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Madeleine Mc Cann-A social experiment in Manipulation (mod warning first post)

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Comments

  • #202
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    People / Children are most often killed by family/ friends !

    People / Children most often killed by the last people known to have seen them alive !

    People / Children most often killed by the people that the Police think did it !

    What are to odds on anyone passing all those there probabilities ?

    This may be that One Long Shot but the Odds are very strongly against that !

    What are the odds that they disposed of a body while being photographed and followed by world media and police.


  • #203
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    What are the odds that they disposed of a body while being photographed and followed by world media and police.
    The body was almost certainly got rid of the first night or before that !


  • #204
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    You know something that puzzles me is why criminals who go undetected for years don't kill themselves when they realize that law enforcement is catching up to what they did.

    Maybe they don't fear jail but if I did this McCann murder and 13 years later, the police named me as a prime suspect, I'd overdose on some drugs. Not risking prison.


  • #205
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    yerwanthere123 wrote: »
    With all the conspiracy nonsense these days the original kidnapping theory seems to be the least popular. But I honestly think it's by far the most likely; Madeline McCann was kidnapped in her room whilst the parents dined nearby. The poor initial investigation by the Portuguese police unintentionally destroyed any forensic evidence which greatly hindered any chance of finding her kidnappers.

    Statistically in general thats by far the less likely thing. I dont know enough about this particular case though.

    (And the ineptitude of the police tells us nothing about what happened, that could work either way).


  • #206
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    The body was almost certainly got rid of the first night or before that !

    There is no evidence to suggest she is dead.


  • #207
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    There is no evidence to suggest she is dead.

    The Cadaver dogs behaviour suggest there has been a body in the McCann’s Flat.


  • #208
    Sureitlbegrand
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Sureitlbegrand


    The McCanns must be running low on funds I see a new suspect announced no doubt a new pr drive for money for the search for Maddie


  • #209
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    I’ll never get over them jogging the next morning, it sounds simple but as a parent whose child has been abducted I wouldn’t be out jogging the next morning I’d be searching everywhere assisting police, stuck to my phone. Once I seen that I knew they were guilty in some form or fashion. Gerry is as cold as I’ve ever seen anyone, that hasn’t dropped in all the years in the media. They are surrounded by high power people, everyone in that group had a part to play. It’s finding out the inner circle details and getting one of them to speak. If the Hells Angels and The Mafia can be infiltrated then these can be. Nothing adds up.


  • #210
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    The new suspect changed ownership of the van he was driving in the area to another person a day or two after she disappeared so there might be something to this one...


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  • #211
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Thargor wrote: »
    The new suspect changed ownership of the van he was driving in the area to another person a day or two after she disappeared so there might be something to this one...

    Money for the Mc Canns most likely. I would love nothing better got that girl to be found.


  • #212
    Rockbeast2
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    - double post


  • #213
    Rockbeast2
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    I won't believe a word until that poor girl's remains are recovered.

    This can't be a "new theory" as I have 100% seen before the photo-fit of the "suspect" going around today.

    I remember thinking at the time what a terrible photo-fit it is as it could be either a male or female face.

    If this is "the guy" then he will know where her body is.


  • #214
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sureitlbegrand wrote: »
    The McCanns must be running low on funds I see a new suspect announced no doubt a new pr drive for money for the search for Maddie
    Yep, public funding approval is due this year I think

    Thargor wrote: »
    The new suspect changed ownership of the van he was driving in the area to another person a day or two after she disappeared so there might be something to this one...

    I believe it was the Jag he transferred ownership of not the van, to another German person .


  • #215
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    I’ll never get over them jogging the next morning, it sounds simple but as a parent whose child has been abducted I wouldn’t be out jogging the next morning I’d be searching everywhere assisting police, stuck to my phone. Once I seen that I knew they were guilty in some form or fashion. Gerry is as cold as I’ve ever seen anyone, that hasn’t dropped in all the years in the media. They are surrounded by high power people, everyone in that group had a part to play. It’s finding out the inner circle details and getting one of them to speak. If the Hells Angels and The Mafia can be infiltrated then these can be. Nothing adds up.
    It really is a vert strange case. Pretty soon after the abduction a media Guy ( Clarence Mitchell ) that Worked for Sky arrives to do the McCann’s Media Interactions.

    Who has the Influence to get such a Guy to do that job just like that ! !

    The McCanns behaviour was bizarre.

    Hopefully if it this new suspect there is enough evidence to put an end to this sorry saga once and for all !


  • #216
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    blinding wrote: »
    It really is a vert strange case. Pretty soon after the abduction a media Guy ( Clarence Mitchell ) that Worked for Sky arrives to do the McCann’s Media Interactions.

    Who has the Influence to get such a Guy to do that job just like that ! !

    The McCanns behaviour was bizarre.

    Hopefully if it this new suspect there is enough evidence to put an end to this sorry saga once and for all !

    Amen to that. I always think what do the twins grow up thinking and is that a worry of the Mc Canns, has to be. People are inquisitive by nature and when they are fully grown adults they’ll question all what happened.

    Here’s a link

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1145347/


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  • #217
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    The Cadaver dogs behaviour suggest there has been a body in the McCann’s Flat.

    Talking dogs are not considered evidence.

    Next.


  • #218
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    It really is a vert strange case. Pretty soon after the abduction a media Guy ( Clarence Mitchell ) that Worked for Sky arrives to do the McCann’s Media Interactions.

    Who has the Influence to get such a Guy to do that job just like that ! !

    The McCanns behaviour was bizarre.

    Hopefully if it this new suspect there is enough evidence to put an end to this sorry saga once and for all !

    Why doesn’t someone ask Clarence Mitchell, or is he in on the conspiracy as well?


  • #219
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    FVP3 wrote: »
    Statistically in general thats by far the less likely thing. I dont know enough about this particular case though.

    (And the ineptitude of the police tells us nothing about what happened, that could work either way).

    Evidence not statistics is what you need.

    Statistically it’s also very unlikely that the parents were involved in the disappearance.


  • #220
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    I’ll never get over them jogging the next morning, it sounds simple but as a parent whose child has been abducted I wouldn’t be out jogging the next morning I’d be searching everywhere assisting police, stuck to my phone. Once I seen that I knew they were guilty in some form or fashion. Gerry is as cold as I’ve ever seen anyone, that hasn’t dropped in all the years in the media. They are surrounded by high power people, everyone in that group had a part to play. It’s finding out the inner circle details and getting one of them to speak. If the Hells Angels and The Mafia can be infiltrated then these can be. Nothing adds up.

    So the McCanns and their “inner circle” have been able to do what the mafia hasn’t - by getting a group of friends at a dinner table to maintain a vow of silence for 13 years???


  • #221
    dubstarr
    Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭dubstarr


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    So the McCanns and their “inner circle” have been able to do what the mafia hasn’t - by getting a group of friends at a dinner table to maintain a vow of silence for 13 years???

    Thats what i always said.There is always a weak one.If they did it at least one of the group would have talked.


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  • #222
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    So the McCanns and their “inner circle” have been able to do what the mafia hasn’t - by getting a group of friends at a dinner table to maintain a vow of silence for 13 years???

    Eventually one will speak.


  • #223
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    Talking dogs are not considered evidence.

    Next.
    And yet the Police use Cadaver dogs quite a bit when looking for dead bodies.

    And nobody said that the dogs talk !


  • #224
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    Why doesn’t someone ask Clarence Mitchell, or is he in on the conspiracy as well?
    How many people can produce a Clarence Mitchell to run their Media Interactions ; Just Like That !


  • #225
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    Evidence not statistics is what you need.

    Statistically it’s also very unlikely that the parents were involved in the disappearance.
    Tha statistics state the direct opposite !

    Most people that go missing or killed have that done to them by close family or friends ; In overwhelming Numbers.

    Most People that are killed or go missing have it done to them by the last people known for certain to have seen them last; In this case Kate and Gerry McCann.

    Most people who go missing or killed have this done to them by the people who are very strong suspects of the Police ; Kate and Gerry McCann.

    I have said that the McCanns may well be the unusual exception to all of these rules. I actually hope that they did not do it and I hope who ever did do it is caught and it is all cleared up !

    You, On the Other Hand have decided that the McCann's are innocent and it would not matter what was brought up; You have decided ! ! ! Just as well you are not investigating Crime ! !

    Keep an open mind and investigate all the Suspects and there has been plenty of reason to suspect the McCanns = It does not mean they are Guilty, They may be Innocent !

    Perhaps You Doth Protest Too Much !


  • #226
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    Eventually one will speak.

    Maybe in another 13 years.


  • #227
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    And yet the Police use Cadaver dogs quite a bit when looking for dead bodies.

    And nobody said that the dogs talk !

    and did they find a dead body in this case?


  • #228
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    Tha statistics state the direct opposite !

    Most people that go missing or killed have that done to them by close family or friends ; In overwhelming Numbers.

    Most People that are killed or go missing have it done to them by the last people known for certain to have seen them last; In this case Kate and Gerry McCann.

    Most people who go missing or killed have this done to them by the people who are very strong suspects of the Police ; Kate and Gerry McCann.

    I have said that the McCanns may well be the unusual exception to all of these rules. I actually hope that they did not do it and I hope who ever did do it is caught and it is all cleared up !

    You, On the Other Hand have decided that the McCann's are innocent and it would not matter what was brought up; You have decided ! ! ! Just as well you are not investigating Crime ! !

    Keep an open mind and investigate all the Suspects and there has been plenty of reason to suspect the McCanns = It does not mean they are Guilty, They may be Innocent !

    Perhaps You Doth Protest Too Much !

    I haven’t decided anything - the way most judicial systems work is that you need to prove someone’s guilt not their innocence.
    Evidence not statistics are what is required and there is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest the girl is dead or her parents were involved.

    Statistically more crimes are committed by men and people from poorer socio economic backgrounds and in some countries mostly by people from certain ethnic backgrounds. Should we rely solely on statistics when looking those crimes and require them to prove their innocence rather than their guilt? Considering what is happening in the world right now your comment seems out if touch.

    There are lies, damn lies and there are statistics.


  • #229
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    How many people can produce a Clarence Mitchell to run their Media Interactions ; Just Like That !

    I don’t know, how many? Still don’t understand the relevance or how this makes them a suspect?


  • #230
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    and did they find a dead body in this case?

    Didn't they indicate where the presence of a body had been?


  • #231
    Ann22
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Ann22


    mulbot wrote: »
    Didn't they indicate where the presence of a body had been?

    I've mentioned a Madeleine documentary I watched a few years ago, here a couple of times but it was removed before posting. The host said that a German paedophile would be the eventual scapegoat. I can't remember all the details but when I went into YouTube to watch the doc again in I couldn't find it. When my son said it was on the news that they found the culprit I asked "Was he German". Guaranteed Clarence Mitchell broke the story.


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  • #232
    washman3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    mulbot wrote: »
    Didn't they indicate where the presence of a body had been?

    But for the McCann fans around here, the dogs did'nt indicate the presence of a body in the right place.
    If the dogs had indicated a body presence in the German's camper van or his Jag they would've been hailed extraordinary heroes, and those same people would be calling for the lynching of the German pedo immediately.


  • #233
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    washman3 wrote: »
    But for the McCann fans around here, the dogs did'nt indicate the presence of a body in the right place.
    If the dogs had indicated a body presence in the German's camper van or his Jag they would've been hailed extraordinary heroes, and those same people would be calling for the lynching of the German pedo immediately.


    The dogs repeatedly were called back to areas they didn't alert by the handler until they then did. It was a joke. Who knows why dogs get excited when someone is yelling at them and then gives them treats, trained or not. We don't know why animals do what they do, which is why it's not classed as an exact science.

    The dogs also weren't as successful as people who want to see the McCanns jailed are making out. They were wrong in other cases. There's nothing new being spouted here.


  • #234
    washman3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Babooshka wrote: »
    The dogs repeatedly were called back to areas they didn't alert by the handler until they then did. It was a joke. Who knows why dogs get excited when someone is yelling at them and then gives them treats, trained or not. We don't know why animals do what they do, which is why it's not classed as an exact science.

    The dogs also weren't as successful as people who want to see the McCanns jailed are making out. They were wrong in other cases. There's nothing new being spouted here.


    Regarding these particular dogs, i suggest you check out John Wedger/ Madeline McCann video on Youtube.
    Actually, i advise everybody here to watch it.
    Wedger is a proven,decent honorable man and a former top class P.C. and a person with 'no horse in this race'
    You may quickly change your mind.!!
    These dogs were the top of the charts.


  • #235
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    mulbot wrote: »
    Didn't they indicate where the presence of a body had been?

    No they didn’t.


  • #236
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    washman3 wrote: »
    Regarding these particular dogs, i suggest you check out John Wedger/ Madeline McCann video on Youtube.
    Actually, i advise everybody here to watch it.
    Wedger is a proven,decent honorable man and a former top class P.C. and a person with 'no horse in this race'
    You may quickly change your mind.!!
    These dogs were the top of the charts.

    That means absolutely nothing.

    There are also serious questions about the dogs.


  • #237
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Ann22 wrote: »
    I've mentioned a Madeleine documentary I watched a few years ago, here a couple of times but it was removed before posting. The host said that a German paedophile would be the eventual scapegoat. I can't remember all the details but when I went into YouTube to watch the doc again in I couldn't find it. When my son said it was on the news that they found the culprit I asked "Was he German". Guaranteed Clarence Mitchell broke the story.

    So the German police are in on it?


  • #238
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Posting on a re-opened 5 year old thread? You should all be ****ing ashamed of yourselves.


  • #239
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Posting on a re-opened 5 year old thread? You should all be ****ing ashamed of yourselves.

    The thread was merged and it’s an ongoing case that just had a major announcement.


  • #240
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Ipso wrote: »
    So the German police are in on it?

    Well said. Apparently the German police, MI5, Scotland Yard, Gordon Brown, Portuguese authorities, a table full of dinner guests are all in on it and not one person has come forward in 13 years...

    No matter what facts you put in front of some people they will just dig their heels in and circle back to the same unfounded allegations. You have to wonder what would it take for some people to believe that the parents weren’t involved. Anytime their theories are debunked the shift into another one.


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  • #241
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    I haven’t decided anything - the way most judicial systems work is that you need to prove someone’s guilt not their innocence.
    Evidence not statistics are what is required and there is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest the girl is dead or her parents were involved.

    Statistically more crimes are committed by men and people from poorer socio economic backgrounds and in some countries mostly by people from certain ethnic backgrounds. Should we rely solely on statistics when looking those crimes and require them to prove their innocence rather than their guilt? Considering what is happening in the world right now your comment seems out if touch.

    There are lies, damn lies and there are statistics.
    Any Police force would be foolish to rule out the McCanns from the start.

    The Portuguese Police were vey naive in their dealings with the McCanns at the start and for quite some time.

    I do not say that the McCanns did it but they were / are legitimate suspects !

    If Madeleine is dead / something else, it would be best for all if this German suspect is proved guilty on good evidence.


  • #242
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    Any Police force would be foolish to rule out the McCanns from the start.

    The Portuguese Police were vey naive in their dealings with the McCanns at the start and for quite some time.

    I do not say that the McCanns did it but they were / are legitimate suspects !

    If Madeleine is dead / something else, it would be best for all if this German suspect is proved guilty on good evidence.

    The portuguese police did that and ruled them out as suspects.


  • #243
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    The portuguese police did that and ruled them out as suspects.
    They ruled them in as suspects for a long time !

    Was it after the McCanns took legal action that the Portuguese Police dropped that or was it just Standard Portuguese Police procedure that after not bringing charges that this happens !

    Du you agree that the McCanns were legitimate suspects ?


  • #244
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    They ruled them in as suspects for a long time !

    Was it after the McCanns took legal action that the Portuguese Police dropped that or was it just Standard Portuguese Police procedure that after not bringing charges that this happens !

    Do you agree that the McCanns were legitimate suspects ?

    I agree that they need to be ruled out as suspects which is normal in any investigation but anyone who is capable or tying their own shoes and with a cursory knowledge of the case knows that it is almost impossible for the McCann’s to be responsible for the disappearance.


  • #245
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,689 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    In fairness, whenever harm comes to a child the parents do have to be looked at: just because of statistics - there's really nothing in this case to suggest it, other than that.

    The person in the new investigation fits every single qualification you might expect in a predatory child abductor: a drifter, had a camper van, had a house too, - was in the area, had committed burglary before, has had several charges of child sexual abuse made against him, made a phone call in that very town at exactly the time the child went missing.

    And is currently IN jail for a rape committed in that same area at around that time.

    I'm not saying he's guilty. But clearly something new has come up. If its him, I hope he admits it and says where the child was laid. Its too awful to think of.


  • #246
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    I agree that they need to be ruled out as suspects which is normal in any investigation but anyone who is capable or tying their own shoes and with a cursory knowledge of the case knows that it is almost impossible for the McCann’s to be responsible for the disappearance.
    An awful lot of people disagree with you. You have to keep open that Kate and Gerry McCann may be responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine. It is certainly a possibility.

    The odds would suggest that it is quite a reasonable possibility !


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  • #247
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    An awful lot of people disagree with you. You have to keep open that Kate and Gerry McCann may be responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine. It is certainly a possibility.

    The odds would suggest that it is quite a reasonable possibility !

    It is not even close to a reasonable possibility.

    Do not confuse the truth with the opinion of the majority


  • #248
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    It is not even close to a reasonable possibility.

    Do not confuse the truth with the opinion of the majority
    Of course “ You being the wise one “ know the “ Truth “


    The McCanns quite rightly were serious suspects and they were only dropped as suspects because too much time had passed without charging them and obviously you can not hold somebody up as a suspect indefinitely without charging them.

    The Police because they naively, did not consider the McCann s suspects from the start did some stuff wrong at the start.

    Had the Portuguese Police been more professional from the start there may well have been a different outcome for Kate and Gerry McCann.

    I do not say they are guilty but there is ample reason to suspect them.

    If this new suspect is the culprit, I hope there is clear evidence to end this very unfortunate case !


  • #249
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    Of course “ You being the wise one “ know the “ Truth “


    The McCanns quite rightly were serious suspects and they were only dropped as suspects because too much time had passed without charging them and obviously you can not hold somebody up as a suspect indefinitely without charging them.

    The Police because they naively, did not consider the McCann s suspects from the start did some stuff wrong at the start.

    Had the Portuguese Police been more professional from the start there may well have been a different outcome for Kate and Gerry McCann.

    I do not say they are guilty but there is ample reason to suspect them.

    If this new suspect is the culprit, I hope there is clear evidence to end this very unfortunate case !

    But there is no clear evidence to suspect the McCann’s - that’s the reason they’re not suspects.


  • #250
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Enzo Steep Lecturer wrote: »
    But there is no clear evidence to suspect the McCann’s - that’s the reason they’re not suspects.
    They were suspects so obviously there was grounds to suspect them.


  • #251
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    blinding wrote: »
    They were suspects so obviously there was grounds to suspect them.

    Evidence!


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