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Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    I can only give my personal opinion based on how I think the market has changed in recent years but in short, I'd say no.

    The gulf between Ryanair and Aer Lingus has been closing for many years, in fact it's now pretty much non-existent and both airlines offer identical products give or take a few minor details. It's how that product is delivered that counts for most passengers and Ryanair already performs better in this category; cheaper, more punctual and more effecient.

    While a minority still say they prefer Aer Lingus and are happy to pay more for a perceived better service, the masses have and will continue to vote with their wallet and go with the best value offering which is usually Ryanair but often Aer Lingus as well.

    After all, if passengers over the last 20 years were happy to accept the removal of Premier Europe, the introduction of buy on board catering, seat selection fees, bag charges, hand luggage limits, hand luggage fees, unbundled fares etc. ...the lack of headrests is unlikely to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    Aer Lingus is also well aware of its limitations on short haul, its network is heavily focused on busy seasonal markets where there's enough demand to profitably sustain both airlines while also operating to traditional hubs that Ryanair so far continues to avoid bar one or two exceptions. This keeps short haul ticking over while long haul rakes in the profits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭VG31


    Are Ryanair really more punctual? In my experience Ryanair flights are hardly ever on time from the afternoon onwards since Covid. Aer Lingus are much better for punctuality, excluding Emerald.

    The main cause of delays seems to be their 25 minute turnarounds which they just can't manage at Dublin and elsewhere. That's why the afternoon/evening flights are often late as the delays accumulate throughout the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    There were a couple of years, around the time Christoph Mueller was in charge, that Aer Lingus outperformed Ryanair at Dublin. There were a few press releases about it at the time but it was soon forgotten, I’m guessing because they fell back down the rankings.

    While Aer Lingus often ranks highly among European carriers, they don’t release monthly punctuality stats anymore while Ryanair continues to do so. According to Ryanair, they had an 86% on time record for June. That’s hard to beat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Don't Ryanair pad out sector times quite a bit though? So they can take off a bit late and still be "on time" ?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    All airlines do that, EI included. You can take off at 0740 for a 7am departure with EI and still arrive on time no bother! It’s something that has to be accounted for!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    Absolutely, a quick look at the published flight times shows both airlines have very similar scheduling tactics.

    LGW-DUB

    FR: 1hr 30mins

    EI: 1hr 20-30mins

    Both are very generous for what is a 50-55 minute flight.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,187 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    In fairness to bother the scheduled departure time is the aim for off blocks, LGW has always had significant taxi que time for the runway. So they have to incorporate that to the block time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭VG31


    Same with LHR. The taxi times can be very long there.

    I find it very hard to believe Ryanair's OTP is 86%. If they count on-time as being less than a hour late maybe! Even then...



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,187 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Rule of thumb, take Ryanair’s own statistics with as much salt as you can



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭x567


    Some interesting points here Kevin. My random musings in response:

    As you say, the 'gulf' between FR and EI is now very small or non-existent by most measures on short-haul flights, but I think EI have a crew advantage - they are still blessed with having some of the best cabin crew and ground staff around; and long may this last. It makes a difference for me.

    I think your comparison points are really about mainstream O&D traffic in which I'd agree that FR are hard to beat for many destinations and passengers. For regular business travellers however their sometimes eccentric timetables can make changes to plans harder to deal with than with EI. For example, the once-daily LGW-SNN service with FR has a different departure time on every single day of the week - in the range of c.9.30am to 9.30pm. EI's flights ex LHR are at consistent times every day.

    The FR/EI comparison might also be different from the perspective of connecting traffic. I'd be interested to know what proportion of each carrier's traffic is O&D and what is transfer pax. I suspect EI's transfer traffic is (or at least should be) much higher, feeding to and from their transatlantic services. This market segment just might be a little more interested in EI's quality offering rather than just cheapest price (although there are many airlines competing for this business). Other stuff like punctuality, connections product/lounge access and ease of interlining (e.g. shared frequent flier benefits) will also count. If T/A drives the profits, connecting traffic must surely add to this.

    I transferred from LGW to LHR earlier today after an early morning long-haul arrival (because the LGW-SNN flight is on the late night shift today) and noticed a prominent BA advert on the way in to Heathrow saying that they directly serve 27(?) cities in the USA and a further 222 via their partner American Airlines. This is EI's gang and they should, in my view, be really maxing out on their links with AA (westbound) and BA to the east. Ryanair have no current answer to this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,588 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When I had to travel a lot more than currently, Ryanair's flight times were the #1 problem with even booking them - as well as the wandering times, many routes are only ever served once a day at one end of the day, e.g. 6am or 9pm departures. Aer Lingus nearly always won on having more sensible flight times, particularly for business travel.

    Crap onboard service, crap customer care, harsh rules and obedience to same, and almost vindictive post-flight care if there were issues were the others.

    The onboard service is now in an odd situation of the staff often still being crap beyond belief; but the hard product being better - Ryanair have better food, and stock of it to sell you, at pretty much all times, the interiors are no longer blindingly trashy; and Aer Lingus have been inconsistent to worse on seat quality and spacing ever since the ex-Iberia planes turned up, nearly a decade ago.

    The customer care pre- and post- flight is still appalling and their social media thing of ridiculing passengers is now my #1 reason to avoid. The rules stuff was mostly dropped under the "always getting better" era and hasn't come back as far as I can see. I still got told total lies about why a massively delayed flight was delayed - they had no crew, they claimed it was mechanical - but I got my 261 money.

    I also seriously dislike the thing of loading boarding passengers in to stairwells before the inbound has even landed, and I suspect that is going to end in tears/fines when there's a fall/crush and an airfield incursion by injured passengers.

    The passenger outcome of the the race to the bottom that has occurred is negative for everyone except the very, very most price conscious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭dublin12367


    I seen on an aerlingus group on Facebook that somebody had commented EI are due to launch a flight from Manchester to Madagascar next October? Seems very hard to believe? Also it would another plane gone from Dublin if true…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Fun fact, you still can't even check-in online using a passport card! You are required to check-in at the desk in airport if you wish to use a passport card (apologies for being slightly off topic)



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,940 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    I highly doubt that.

    New base, still finding its feet, launching a high risk route into an area never before served by Aer Lingus..........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭dublin12367




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭bartkingcole


    Could it be a wet lease? But even that does not make sense.

    I wonder would a direct flight from Dublin to Barbados with a time allowing feeder flights from the UK and from EU be feasible? Been through Manchester twice connecting to LH flights and never again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    EI don't require a passport for check in save for a few countries which require API, my passport card has certainly worked with EI in the past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭sandbelter



    The Barbadian Tourist Minister was in town just recently trying to promote just that and a year round service from Man as well.

    Source: https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/barbados-tourism-delegation-build-links-with-ireland/

    That said the 1H23 results for EI weren't great, 1H23 operating profit was Euro 40Mil, up from a loss of Euro 83M in 1H22, but will below Euro 78Mil achieved in 1H19. So I would expect EI to continue to be cautious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    That’s largely due to the Q1 loss with the increased seasonality of the business thanks to the slower recovery of business travel versus leisure. The Q2 profit of €121m is up considerably on the €112m from same quarter in 2019. Best margin of the group. On time performance was a poor 63% for the first half, second worst of the group after BA with its abysmal 57%, they really need to find out Iberia’s secret to consistent punctuality.

    Overall I’d say that’s a pretty good performance. As usual the IAG results are very light on details of future plans, BA will get 10 more 787s, IB will get another A350, the group will see 10 more A32N added from 2028 etc.

    Elsewhere Aer Lingus UK had a 64% load factor in May, down on the 72% in April but up considerably on the 56% for the same month last year. May was also the first full month of all A330 ops at the base so there was a huge increase in capacity on JFK to absorb. Not sure how sustainable all A330 ops will be for this base, particularly in the winter but it could simply be a case of them waiting it out until more narrow body capacity is made available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭bartkingcole


    I presume Iberia’s performance is down to the lack of congestion at home airports. Dublin should at this point be performing better with the second runway but Heathrow was always a killer in respect to missing slots or being held on the ground in Dublin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9



    Can't say I would agree with this. Aer Lingus have built schedules around this as discussed. ATC strikes, weather and other operationmal issues such as IT issues would impact Aer Lingus than Iberia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    EI-NSC having some trouble?

    Some very heavy delays yesterday and seems to have spent most of today in Hanger 6.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    It doesn't work for the online check in though. That's what the op was saying. When you check in online they ask for passport number only. If you want to use passport card you have to go to a desk (or possibly a self service kiosk).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    I really can't believe they haven't sorted out the passport card issue yet. Unbelievably inefficient.

    I tried to use it online and it gave an error and then wouldn't allow me put my regular passport details in so I had to spend 35 mins in the check in queue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    I think the press release announcing their half year results sums it up. While the other group carriers reiterate upcoming fleet additions, product enhancements and routes, Aer Lingus can only promote an American football game they sponsor.

    Priorities, at least publicly, seem to be muddled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Tea2


    I was to fly to LHR on NSC on Tuesday (25th) afternoon and they discovered a fault on the plane just as we were boarding. Had to bring us all back in and load us onto a different plane. Overheard them at the gate saying that was the second time NSC has caused problems. Including last night's mess at Heathrow with NSC, and that's three times in a week it has caused problems. I'll be actively avoiding NSC for the next while as I'd rather not deal with a four hour delay like last night...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I am on EI174, and was due to be NSC. Its on stand but they switched our gate and aircraft.

    Would have been nice to get my first NEO flight with EI. My return is scheduled for regular A320.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Nolimits


    I'm looking at booking a trip to Las Vegas, was surprised to see there are no direct flights. Looks like Aer Lingus announced a few years ago that they were going to start but then later changed their mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    EI-NSC currently scheduled for Düsseldorf shortly. Hopefully the day spent in the hanger solved the issue.

    Not unusual to have new aircraft experience teething problems, particularly when put to work on a busy route so quickly!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch




  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Tea2


    Flightradar24 shows what plane will operate what flight the day before and the full route plan for the plane for the day. This means that by about lunchtime you can usually work out which flights are going to run late, hours ahead of any announcement by EI. (It’s not perfect as they will often to a last minute switch when a plane is running late to get back on schedule)

    i typically only fly to LHR on EI Mainline, which is essentially hourly, so if i spot my flight will be NSC, I plan to call and ask to switch to an earlier or later flight (I’m Concierge on EI, so same day flight changes are free).

    fly with EI almost every week, so it’s worth the small effort of my part to do this to minimise the risk of delays. Their on time performance is appalling this year, so scraping out an hour or two every week like this adds up over time. Not sure I’d bother if I wasn’t flying constantly



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,940 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Aer Lingus never ever announced a route to Vegas. So they never changed their mind.

    About 8 years ago, an Indo journalist asked the then CEO about a route to Vegas. He responded with ".....it's certainly an interesting route, and we are looking at all options for new markets...."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,447 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    If you have a passport card you also have a passport. Just register tha passport details on the app and they never question which document you use!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭VG31


    That's why I do and I've never had an issue. They're only really interested in checking that your name matches the boarding pass and that the document hasn't expired.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Yes ... the busiest non served route between Europe and North america, both ways ... It is surprising...

    I'd imagine the risk 0f launching it, 3 or 4 times a week, through their dublin hub , while its a massively popular destination, served by four or five other airports from Europe, maybe 2 or 3 of them being hubs, is so risky, it could sink the IAG group...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    If they can make more money flying an extra rotation to JFK or SFO that’s what they will do. They have buckets of data on Europe to US demand, people thing it’s a lack of ambition but it’s all about maximising profit.

    now you could argue the lack of ambition is not growing faster and adding more planes. Maybe with 5 or so more LH planes, LAS would be the next best option for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    Speaking of more planes, I saw an old fleet plan recently from around 2015-2016 which showed the airline had intended for 12 A321LR by 2022.

    Obviously the pandemic interrupted things but the fact they had no options or at least haven’t been able/allowed to convert some is a shame, they’ve already had to cut back, postpone and juggle some routes due to this long range narrow body shortage. The likes of DUB-YUL/PIT and MAN-BOS could be operating this summer with that original plan.

    Even with the arrival of the A321XLR, by the end of its delivery schedule they’ll only have two more transatlantic narrow bodies than they planned to have in 2022.

    Overall, while there appears to have been route and capacity growth across the network, the fleet has remained at around 50 aircraft for the past ten years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭Gary walsh 32


    Ei dem still in lanzaorte apparently has avionics problems



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭SeeMoreBut


    Is there any reason why you can’t book more than 330 days in advance on ei unlike fr?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,588 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Their booking computer system being over 60 years old is the limiting factor there I believe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Growth will be limited by pre clearance capacity imo.

    They can launch the likes of CLE/PIT etc with a mid day arrival/late afternoon departure but they'd be mad to put those arriving into the morning bank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    It's the departure bank that will have the CBP constraints.

    Other than that you have the usual gate issues in the morning. Will be years before that is sorted



  • Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Shamrockj


    If CBP constraints becomes an issue to growth they could just operate some flights as non CBP and passengers would clear customs in the US



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    They could, but that would be to forfeit one of Dublin's advantages for connecting passengers. There would be potential for confusion too as no doubt some passengers would book, assuming they were getting pre-clearance and then find out too late that they weren't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Shamrockj


    Absolutely it would not be ideal. But if it was between that and not expanding I’m sure they would pick to expand.

    possibly Orlando could be non cbp as it’s more leisure based passengers. It doesn’t seem to bother people too much ex Manchester



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭sherology


    LR/XLR routes to smaller US airports would likely be less prone to stateside CBP delays as one would assume those locations have few international arrivals. CLE/PIT/Hartford etc with ~180 passengers arriving, many US based so less delay again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭moonshy2022


    The last thing parents with kids need after a 9 hr flight is a 60-90 minute wait with exhausted kids waiting to do CBP. I had to do it years ago ex uk and it’s no fun.


    Any of the NEO trips should/could be CBP stateside due to lower pax numbers and arriving potentially in to smaller airports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭x567


    Or move it to Shannon. Plenty of CBP capacity and cheaper parking for the leisure market. (Dons tin hat…!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    They used to do that with afternoon flights as I recall; at one point CBP was only available in the morning hours. I seem to recall it on a MCO trip.

    I agree, though I'd be quite surprised if that bothered Aer Lingus given that they're willing to put up with the confusion caused by EI-EIL/EI-EIK 😀

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭Gary walsh 32


    Looks like duo is stranded in seattle and dem is still stuck in lanzaorte and I also seen ei daa on flight ei494 to faro does it mean they are short and had to fill in for the a320



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