Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

The Corinthian · 14-03-2013 1:18pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

The thing is though, it's ok for women to hit other women for alot of the culture, or at least an open hand slap.

And you can still slap your kids in some countries, like France.

All you're telling us is that it can be culturally acceptable for everyone to hit everyone else, except for men to hit women.

clairefontaine · 14-03-2013 1:21pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

All you're telling us is that it can be culturally acceptable for everyone to hit everyone else, except for men to hit women.

That is kind of how it appears doesn't it?

You might frown on it but when women start hitting each other doesn't everyone get a big smile on their face and cry "cat fight!"

kiddums · 14-03-2013 1:40pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I think most men think it's unthinkanle to hit a woman (which is good) but wouldn't think twice about seeing a man hit another man, or hitting one themselves if they were provoked. I think that's sexist.

Really nobody should hit anybody unless it's self defence, regardless of gender. But I don't think it will change anytime soon. People will always revolt in horror at a man hitting a woman, but think nothing of a brawl between two lads.

I didn't think about it to that extent. I guess that makes me sexist then as if I'm provoked, i'll punch a bloke, but won't hit a woman.
But if I'm provoked I'd lump it in with self defence. I won't just go out hitting people.

clairefontaine wrote: »

That is kind of how it appears doesn't it?

You might frown on it but when women start hitting each other doesn't everyone get a big smile on their face and cry "cat fight!"

I don't. So thats your everyone gone.
I usually try and break it up if I know them. If I don't, I won't as I've been accused of all sorts once I try and stop them. Thankfully theres always been enough people around that means nothing ever happened.

Which actually leads me on to the point of how easy it is for a woman to accuse a man of something like rape and he has to prove his innonce (in society), if a man accuses a woman he has to prove it happened (again in society).

The Corinthian · 14-03-2013 1:55pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

You might frown on it but when women start hitting each other doesn't everyone get a big smile on their face and cry "cat fight!"

Perhaps, but you're seriously veering away from the topic.

kiddums wrote: »

Which actually leads me on to the point of how easy it is for a woman to accuse a man of something like rape and he has to prove his innonce (in society), if a man accuses a woman he has to prove it happened (again in society).

Defence in a rape trial is not as simple as that, a woman's testimony or accusation alone is unlikely to convict a man.

As for a man accusing a woman of rape, well in Ireland that doesn't happen, because legally a woman cannot commit rape.

RainyDay · 14-03-2013 2:30pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

And you can still slap your kids in some countries, like France.

and Ireland.

kiddums · 14-03-2013 2:30pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Perhaps, but you're seriously veering away from the topic.

Defence in a rape trial is not as simple as that, a woman's testimony or accusation alone is unlikely to convict a man.

As for a man accusing a woman of rape, well in Ireland that doesn't happen, because legally a woman cannot commit rape.

I know that in law, I'm talking about in society. Two quite different things in this day and age.
And I think you've just brought another aspect, but I think thats heading off topic for this thread.

kiffer · 14-03-2013 3:13pm

No

Necronos wrote: »

As for the home appliances one,that's actually pretty funny as it perpetuates the stereotype that the woman's place is to deal with household appliances etc,people like that are doing more harm to women than most men could!

Even when sexism is directed at men by women, women are the victim... ?
It perpetuates the stereotype that men are incompetent with regards to house hold issues.

Carlos Orange · 14-03-2013 3:54pm

No

kiffer wrote: »

Even when sexism is directed at men by women, women are the victim... ?

Welcome to the 21st century.

The Corinthian · 14-03-2013 5:29pm

kiddums wrote: »

I know that in law, I'm talking about in society.

You mean trial by mob - no smoke without fire? Sorry, you didn't make it clear.

kiffer wrote: »

Even when sexism is directed at men by women, women are the victim... ?

He has a point. The irony, I find, is many of the residual patriarchal prejudices that remain around women are ignored, or even promoted (e.g. woman as the constant 'victim'), by feminism.

Look at an area like father's rights, or lack thereof. On one side it is based upon the idea that a woman's role is to care for the children, thus shutting men out of the role and giving women an effective monopoly on it. Yet the pressure to adopt this role, because of this prejudice, is also the principle reason why women tend to end up having lower long term salary expectations, as well as less representation in politics and at the boardroom.

Apparently quotas are the answer...

heartseeker · 14-03-2013 5:41pm

I know somebody that works in a financial institution that employs 70% women and he says that the sexist beliefs from women that he has to put up with are ridiculous ie.team leaders openly stating that men can't multitask and expected to do every and all of the most basic of physical tasks like lifting a box. Nearly always its not worth stating the obvious sexism involved because of the backlash from feminist campaigners who rally the troops as such.Machoism isn't right but masculinity is definitely somewhat under attack.If males are expected to do these jobs they should at least get the credit for them :-)

ChunkyLover54 · 16-03-2013 2:29am

donfers wrote: »

I have had the "are you gay?" thing multiple times if i didn't respond to a woman's advances, sometimes they use it as a defense mechanism to justify the "rejection"

Kind of in a similar vein but recently myself and my friend were standing in a busy pub here in Galway chatting and having a drink.

A girl walked up to me and asked me did we know each other as she swore she recognised my face. I said I didn't think so. She insisted she had seen my face before and looked at me expectantly. All I could think of to reply was "thats a possibility". Then she walked off.

Anyhow a short time later we decided to leave. We were crossing this dance-floor type space to get to the door. The girl just happened to be dancing with her friends and when I passed by her she took her drink and threw it in my face. Bear in mind that I did nothing to provoke this - no insults, no dirty looks, no ass-grabbing, nothing.

Afterwards my friend suggested that earlier on when she started chatting to me that maybe she was interested in me and she was pissed off that I didn't respond. Thinking back I thought, perhaps, perhaps not.

Obviously the girl was drunk and unhinged but still, I felt if I ever behaved that way to a women in a bar I would be quickly ejected from the premises. As it was, anyone watching the scene would probably assume that, as the guy, I probably deserved to have a drink thrown in my face.

Three Seasons · 16-03-2013 3:09pm

ChunkyLover54 wrote: »

Kind of in a similar vein but recently myself and my friend were standing in a busy pub here in Galway chatting and having a drink.

A girl walked up to me and asked me did we know each other as she swore she recognised my face. I said I didn't think so. She insisted she had seen my face before and looked at me expectantly. All I could think of to reply was "thats a possibility". Then she walked off.

Anyhow a short time later we decided to leave. We were crossing this dance-floor type space to get to the door. The girl just happened to be dancing with her friends and when I passed by her she took her drink and threw it in my face. Bear in mind that I did nothing to provoke this - no insults, no dirty looks, no ass-grabbing, nothing.

Afterwards my friend suggested that earlier on when she started chatting to me that maybe she was interested in me and she was pissed off that I didn't respond. Thinking back I thought, perhaps, perhaps not.

Obviously the girl was drunk and unhinged but still, I felt if I ever behaved that way to a women in a bar I would be quickly ejected from the premises. As it was, anyone watching the scene would probably assume that, as the guy, I probably deserved to have a drink thrown in my face.

You should have told the bouncers about her behaviour and had her ejected.

getzls · 17-03-2013 6:44am

About woman getting away with touching men.

I was sixteen in my first job. At times you had to use a lift.

There was this woman aged about 25 who anytime i was caught in the lift with would have had my trousers off if i had let her.

The least i got away with was being groped.

Must admit i was too young to appreciate it.:(

A couple of years later i would have done.:D

The Corinthian · 17-03-2013 9:31am

getzls wrote: »

Must admit i was too young to appreciate it.:(

A couple of years later i would have done.:D

You've actually, in those two lines, demonstrated why such sexism actually exits.

Southpark actually did a satire on this topic a few years ago, on the back the infamous Debra Lafave case. As was popularly seen with the Lafave case, the attitude of an attractive female adult teacher having sex with an under-age male student was that somehow he was 'lucky'.

This despite the reason for why sex with minors is illegal; because they are too young to give informed consent to an act that can lead to serious repercussions. Less said about how the media or the courts treat the same thing when the genders are reversed, the better.

Now I'm not blaming you for coming out with this same attitude here, if anything it goes to show the extent to which this prejudice is ingrained in our society - that even the victim of such an act can consider himself (almost) 'lucky' to be (almost) abused.

jaffacakesyum · 17-03-2013 12:22pm

getzls wrote: »

About woman getting away with touching men.

I was sixteen in my first job. At times you had to use a lift.

There was this woman aged about 25 who anytime i was caught in the lift with would have had my trousers off if i had let her.

The least i got away with was being groped.

Must admit i was too young to appreciate it.:(

A couple of years later i would have done.:D

Jesus Christ that's awful

But you're last line kind of shows why female on male sexual assault isn't taken seriously...the problem doesn't come from just women not taking it seriously, it's men with the attitude that they're lucky if someone gropes them :eek:

The Pheasant · 17-03-2013 1:51pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

You've actually, in those two lines, demonstrated why such sexism actually exits.

Southpark actually did a satire on this topic a few years ago, on the back the infamous Debra Lafave case. As was popularly seen with the Lafave case, the attitude of an attractive female adult teacher having sex with an under-age male student was that somehow he was 'lucky'.

This despite the reason for why sex with minors is illegal; because they are too young to give informed consent to an act that can lead to serious repercussions. Less said about how the media or the courts treat the same thing when the genders are reversed, the better.

Now I'm not blaming you for coming out with this same attitude here, if anything it goes to show the extent to which this prejudice is ingrained in our society - that even the victim of such an act can consider himself (almost) 'lucky' to be (almost) abused.

Kyle: [appears at the breakroom entrance] Ex, excuse me? [the officers look, and he walks in] My name is... Brad. And uh I need to report a crime. Anonymously.
Yates: Oh? What's the crime?
Kyle: Well, I attend South Park Elementary, ah-and... w-one of the teachers is having sssex with a student.
Yates: Oh my God! This is terrible! [other officers say other things. Yates and another officer get on bended knee next to Kyle] Ya-you did the right thing telling the police, Brad. Now, who is the teacher? What's his name?
Kyle: Well, it isn't a guy teacher. It's a woman.
Officer 1: A woman.
Kyle: Yeah. She's having sex with a boy. [the officer to his right is taking notes.]
Officer 2: Oh, but, but she's ugly, right?
Kyle: Well no, not really. It's the Kindergerten teacher, Miss Stevenson.
Yates: The blonde?
Kyle: Yeah.
Officer 1: Some young boy is having sex with Miss Stevenson?
Kyle: [firmly] Yes.
Officer 1: Nisssse.
Yates: Nnice.
Kyle: What?! No, you don't understand-
Officer 1: You sure they've had sex?
Kyle: Yeah.
Officer 3: Has she performed oral sex on him?
Kyle: I think so.
Officer 3: ...Nice.
Officer 1: Nisssse.
Officer 3: [whispers] Nisssse.
Yates: So wait, what, what's the crime?
Officer 1: The crime is, she isn't doing it with me. [jabs jokingly at Officer 2. All the officers laugh]
Kyle: Hay! He's totally underage. She's taking advantage of him.
Yates: You're right. We're sorry. This is serious. We need to track this student down and... give him his "Luckiest Boy In America" medal right away. [All the officers laugh harder]
Kyles: [throws his hands up in frustration and leaves] Gargh!

Fromthetrees · 17-03-2013 2:52pm

I know the thread is about personal experiences and I can go on about family law and all that but I'd rather just post this now.

Been catching up on the Channel 4 comedy Peep Show recently.

The two main characters are male. David Mitchell's character wakes up one night to find the woman who he had given his bed to was on top of him having sex with him on the floor. He says to himself 'am I being raped', 'am I going to have an orgasm against my will', 'oh'. The next day he tells the other main character about this and he's told, 'ha, ha, you got raped'.

In another episode the other main character who is Robert Webb gets a job as an assistant to a male music producer. He found out later on that this job also entailed giving sexual favors to his new boss. He doesn't want to preform sex acts on his new boss but does anyway because the money is good.

I think the programme is hilarious and I really enjoy it but I'm just highlighting these two happenings in the show because if the two main characters had been female doing this I don't think it would have ever even made it to air. If it had it certainly wouldn't have been considered comedy and it could well have led to national protest.

The Pheasant · 17-03-2013 3:38pm

Peep show is brilliant, I know this completely OT but I just need to say how much I love David Mitchell and his patented brand of angry logic

GalwayGuy2 · 17-03-2013 4:01pm

I think peep show was trying to highlight that a litte:P

getzls · 17-03-2013 10:54pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Jesus Christ that's awful But you're last line kind of shows why female on male sexual assault isn't taken seriously...the problem doesn't come from just women not taking it seriously, it's men with the attitude that they're lucky if someone gropes them :eek:

Take the points.

But this was near 40 years ago and things have changed these days.

Galwayguy35 · 18-03-2013 1:13am

Three Seasons wrote: »

You should have told the bouncers about her behaviour and had her ejected.

It would have been a waste of time, I had a drink i had just bought stolen from me by a girl and when I went after her to get it back first of all I had 4 lads ready to batter me 6 ways from sunday and when the bouncers came they just didn't want to know.
I was told to leave quietly or else I would be going out the hard way.

menapyan · 18-03-2013 1:48am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It would have been a waste of time, I had a drink i had just bought stolen from me by a girl and when I went after her to get it back first of all I had 4 lads ready to batter me 6 ways from sunday and when the bouncers came they just didn't want to know.
I was told to leave quietly or else I would be going out the hard way.

was in a club recently and saw some woman being manhandled out the exit by the bouncers, it was a fine sight to see.

Wompa1 · 19-03-2013 2:39pm

I got my junk grabbed in the line for a nightclub in plain view of the bouncers. Apparently it was a laughing matter.

I worked in a place in which there was heavy boxes up on a canopy, only men were asked to go up and take them down.

Any clogged toilet was there for a guy to unclog, never a girl.

When going to school, only the guys got the sh!t kicked out of them by the principal.

When in secondary school, I was doing Home Economics (forced to do it by the school!!) I had no real interest, didn't enjoy cooking. We had to pick a dish to prepare for our Junior Cert exam out of a hat. I picked the easiest one which was Fruit Salad. The female teacher took it off me and told me that men do not have a sense of decoration and made me pick again....I got Salmon for the next one...I hate fish. I had to review my dish afterwards and wrote about the above. Didn't do so well!!!

When in Secondary School the principal got all boys out of the classes and forced us to clean the corridors and locker areas.

My sister has been in multiple car accidents and can still get cheaper insurance than me! I have not been in any car accidents.

If there's ever a rustling in the night or a noise, it's always the guy who has to go check, as though bullets and knives don't hurt us.

clairefontaine · 19-03-2013 2:48pm

I was sent to a Catholic school that had just recently allowed girls in. This was back in the stone age.

At first, the priests were still hitting the boys. They would grab them and throw them up against the walls and hit them.

The girls were never disciplined in this way because they did not know what to do with us, so we just watched this.

Soon enough though, they figured they can't hit the boys and not the girls. Luckily they brought equality in the right direction, and instead of deciding to grab the girls and throw them up against the walls too, they stopped hitting the boys and completely revises their disciplinary tactics so that no one got hit.

Taltos · 19-03-2013 5:18pm

Just two incidences with me.

One job was at a female colleague's desk when out of nowhere she grabs my ass for a squeeze in full view of the rest of her team. Tore strips out of her and asked her if she wanted to follow me to HR to continue her antics - enough said.

Other was just a few years ago, Director in the US touched me inappropriately during training. Spotted by one of her team. This girl and her colleague (a manager) came to me afterwards laughing their heads off - told them how unimpressed I was to get the response "sure if she was good looking you wouldn't have minded"... Didn't say anything to the director just had to make sure there was always furniture between us but started being brutally blunt with her in a way only I can...

DUBACC · 19-03-2013 5:29pm

ncmc wrote: »

On a much less serious note, does it bother the men here when ads say things like ‘mum’s favourite multi vitamin for their kids’ or ‘mum’s prefer this kind of yoghurt’. As a woman, it drives me mad. It’s such sexism and really is such an outdated mode of advertising when you consider in modern families and especially since the recession, it’s very often the father doing the bulk of the child minding.

Yes absolutely - quite a growing number of ads on TV portray either that situation or, and this is one of my pet hates, the fact that the man in any scenario is a bumbling idiot who cant work a washing machine for example or do any basic task. Amazing how the gender bashing has got steadily worse over the years yet hardly anything is said.

The other thing that annoys me - and is mentioned above in relation to helping or even being around kids - is the constant portrayal of all men to be paedophiles. It has got into everyone's psyche now at this stage, so much so that i actually leave the changing room in the gym/pool when a kid walks in. It's shocking!

A Neurotic · 21-03-2013 4:19pm

This may be slightly OT, but something that I had an argument about with a few mates springs to mind.

While travelling through a town on a bus, I saw a wall mural and a sign saying "WOMEN AND CHILDREN SAY NO TO SEXUAL ABUSE".

It struck me as an odd thing to say. To me it seemed to imply women and children were banding together to fight off men, the perpetrators of sexual abuse. I thought a more reasonable slogan would have been something like "THE PEOPLE OF [TOWN] SAY NO TO SEXUAL ABUSE".

I accept that the majority of sexual abusers are men, but of course the vast minority of men are sexual abusers.

My friends thought I was being overly PC, and to a certain extent I see their point, but it still bothered me. Why single out men as a group *not* saying no to sexual abuse?

GalwayGuy2 · 21-03-2013 6:36pm

@A Neuratic

It's a bit strange. Surely every-bodies against sexual abuse :S

Was it spray painted on? Like was it by the Town's administration, or just some random group of people? I know, hard to tell when your driving through:P

The Corinthian · 21-03-2013 7:19pm

This demonization (or pedoization) of men is par for the course. To begin with Women and children are portrayed as the only victims. For example, according to the Turn Off the Red Light campaign against prostitution's home page:

"Women and children are exploited in Ireland’s sex industry. Some have been trafficked into Ireland in order to be made work in the sex industry.

Very few women choose to willingly engage in prostitution. Most who are involved have had very few real choices."

This despite the number of male prostitutes in the sex industry. You'll note that on that page, while women are repeatedly cited as victims, the only mention of men is as the clients of prostitutes - the perpetrators.

Meanwhile, returning to the specific area of child abuse, where abuse is perpetrated by a woman, the crime is inevitably toned down. For example, according to the Canadian Press:

"The affair ran from January to June 2005 after the boy made Internet advances. "It was her daughter's boyfriend," prosecutor Carmen Rioux said later. "She stole her boyfriend and made him her lover. They were totally involved sexually.

"Fortunately, some people saw them kissing, walking together and holding hands – a woman of 30 and a boy of 12. They called youth protection.""

Note the emboldened parts. At no point is it suggested that she abused the boy, but just had sex. But worse of all, they had an 'affair', a relationship, implying that it was consensual even though the whole point of protecting minors is because they cannot give consent. Now feel free to find me an article that claims a 30 year old man had an 'affair' with a 12 year old girl.

All this has essentially left men as the only perpetrators of sexual abuse, despite the fact that 25% of sexual predators overall are female - where it comes to male victims, that figure rises to 40%. And that's just from the abuse cases that are believed - many are not; after all, aren't they just lucky?

Daveysil15 · 21-03-2013 10:42pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

I got my junk grabbed in the line for a nightclub in plain view of the bouncers. Apparently it was a laughing matter.

Same thing happened to me. I also had my shirt ripped off by a group of girls in a club which was also laughed off, even though my shirt was in tatters afterwars. A group of guys doing that to a girl would be no joke.

HeadPig · 22-03-2013 12:41am

I find it interesting the way our conceptions of gender equality are reflected by language.

I've often heard a girl jokingly say of a male friend/boyfriend: "if he ever did that I'd chop his [testicles] off" and everyone has a laugh. Whereas if a man were to say: "if she ever did that I'd chop her [breasts] off" you can imagine the awkward silence followed by accusatory comments.

Threatened violence against men is funny; threatened violence against women is apparently disgusting.

iptba · 22-03-2013 1:05am

HeadPig wrote: »

I find it interesting the way our conceptions of gender equality are reflected by language.

I've often heard a girl jokingly say of a male friend/boyfriend: "if he ever did that I'd chop his [testicles] off" and everyone has a laugh. Whereas if a man were to say: "if she ever did that I'd chop her [breasts] off" you can imagine the awkward silence followed by accusatory comments.

Threatened violence against men is funny; threatened violence against women is apparently disgusting.

And I'm not sure it's just threatening violence. As the story was reported*, when a wife of a well-known US golfer found out about his affairs, she started swinging a golf club at him, he had to run out of the house and try to reverse away, while she swung a club at the vehicle, damaging it. He injured himself crashing into a tree.

It seems there is a sort of acceptance that to some extent such behaviour is somewhat understandable if it's a woman doing it to a man (it would be seen as a major mitigating factor) while there is virtually no acceptance of it being much of a mitigating factor if the genders were reversed (e.g. a man got angry if he found out his wife/partner was having/had an affair).

In general, even getting away from violence, it seems women "punishing" men for what is seen as something they did wrong (e.g. making them sleep on the couch) is seen as more acceptable than men punishing women in some way.

* who knows what actually happened

tsiehta · 22-03-2013 1:32am

HeadPig wrote: »

I find it interesting the way our conceptions of gender equality are reflected by language.

I've often heard a girl jokingly say of a male friend/boyfriend: "if he ever did that I'd chop his [testicles] off" and everyone has a laugh. Whereas if a man were to say: "if she ever did that I'd chop her [breasts] off" you can imagine the awkward silence followed by accusatory comments.

Threatened violence against men is funny; threatened violence against women is apparently disgusting.

Usually, in the case of a woman, it's a rape/sexual violence related joke rather than a purely violent one.

The Corinthian · 22-03-2013 7:35am

tsiehta wrote: »

Usually, in the case of a woman, it's a rape/sexual violence related joke rather than a purely violent one.

Except that such jokes are not considered acceptable, while bizarrely jokes involving female on male violence are.

jaffacakesyum · 22-03-2013 9:03am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Except that such jokes are not considered acceptable, while bizarrely jokes involving female on male violence are.

I must run in awful social circles because jokes about punching women in the ovaries is completely acceptable amongst some of my friends

:pac:

The Corinthian · 22-03-2013 11:45am

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I must run in awful social circles because jokes about punching women in the ovaries is completely acceptable amongst some of my friends :pac:

Politically incorrect or tasteless jokes are always going to be cracked privately amongst people. What differentiates jokes about men or women being attacked is that jokes about punching women in the ovaries cannot be done in public without resulting in immediate and total condemnation, while jokes about a woman cutting off a man's penis appear to still be seen as funny and acceptable by many:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muuFygvXPAM

I really cannot see how you can compare the two with a straight face, TBH.

Playboy · 22-03-2013 12:21pm

No

Not sure if posted before but penile amputations (by wives on husbands) are somewhat of a common problem in Thailand.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/nov/19/improbable-research-thai-women-cut-off-penis

Arawn · 22-03-2013 6:37pm

maybe

The army have sexist entry requirements that mean the women get in easier than males

Arawn · 22-03-2013 6:45pm

maybe

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Same thing happened to me. I also had my shirt ripped off by a group of girls in a club which was also laughed off, even though my shirt was in tatters afterwars. A group of guys doing that to a girl would be no joke.

It once got out in school when I was 16 that I had got my nipples pierced(some guys on a not scool team seen and told people) So naturally a good few girls were curious, asked to see I said no, Come lunch I literally had my jumper and shirt pulled off me by about 6 girls during which 2 teachers male and female just walked by laughing and drinking their coffee. I can guarantee you that if just one guy let alone a group of them did this to a girl guards would of been called

Pawwed Rig · 22-03-2013 6:46pm

Arawn wrote: »

The army have sexist entry requirements that mean the women get in easier than males

So do the civil service

The Corinthian · 22-03-2013 6:48pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So do the civil service

Forgive my ignorance, but how?

iptba · 22-03-2013 6:49pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So do the civil service

Not doubting you but can you give one or more examples of what you are thinking of.

Pawwed Rig · 22-03-2013 6:54pm

2 points
For the entry exam for the civil service there are three tests (apptitude type). The best results get you an interview. One of them is a numerical test. The opinion (rightly or wrongly) is that men are better at Maths. For that reason the numerical test is excluded from the overall result.

Secondly and this is anecdotal from family members who work in CS. If there is say 10 jobs advertised at a particular grade it can be the case where they will only hire women where there is seen to be a lack of women in the relevant grade. So if there are 50 applicants with 10 of them women then they may put all women through for balance.

Edit: btw with regard to the Maths there was evidence that men were better at Maths than women years ago but it seems to have evened out now by the latest studies I have seen

iptba · 22-03-2013 7:01pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Edit: btw with regard to the Maths there was evidence that men were better at Maths than women years ago but it seems to have evened out now by the latest studies I have seen

I don't know which studies you are referring to. I have seen some spin on this e.g. that the percentages of girls doing L. Cert honours maths who get an honour is similar, or even a few percentages higher, than males. However, when one looks at the raw numbers, more boys than girls get honours and in terms of A1s, the difference is bigger again.

A lot of data going back many decades that boys did better than girls in mathematical SATs (used for college entry in the US) and vice versa for verbal tests (girls doing better). Don't believe that has changed but a few years since I looked.

iptba · 22-03-2013 7:04pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

2 points
For the entry exam for the civil service there are three tests (apptitude type). The best results get you an interview. One of them is a numerical test. The opinion (rightly or wrongly) is that men are better at Maths. For that reason the numerical test is excluded from the overall result.

Interesting (although don't fully understand what you are saying).

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Secondly and this is anecdotal from family members who work in CS. If there is say 10 jobs advertised at a particular grade it can be the case where they will only hire women where there is seen to be a lack of women in the relevant grade. So if there are 50 applicants with 10 of them women then they may put all women through for balance.

I have heard now and again all-women shortlists in the civil service being openly discussed in media interviews e.g. by Ministers.

Pawwed Rig · 22-03-2013 7:17pm

iptba wrote: »

Interesting (although don't fully understand what you are saying).

3 tests, one numerical, one comprehension and the final one is decision making. So 300 marks available. The top 10% get interviews.
It was thought men were better at the numerical test so the total result is actually out of 200 marks (comprehension/decision making) and the numerical test is just a pass/fail. This was to give women a better chance of success.

clairefontaine · 22-03-2013 8:11pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

3 tests, one numerical, one comprehension and the final one is decision making. So 300 marks available. The top 10% get interviews.
It was thought men were better at the numerical test so the total result is actually out of 200 marks (comprehension/decision making) and the numerical test is just a pass/fail. This was to give women a better chance of success.

Is this compensation for women of certain generations not allowed to take honours math?

iptba · 22-03-2013 11:08pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

Is this compensation for women of certain generations not allowed to take honours math?

We did aptitude tests in school (4th year) and they didn't require knowledge of a particular maths syllabus. Similarly the mathematical questions that are part of IQ tests don't require knowledge of a particular syllabus.

My guess is that if there is a required amount of knowledge, it would be covered in the ordinary level syllabus at Leaving Cert level. Apart from anything else, only around 15-20% of the total L. Cert cohort having been doing Honours for a few decades.

tsiehta · 22-03-2013 11:50pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Politically incorrect or tasteless jokes are always going to be cracked privately amongst people. What differentiates jokes about men or women being attacked is that jokes about punching women in the ovaries cannot be done in public without resulting in immediate and total condemnation, while jokes about a woman cutting off a man's penis appear to still be seen as funny and acceptable by many:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muuFygvXPAM

I really cannot see how you can compare the two with a straight face, TBH.

Well, originally the point raised was about private conversation, not public jokes. I've heard enough "I'd rape her", "She deserves to be raped" etc. in certain social circles to know that that's not true.

But in any case, jokes about rape and violence against women are quite common on mainstream TV. Daniel Tosh does it quite frequently on his show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BJ6G4IotBQ

You also have Meg on Family Guy, who's entire point on the show is to be constantly verbally and physically abused.

Also, while not jokes, you have the Steubenville case, with a disturbing amount media coverage sympathizing with the rapists, and hardly mentioning the victim, along with plenty of awful, public tweets, facebook messages etc. .

The idea that violence against women is universally condemned in public and never joked about compared to violence against men is just false.

Wompa1 · 23-03-2013 2:19am

tsiehta wrote: »

Well, originally the point raised was about private conversation, not public jokes. I've heard enough "I'd rape her", "She deserves to be raped" etc. in certain social circles to know that that's not true.

But in any case, jokes about rape and violence against women are quite common on mainstream TV. Daniel Tosh does it quite frequently on his show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BJ6G4IotBQ

You also have Meg on Family Guy, who's entire point on the show is to be constantly verbally and physically abused.

Also, while not jokes, you have the Steubenville case, with a disturbing amount media coverage sympathizing with the rapists, and hardly mentioning the victim, along with plenty of awful, public tweets, facebook messages etc. .

The idea that violence against women is universally condemned in public and never joked about compared to violence against men is just false.

That's a little disingenuous. Daniel Tosh does not do it on his show a lot. Also he caused an uproar when he did. It started a debate amongst comedians about whether he crossed the line and the consensus was he clearly spoke in jest. Tosh.O is kind of a sh!tty show, he makes purposely controversial remarks about videos online. It's crappy tv.

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