs dumping in my garden. But each group thinks they have a moral high ground over the other. You are all doing the same thing.

beauf · 30-12-2020 12:20pm

kildare lad wrote: »

You're wrong, You can cat proof your garden if it's not too big.

No need for this thread then.

kildare lad wrote: »

Your cat can play outside then without him going into people gardens or getting run over. Many Cats live their whole lives inside with no problems so I don't know where you're going about not being able to control them . Cats are pets they'll never disappear . Do you realise that you are on a nature and birdwatching page ??? You sound a bit like me going onto the rugby thread telling everyone that rugby is crap

Since this is an open form, the titles appear in the "Latest Posts" view. If boards allowed people to filter out people and sub forums from this view it would be very convenient. Or forums could ask not to appear there.

I was just curious why people want cats banned. Then more curious since much of the reasons for wanting cats banned also applies to birds. Also since its things like bird feeders causing much of the problem. If you were to ban free roaming cats, it not unreasonable to ban bird feeders. since one is as antisocial as the other.

Since I don't have pets, I have no skin in the argument. The duality of the argument got me curious.

Should ownership of cats be banned?

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