Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Leroy42 · 03-12-2018 1:02pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The referendum is neither here nor there, it was not binding, just advisory. Parliament can ignore it if they decide to.

A question does arise if the UK want to withdraw A50 - can they do it alone, do they need unanimous support to withdraw it from the other 27?

Well, yes, from a purely legal (or is that constitutional?) POV you are correct but TM, the MPs and the media have painted this as the will of the people for so long that whether it is doable or not in terms of legality it certainly isn't in terms of political standing.

The ref have been allowed to be considered as the only voice ever to be listened to, with anybody even attempting to state that it was clear, based on correct information or even should be revisited is shouted down as antidemocratic.

So TM could reverse A50, it would see her lose the PM straight away though.

In terms of not going ahead with something that is damaging, therein lies the problem. Even now, the UK public are being denised the real information. They are still being told that whilst things may be tricky, the great future is worth it.

This falls completely at the feet of TM and the government. They have not only allowed, but actively embraced, the notion that anything that doesn't back your view can simply be dismissed.

Even now, TM is fighting against giving full legal advice to the HoC. If she was more concerned about the UK, rather than getting what she wants through she would be opening this to everyone and letting them all decide with the best info.

funkey_monkey · 03-12-2018 1:15pm

Leaked Commons legal analysis
http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Withdrawal-Agreement-Legal-and-Governance-Aspects.pdf

Source: https://brexitcentral.com/leaked-commons-legal-analysis-brexit-deal-vindicates-trump-contradicts-may-adds-brexiteers-concerns/

Not sure about its validity, but posted anyway!

Zubeneschamali · 03-12-2018 1:20pm

briany wrote: »

What are the chances of organised and persistent political violence on UK streets if no Brexit is to be had?

Zero.

Zubeneschamali · 03-12-2018 1:21pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, yes, from a purely legal (or is that constitutional?) POV you are correct but TM, the MPs and the media have painted this as the will of the people for so long that whether it is doable or not in terms of legality it certainly isn't in terms of political standing.

So what will all the enraged Brexiteers actually do, politically?

Vote for Corbyn? I don't think so. UKIP are entirely useless.

Econ__ · 03-12-2018 1:24pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Zero.

Agree. Threats of violence on the streets is the real project fear.

Laois_Man · 03-12-2018 1:28pm

briany wrote: »

What are the chances of organised and persistent political violence on UK streets if no Brexit is to be had?

You must figure that No Brexit is the outcome Nigel Farage secretly wants because it would enable his party to take so much of the Brexit vote that he could find his party doing an electoral performance similar to the Lib Dems in 2010, and going into coalition government.

UKIP isn't really his party anymore and he has disassociated himself from the party since they started teaming up with the likes of Tommy Robinson!

I think he'll wait to see what happens next year and he'll set up a new party in protest against it unless it is a hard Brexit!

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 1:37pm

briany wrote: »

What are the chances of organised and persistent political violence on UK streets if no Brexit is to be had?

Up to now, I've considered the spectre of violence on the streets of Britain as one of the more valid exaggerations of "project fear" (whether it's forecast by Leavers if the country remains, or Remainers if leaving triggers a period of worse austerity than up to now)

But having seen how quickly a directionless protest in France has degenerated into pure, meaningless vandalism, I'm beginning to change my opinion. While the French have always been somewhat Brexity in their negotiating strategy ("Raise my wages or I'll burn down the factory and put myself out of a job") I don't believe for one minute that the hoodlums who trashed the Arc de Triomphe gift-shop and museum care too hoots about the price of diesel.

It might be just the same kind of feckineejitery that used to infect English football, but it feels like there's something (or someone) else at work in the background; and if that's the case, then I can see how grumbling public discontent arising from a chaotic Brexit could be hijacked by this same "social influencer". I doubt that the strength of feeling amongst Leavers (even if they come across as more radical than Remainers) would be sufficient to bring the general public onto the streets in sufficient number, so I don't think a cancelled Brexit would be exploitable in the same way.

Chips Lovell · 03-12-2018 1:40pm

Mod Note

Hi folks, don't forget the charter rule about posting links and videos:

Please remember that we are not a blog, a news feed nor an announcement forum - if you are not willing to discuss what you post, then please don't post it.

When posting or linking to a video please provide a summary of the content as not everybody has access to video sites or the time to view them.

Long story short, you need to make your own arguments, not just post up other people's.

An Ciarraioch · 03-12-2018 1:41pm

Unlikely NI will have any of the Irish MEPs next year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-citizens-in-north-unlikely-to-have-vote-in-european-elections-1.3717747

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 1:49pm

Tell me how wrote: »

What is your opinion on this?
Do you think we should?

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

VinLieger · 03-12-2018 1:55pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

That's not an article its a letter from a "reader" with very dubious conclusions based of quite a blatant hardcore unionist bias

steddyeddy · 03-12-2018 1:56pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I read an interesting article on Irishnews.com suggesting Ireland should be reunited by rejoining the UK-I wondered if anyone else has read it?

No I haven't. I just have to look to Northern Ireland to see how that would work out. We'd lose out culturally, economically and on the world stage by leaving the EU and jonknv thd sinking ship across the sea.

blanch152 · 03-12-2018 1:57pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Unlikely NI will have any of the Irish MEPs next year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-citizens-in-north-unlikely-to-have-vote-in-european-elections-1.3717747

A bit ironic to see Sinn Fein criticising the lack of representation in Stratsbourg seeing as they are responsible for the lack of representation in Stormont and Westminister.

UsedToWait · 03-12-2018 1:57pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

MrMusician18 · 03-12-2018 1:57pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Unlikely NI will have any of the Irish MEPs next year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-citizens-in-north-unlikely-to-have-vote-in-european-elections-1.3717747

Why should this be a surprise? Of course NI shouldn't have any representation when the UK is no longer a member.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 2:06pm

VinLieger wrote: »

That's not an article its a letter from a "reader" with very dubious conclusions based of quite a blatant hardcore unionist bias

Apologies-I thought it was an article and didn't realise it was a letter.

MrMusician18 · 03-12-2018 2:07pm

UsedToWait wrote: »

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

Is that the same Maurice Fitzgerald that got 30 votes in the 2007 general for Cork South Central?

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 2:10pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't give that nonsense the dignity of a response.

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 2:11pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apologies-I thought it was an article and didn't realise it was a letter.

But did you not realise it was a bit nonsensical?

VinLieger · 03-12-2018 2:14pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But did you not realise it was a bit nonsensical?

Classic example of confirmation bias

Christy42 · 03-12-2018 2:18pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

UsedToWait wrote: »

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

Is that the same Maurice Fitzgerald that got 30 votes in the 2007 general for Cork South Central?

I would not put any money on the name being the author's real name. Possibly grabbed it from somewhere obscure like that but it is just a troll.

farmchoice · 03-12-2018 2:42pm

ollie robbins and steve barclay before the exiting the eu committee now

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/852c6d58-68c4-4b8f-9fd2-6ad62099469b

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 2:53pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Classic example of confirmation bias

More a classic example of a genuine mistake,which I suppose you would never make..

Strazdas · 03-12-2018 3:13pm

bamayang wrote: »

Probably off topic, but could someone recommend a couple of good pro-brexiteers on Twitter to follow? Over time my following has fallen towards remain people and I often wonder am I in an echo chamber of 'lets laugh at those brexiteer ejits'.

Will try have a listen to the podcasts mentioned above, but if anyone could recommend a couple of good twitterers, I would appreciate it.

There doesn't seem to be that many. Leave.EU and Brexit Central are very prominent of course but @Michael_Heaver of Westmonster seems to be one of the best known pro-Brexit tweeters

20silkcut · 03-12-2018 3:45pm

Bernard Jenkin MP was on the news at one complaining that the EU has the temerity to protect its own interest and subject the people of Ireland to tariffs.
The conversion of brrxiteers is an unwinable battle. You can talk to a man with a wooden leg but not a man with a wooden head.
Why are RTE entertaining these freaks??

Brexiteer logic : The EU should not protect its own interests.

McGiver · 03-12-2018 5:19pm

Calina wrote: »

The UK does not do joint sovereignty. No one watching the current events should be naive enough to trust them until devolution for England happens and proportional representation is implemented.
Not a good idea.

That's the thing, English political class don't want to share sovereignty. The UK "constitutional" arrangement, the whole history of the UK in the EU (opt-outs, rebates etc.) including Brexit demonstrate it very clearly.

This is one of reasons why UK doesn't have a federal arrangement.

McGiver · 03-12-2018 5:21pm

briany wrote: »

You must figure that No Brexit is the outcome Nigel Farage secretly wants because it would enable his party to take so much of the Brexit vote that he could find his party doing an electoral performance similar to the Lib Dems in 2010, and going into coalition government.

And possibly life-long EU salary & pension!

VinLieger · 03-12-2018 6:00pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

More a classic example of a genuine mistake,which I suppose you would never make..

A mistake made due to confirmation bias, everyone is guilty of it now and then, i dont know what your problem is.

funkey_monkey · 03-12-2018 6:18pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

The UK will not be able to "unilaterally" quit the EU's customs rules under the Irish backstop, the UK's chief law officer has said.

Wasn't this the whole point of it so that one side could not shirk their responsibilities? I understood there was to be an independent committee set up to arbitrate on when this could happen.

Why are they acting so surprised at this declaration from the AG?

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 6:21pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

Wasn't this the whole point of it so that one side could not shirk their responsibilities? I understood there was to be an independent committee set up to arbitrate on when this could happen.

Why are they acting so surprised at this declaration from the AG?

Because rhyme and reason left the building a long time ago. They're trying to whip up the impression of HMG 'hiding' how bad a deal it is, and that the full text of legal advice will be this incredibly significant rallying cry moment for Brexit.

You are completely correct: this was known.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 6:23pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

It will the irony of all ironies that a united Ireland may come about in bringing the Republic back into the United Kingdom and ending partition that way, and not by the Republic annexing Northern Ireland?

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 6:40pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 6:49pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

:eek: Why?

- The Republic is a stable prosperous nation with significant global influence;
- Britain is a political mess with no idea of where it is in the world, and with a proven record of the English trampling over the best interests of the other constituent nations of the UK;
- NI is a basket case, with no effective governance.

What possible advantage would there be to the RoI in sacrificing it's freedom in favour of "joint control" ...?

First Up · 03-12-2018 6:53pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

It will the irony of all ironies that a united Ireland may come about in bringing the Republic back into the United Kingdom and ending partition that way, and not by the Republic annexing Northern Ireland?

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

I really hope not. We have more than enough to do to re-calibrate our trade and trade infrastructure to reduce the UK's role, as well as adjust our diplomatic strategies to increase connections in Europe.

That will keep us busy enough without having to waste resources trying to cajole, humour or placate a million disaffected unionists intent on civil disobedience and the rest.

Leave them to it.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 7:01pm

VinLieger wrote: »

A mistake made due to confirmation bias, everyone is guilty of it now and then, i dont know what your problem is.

I don't have a problem although the assumption i have an entrenched desire for Ireland to rejoin the UK is incorrect and it would be absurd to suggest that on this forum.

Larbre34 · 03-12-2018 7:03pm

'GORDON'S ALIVE!'

Geoffrey Cox

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 7:04pm

First Up wrote: »

... trying to cajole, humour or placate a million disaffected unionists ...

They won't be disaffected if they've voted for reunification!

However, for RobMc59's benefit, perhaps this demonstrates that for us in the Republic, re-unification with (or "annexation of") Northern Ireland is really not that big a deal. In the GFA referendum, 94.4% of RoI voters decided that it was better to scrap the RoI's claim on the Six Counties in favour of the lasting peace promised by the GFA. Peace that was suddenly threatened by the English voting to leave the EU.

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 7:06pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

Thank you for posting the link you were referring to in an earlier post. As other have pointed out the arguments made in that letter doesn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny as the person would be biased as the referrals to Ireland as a failed state I believe betrays the opinion of the author.

As for unifying again with the UK, what benefits would there be for the united "country" under control of both Ireland and the UK? The only advantage will be to sort out Northern Ireland and the border. I doubt joining the UK where they would have the upper hand as they will be the bigger partner is any interest of any Irish person. It would be the EU/UK negotiations where we would be the UK in the negotiations.

joe40 · 03-12-2018 7:14pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

The UK will not be able to "unilaterally" quit the EU's customs rules under the Irish backstop, the UK's chief law officer has said.

Wasn't this the whole point of it so that one side could not shirk their responsibilities? I understood there was to be an independent committee set up to arbitrate on when this could happen.

Why are they acting so surprised at this declaration from the AG?

Exactly. In other news the religious persuasion of the pope is now known,and the defecation habits of bears have been revealed!!

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 7:17pm

The Attorney General is answering questions now on the legal advice he gave to the government on the WA. The House of Commons want the legal advice to be released in full to them before they vote on whether to accept the deal that Mrs May has negotiated.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5ed35e84-a80d-4e22-a69f-2be5ab920147

The main takeaway seems to be that they will not release the advice as he feels it will be against the national interest to release it. One has to wonder why as the argument for not releasing reports and advice on Brexit that was deemed sensitive is that it would affect the UK's negotiating position. But the negotiations has now ended so what public interest is there for his legal advice not to be released?

I would suspect that the advice would not support voting for the deal otherwise they would have released it, so what are they hiding?

funkey_monkey · 03-12-2018 7:59pm

The main takeaway seems to be that they will not release the advice as he feels it will be against the national interest to release it.

That's one man with a lot of power.

I would suspect that the advice would not support voting for the deal otherwise they would have released it, so what are they hiding?

That would be a very dodgy reason for refusing to release.

As the AG is a member of the Tory party, which taints his impartiality, can this information be forcefully released to parliament.

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 8:15pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

That's one man with a lot of power.

That would be a very dodgy reason for refusing to release.

As the AG is a member of the Tory party, which taints his impartiality, can this information be forcefully released to parliament.

There was a resolution passed by the House of Commons that the advice needs to be released to MPs. The speaker of the house will make a determination whether contempt of parliament proceedings will go ahead but seeing that the government voted against the motion when it was brought up by Labour they surely are in contempt of parliament now.

https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1069652734129946626

I have no idea though what the future steps will be from here, but I would assume that with parliament being sovereign that the legal advice will be released eventually. The only question I guess would be will it be before the vote on the deal or after.

BonnieSituation · 03-12-2018 8:18pm

blanch152 wrote: »

A bit ironic to see Sinn Fein criticising the lack of representation in Stratsbourg seeing as they are responsible for the lack of representation in Stormont and Westminister.

Now now.

Do we have to repeat this again blanch?

Sinn Féin ARE representing their constituents in Westminster as they were voted for on the basis that they would be abstentionist.

If they were to take their seats they would in fact going against those wishes and NOT representing their constituents.

---

The assembly is not sitting as the DUP pulled out of a deal at the last minute. The current impasse has nothing to do with SF.

---

I look forward to repeating this again in a fortnight.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 8:18pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

:eek: Why?

- The Republic is a stable prosperous nation with significant global influence;
- Britain is a political mess with no idea of where it is in the world, and with a proven record of the English trampling over the best interests of the other constituent nations of the UK;
- NI is a basket case, with no effective governance.

What possible advantage would there be to the RoI in sacrificing it's freedom in favour of "joint control" ...?

I`ve seen the progress Ireland has made in the time I`ve been going there on a regular basis since the early 80`s, it`s amazing and it is indeed a stable prosperous nation now.
Although currently in turmoil over brexit the UK is hardly on skid row (currently anyway!)and its standard of living compares favourably against other countries.I was under the impression most people in the Republic wanted a UI.I`ve also seen posts bizarrely suggesting the UK should pay for this to soften the loss of NHS and other benefits which would no longer be available to former NI residents. That is unlikely to happen.I personally voted to remain in the EU but if the worst happens and there was to be a no deal brexit a jointly administered UI would be an option imo .Sometimes you`ve got to put your hand in your pocket and pay for what you want.

steddyeddy · 03-12-2018 8:27pm

Theresa Villiers went on Sky News yesterday to say that:

"There is no reason why we have to change our border arrangements in the event of a Brexit, because they've been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state."

Twitter was on hand to contradict her of course. This woman was secretary of state for 4 years.

https://twitter.com/newswardie/status/1069316515831390208

Thargor · 03-12-2018 8:28pm

Enzokk wrote: »

The Attorney General is answering questions now on the legal advice he gave to the government on the WA. The House of Commons want the legal advice to be released in full to them before they vote on whether to accept the deal that Mrs May has negotiated.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5ed35e84-a80d-4e22-a69f-2be5ab920147

The main takeaway seems to be that they will not release the advice as he feels it will be against the national interest to release it. One has to wonder why as the argument for not releasing reports and advice on Brexit that was deemed sensitive is that it would affect the UK's negotiating position. But the negotiations has now ended so what public interest is there for his legal advice not to be released?

I would suspect that the advice would not support voting for the deal otherwise they would have released it, so what are they hiding?

Watching him was pure cringe, a grown man acting like a cartoon character or something from Blackadder, so much of their political class is made up of repulsive individuals...

Sam Russell · 03-12-2018 8:29pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve seen the progress Ireland has made in the time I`ve been going there on a regular basis since the early 80`s, it`s amazing and it is indeed a stable prosperous nation now.
Although currently in turmoil over brexit the UK is hardly on skid row (currently anyway!)and its standard of living compares favourably against other countries.I was under the impression most people in the Republic wanted a UI.I`ve also seen posts bizarrely suggesting the UK should pay for this to soften the loss of NHS and other benefits which would no longer be available to former NI residents. That is unlikely to happen.I personally voted to remain in the EU but if the worst happens and there was to be a no deal brexit a jointly administered UI would be an option imo .Sometimes you`ve got to put your hand in your pocket and pay for what you want.

The UK currently put their hand in their pocket for NI to the tune of £12 billion a year. They voted to leave the EU because they were contributing £9.5 billion a year. They have agreed to pay £39 billion to the EU because they are leaving.

Do you not think they might be prepared to pay £39 billion to get rid of the heavy drain on the exchequer that NI is?

Do you not think we would be reluctant to acquire such a drain on our finances as a nation, and that we might expect a transition agreement that might make it possible for us to absorb NI?

NI has the smell of a poisoned chalice, we should not be forced to pay for the privilege of drinking from it .

EdgeCase · 03-12-2018 8:37pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve also seen posts bizarrely suggesting the UK should pay for this to soften the loss of NHS and other benefits which would no longer be available to former NI residents. That is unlikely to happen.

Considering that Irish public health expenditure is actually signficantly higher than the UK on a €/capita basis and when you add in private spending too it's a lot higher, I don't see why there would be any need. The issues with the HSE and healthcare in the Republic of Ireland are entirely organisational and due to the legacy of not having created a single-tier system.

Effectively, the HSE is what the UK system would have looked like if it hadn't been transformed into the NHS by the Beveridge Report and quite socialist policies under Labour. It's one of the few remaining solidly socialist planks of UK public policy. We continued on with the mix of charitable hospitals, bits of state funding and added voluntary health insurance and have increasingly just pumped more and more public money into the same, largely unaltered, structure. That's why it's full of issues. It morphed into a very heavily publicly funded system, but without structural changes.

Based on what we spend, we should have a healthcare system that's as good as Sweden and a lot better than the UK! It's a topic for another thread, but we really get poor value for money.

Assuming the NI NHS works and would continue to work as-is, it would actually represent a significant cost saving per capita vs rolling out the Republic's chaotic two-tier system.

If anything, we could substantially reduce Irish healthcare costs by just duplicating the NI model in the Republic. The NHS model is just a hell of a lot more efficient at getting bang-for-buck. There's no question about that.

So, financially speaking, NI would actually potentially see MORE money available for the NHS within the Republic's current spend model anyway.

I don't want to derail the thread, but there's an assumption that under a united Ireland that the North would just de facto be switched over to the same systems as the Republic, I would assume the more likely scenario would be a federal setup and the best of both being adopted in both jurisdictions. Some things are done better in the Republic some things are done better in the North. If you combine the two approaches, taking the best of each system, there would be no reductions in service. They might improve in both jurisdictions.

For example: in a UI, the North would automatically benefit from the Republic's FAR more aggressive FDI and business-friendly policies, which would hopefully drive the Northern economy in a way that UK domestic policy hasn't to-date. You'd also have much more appropriate economic and fiscal policies tuned to NI needs, not just generic UK approaches.

Done right, the Northern economy would be transformed and the Republic would benefit from being dragged into reorganising its health services.

The assumption that the north is some kind of dead-weight economic burden does not have to be the case. It would go from being an obscure backwater in the UK to being a major part of Ireland with huge policy priority.

You also get greater economies of scale and all of those things with a country that would be 6.65 million (ROI: 4.784 + NI: 1.875) and probably likely to grow to 10+ million over the coming decades.

But, alas, Northern Ireland politics is still stuck somewhere around 1921. I don't see much more than a crash-out happening now tbh.

Hurrache · 03-12-2018 8:40pm

The AG has also said that anything in an agreement such as workers and citizen rights, environmental issues, standards, tax etc will not be legally enforceable by the EU. I'm sure many a Tory ear pricked up for that.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-12-2018 8:55pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

Option A
The SNP won almost all the seats in Scotland in the previous election.
Even though the electorate knew they'd have no real power in Westminster.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Option B
The further the economies diverge the more likely is reunification.
A Hard Brexit will just accelerate that.

One tipping point is if cuts to the NHS start to make the HSE look attractive.

The UK isn't wining hearts and minds.

In the North an eight of the population was on DLA. (Don't ask) Now they are moving using a for profit company to do assessments to move two thirds of people on to PIP. ie. cutting benefits for the other third. It'll save a few quid but could be the straw that breaks the precious precious union.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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