Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

UsedToWait · 03-12-2018 01:57PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

MrMusician18 · 03-12-2018 01:57PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Unlikely NI will have any of the Irish MEPs next year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-citizens-in-north-unlikely-to-have-vote-in-european-elections-1.3717747

Why should this be a surprise? Of course NI shouldn't have any representation when the UK is no longer a member.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 02:06PM

VinLieger wrote: »

That's not an article its a letter from a "reader" with very dubious conclusions based of quite a blatant hardcore unionist bias

Apologies-I thought it was an article and didn't realise it was a letter.

MrMusician18 · 03-12-2018 02:07PM

UsedToWait wrote: »

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

Is that the same Maurice Fitzgerald that got 30 votes in the 2007 general for Cork South Central?

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 02:10PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't give that nonsense the dignity of a response.

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 02:11PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apologies-I thought it was an article and didn't realise it was a letter.

But did you not realise it was a bit nonsensical?

VinLieger · 03-12-2018 02:14PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But did you not realise it was a bit nonsensical?

Classic example of confirmation bias

Christy42 · 03-12-2018 02:18PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

UsedToWait wrote: »

Troll.

"The Republic itself is a failed ex-colonial state which has driven out many generations of people to find work in other countries, while looking after an old shop who hand down their jobs to sons and daughters through tight connections in precluded interview processes"

Is that the same Maurice Fitzgerald that got 30 votes in the 2007 general for Cork South Central?

I would not put any money on the name being the author's real name. Possibly grabbed it from somewhere obscure like that but it is just a troll.

farmchoice · 03-12-2018 02:42PM

ollie robbins and steve barclay before the exiting the eu committee now

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/852c6d58-68c4-4b8f-9fd2-6ad62099469b

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 02:53PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Classic example of confirmation bias

More a classic example of a genuine mistake,which I suppose you would never make..

Strazdas · 03-12-2018 03:13PM

bamayang wrote: »

Probably off topic, but could someone recommend a couple of good pro-brexiteers on Twitter to follow? Over time my following has fallen towards remain people and I often wonder am I in an echo chamber of 'lets laugh at those brexiteer ejits'.

Will try have a listen to the podcasts mentioned above, but if anyone could recommend a couple of good twitterers, I would appreciate it.

There doesn't seem to be that many. Leave.EU and Brexit Central are very prominent of course but @Michael_Heaver of Westmonster seems to be one of the best known pro-Brexit tweeters

20silkcut · 03-12-2018 03:45PM

Bernard Jenkin MP was on the news at one complaining that the EU has the temerity to protect its own interest and subject the people of Ireland to tariffs.
The conversion of brrxiteers is an unwinable battle. You can talk to a man with a wooden leg but not a man with a wooden head.
Why are RTE entertaining these freaks??

Brexiteer logic : The EU should not protect its own interests.

McGiver · 03-12-2018 05:19PM

Calina wrote: »

The UK does not do joint sovereignty. No one watching the current events should be naive enough to trust them until devolution for England happens and proportional representation is implemented.
Not a good idea.

That's the thing, English political class don't want to share sovereignty. The UK "constitutional" arrangement, the whole history of the UK in the EU (opt-outs, rebates etc.) including Brexit demonstrate it very clearly.

This is one of reasons why UK doesn't have a federal arrangement.

McGiver · 03-12-2018 05:21PM

briany wrote: »

You must figure that No Brexit is the outcome Nigel Farage secretly wants because it would enable his party to take so much of the Brexit vote that he could find his party doing an electoral performance similar to the Lib Dems in 2010, and going into coalition government.

And possibly life-long EU salary & pension!

VinLieger · 03-12-2018 06:00PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

More a classic example of a genuine mistake,which I suppose you would never make..

A mistake made due to confirmation bias, everyone is guilty of it now and then, i dont know what your problem is.

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2018 06:21PM

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

Wasn't this the whole point of it so that one side could not shirk their responsibilities? I understood there was to be an independent committee set up to arbitrate on when this could happen.

Why are they acting so surprised at this declaration from the AG?

Because rhyme and reason left the building a long time ago. They're trying to whip up the impression of HMG 'hiding' how bad a deal it is, and that the full text of legal advice will be this incredibly significant rallying cry moment for Brexit.

You are completely correct: this was known.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 06:23PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

It will the irony of all ironies that a united Ireland may come about in bringing the Republic back into the United Kingdom and ending partition that way, and not by the Republic annexing Northern Ireland?

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 06:40PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 06:49PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

:eek: Why?

- The Republic is a stable prosperous nation with significant global influence;
- Britain is a political mess with no idea of where it is in the world, and with a proven record of the English trampling over the best interests of the other constituent nations of the UK;
- NI is a basket case, with no effective governance.

What possible advantage would there be to the RoI in sacrificing it's freedom in favour of "joint control" ...?

First Up · 03-12-2018 06:53PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2017/09/20/news/ireland-should-be-reunited-by-rejoining-the-united-kingdom-1140831/
I hope the link works.(please excuse my limited internet skills!)

It will the irony of all ironies that a united Ireland may come about in bringing the Republic back into the United Kingdom and ending partition that way, and not by the Republic annexing Northern Ireland?

Can you annex part of your territory that has already been annexed by a foreign power?

Whoever the writer is, he hasn't been following the shifting demographics and attitude in NI. As things stand at the moment, with a disorderly Brexit firmly on the horizon, a non-military reunification of Ireland is closer than it's been since 1922.

I really hope not. We have more than enough to do to re-calibrate our trade and trade infrastructure to reduce the UK's role, as well as adjust our diplomatic strategies to increase connections in Europe.

That will keep us busy enough without having to waste resources trying to cajole, humour or placate a million disaffected unionists intent on civil disobedience and the rest.

Leave them to it.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 07:01PM

VinLieger wrote: »

A mistake made due to confirmation bias, everyone is guilty of it now and then, i dont know what your problem is.

I don't have a problem although the assumption i have an entrenched desire for Ireland to rejoin the UK is incorrect and it would be absurd to suggest that on this forum.

Larbre34 · 03-12-2018 07:03PM

'GORDON'S ALIVE!'

Geoffrey Cox

CelticRambler · 03-12-2018 07:04PM

First Up wrote: »

... trying to cajole, humour or placate a million disaffected unionists ...

They won't be disaffected if they've voted for reunification!

However, for RobMc59's benefit, perhaps this demonstrates that for us in the Republic, re-unification with (or "annexation of") Northern Ireland is really not that big a deal. In the GFA referendum, 94.4% of RoI voters decided that it was better to scrap the RoI's claim on the Six Counties in favour of the lasting peace promised by the GFA. Peace that was suddenly threatened by the English voting to leave the EU.

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 07:06PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought it a non starter in this form but the idea of a unified Ireland under the joint control of ireland and the UK is possibly a good idea.

Thank you for posting the link you were referring to in an earlier post. As other have pointed out the arguments made in that letter doesn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny as the person would be biased as the referrals to Ireland as a failed state I believe betrays the opinion of the author.

As for unifying again with the UK, what benefits would there be for the united "country" under control of both Ireland and the UK? The only advantage will be to sort out Northern Ireland and the border. I doubt joining the UK where they would have the upper hand as they will be the bigger partner is any interest of any Irish person. It would be the EU/UK negotiations where we would be the UK in the negotiations.

joe40 · 03-12-2018 07:14PM

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

The UK will not be able to "unilaterally" quit the EU's customs rules under the Irish backstop, the UK's chief law officer has said.

Wasn't this the whole point of it so that one side could not shirk their responsibilities? I understood there was to be an independent committee set up to arbitrate on when this could happen.

Why are they acting so surprised at this declaration from the AG?

Exactly. In other news the religious persuasion of the pope is now known,and the defecation habits of bears have been revealed!!

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 07:17PM

The Attorney General is answering questions now on the legal advice he gave to the government on the WA. The House of Commons want the legal advice to be released in full to them before they vote on whether to accept the deal that Mrs May has negotiated.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5ed35e84-a80d-4e22-a69f-2be5ab920147

The main takeaway seems to be that they will not release the advice as he feels it will be against the national interest to release it. One has to wonder why as the argument for not releasing reports and advice on Brexit that was deemed sensitive is that it would affect the UK's negotiating position. But the negotiations has now ended so what public interest is there for his legal advice not to be released?

I would suspect that the advice would not support voting for the deal otherwise they would have released it, so what are they hiding?

Enzokk · 03-12-2018 08:15PM

funkey_monkey wrote: »

That's one man with a lot of power.

That would be a very dodgy reason for refusing to release.

As the AG is a member of the Tory party, which taints his impartiality, can this information be forcefully released to parliament.

There was a resolution passed by the House of Commons that the advice needs to be released to MPs. The speaker of the house will make a determination whether contempt of parliament proceedings will go ahead but seeing that the government voted against the motion when it was brought up by Labour they surely are in contempt of parliament now.

https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1069652734129946626

I have no idea though what the future steps will be from here, but I would assume that with parliament being sovereign that the legal advice will be released eventually. The only question I guess would be will it be before the vote on the deal or after.

BonnieSituation · 03-12-2018 08:18PM

blanch152 wrote: »

A bit ironic to see Sinn Fein criticising the lack of representation in Stratsbourg seeing as they are responsible for the lack of representation in Stormont and Westminister.

Now now.

Do we have to repeat this again blanch?

Sinn Féin ARE representing their constituents in Westminster as they were voted for on the basis that they would be abstentionist.

If they were to take their seats they would in fact going against those wishes and NOT representing their constituents.

---

The assembly is not sitting as the DUP pulled out of a deal at the last minute. The current impasse has nothing to do with SF.

---

I look forward to repeating this again in a fortnight.

RobMc59 · 03-12-2018 08:18PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

:eek: Why?

- The Republic is a stable prosperous nation with significant global influence;
- Britain is a political mess with no idea of where it is in the world, and with a proven record of the English trampling over the best interests of the other constituent nations of the UK;
- NI is a basket case, with no effective governance.

What possible advantage would there be to the RoI in sacrificing it's freedom in favour of "joint control" ...?

I`ve seen the progress Ireland has made in the time I`ve been going there on a regular basis since the early 80`s, it`s amazing and it is indeed a stable prosperous nation now.
Although currently in turmoil over brexit the UK is hardly on skid row (currently anyway!)and its standard of living compares favourably against other countries.I was under the impression most people in the Republic wanted a UI.I`ve also seen posts bizarrely suggesting the UK should pay for this to soften the loss of NHS and other benefits which would no longer be available to former NI residents. That is unlikely to happen.I personally voted to remain in the EU but if the worst happens and there was to be a no deal brexit a jointly administered UI would be an option imo .Sometimes you`ve got to put your hand in your pocket and pay for what you want.

steddyeddy · 03-12-2018 08:27PM

Theresa Villiers went on Sky News yesterday to say that:

"There is no reason why we have to change our border arrangements in the event of a Brexit, because they've been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state."

Twitter was on hand to contradict her of course. This woman was secretary of state for 4 years.

https://twitter.com/newswardie/status/1069316515831390208

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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